What exactly is the "ego"?

Lisa Morales4 said:jademarlin26, if you aren't working on yourself, you're basically just an amoeba at this point
that’s not really a big deal
even an amoeba can become something more 🙂

Self-work isn't just about your own ego; it's about honoring the Absolute that you're actually a part of 🙂
it's all for the sake of Unity
but look, if someone hasn't reached that realization yet—seeing themselves within the Absolute (within Unity)—then they're just stuck focusing inward on themselves
and that's okay too

I am an integral part, a single fragment, of an eternal force
and that force is no illusion

force is energy
and energy is indestructible
you can store it, accumulate it, or manifest it, or you can transfer it

energy is eternal
I was born from the eternal
It's up to me whether I choose to nurture that spark and grow it into a flame
or if I'll just smother it until it's gone

I am The Flame and the Keeper

I am The Keeper

When your ambitions exceed your capacity—specifically your capacity for actual insight—this is the kind of error that occurs.

Lisa Morales4 said:jademarlin26, if you aren't working on yourself, you're basically just an amoeba at this point
that’s not really a big deal
even an amoeba can become something more 🙂

Self-work isn't just about your own ego; it's about honoring the Absolute that you're actually a part of 🙂
it's all for the sake of Unity
but look, if someone hasn't reached that realization yet—seeing themselves within the Absolute (within Unity)—then they're just stuck focusing inward on themselves
and that's okay too

I am an integral part, a single fragment, of an eternal force
and that force is no illusion

force is energy
and energy is indestructible
you can store it, accumulate it, or manifest it, or you can transfer it

energy is eternal
I was born from the eternal
It's up to me whether I choose to nurture that spark and grow it into a flame
or if I'll just smother it until it's gone

I am The Flame and the Keeper

I am The Keeper

Perhaps before you dive even deeper into conceptualization, you might want to study the mechanics of perception. Work on yourself a little.

Lisa Morales4 said:jademarlin26, if you aren't working on yourself, you're basically just an amoeba at this point
that’s not really a big deal
even an amoeba can become something more 🙂

Self-work isn't just about your own ego; it's about honoring the Absolute that you're actually a part of 🙂
it's all for the sake of Unity
but look, if someone hasn't reached that realization yet—seeing themselves within the Absolute (within Unity)—then they're just stuck focusing inward on themselves
and that's okay too

I am an integral part, a single fragment, of an eternal force
and that force is no illusion

force is energy
and energy is indestructible
you can store it, accumulate it, or manifest it, or you can transfer it

energy is eternal
I was born from the eternal
It's up to me whether I choose to nurture that spark and grow it into a flame
or if I'll just smother it until it's gone

I am The Flame and the Keeper

I am The Keeper

Beliefs are usually just a sign that someone has taken advantage of you. Hang in there.

Brian Foster3
jademarlin26

Once we stop trying to micromanage God and instead start looking deep within our own souls to see the potential of what we can actually become—rather than just staring at who we are right now—that’s when we’ll truly find ourselves soaring.

🙂

Lisa Morales4 said:Brian Foster3
jademarlin26

Once we stop trying to micromanage God and instead start looking deep within our own souls to see the potential of what we can actually become—rather than just staring at who we are right now—that’s when we’ll truly find ourselves soaring.

🙂

Ugh, please, I'm nowhere near touching that beard yet. 😍

jademarlin26 said:The general trend in many American schools has been to hunt for some form of an "absolute," which is nothing more than pure metaphysical speculation. If we aren't something subject to change, time, or pain, then people assume there must be an immutable essence—a "true self," a Great I, or a *svabhava*—that remains eternal and absolute.

However...

If everything in existence is in flux, then an unchanging essence cannot exist. One could attempt to shunt this concept into another realm, claiming it exists elsewhere under different laws of consciousness, but that is simply unverified hearsay. People will find comfort in such delusions if they must. If *svabhava* exists, it must belong to an existing entity, meaning it would have to be conditional and dependent on other things. Yet, by definition, *svabhava* is unconditional and absolute; it doesn't depend on anything else, which renders it non-existent.

Based on the logic above regarding organic detachment ("I am not this body") and the dynamics of daily life ("I am not these thoughts"), I see why someone might feel compelled to "work on themselves" for the rest of their lives. Unless this focus is strictly about non-attachment, it places the individual in direct conflict with the world—a perfect recipe for suffering.

The dichotomy between the observer (subject) and the observed (object) is an illusion. Ignorance lies in trying to take sides within that illusion.

So, you're basically saying that this specific way of "working on yourself" is generally bad or at least totally unhelpful as a type of introspection when trying to fix our "negative" traits. (Even though, let's be real, sometimes you need that distinction to make sense of things.)

But isn't this actually the only way we can truly change how we act? I mean, if we're talking about acting purely in the moment based on what's inside us—without some middleman like a psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, doctor, spouse, parent, guru, celebrity, or whatever else gets in the way.

(And I'm not even talking about those clinical psychology methods where they work on specific areas but the "patient" doesn't really get why they're doing it, which usually means the results are pretty weak or just don't last.)

Or maybe I completely misread you. I totally get the vibe of being against overcomplicating things when there's no solid ground to stand on.

Brian Foster3 said:Ugh, please, I'm nowhere near touching that beard yet. 😍

LOL, I actually meant that part as a figure of speech: 'holding onto God by the beard.'

Safe travels 🙂

wearyhawk83 said:So, you're basically saying that this specific way of "working on yourself" is generally bad or at least totally unhelpful as a type of introspection when trying to fix our "negative" traits. (Even though, let's be real, sometimes you need that distinction to make sense of things.)

But isn't this actually the only way we can truly change how we act? I mean, if we're talking about acting purely in the moment based on what's inside us—without some middleman like a psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, doctor, spouse, parent, guru, celebrity, or whatever else gets in the way.

(And I'm not even talking about those clinical psychology methods where they work on specific areas but the "patient" doesn't really get why they're doing it, which usually means the results are pretty weak or just don't last.)

Or maybe I completely misread you. I totally get the vibe of being against overcomplicating things when there's no solid ground to stand on.

You misinterpreted me. 🙂

The ability to create distance and observe one's own thoughts—critical self-reflection, essentially—is the very foundation of self-work and conscious growth. It allows for the shifting of attitudes and the cultivation of healthy relationships.

What I actually criticized is the behavioral pattern found in certain schools of thought. In an attempt to validate a fictional "ultimate reality" or a supposed "True Self," they demand that the individual identify with the observer at the expense of the observed. They justify this dichotomy through "intuitive knowledge" gained during meditation, which, in this instance, is nothing more than pure ideology and nonsense. Simple observation shows that the observer and the observed exist in a state of mutual interdependence. You cannot have one without the other. There is no dichotomy.

To conclude this post, I will offer one final observation. I find the absurdity within spiritual circles fascinating: on one hand, there is the realization of Unity, the pursuit of connection with the One, the interconnectedness of all living things, tolerance, and acceptance. On the other hand, there are ideologically manufactured dichotomies and mindsets that demand people take sides in non-existent conflicts, forcing views based on division. It is interesting how the same "school" pushes both extremes, regardless of tradition (unless, of course, one follows the middle path). Simultaneously, the drive toward the One is undermined by belief systems that push the individual as far away from that Unity as possible.

There you have it. It is quite useful to sit in silence and contemplate why you find yourself preaching Unity while being simultaneously cluttered with labels, categories, divisions, and conflict.

jademarlin26 said:The general trend in many American schools has been to hunt for some form of an "absolute," which is nothing more than pure metaphysical speculation. If we aren't something subject to change, time, or pain, then people assume there must be an immutable essence—a "true self," a Great I, or a *svabhava*—that remains eternal and absolute.

However...

If everything in existence is in flux, then an unchanging essence cannot exist. One could attempt to shunt this concept into another realm, claiming it exists elsewhere under different laws of consciousness, but that is simply unverified hearsay. People will find comfort in such delusions if they must. If *svabhava* exists, it must belong to an existing entity, meaning it would have to be conditional and dependent on other things. Yet, by definition, *svabhava* is unconditional and absolute; it doesn't depend on anything else, which renders it non-existent.

Based on the logic above regarding organic detachment ("I am not this body") and the dynamics of daily life ("I am not these thoughts"), I see why someone might feel compelled to "work on themselves" for the rest of their lives. Unless this focus is strictly about non-attachment, it places the individual in direct conflict with the world—a perfect recipe for suffering.

The dichotomy between the observer (subject) and the observed (object) is an illusion. Ignorance lies in trying to take sides within that illusion.

Hehe, nice one! Out of all the replies in this thread, this is definitely my favorite.😉

jademarlin26 said:You misinterpreted me. 🙂

The ability to create distance and observe one's own thoughts—critical self-reflection, essentially—is the very foundation of self-work and conscious growth. It allows for the shifting of attitudes and the cultivation of healthy relationships.

What I actually criticized is the behavioral pattern found in certain schools of thought. In an attempt to validate a fictional "ultimate reality" or a supposed "True Self," they demand that the individual identify with the observer at the expense of the observed. They justify this dichotomy through "intuitive knowledge" gained during meditation, which, in this instance, is nothing more than pure ideology and nonsense. Simple observation shows that the observer and the observed exist in a state of mutual interdependence. You cannot have one without the other. There is no dichotomy.

To conclude this post, I will offer one final observation. I find the absurdity within spiritual circles fascinating: on one hand, there is the realization of Unity, the pursuit of connection with the One, the interconnectedness of all living things, tolerance, and acceptance. On the other hand, there are ideologically manufactured dichotomies and mindsets that demand people take sides in non-existent conflicts, forcing views based on division. It is interesting how the same "school" pushes both extremes, regardless of tradition (unless, of course, one follows the middle path). Simultaneously, the drive toward the One is undermined by belief systems that push the individual as far away from that Unity as possible.

There you have it. It is quite useful to sit in silence and contemplate why you find yourself preaching Unity while being simultaneously cluttered with labels, categories, divisions, and conflict.

Sometimes you can be a little too blunt, you know? If someone isn't totally tuned in to what you're doing, they might miss the point entirely. You end up sending the wrong signal, or worse, all those heavy, meaningful words just fall flat because they don't actually "land." At least, that’s definitely what happened to me!

Let me wrap this whole thing up with one final observation. Honestly, I’m just fascinated by the sheer absurdity you see in the spiritual world. It’s wild. On one hand, you have people talking about realizing Unity, striving to connect with the One depending on their tradition, preaching how everything alive is interconnected, and pushing for tolerance and acceptance. But then, on the flip side, you’ve got these totally manufactured ideological divides—groups of people demanding you pick a side in conflicts that don't even exist, forcing opinions based on nothing but division. What’s really interesting is that the exact same "school of thought" pushes both extremes, regardless of which tradition they claim to follow. The only exceptions are those rare folks actually walking the middle path. It’s crazy to watch: at the same time people are reaching for Unity, they're also using belief systems that push the individual as far away from the One as possible!

Do you think true authenticity—and staying away from all those labels—is actually the secret sauce? I’m talking about acting in a way where any "labels" we use are just names on a page, rather than things that actually drive a wedge between people's core values. It’s all about making sure our actions don't create more division than just the words themselves!
Look, let’s be real—our brains are hardwired to slap a label or a nickname on everything we see. It's just how we're built! But honestly, things get messy fast when we start making moves that hurt ourselves or someone else just because we're trying to be all unique and colorful.

There you go. Honestly, nothing beats just sitting out in the woods and getting lost in thought—especially when you catch yourself mid-shave. Unity! And at the same time, you’re just totally overwhelmed by all the drawers, categories, divisions, and constant conflicts!

Look, categories and labels aren't inherently bad—they’re actually pretty necessary for making sense of things. They only become a problem when people start using them to judge someone's worth, like saying, "Oh, he belongs in this group, so he's less important than us." That's where you lose the plot.

Does this actually hold water?

Hey Privat, do you ever find yourself deep in thought about Unity or something like that? 😎

wearyhawk83 said:Sometimes you can be a little too blunt, you know? If someone isn't totally tuned in to what you're doing, they might miss the point entirely. You end up sending the wrong signal, or worse, all those heavy, meaningful words just fall flat because they don't actually "land." At least, that’s definitely what happened to me!

Let me wrap this whole thing up with one final observation. Honestly, I’m just fascinated by the sheer absurdity you see in the spiritual world. It’s wild. On one hand, you have people talking about realizing Unity, striving to connect with the One depending on their tradition, preaching how everything alive is interconnected, and pushing for tolerance and acceptance. But then, on the flip side, you’ve got these totally manufactured ideological divides—groups of people demanding you pick a side in conflicts that don't even exist, forcing opinions based on nothing but division. What’s really interesting is that the exact same "school of thought" pushes both extremes, regardless of which tradition they claim to follow. The only exceptions are those rare folks actually walking the middle path. It’s crazy to watch: at the same time people are reaching for Unity, they're also using belief systems that push the individual as far away from the One as possible!

Do you think true authenticity—and staying away from all those labels—is actually the secret sauce? I’m talking about acting in a way where any "labels" we use are just names on a page, rather than things that actually drive a wedge between people's core values. It’s all about making sure our actions don't create more division than just the words themselves!
Look, let’s be real—our brains are hardwired to slap a label or a nickname on everything we see. It's just how we're built! But honestly, things get messy fast when we start making moves that hurt ourselves or someone else just because we're trying to be all unique and colorful.

There you go. Honestly, nothing beats just sitting out in the woods and getting lost in thought—especially when you catch yourself mid-shave. Unity! And at the same time, you’re just totally overwhelmed by all the drawers, categories, divisions, and constant conflicts!

Look, categories and labels aren't inherently bad—they’re actually pretty necessary for making sense of things. They only become a problem when people start using them to judge someone's worth, like saying, "Oh, he belongs in this group, so he's less important than us." That's where you lose the plot.

Does this actually hold water?

Hey Privat, do you ever find yourself deep in thought about Unity or something like that? 😎

So, are you the one who isn't "fully informed"? Why are you speaking in the third person?
If everything I wrote is worthless, then the message was successfully delivered.

wearyhawk83 said:Sometimes you can be a little too blunt, you know? If someone isn't totally tuned in to what you're doing, they might miss the point entirely. You end up sending the wrong signal, or worse, all those heavy, meaningful words just fall flat because they don't actually "land." At least, that’s definitely what happened to me!

Let me wrap this whole thing up with one final observation. Honestly, I’m just fascinated by the sheer absurdity you see in the spiritual world. It’s wild. On one hand, you have people talking about realizing Unity, striving to connect with the One depending on their tradition, preaching how everything alive is interconnected, and pushing for tolerance and acceptance. But then, on the flip side, you’ve got these totally manufactured ideological divides—groups of people demanding you pick a side in conflicts that don't even exist, forcing opinions based on nothing but division. What’s really interesting is that the exact same "school of thought" pushes both extremes, regardless of which tradition they claim to follow. The only exceptions are those rare folks actually walking the middle path. It’s crazy to watch: at the same time people are reaching for Unity, they're also using belief systems that push the individual as far away from the One as possible!

Do you think true authenticity—and staying away from all those labels—is actually the secret sauce? I’m talking about acting in a way where any "labels" we use are just names on a page, rather than things that actually drive a wedge between people's core values. It’s all about making sure our actions don't create more division than just the words themselves!
Look, let’s be real—our brains are hardwired to slap a label or a nickname on everything we see. It's just how we're built! But honestly, things get messy fast when we start making moves that hurt ourselves or someone else just because we're trying to be all unique and colorful.

There you go. Honestly, nothing beats just sitting out in the woods and getting lost in thought—especially when you catch yourself mid-shave. Unity! And at the same time, you’re just totally overwhelmed by all the drawers, categories, divisions, and constant conflicts!

Look, categories and labels aren't inherently bad—they’re actually pretty necessary for making sense of things. They only become a problem when people start using them to judge someone's worth, like saying, "Oh, he belongs in this group, so he's less important than us." That's where you lose the plot.

Does this actually hold water?

Hey Privat, do you ever find yourself deep in thought about Unity or something like that? 😎

I don't follow. The key to what?

wearyhawk83 said:Sometimes you can be a little too blunt, you know? If someone isn't totally tuned in to what you're doing, they might miss the point entirely. You end up sending the wrong signal, or worse, all those heavy, meaningful words just fall flat because they don't actually "land." At least, that’s definitely what happened to me!

Let me wrap this whole thing up with one final observation. Honestly, I’m just fascinated by the sheer absurdity you see in the spiritual world. It’s wild. On one hand, you have people talking about realizing Unity, striving to connect with the One depending on their tradition, preaching how everything alive is interconnected, and pushing for tolerance and acceptance. But then, on the flip side, you’ve got these totally manufactured ideological divides—groups of people demanding you pick a side in conflicts that don't even exist, forcing opinions based on nothing but division. What’s really interesting is that the exact same "school of thought" pushes both extremes, regardless of which tradition they claim to follow. The only exceptions are those rare folks actually walking the middle path. It’s crazy to watch: at the same time people are reaching for Unity, they're also using belief systems that push the individual as far away from the One as possible!

Do you think true authenticity—and staying away from all those labels—is actually the secret sauce? I’m talking about acting in a way where any "labels" we use are just names on a page, rather than things that actually drive a wedge between people's core values. It’s all about making sure our actions don't create more division than just the words themselves!
Look, let’s be real—our brains are hardwired to slap a label or a nickname on everything we see. It's just how we're built! But honestly, things get messy fast when we start making moves that hurt ourselves or someone else just because we're trying to be all unique and colorful.

There you go. Honestly, nothing beats just sitting out in the woods and getting lost in thought—especially when you catch yourself mid-shave. Unity! And at the same time, you’re just totally overwhelmed by all the drawers, categories, divisions, and constant conflicts!

Look, categories and labels aren't inherently bad—they’re actually pretty necessary for making sense of things. They only become a problem when people start using them to judge someone's worth, like saying, "Oh, he belongs in this group, so he's less important than us." That's where you lose the plot.

Does this actually hold water?

Hey Privat, do you ever find yourself deep in thought about Unity or something like that? 😎

I have no answer for you. I am not preoccupied with this complex of "more or less value." 🤷

Pigeonholes become a problem when you mistake them for reality. For instance, a dichotomy (splitting a whole into two non-overlapping parts, where something belonging to one half cannot possibly belong to the other) is one such common, often politically correct, substitution for reality. If you compare mystical teachings intended for those within the temple to religious teachings meant for the masses outside the gates, the former exist in mutual interdependence, while the latter exist in conflict. It is clear that the latter must be internally conflicted and divided to be capable of fighting and dying for the former when required. To go out and kill, you must believe that good and evil exist as independent entities. You must believe in an illusion.

Am I being too blunt?

wearyhawk83 said:Sometimes you can be a little too blunt, you know? If someone isn't totally tuned in to what you're doing, they might miss the point entirely. You end up sending the wrong signal, or worse, all those heavy, meaningful words just fall flat because they don't actually "land." At least, that’s definitely what happened to me!

Let me wrap this whole thing up with one final observation. Honestly, I’m just fascinated by the sheer absurdity you see in the spiritual world. It’s wild. On one hand, you have people talking about realizing Unity, striving to connect with the One depending on their tradition, preaching how everything alive is interconnected, and pushing for tolerance and acceptance. But then, on the flip side, you’ve got these totally manufactured ideological divides—groups of people demanding you pick a side in conflicts that don't even exist, forcing opinions based on nothing but division. What’s really interesting is that the exact same "school of thought" pushes both extremes, regardless of which tradition they claim to follow. The only exceptions are those rare folks actually walking the middle path. It’s crazy to watch: at the same time people are reaching for Unity, they're also using belief systems that push the individual as far away from the One as possible!

Do you think true authenticity—and staying away from all those labels—is actually the secret sauce? I’m talking about acting in a way where any "labels" we use are just names on a page, rather than things that actually drive a wedge between people's core values. It’s all about making sure our actions don't create more division than just the words themselves!
Look, let’s be real—our brains are hardwired to slap a label or a nickname on everything we see. It's just how we're built! But honestly, things get messy fast when we start making moves that hurt ourselves or someone else just because we're trying to be all unique and colorful.

There you go. Honestly, nothing beats just sitting out in the woods and getting lost in thought—especially when you catch yourself mid-shave. Unity! And at the same time, you’re just totally overwhelmed by all the drawers, categories, divisions, and constant conflicts!

Look, categories and labels aren't inherently bad—they’re actually pretty necessary for making sense of things. They only become a problem when people start using them to judge someone's worth, like saying, "Oh, he belongs in this group, so he's less important than us." That's where you lose the plot.

Does this actually hold water?

Hey Privat, do you ever find yourself deep in thought about Unity or something like that? 😎

What is this supposed to mean, Privat?

Lisa Morales4 said:jademarlin26, if you aren't working on yourself, you're basically just an amoeba at this point
that’s not really a big deal
even an amoeba can become something more 🙂

Self-work isn't just about your own ego; it's about honoring the Absolute that you're actually a part of 🙂
it's all for the sake of Unity
but look, if someone hasn't reached that realization yet—seeing themselves within the Absolute (within Unity)—then they're just stuck focusing inward on themselves
and that's okay too

I am an integral part, a single fragment, of an eternal force
and that force is no illusion

force is energy
and energy is indestructible
you can store it, accumulate it, or manifest it, or you can transfer it

energy is eternal
I was born from the eternal
It's up to me whether I choose to nurture that spark and grow it into a flame
or if I'll just smother it until it's gone

I am The Flame and the Keeper

I am The Keeper

I actually find your perspective pretty compelling. There’s something to be said for that idea of discovering yourself within the absolute—the notion that you're fundamentally part of the same thing as the "You" standing right next to you. It's that concept of us all being pieces of one massive, universal spirit. 🙂

I honestly don't think we should be inflating our egos or playing judge when it comes to someone else's spiritual journey. To be blunt, I’ve always had an issue with the whole "self-improvement" cliché. It implies that everything is about focusing inward on yourself rather than actually showing up for others. If all we're doing is working on ourselves, then what we're building is ultimately hollow.

I’ve already posted this somewhere else, but I figured it belonged here too:

A student once posed a question to Dai Sui:
What exactly is my "self"?
Dai Sui responded:
That’s just who I am.
How is it even possible that my "I" is actually your "I"?
It’s just like you.

🙂🙂🙂

jademarlin26 said:Can the observer truly be separated from the observed? They seem inextricably linked, much like two sides of the same coin.

Just to get this conversation moving, I’ll play dumb for a second and pretend my question isn't purely rhetorical.

To be honest, I was pretty floored by how poorly some "spiritual leaders" responded to such a straightforward question. It almost leaves you feeling like nobody in the entire "spiritual community" is actually "spiritual" enough to even attempt to grasp the true essence of what's being asked here.

I'm willing to risk looking a bit foolish, so let me try to ground this question with a concrete example.

Picture this: I'm sitting at my kitchen table, looking out the window at a spectacularly ordinary sunset. From my perspective—if I didn't exist, there wouldn't even *be* a sunset. But since I am right here, watching this damn sunset unfold, I can't find a single way to distinguish myself from the experience of seeing it.

In fact, the very moment I try to pinpoint the difference between "me" and the sunset, the actual experience of the sunset vanishes. Instead, I'm just experiencing my own struggle to differentiate myself from something I'm no longer actually perceiving... and that honestly triggers a sense of anxiety almost instantly.

Looking at this through a layman's lens—as a bit of a "spiritual amateur"—I'd say that during the actual experience of the sunset, the "observer" and the "observed" ARE one and the same. Trying to draw a line between them just results in fracturing the "observer," who then spends all their energy fruitlessly trying to "catch" themselves in the act of observing, while the "observed" ceases to be a sunset in that moment.

Essentially, for the "observer" and the "observed" to be distinct, I would have to stop observing entirely, split myself in two, and then somehow "lend" one half of myself to the other to perform the observation (which sounds like a nightmare of a process).

The more effort I pour into that mental gymnastics, the more anxious I get, because I lose track of who is watching whom and why. Both halves feel equally real—both as the "observer" and the "observed"—so the whole experiment starts feeling like a mild schizophrenic episode.

I only find any peace when I give up on trying to tear the "observer" away from the "observed." Mostly, I just try not to ruin a perfectly beautiful sunset by making useless attempts to detach myself from it, which only serves to break the peaceful Unity that exists in the simple act of perceiving the light fading.

But hey, maybe I've finally lost it... since I'm just a "spiritual amateur," I have to assume there's some deep "spiritual" complexity in this division that keeps slipping through my fingers.

Ethan Johnson said:In my book, we’re basically just the observer—it’s just that most people are walking around totally oblivious to it.
I can tell you one thing for sure, what we aren't🙂: We aren't our clothes, our cars, the house we live in, or any of that stuff we go out and buy.
We aren't our nationality, we aren't our hometowns, we aren't even our names, and we definitely aren't our bodies.
I mean, think about it—your body is constantly shifting. Every single second we're aging, so in 5 or 10 years, we’ll have
totally different cells, different blood, maybe some wrinkles, or we might lose our hair... It's a big deal;
we aren't our emotions either! Just like the body, emotions are fleeting and they can actually be
managed—if we're actually aware of them. Same goes for our
thoughts. If the observer stays "awake" and self-aware, if you really get to know your emotions,
they might still sting, but not enough to make you feel like you *are* those feelings.

Society loves to slap labels and definitions on everything. But that’s not who we are. We shouldn't get caught up in those labels, because that’s where the suffering starts.
We need to realize who we truly are without getting tangled up in our emotions. You have to recognize them, but don't let them become part of you.

Here lies the core of a profound paradox—since change itself, acting as an eternal cycle, is the
only constant in this universe, then we truly become ourselves precisely through those very
(trans)formations.🙂

Jerry King11 said:I actually find your perspective pretty compelling. There’s something to be said for that idea of discovering yourself within the absolute—the notion that you're fundamentally part of the same thing as the "You" standing right next to you. It's that concept of us all being pieces of one massive, universal spirit. 🙂

I honestly don't think we should be inflating our egos or playing judge when it comes to someone else's spiritual journey. To be blunt, I’ve always had an issue with the whole "self-improvement" cliché. It implies that everything is about focusing inward on yourself rather than actually showing up for others. If all we're doing is working on ourselves, then what we're building is ultimately hollow.

I’ve already posted this somewhere else, but I figured it belonged here too:

A student once posed a question to Dai Sui:
What exactly is my "self"?
Dai Sui responded:
That’s just who I am.
How is it even possible that my "I" is actually your "I"?
It’s just like you.

🙂🙂🙂

yeah...

we are Unity

part of one single Body

Unity is paramount!

know God to understand yourself
know yourself to reach God

know yourself to reach the Universal Consciousness*
know the Universal Consciousness to better understand yourself

____________
* Universal Consciousness - the universal spirit

the essence of every being can be described through these synonyms:

the all-encompassing Spirit
the unity of the soul
consciousness
Universal Consciousness
God

understanding how our consciousness interacts with external physical systems is actually understanding how reality operates at a subatomic level, where everything is organized into energy packets or quanta

An individual's realization that we are all integral parts of this Unity/Oneness/one God is directly proportional to how much a person reflects God through their own life

meditation, through communication with God, helps a person find themselves within the natural law of Oneness
all power lies within our own self-reflection

there are no boundaries between a being and Nature, except for those we create ourselves
by reaching for the Truth in which we are self-aware under the guidance of our conscience, we outgrow those artificial social barriers
in our self-realization, we become aware that the suffering and joys of others are truly our own suffering and joys
we experience one another through a unified field, through Unity

humanity is an extension of natural laws, which means we can understand that we serve as mediums for the creator of the universe
we are composed of the same essence known as God
we are cells within the infinite Body of God
we are all made of God
of the Universal Consciousness
of the Universal Consciousness
we are One

to continue growing, we must follow the higher purpose: living for one another
life isn't just a result of random mathematical probabilities; it is the result of an intelligent universe that possesses Intent and is self-aware

just as our consciousness is the subject, the first person
the one that oversees our awareness, our mind, the object, the third person
as the one that sees all and cannot be seen

so too is the Universal Consciousness, God, all of us together—the singular super-consciousness, Jehovah, the Great Spirit, the all-seeing eye, Gaia, Mother Earth, the unified field of dynamics—the invisible, non-material subject
which governs us as objects of the perfect law of nature (the universe)

so, there you have it—what we are
what I am, what YOU are, what WE are

BTW, if I had held the elevator door open for as long as I sat on this page typing this out until I got exhausted and sick, the entire city of Chicago would be standing in line outside the lobby.

🙂

Edward Flores4 said:Just to get this conversation moving, I’ll play dumb for a second and pretend my question isn't purely rhetorical.

To be honest, I was pretty floored by how poorly some "spiritual leaders" responded to such a straightforward question. It almost leaves you feeling like nobody in the entire "spiritual community" is actually "spiritual" enough to even attempt to grasp the true essence of what's being asked here.

I'm willing to risk looking a bit foolish, so let me try to ground this question with a concrete example.

Picture this: I'm sitting at my kitchen table, looking out the window at a spectacularly ordinary sunset. From my perspective—if I didn't exist, there wouldn't even *be* a sunset. But since I am right here, watching this damn sunset unfold, I can't find a single way to distinguish myself from the experience of seeing it.

In fact, the very moment I try to pinpoint the difference between "me" and the sunset, the actual experience of the sunset vanishes. Instead, I'm just experiencing my own struggle to differentiate myself from something I'm no longer actually perceiving... and that honestly triggers a sense of anxiety almost instantly.

Looking at this through a layman's lens—as a bit of a "spiritual amateur"—I'd say that during the actual experience of the sunset, the "observer" and the "observed" ARE one and the same. Trying to draw a line between them just results in fracturing the "observer," who then spends all their energy fruitlessly trying to "catch" themselves in the act of observing, while the "observed" ceases to be a sunset in that moment.

Essentially, for the "observer" and the "observed" to be distinct, I would have to stop observing entirely, split myself in two, and then somehow "lend" one half of myself to the other to perform the observation (which sounds like a nightmare of a process).

The more effort I pour into that mental gymnastics, the more anxious I get, because I lose track of who is watching whom and why. Both halves feel equally real—both as the "observer" and the "observed"—so the whole experiment starts feeling like a mild schizophrenic episode.

I only find any peace when I give up on trying to tear the "observer" away from the "observed." Mostly, I just try not to ruin a perfectly beautiful sunset by making useless attempts to detach myself from it, which only serves to break the peaceful Unity that exists in the simple act of perceiving the light fading.

But hey, maybe I've finally lost it... since I'm just a "spiritual amateur," I have to assume there's some deep "spiritual" complexity in this division that keeps slipping through my fingers.

🙂 Look, spirituality is the polar opposite of the material world, so you're wasting your breath trying to find "spiritual" reasons for physical things happening.

The bottom line is that we’re running on two different operating systems here. One is that well-known, materialistic, ego-driven mode—basically our god-given nature—and the other is the spiritual mode, which sits right on the flip side. But let me tell you, hitting that spiritual gear isn't easy; it takes actual grit and hard work, specifically working against your own selfish instincts. You aren't trying to kill off your ego, you're just learning how to outmaneuver it and take the lead.

jademarlin26 said:So, are you the one who isn't "fully informed"? Why are you speaking in the third person?
If everything I wrote is worthless, then the message was successfully delivered.

I don't follow. The key to what?

I have no answer for you. I am not preoccupied with this complex of "more or less value." 🤷

Pigeonholes become a problem when you mistake them for reality. For instance, a dichotomy (splitting a whole into two non-overlapping parts, where something belonging to one half cannot possibly belong to the other) is one such common, often politically correct, substitution for reality. If you compare mystical teachings intended for those within the temple to religious teachings meant for the masses outside the gates, the former exist in mutual interdependence, while the latter exist in conflict. It is clear that the latter must be internally conflicted and divided to be capable of fighting and dying for the former when required. To go out and kill, you must believe that good and evil exist as independent entities. You must believe in an illusion.

Am I being too blunt?

What is this supposed to mean, Privat?

Look, if it were me, I wouldn't be talking in the third person. That’s just my take on it, along with everything else for that matter.

I don't get it, what's the key to what?

That's absurd. Just look at the big picture. The whole picture of society, basically.

I have no idea what you'd say. Don't hit me with that high-value/low-value complex stuff. 🤷

Witches are...

Okay, I think we're on different pages here.

Am I being too old for this?

Not even close.

What's this "Private" thing supposed to mean?

Alright, let's just ignore that word. So, do you ever "contemplate" Unity or something like that?

Lisa Morales4 said:yeah...

we are Unity

part of one single Body

Unity is paramount!

know God to understand yourself
know yourself to reach God

know yourself to reach the Universal Consciousness*
know the Universal Consciousness to better understand yourself

____________
* Universal Consciousness - the universal spirit

the essence of every being can be described through these synonyms:

the all-encompassing Spirit
the unity of the soul
consciousness
Universal Consciousness
God

understanding how our consciousness interacts with external physical systems is actually understanding how reality operates at a subatomic level, where everything is organized into energy packets or quanta

An individual's realization that we are all integral parts of this Unity/Oneness/one God is directly proportional to how much a person reflects God through their own life

meditation, through communication with God, helps a person find themselves within the natural law of Oneness
all power lies within our own self-reflection

there are no boundaries between a being and Nature, except for those we create ourselves
by reaching for the Truth in which we are self-aware under the guidance of our conscience, we outgrow those artificial social barriers
in our self-realization, we become aware that the suffering and joys of others are truly our own suffering and joys
we experience one another through a unified field, through Unity

humanity is an extension of natural laws, which means we can understand that we serve as mediums for the creator of the universe
we are composed of the same essence known as God
we are cells within the infinite Body of God
we are all made of God
of the Universal Consciousness
of the Universal Consciousness
we are One

to continue growing, we must follow the higher purpose: living for one another
life isn't just a result of random mathematical probabilities; it is the result of an intelligent universe that possesses Intent and is self-aware

just as our consciousness is the subject, the first person
the one that oversees our awareness, our mind, the object, the third person
as the one that sees all and cannot be seen

so too is the Universal Consciousness, God, all of us together—the singular super-consciousness, Jehovah, the Great Spirit, the all-seeing eye, Gaia, Mother Earth, the unified field of dynamics—the invisible, non-material subject
which governs us as objects of the perfect law of nature (the universe)

so, there you have it—what we are
what I am, what YOU are, what WE are

BTW, if I had held the elevator door open for as long as I sat on this page typing this out until I got exhausted and sick, the entire city of Chicago would be standing in line outside the lobby.

🙂

But what does "understanding yourself" actually mean? Maybe it’s just about stripping away all the trivial layers we pile on, until the experience of the "ego" doesn't even matter anymore—leaving nothing but the essence. Some people call that "awakening Christ within." I honestly don't know if truly great figures in history ever wasted their time with "self-help" or deep introspection; they usually had much bigger things to deal with here on Earth, right? Or look at what Zen teaches: lose yourself in your work, become one with the task, until the "self" simply vanishes...

@jademarlin26 I'm gonna try to be way more specific regarding my original post!

jademarlin26 said:You misinterpreted me. 🙂

The ability to create distance and observe one's own thoughts—critical self-reflection, essentially—is the very foundation of self-work and conscious growth. It allows for the shifting of attitudes and the cultivation of healthy relationships.

What I actually criticized is the behavioral pattern found in certain schools of thought. In an attempt to validate a fictional "ultimate reality" or a supposed "True Self," they demand that the individual identify with the observer at the expense of the observed. They justify this dichotomy through "intuitive knowledge" gained during meditation, which, in this instance, is nothing more than pure ideology and nonsense. Simple observation shows that the observer and the observed exist in a state of mutual interdependence. You cannot have one without the other. There is no dichotomy.

To conclude this post, I will offer one final observation. I find the absurdity within spiritual circles fascinating: on one hand, there is the realization of Unity, the pursuit of connection with the One, the interconnectedness of all living things, tolerance, and acceptance. On the other hand, there are ideologically manufactured dichotomies and mindsets that demand people take sides in non-existent conflicts, forcing views based on division. It is interesting how the same "school" pushes both extremes, regardless of tradition (unless, of course, one follows the middle path). Simultaneously, the drive toward the One is undermined by belief systems that push the individual as far away from that Unity as possible.

There you have it. It is quite useful to sit in silence and contemplate why you find yourself preaching Unity while being simultaneously cluttered with labels, categories, divisions, and conflict.

Can the observer ever really be separate from what's being observed? Aren't they two sides of the same coin?

The split between the observer (subject) and the observed (object) is just an illusion. Real ignorance is falling for that illusion and trying to take sides.

Isn't this all just talking about the exact same thing when we bring up the observer versus the observed? (especially regarding observing thoughts and critical self-reflection)

Look, at least that's how I've interpreted it through some reading I've done—not as two separate worlds, which is what you're getting at if I'm not mistaken.

What I'm trying to get at is that the stuff people are "clashing" over here, including those questions from Edward Flores4, might actually all be the same core idea, just wrapped up in different terminology.

Brian Foster3 said:🙂 Look, spirituality is the polar opposite of the material world, so you're wasting your breath trying to find "spiritual" reasons for physical things happening.

The bottom line is that we’re running on two different operating systems here. One is that well-known, materialistic, ego-driven mode—basically our god-given nature—and the other is the spiritual mode, which sits right on the flip side. But let me tell you, hitting that spiritual gear isn't easy; it takes actual grit and hard work, specifically working against your own selfish instincts. You aren't trying to kill off your ego, you're just learning how to outmaneuver it and take the lead.

Honestly, the only thing being wasted here is your time reading my post—you missed the point entirely because you're trying to slot my ideas into the little mental cubbyholes of your own dogma.

The core issue is that we are essentially running two different operating systems at once.

If I ever decide I want to join some cult, I'll be sure to check in with Quincy first. 🙄

Edward Flores4 said:Honestly, the only thing being wasted here is your time reading my post—you missed the point entirely because you're trying to slot my ideas into the little mental cubbyholes of your own dogma.

The core issue is that we are essentially running two different operating systems at once.

If I ever decide I want to join some cult, I'll be sure to check in with Quincy first. 🙄

Look, I’ve got zero interest in getting into some pointless, circular argument or playing games with you, so honestly, just go ahead and enjoy your little "spiritual delusions" all by yourself. 🙂

I can't believe I'm even seeing this right now, but honestly, it's just typical of how things go sometimes when you least expect them to fall apart!

If I ever decide I want to join some cult, I'm going straight to Madonna. 🙄

Madonna has about as much to do with the Kabbalah as you do with Christianity, if you catch my drift. But hey, if you're that desperate to join a cult, go ahead and follow her. ☕

Edward Flores4 said:Just to get this conversation moving, I’ll play dumb for a second and pretend my question isn't purely rhetorical.

To be honest, I was pretty floored by how poorly some "spiritual leaders" responded to such a straightforward question. It almost leaves you feeling like nobody in the entire "spiritual community" is actually "spiritual" enough to even attempt to grasp the true essence of what's being asked here.

I'm willing to risk looking a bit foolish, so let me try to ground this question with a concrete example.

Picture this: I'm sitting at my kitchen table, looking out the window at a spectacularly ordinary sunset. From my perspective—if I didn't exist, there wouldn't even *be* a sunset. But since I am right here, watching this damn sunset unfold, I can't find a single way to distinguish myself from the experience of seeing it.

In fact, the very moment I try to pinpoint the difference between "me" and the sunset, the actual experience of the sunset vanishes. Instead, I'm just experiencing my own struggle to differentiate myself from something I'm no longer actually perceiving... and that honestly triggers a sense of anxiety almost instantly.

Looking at this through a layman's lens—as a bit of a "spiritual amateur"—I'd say that during the actual experience of the sunset, the "observer" and the "observed" ARE one and the same. Trying to draw a line between them just results in fracturing the "observer," who then spends all their energy fruitlessly trying to "catch" themselves in the act of observing, while the "observed" ceases to be a sunset in that moment.

Essentially, for the "observer" and the "observed" to be distinct, I would have to stop observing entirely, split myself in two, and then somehow "lend" one half of myself to the other to perform the observation (which sounds like a nightmare of a process).

The more effort I pour into that mental gymnastics, the more anxious I get, because I lose track of who is watching whom and why. Both halves feel equally real—both as the "observer" and the "observed"—so the whole experiment starts feeling like a mild schizophrenic episode.

I only find any peace when I give up on trying to tear the "observer" away from the "observed." Mostly, I just try not to ruin a perfectly beautiful sunset by making useless attempts to detach myself from it, which only serves to break the peaceful Unity that exists in the simple act of perceiving the light fading.

But hey, maybe I've finally lost it... since I'm just a "spiritual amateur," I have to assume there's some deep "spiritual" complexity in this division that keeps slipping through my fingers.

Look, you haven't lost your mind or anything. It’s just that you haven't really trained yourself to be an observer yet. Because you lack that practice, things don't feel easy or fluid. You struggle to step back and actually detach—to just sit there, be aware of yourself, and watch the sunset while letting all those waves of thoughts and emotions wash over you without getting swept away by them. I guess it takes work.
It’s just like how you can't exactly string together complex sentences the second you start talking.

If you’re actually interested, my advice would be this: just try to sit back and watch what's happening inside your own head. You know, like observing the random images, the stray thoughts, and all those weird emotions that pop up out of nowhere. Just stay awake to it all—stay fully conscious of everything that’s unfolding in the moment. Maybe that's a good place to start.
If you actually want to pull this off, you probably need to cut out all the outside noise. I mean, seriously—isolate yourself from everything going on in the world. Shut out the chaos, close your eyes, and just focus inward. It might make that initial step of becoming an observer a little easier, I guess. Maybe.
At first, it’s just impossible to stay aware for most of the time you spend meditating. It's a bit of a roller coaster, I guess. You cycle through these different roles of the observer—moments where you’re actually conscious of yourself, your thoughts, your feelings, or even just the random images and sounds drifting through your mind or the room around you. But then, you slip. You drift into those states where you aren't really "you" anymore; you're just floating, carried away by that endless internal monologue and the mental movies we all play on loop. It’s always the same stuff, too—like, what happened to me earlier today, what am I going to tackle tomorrow, or that one thing I totally forgot to do... it just pulls you right back under.

With enough practice and time spent meditating, staying present during everything happening around you gets a whole lot easier. You actually start to truly soak in things—like watching a sunset—because you're fully aware of your own emotions and thoughts. You experience the beauty of the moment as one complete thing, without feeling lost in it or like you’ve somehow disappeared into the background.
Since we’re actually awake—you know, truly present and conscious in the moment—we realize that we aren't that sunset we're staring at. We exist even after the sun dips below the horizon, and we're fully aware of the sheer beauty and peace that sunset brings us. And honestly? Just being there to witness it doesn't disrupt anything or make us feel tense. It just is.
I guess anxiety tends to creep in whenever we try to tackle something that isn't coming naturally. You know, when you can't just cruise through it effortlessly, but instead find yourself straining and pushing way too hard. It’s exhausting, really. And honestly, that kind of intense effort usually ends up sucking all the joy right out of whatever you're looking at.