What is power?

brisktiger56 said:

hm... thinking of will as the steering module, while power is just the potential we have sitting there. It still trips me up a bit.

The whole OP thing bugs me because... wait, is this supposed to be about what someone's watching on TV?! Are we learning how to read now? Nemruth brings up politicians, but they aren't even part of the conversation. Is focusing that hard for you guys?

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Tony, if a person is physically and mentally sound, you can actually see their power in action when they use their free will—with a clear goal in mind—to execute a solid plan. That whole combination is what constitutes power. Maybe power (if you recall those elementary school lectures) is really just the union of all those elements; if you're missing even one piece of the puzzle, you won't be able to demonstrate any real power.

When someone starts a thread, they're essentially manifesting their power. I mean: they use their free will to write the OP, and they've got all the necessary prerequisites—the computer, the fingers hitting the keys, and the cash to pay the electric bill. Ultimately, it all results in power and the ability to draw people into the discussion.

I used to wonder how and when someone loses their power—like, does fear diminish their value, or... something else? Now, it seems to me that an individual's power is diminished whenever they're being deceived by someone else.

That’s a very visible way for people to witness power through direct action.
But what about the kind of power that shows up without us doing anything? Like how the world around us reacts to the moves we make.

I’ve always wondered how and when someone actually loses their grip on power—whether it's because fear drains their value or... something else entirely. Lately, I’m starting to think an individual's power is diminished whenever they get played by someone else.

I've already shared my take on this. Fear itself doesn't strip you of your power. What actually weakens you are the decisions you make and the actions you take *because* you're afraid.
As far as I'm concerned, no one can just reach out and diminish our power. Well, unless they're more powerful than we are.

From where I'm sitting, it feels like most of these comments are missing the mark just a little bit.
It’s honestly kind of funny because some people try to wrap their thoughts up in this poetic, romantic way—sort of like how a songwriter might phrase things—but when you strip all that away, we’re all basically saying the exact same thing.

Whether it’s romantic or not, I guess the main thing is just being on the same page.

Tony, please give me a concrete example here: you say power is clearly manifested through action. But what about power that manifests without direct action? Like, for instance, the way our environment reacts to what we actually do.

I laid out my take. Fear itself doesn't diminish power—it's the decisions and actions taken *because* of fear that do the damage.
In my view, nobody else can mess with our power. Well, okay, maybe if someone is significantly more powerful than us, they can.

Fear can chip away at an individual's confidence, which rattles their self-esteem, and then that whole chain reaction hits their thought process and how they use their free will to make decisions. If someone stops acting the way they intended because they got spooked, that's a degradation of power. Or... maybe it's not the potential for power that's shrinking, but just the will behind it (hmmm)? Whatever part of those core factors gets cut out, the end result is less power. It’s like fire. You need fuel, heat, and oxygen. Take one away, and the fire is gone.

An influential person or a group can sway others, effectively stripping them of their power through persuasion (whatever serves their agenda), intimidation, or direct physical confrontation—in extreme cases, even total incapacitation. Basically, might makes right. The ability to physically overpower or kill someone is undeniable proof of power. Of course, an influential person could also use that same power to empower others, helping them grow from weakness into strength...

So, power is essentially potential energy—the capacity for psychological or physical action created by specific factors like free will, motivation, goals, and the resources needed to reach those goals. Power can be used or abused, much like fire, nuclear energy, or money.
Power can be directed at others or inward toward oneself; it can be visible or invisible. Whether it's "enough" or not is really up to the individual in question.

Power is really just the next level of human desire once you've already exhausted your craving for wealth. Once you've chased down power, you move on to this even higher pursuit of knowledge, which is basically where all those material cravings finally die out.

At its core, wanting power is nothing more than trying to manipulate certain parts of reality just to suit your own needs. Honestly, if you look at it closely, the hunger for power is right up there with the desperate need for fame and glory.

Brian Foster3 said:Power is really just the next level of human desire once you've already exhausted your craving for wealth. Once you've chased down power, you move on to this even higher pursuit of knowledge, which is basically where all those material cravings finally die out.

At its core, wanting power is nothing more than trying to manipulate certain parts of reality just to suit your own needs. Honestly, if you look at it closely, the hunger for power is right up there with the desperate need for fame and glory.

Wealth, though? Are we talking cold hard cash or spiritual richness? I mean, someone could be considered powerful just because they’re rich in spirit, right? Like, if a person is charismatic enough to crack a joke—one they actually came up with themselves—and they manage to force everyone else into a fit of laughter, isn't that a form of power?

brisktiger56 said:Wealth, though? Are we talking cold hard cash or spiritual richness? I mean, someone could be considered powerful just because they’re rich in spirit, right? Like, if a person is charismatic enough to crack a joke—one they actually came up with themselves—and they manage to force everyone else into a fit of laughter, isn't that a form of power?

Exactly. It’s material. And honestly, it’s selfish. If you want to be truly "rich in spirit," you have to perceive things through a spiritual lens, which is a bit of a paradox. In this world, when we claim someone is spiritually wealthy, what we really mean is that they’re damn good at spotting weird, unexpected connections and analogies, or maybe they just have an incredibly deep understanding of the physical world—and yeah, that includes human thoughts and desires, even though people mistakenly label those things as "spiritual." At the end of the day, it all falls back into the material realm, not some mystical spiritual one.

Brian Foster3 said:Exactly. It’s material. And honestly, it’s selfish. If you want to be truly "rich in spirit," you have to perceive things through a spiritual lens, which is a bit of a paradox. In this world, when we claim someone is spiritually wealthy, what we really mean is that they’re damn good at spotting weird, unexpected connections and analogies, or maybe they just have an incredibly deep understanding of the physical world—and yeah, that includes human thoughts and desires, even though people mistakenly label those things as "spiritual." At the end of the day, it all falls back into the material realm, not some mystical spiritual one.

Wow... so, by that logic, being able to make people laugh is just pure egoism?

brisktiger56 said:Wow... so, by that logic, being able to make people laugh is just pure egoism?

Duh! It totally is. I mean, think about it—anyone who spends their time cracking jokes just to get a reaction is basically just feeding their own ego and sucking up all that attention for themselves.🙂
If brisktiger56 wasn't such a massive narcissist looking for a cheap thrill, he wouldn't even bother trying to be funny in the first place. 🙂

Brian Foster3 said:Duh! It totally is. I mean, think about it—anyone who spends their time cracking jokes just to get a reaction is basically just feeding their own ego and sucking up all that attention for themselves.🙂
If brisktiger56 wasn't such a massive narcissist looking for a cheap thrill, he wouldn't even bother trying to be funny in the first place. 🙂

So, is it also "selfish" to have the power to drag people down? Like, when we dump our personal baggage on everyone else—forcing them to deal with our drama, expecting them to make excuses for us being jerks...

Is cracking a joke to get a laugh just as selfish as making everyone feel miserable?

brisktiger56 said:So, is it also "selfish" to have the power to drag people down? Like, when we dump our personal baggage on everyone else—forcing them to deal with our drama, expecting them to make excuses for us being jerks...

Is cracking a joke to get a laugh just as selfish as making everyone feel miserable?

Basically, yeah. There’s a technicality there, but honestly, who cares? When you dump your problems on someone, you're just taking from them to get something back, whereas making someone laugh feels like giving—but even then, it's still about getting something "for yourself." Making people laugh is just a much sneakier kind of selfishness. You think you're being a saint by trying to cheer someone up, but really, you're just doing it so *you* don't have to sit there feeling depressed alongside them. If I can make you laugh, then both of us feel better, and suddenly I don't have to carry the weight of your bad mood anymore. It's all just a way to serve ourselves. 🙂

Brian Foster3 said:Basically, yeah. There’s a technicality there, but honestly, who cares? When you dump your problems on someone, you're just taking from them to get something back, whereas making someone laugh feels like giving—but even then, it's still about getting something "for yourself." Making people laugh is just a much sneakier kind of selfishness. You think you're being a saint by trying to cheer someone up, but really, you're just doing it so *you* don't have to sit there feeling depressed alongside them. If I can make you laugh, then both of us feel better, and suddenly I don't have to carry the weight of your bad mood anymore. It's all just a way to serve ourselves. 🙂

Are you suggesting that it's impossible to give or receive anything without it being an act of egoism?
Is it truly impossible to want someone to be happy and find joy in their happiness itself, rather than finding joy in the fact that you were the one who caused it?

Brian Foster3 said:Basically, yeah. There’s a technicality there, but honestly, who cares? When you dump your problems on someone, you're just taking from them to get something back, whereas making someone laugh feels like giving—but even then, it's still about getting something "for yourself." Making people laugh is just a much sneakier kind of selfishness. You think you're being a saint by trying to cheer someone up, but really, you're just doing it so *you* don't have to sit there feeling depressed alongside them. If I can make you laugh, then both of us feel better, and suddenly I don't have to carry the weight of your bad mood anymore. It's all just a way to serve ourselves. 🙂

Selfishness is clearly everywhere...

but still, I find it hard to wrap my head around calling the act of giving to someone else an "abuse of power" just because egoism is pulling the strings behind the scenes...

Nathan Cook4 said:Are you suggesting that it's impossible to give or receive anything without it being an act of egoism?
Is it truly impossible to want someone to be happy and find joy in their happiness itself, rather than finding joy in the fact that you were the one who caused it?

Spot on. It’s just how we're wired. Those rare souls who actually manage to step outside their own ego—even just a little bit—can actually sense the spiritual side of things, but only to the exact extent they've managed to shed that selfishness. If you aren't perceiving the spiritual, you're 100% trapped in your own ego.

Don't you think it's possible to genuinely want someone else to be happy and just enjoy their happiness, rather than getting a kick out of the fact that *you* were the one who made them happy?

Sure, it's possible in a spiritual sense, but in the real, material world? Forget about it.
It’s like the bond between a mother and her child. A mom gets a rush from seeing her kid happy and providing for them. And even if she doesn't consciously think, "Wow, I'm so happy because *I* was the one who provided this," you still have to ask yourself: if it's truly selfless, why doesn't she feel that exact same way for every other child out there?🙂

If I claim I want someone else to be happy, I have to face the music: what's my angle? What am I getting out of it? Do I even get anything at all? Go ahead, tell me—from where you're sitting, what's the payoff?🙂

brisktiger56 said:Selfishness is clearly everywhere...

but still, I find it hard to wrap my head around calling the act of giving to someone else an "abuse of power" just because egoism is pulling the strings behind the scenes...

Exactly.

but still, wouldn't giving to someone else be better for them, I find it hard to accept it as an abuse of power when selfishness is acting as the "client"...

Nobody ever said this was an "abuse," even if selfishness is pulling the strings—it’s just hidden, and that’s the whole damn trick. We can't even see our own selfishness because we all love to tell ourselves how great we are... and honestly, why wouldn't we? 😉

Brian Foster3 said:Exactly.

but still, wouldn't giving to someone else be better for them, I find it hard to accept it as an abuse of power when selfishness is acting as the "client"...

Nobody ever said this was an "abuse," even if selfishness is pulling the strings—it’s just hidden, and that’s the whole damn trick. We can't even see our own selfishness because we all love to tell ourselves how great we are... and honestly, why wouldn't we? 😉

Why?

Hmmmm, good question... why do we love thinking well of ourselves?
If we had actual power, wouldn't we just use it to feed that exact need?

brisktiger56 said:Why?

Hmmmm, good question... why do we love thinking well of ourselves?
If we had actual power, wouldn't we just use it to feed that exact need?

Duh, obviously! We love feeling good because, frankly, it feels great. And since everything we do is basically a quest for some kind of hit of dopamine, we feed ourselves these pretty little thoughts about how awesome we are just to soak up that sweet, sweet satisfaction. If we actually faced the truth and thought poorly of ourselves, it would be pure misery, and let's be real—nobody wants to deal with suffering. So yeah, we're being totally selfish by thinking well of ourselves just so we can feel comfortable.🙂

The ways we pull this off are endless. I mean, look at us: we twist reality to fit our narrative, we flat-out ignore things that happen, we deny what's right in front of our faces, and then we go ahead and craft our own little "subjective truths" through pure delusion, making stuff up, fantasizing, or just gaslighting ourselves until we believe the lie.

Brian Foster3 said:Duh, obviously! We love feeling good because, frankly, it feels great. And since everything we do is basically a quest for some kind of hit of dopamine, we feed ourselves these pretty little thoughts about how awesome we are just to soak up that sweet, sweet satisfaction. If we actually faced the truth and thought poorly of ourselves, it would be pure misery, and let's be real—nobody wants to deal with suffering. So yeah, we're being totally selfish by thinking well of ourselves just so we can feel comfortable.🙂

The ways we pull this off are endless. I mean, look at us: we twist reality to fit our narrative, we flat-out ignore things that happen, we deny what's right in front of our faces, and then we go ahead and craft our own little "subjective truths" through pure delusion, making stuff up, fantasizing, or just gaslighting ourselves until we believe the lie.

So, if we aren't using it to dodge reality, how are we actually supposed to use power?

Brian Foster3 said:Spot on. It’s just how we're wired. Those rare souls who actually manage to step outside their own ego—even just a little bit—can actually sense the spiritual side of things, but only to the exact extent they've managed to shed that selfishness. If you aren't perceiving the spiritual, you're 100% trapped in your own ego.

Don't you think it's possible to genuinely want someone else to be happy and just enjoy their happiness, rather than getting a kick out of the fact that *you* were the one who made them happy?

Sure, it's possible in a spiritual sense, but in the real, material world? Forget about it.
It’s like the bond between a mother and her child. A mom gets a rush from seeing her kid happy and providing for them. And even if she doesn't consciously think, "Wow, I'm so happy because *I* was the one who provided this," you still have to ask yourself: if it's truly selfless, why doesn't she feel that exact same way for every other child out there?🙂

If I claim I want someone else to be happy, I have to face the music: what's my angle? What am I getting out of it? Do I even get anything at all? Go ahead, tell me—from where you're sitting, what's the payoff?🙂

The benefit lies in the fact that you know what misery feels like, and you don't want anyone else to experience it. Has there ever been a moment in your life where you thought, "God forbid this ever happens to anyone else"?
Similarly, you want others to be happy because the world is at its best then. Just look at a person when they are laughing from the heart. Surely, you want for others what you want for yourself.

brisktiger56 said:So, if we aren't using it to dodge reality, how are we actually supposed to use power?

There isn't some simple, one-size-fits-all answer to that question.

The whole system is rigged so we just spend our lives acting like mindless robots, constantly being driven by the carrot and the stick—you know, that endless cycle of chasing pleasure and trying to dodge pain—and honestly, everything just revolves around that shallow grind. The entire point of this rat race is to pile up enough suffering until we finally hit a breaking point where we actually want to escape the loop, which usually happens on an individual level once someone finally matures. That’s when the second stage kicks in: you start craving something spiritual and begin preparing to step into that realm. Then comes the third stage, where you actually enter the spiritual world and start climbing those higher levels.

In my own opinion, once you've secured all the basic necessities required to survive here on Earth (which obviously looks different for everyone), any power you have left over should be channeled and used solely to pursue spiritual enlightenment.

Nathan Cook4 said:The benefit lies in the fact that you know what misery feels like, and you don't want anyone else to experience it. Has there ever been a moment in your life where you thought, "God forbid this ever happens to anyone else"?
Similarly, you want others to be happy because the world is at its best then. Just look at a person when they are laughing from the heart. Surely, you want for others what you want for yourself.

Oh, absolutely. But that was a lifetime ago. Eventually, I realized that God is actually the one orchestrating those exact moments, and He does it for a damn good reason. That applies to everyone, across the board, no exceptions.

The real problem when people face these situations that God sets up—and let's be honest, God is behind everything that happens—is our own massive egos.

Honestly, these days, I almost find myself glad when someone hits a rough patch, because I know it's just God pushing them forward toward a state that's going to be better than anything they've experienced before. Our human ideas of what counts as "good" or "bad" are purely selfish delusions and have zero claim to being the truth; they're just reflections of our own petty desires and personalities playing out.

It’s the same thing with wanting people to be happy, because the world just looks more beautiful that way. Just look at someone when they're laughing from the bottom of their heart. You probably want others to have the same things you want for yourself.

So, basically, you want to make people happy because it makes the "world most beautiful." For *you*. To me, the world doesn't get any prettier just because you made someone smile. Look, I don't know you, I don't know when you make people happy, and I personally gain nothing from it. But you do. You get the "beautiful world" as your little reward for playing the hero. 😉

Look, it's fine. I'm not attacking you or trying to tear you down or anything like that. I'm just trying to point out the hidden, deeper motivation lurking behind every single thought, feeling, or action we have... which is that, ultimately, we are always trying to satisfy ourselves, which is inherently selfish by default. That's all.