Socialism-democracy vs. communism-capitalism

Does anyone in America still actually support these four principles?

Personally, I’m all about socialism and communism--

1. everyone was part of the middle class
2. there were plenty of jobs available☕

Eric Cooper said:Does anyone in America still actually support these four principles?

Personally, I’m all about socialism and communism--

1. everyone was part of the middle class
2. there were plenty of jobs available☕

If we had implemented true socialism and communism, things wouldn't have collapsed like this. Those systems were just too perfect to survive in the current climate.

Sure, there were jobs, but at what kind of cost? They kept opening up all these massive, money-losing factories just to create positions... who exactly was footing that bill?? The whole system eventually just imploded under its own weight...
Capitalism isn't exactly flawless, but it fits the spirit of things, and honestly, it drives human progress at this stage of our development...

wearyhawk273 said:If we had implemented true socialism and communism, things wouldn't have collapsed like this. Those systems were just too perfect to survive in the current climate.

Sure, there were jobs, but at what kind of cost? They kept opening up all these massive, money-losing factories just to create positions... who exactly was footing that bill?? The whole system eventually just imploded under its own weight...
Capitalism isn't exactly flawless, but it fits the spirit of things, and honestly, it drives human progress at this stage of our development...

socialism and communism failed because of Americans

but the Cinenica is that back then, everyone had something

Eric Cooper said:socialism and communism failed because of Americans

but the Cinenica is that back then, everyone had something

🤣
Cinenica is that you only had all that stuff because you were running up massive debts.

redstag said:🤣
Cinenica is that you only had all that stuff because you were running up massive debts.

🤣
And now? Now you’ve got absolutely nothing to show for it, and you’re even deeper in the hole with even bigger debts than before.

redstag said:🤣
Cinenica is that you only had all that stuff because you were running up massive debts.

Ever since the collapse of Communism, debt has been climbing steadily, which means what we have actually inherited is
nothing more than 🤷 😕

Eric Cooper said:socialism and communism failed because of Americans

but the Cinenica is that back then, everyone had something

😕🤷

So why didn't America fail because of Communism? (assuming what you're saying is even remotely true—I mean, at the end of the day, what exactly did Americans gain from the collapse of Communism?)

slygardener4 said:Ever since the collapse of Communism, debt has been climbing steadily, which means what we have actually inherited is
nothing more than 🤷 😕

Honestly, this really calls for a deep dive from someone who actually understands the nuances of economics...
But look, Capitalism is fundamentally built on desire. If people didn't crave better things, they wouldn't be buying anything at all. And because people always want more—always wanting that next best thing—they take out loans... and that leads us straight to interest rates, which leads us right into the trap of massive debt. You want a bridge, a car, a hospital, a ship, a house, a highway... well, that's exactly what we've gotten through all this borrowing...

Eric Cooper said:socialism and communism failed because of Americans

but the Cinenica is that back then, everyone had something

Had what, exactly?
A massive, infallible leader who could do no wrong?
A handful of transit vouchers for the occasional bus ride?
Maybe a Fic or a Yugo that you had to wait a whole year for—all while your neighbor just rolled up from a trip to capitalist Germany in a brand-new Mercedes-Benz?
A cushy government job where 90% of the staff basically did absolutely nothing?
The "privilege" of traveling just so you could head over to Denver for some groceries or hit New York City for clothes?
The honor of being drafted into the military622 miles right from your own front door?
Long lines just to get decent bread?
Seriously, what did they actually *have*?

I’m sure those Bastions Communism (like Korea and Cuba) are just dying to welcome all of you people who keep whining about wanting Communism! Safe travels!

Capitalism isn't really a form of governance, per se; it’s an economic framework that functions within the structure of a democracy.
Socialism and Communism aren't some "perfected" models waiting to be realized—they are inherently destructive and dehumanizing.
Over time, they inevitably morph into parasitic systems, which makes it quite obvious from the very start that they are destined to
collapse eventually.

Eric Cooper said:socialism and communism failed because of Americans

but the Cinenica is that back then, everyone had something

they had security in The West too, though it feels like they're tightening the reins now just out of fear that Communism might take hold there—which is why worker protections seem to be slipping away...

as for this whole debate between Capitalism and Communism, I honestly think things won't truly improve for the people until society evolves and raises its collective IQ...

Dennis Baker34 said:Had what, exactly?
A massive, infallible leader who could do no wrong?
A handful of transit vouchers for the occasional bus ride?
Maybe a Fic or a Yugo that you had to wait a whole year for—all while your neighbor just rolled up from a trip to capitalist Germany in a brand-new Mercedes-Benz?
A cushy government job where 90% of the staff basically did absolutely nothing?
The "privilege" of traveling just so you could head over to Denver for some groceries or hit New York City for clothes?
The honor of being drafted into the military622 miles right from your own front door?
Long lines just to get decent bread?
Seriously, what did they actually *have*?

I’m sure those Bastions Communism (like Korea and Cuba) are just dying to welcome all of you people who keep whining about wanting Communism! Safe travels!

And what do we have now? An incompetent, corrupt leadership; gas prices so high they're insane—you can't even afford a car; zero jobs available; I could technically travel anywhere I want, but I can't go anywhere because I'm broke; and the military is non-existent (that's the one plus, I guess)...

Besides, back then (at least from what I remember), it wasn't even the kind of Communism you saw in SK, Cuba, or Romania...

driftingdrifter88 said:And what do we have now? An incompetent, corrupt leadership; gas prices so high they're insane—you can't even afford a car; zero jobs available; I could technically travel anywhere I want, but I can't go anywhere because I'm broke; and the military is non-existent (that's the one plus, I guess)...

Besides, back then (at least from what I remember), it wasn't even the kind of Communism you saw in SK, Cuba, or Romania...

Look, we choose our own leaders! As for who's actually a thief, that's a job for the American courts and police.

driftingdrifter88 said:And what do we have now? An incompetent, corrupt leadership; gas prices so high they're insane—you can't even afford a car; zero jobs available; I could technically travel anywhere I want, but I can't go anywhere because I'm broke; and the military is non-existent (that's the one plus, I guess)...

Besides, back then (at least from what I remember), it wasn't even the kind of Communism you saw in SK, Cuba, or Romania...

Sure, ExxonMobil is pricey, but the average American family owns two cars now—and they aren't some old Yugo or a Chevrolet, they're mostly German or Japanese imports.
Hint: just take a look at any street!

driftingdrifter88 said:And what do we have now? An incompetent, corrupt leadership; gas prices so high they're insane—you can't even afford a car; zero jobs available; I could technically travel anywhere I want, but I can't go anywhere because I'm broke; and the military is non-existent (that's the one plus, I guess)...

Besides, back then (at least from what I remember), it wasn't even the kind of Communism you saw in SK, Cuba, or Romania...

Jobs exist—honestly, I don't know a single one of my colleagues (mechanical engineers) who isn't working; most are pulling in $50k a year or more, which was nothing but a pipe dream back in the America days.
Americans travel a lot—just look at the numbers regarding how many people are wintering away in Austria or Italy now compared to twenty years ago.

driftingdrifter88 said:And what do we have now? An incompetent, corrupt leadership; gas prices so high they're insane—you can't even afford a car; zero jobs available; I could technically travel anywhere I want, but I can't go anywhere because I'm broke; and the military is non-existent (that's the one plus, I guess)...

Besides, back then (at least from what I remember), it wasn't even the kind of Communism you saw in SK, Cuba, or Romania...

True, the reason we lived slightly better than those stuck in pure Communism was actually that tiny bit of allowed Capitalism—the fact that they didn't nationalize every single farm and private house, and having that freedom of labor like in Germany...

redstag said:🤣
Cinenica is that you only had all that stuff because you were running up massive debts.

Give me a break. You’re looking at a population of 20 million with a $20 billion GDP versus an American population of 4.5 million with a $60 billion GDP. We are essentially 15 times more indebted now—do the math, buddy, that’s 1500%. Under the old system, it was $1,000 per capita; now, we’re sitting at $15,000 per capita. Get your head out of the sand.

wearyhawk273 said:😕🤷

So why didn't America fail because of Communism? (assuming what you're saying is even remotely true—I mean, at the end of the day, what exactly did Americans gain from the collapse of Communism?)

So why all this intense opposition then? It’s a non-stop cycle of Cold War tensions against the socialist bloc—the blockade of Cuba, the Gulf of Pigs, Vietnam, Nicaragua... it never ends. The truth is, they are terrified. They keep their own people, the working class, kept in the dark to maintain control. You have experts trained like mindless drones who can successfully land a man on the Moon, yet they actually believe the propaganda that women were communal property in the USSR or that everyone lived on scraps from a single pot. This isn't about ideology; it's pure fear. It's the wealthy elite panicking at the thought of losing their fortunes through fair redistribution.

Dennis Baker34 said:Had what, exactly?
A massive, infallible leader who could do no wrong?
A handful of transit vouchers for the occasional bus ride?
Maybe a Fic or a Yugo that you had to wait a whole year for—all while your neighbor just rolled up from a trip to capitalist Germany in a brand-new Mercedes-Benz?
A cushy government job where 90% of the staff basically did absolutely nothing?
The "privilege" of traveling just so you could head over to Denver for some groceries or hit New York City for clothes?
The honor of being drafted into the military622 miles right from your own front door?
Long lines just to get decent bread?
Seriously, what did they actually *have*?

I’m sure those Bastions Communism (like Korea and Cuba) are just dying to welcome all of you people who keep whining about wanting Communism! Safe travels!

Lies and half-truths from A to Z. It's obvious you're just some expat obsessed with that "German logic" nonsense. We despised people like you during Communism, and honestly, we still do.

Robin Reyes23 said:Capitalism isn't really a form of governance, per se; it’s an economic framework that functions within the structure of a democracy.
Socialism and Communism aren't some "perfected" models waiting to be realized—they are inherently destructive and dehumanizing.
Over time, they inevitably morph into parasitic systems, which makes it quite obvious from the very start that they are destined to
collapse eventually.

This current mafia-style state is also parasitic; the people can no longer afford to fund it, and it only exists by racking up massive debts at the expense of its own citizens. Collapse is inevitable and imminent!

Dennis Baker34 said:Look, we choose our own leaders! As for who's actually a thief, that's a job for the American courts and police.

Sure, ExxonMobil is pricey, but the average American family owns two cars now—and they aren't some old Yugo or a Chevrolet, they're mostly German or Japanese imports.
Hint: just take a look at any street!

Jobs exist—honestly, I don't know a single one of my colleagues (mechanical engineers) who isn't working; most are pulling in $50k a year or more, which was nothing but a pipe dream back in the America days.
Americans travel a lot—just look at the numbers regarding how many people are wintering away in Austria or Italy now compared to twenty years ago.

True, the reason we lived slightly better than those stuck in pure Communism was actually that tiny bit of allowed Capitalism—the fact that they didn't nationalize every single farm and private house, and having that freedom of labor like in Germany...

Are you joking? The American court and police? Which thief have they actually caught, let alone convicted?
In America, we drove almost every car in the world except for American ones. We had Opels, BMWs, Volkswagens, Peugeots, Renault-Citroëns, Simcas, Auto Unions, Mercedes-Benzes, Mazdas, Toyotas, Datsuns, and Fiats. And yes, we had Ladas, Moskvitchs, Wartburgs, and of course, the 101s and Yugos. Ask anyone who actually lived through America!
There are 310,000 officially unemployed, not to mention the unofficial numbers. What are you talking about?
And millions of us vacationed on the Atlantic coast. You wouldn't have been able to set foot on those beaches back then.
Life was good thanks to honest work and self-management. The Party acted as the ultimate moral authority, ensuring things were done right—that the state wasn't being cheated and that wages were paid on time. Today, the Party has been replaced by the mob; tycoons cheat the state and the workers. People work without getting paid—I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it; it's insane, completely irrational. If you had predicted this during America, they would have locked you in a mental asylum, and if you spoke about 1991, they would have shot you. Who would fight for that? But we did, and clearly, you prefer that kind of regime!

driftingdrifter88 said:And what do we have now? An incompetent, corrupt leadership; gas prices so high they're insane—you can't even afford a car; zero jobs available; I could technically travel anywhere I want, but I can't go anywhere because I'm broke; and the military is non-existent (that's the one plus, I guess)...

Besides, back then (at least from what I remember), it wasn't even the kind of Communism you saw in SK, Cuba, or Romania...

🙏

For heaven's sake, you people clinging to Communism need to realize that if you actually want to own anything, you’re going to have to start working for it.

hiddensurfer17 said:For heaven's sake, you people clinging to Communism need to realize that if you actually want to own anything, you’re going to have to start working for it.

So, how many Communists are there even in America? Honestly, none of us on this Forum have exactly been known for our tireless work ethic.😉

Rachel Garcia said:So, how many Communists are there even in America? Honestly, none of us on this Forum have exactly been known for our tireless work ethic.😉

It’s not like we’re getting paid for this. We make our living somewhere else.

hiddensurfer17 said:It’s not like we’re getting paid for this. We make our living somewhere else.

Just a little joke. I work too, even if my paychecks aren't always on schedule.

hiddensurfer17 said:For heaven's sake, you people clinging to Communism need to realize that if you actually want to own anything, you’re going to have to start working for it.

And where exactly am I supposed to go? Shipyards, farming, a steel mill in Chicago, textile plants in Dover, working for Peavey, Walton, or Trump, or on Wall Street? It's all dead ends. There are zero options!