Grading Freshmen

David Anderson49 said:The example I used comes straight from an official school textbook... or rather, a workbook. In every single one of those problems, you're expected to write out the calculation or equation first, and then provide the written answer.

I have a first-grade textbook sitting here right now. At the end of every lesson unit, there are these application problems.
For instance, if Jack London has six pencils and Gita has seventeen, how many pencils does Jack London need to take so that he ends up with the same amount as Gita?
The requirement is to set up the equation and then provide the solution.
Then, at the very back of the book, there's a section for "Math Brain Teasers"—which, according to the teacher's manual, are intended for gifted students. You'll find all sorts of things in there, ranging from logic puzzles that don't involve math at all to actual mathematical problems where you aren't explicitly told to set up an equation. They aren't graded, of course—they shouldn't be—but I suspect they're quite engaging for a lot of kids.

fadedtrucker8 said:You're acting like it’s some kind of high-stakes crisis... honestly, this is child's play. I guess about 90% of them end up with honors... and then God help us when they actually hit the real world. Of course, all the parents will be beaming with pride. Hahaha 🤣

It feels to me like you're already looking back from third grade, which is why you think first grade is such a "piece of cake." Anyone who actually grew up knows that for a six-year-old, starting first grade is just as massive an undertaking as a high school senior facing graduation at eighteen.

wanderinggardener12 said:It feels to me like you're already looking back from third grade, which is why you think first grade is such a "piece of cake." Anyone who actually grew up knows that for a six-year-old, starting first grade is just as massive an undertaking as a high school senior facing graduation at eighteen.

Most kids find it boring because they walk into first grade already knowing how to read, write, and do basic math..🤷

Third grade, however, seems to present a genuine challenge. 😉

fadedtrucker8 said:Most kids find it boring because they walk into first grade already knowing how to read, write, and do basic math..🤷

Third grade, however, seems to present a genuine challenge. 😉

Is this an actual challenge for you, or just for some third grader?

wanderinggardener12 said:Is this an actual challenge for you, or just for some third grader?

I finished middle school quite some time ago, haha.

I suppose mastering multiplication and division up to 1,000 might be a stretch, along with reading 100-page novels or perhaps putting together a PowerPoint presentation.😉

fadedtrucker8 said:I finished middle school quite some time ago, haha.

I suppose mastering multiplication and division up to 1,000 might be a stretch, along with reading 100-page novels or perhaps putting together a PowerPoint presentation.😉

But where is the actual challenge in that? Once you truly grasp the mechanics of multiplication and division, it doesn't really matter if you're working with 100, 1,000, or 100,000,000... because in that third scenario, you're still just dealing with single-digit multipliers anyway.

As for the required reading, that all comes down to whether the kid actually enjoys reading, rather than how many pages are in the book.
My little one is such a bookworm that he's constantly reading the novels meant for his older sister, who's already in eighth grade...

brightheron64 said:But where is the actual challenge in that? Once you truly grasp the mechanics of multiplication and division, it doesn't really matter if you're working with 100, 1,000, or 100,000,000... because in that third scenario, you're still just dealing with single-digit multipliers anyway.

As for the required reading, that all comes down to whether the kid actually enjoys reading, rather than how many pages are in the book.
My little one is such a bookworm that he's constantly reading the novels meant for his older sister, who's already in eighth grade...

and then asking third graders to put together a PowerPoint presentation...

honestly, isn't that a bit much to expect from a teacher...

not everyone is capable of doing that on their own... my brothers did all mine...🙄 just like everyone else..

fadedtrucker8 said:and then asking third graders to put together a PowerPoint presentation...

honestly, isn't that a bit much to expect from a teacher...

not everyone is capable of doing that on their own... my brothers did all mine...🙄 just like everyone else..

I honestly have no idea where you're getting that from. My daughter just finished fourth grade, and there hasn't been a single mention of computer science, let alone making PowerPoints...

She won't even touch actual tech classes until middle school, though I don't think she'll struggle much once she gets there, since her dad is a software engineer and she's basically been glued to a computer since she was two years old... 🤣

brightheron64 said:I honestly have no idea where you're getting that from. My daughter just finished fourth grade, and there hasn't been a single mention of computer science, let alone making PowerPoints...

She won't even touch actual tech classes until middle school, though I don't think she'll struggle much once she gets there, since her dad is a software engineer and she's basically been glued to a computer since she was two years old... 🤣

Well, in our local elementary school, the kids actually had to put together a PowerPoint presentation back in 3rd grade... the topic was basically a recap of everything they learned in American history throughout the year.🙄

That's quite a bit.

fadedtrucker8 said:Well, in our local elementary school, the kids actually had to put together a PowerPoint presentation back in 3rd grade... the topic was basically a recap of everything they learned in American history throughout the year.🙄

That's quite a bit.

The real issue is when they show up without any homework done because they honestly don't get what it means... like, did they never actually teach them how to do this?🤷

Rachel Jones8 said:The real issue is when they show up without any homework done because they honestly don't get what it means... like, did they never actually teach them how to do this?🤷

Sure, everyone has used a USB drive or an external hard drive at school before, but there is a line between being tech-savvy and this level of excess, which is frankly excessive 🙂 and, naturally, they didn't just figure it out on their own.

It reminds me of that massive poster project from a few years back in fourth grade... the topic was the United States in World War I.

I mean, honestly... my husband and I were up until nearly one in the morning printing things and gluing everything together.

Nicholas King said:And how many minutes does "culture" actually take?

Kids—I’m convinced of this—possess more than enough cognitive capacity on their own. The real issue lies with the adults: both the teachers in the classroom and the parents at home. They seem obsessed with forcing math into rigid, predictable templates instead of... well, if parents aren't capable of doing it themselves, they probably shouldn't be doing it at home, but rather letting schools handle it—letting them actually play with logic puzzles and brain teasers instead.

Maybe 30 minutes?
Or maybe just half an hour? 🤔

fadedtrucker8 said:Sure, everyone has used a USB drive or an external hard drive at school before, but there is a line between being tech-savvy and this level of excess, which is frankly excessive 🙂 and, naturally, they didn't just figure it out on their own.

It reminds me of that massive poster project from a few years back in fourth grade... the topic was the United States in World War I.

I mean, honestly... my husband and I were up until nearly one in the morning printing things and gluing everything together.

It’s complete nonsense, really, and the teacher who actually spearheaded or organized something like this should be held accountable, because the whole point shouldn't be about which student has the most educated or capable parents, but rather about what the child is actually able to accomplish themselves...

fadedtrucker8 said:Sure, everyone has used a USB drive or an external hard drive at school before, but there is a line between being tech-savvy and this level of excess, which is frankly excessive 🙂 and, naturally, they didn't just figure it out on their own.

It reminds me of that massive poster project from a few years back in fourth grade... the topic was the United States in World War I.

I mean, honestly... my husband and I were up until nearly one in the morning printing things and gluing everything together.

Posters are pure evil.

The whole point of those damn posters is to let some teacher plaster their classroom walls and pretend they’re some kind of pedagogical genius—as if visual clutter equals actual teaching effectiveness.

Well, I suppose there is one other purpose: these things serve as the perfect excuse to hand out A's to those students who wouldn't normally get even a glance from the instructor in their wildest dreams🙂.

Sure, making posters takes a ton of effort, but let’s be real—it’s not about decorating the classroom walls.🤣 Honestly, an elementary school kid would much rather design a poster about a book they just read than sit through a tedious reading journal assignment. Plus, you get that extra layer of skill where they actually have to stand up and present their work to the class, which is nerve-wracking for a lot of kids. There are tons of perks: researching, reading, picking out the key points, writing, drawing, getting creative, and speaking in public... You just have to make sure they actually have enough time to get it done, both at home and during school hours.
Topics like 'The US in World War I' should probably be handled during class time by working on a group poster together, just to hammer home the most important facts.

Grace Kern3 said:Sure, making posters takes a ton of effort, but let’s be real—it’s not about decorating the classroom walls.🤣 Honestly, an elementary school kid would much rather design a poster about a book they just read than sit through a tedious reading journal assignment. Plus, you get that extra layer of skill where they actually have to stand up and present their work to the class, which is nerve-wracking for a lot of kids. There are tons of perks: researching, reading, picking out the key points, writing, drawing, getting creative, and speaking in public... You just have to make sure they actually have enough time to get it done, both at home and during school hours.
Topics like 'The US in World War I' should probably be handled during class time by working on a group poster together, just to hammer home the most important facts.

I suspect most parents either already possess those skills themselves or, frankly, it's a bit too late in their lives to start acquiring them by making their kid's school projects...

Pure nonsense, honestly... just a whole lot of nothing. As someone who’s worked just about every job under the sun and actually bothered to get a college degree (not that anyone can tell you much about the value of one these days), I can say with absolute certainty that I walked out of elementary school having learned virtually nothing useful. It’s just like > mentioned earlier... I already knew how to read and do basic math before I even stepped foot into first grade. Even now, looking back, there isn't a single thing from my primary or high school years that has actually served me in the real world.

The only silver lining to growing up without any real substance is that it forces you to become a self-taught individual—you have to actually seek out knowledge, truly grasp it, and figure out how to apply it yourself.

Now, I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush here... certain kids might actually find these types of activities helpful for their development... while for everyone else, they won't. In my view, the only real way to get an actual education is through private academies, hiring personal tutors, or parents stepping in to do the heavy lifting themselves.

At the end of the day, I firmly believe the American public school system—from elementary all the way through some high schools—is little more than a machine for indoctrination. It teaches passive (or rather, non-existent) thinking and serves primarily to groom children for a life of mindless obedience as standard wage earners.

Nicholas King said:I suspect most parents either already possess those skills themselves or, frankly, it's a bit too late in their lives to start acquiring them by making their kid's school projects...

In that scenario—which covers most bases—it’s the parents who are at fault for underestimating their children and taking the path of least resistance, rather than the teachers, who generally assign age-appropriate work...

Ronald Sanchez7 said:In that scenario—which covers most bases—it’s the parents who are at fault for underestimating their children and taking the path of least resistance, rather than the teachers, who generally assign age-appropriate work...

Don't do this to me—it is strictly against the rules to post nothing but mindless laughter and trolling... 🙂

Nicholas King said:I suspect most parents either already possess those skills themselves or, frankly, it's a bit too late in their lives to start acquiring them by making their kid's school projects...

What people call "posters" aren't actually posters at all; they are just a chaotic mess of cutouts or, if you’re lucky, some independently written paragraphs glued onto a large sheet of paper. I imagine professional graphic designers and fine artists would probably clutch their heads in exasperation if they saw them.

When it comes to those oversized displays used in classrooms, I struggle to see much value in them unless the students are creating them during class time—ideally working in pairs or small groups after they've actually processed the material and done some preliminary work (like studying, digging through extra resources suggested by the teacher, or collaborating with an art instructor on visual layouts...).

For the more diligent and capable students, it offers a chance to dive deeper into a subject; for those who are notoriously hard to motivate, it might spark some engagement; for the slackers, perhaps some knowledge will finally stick through collaborative effort; and for everyone, it serves as a lesson in teamwork (and for some, a chance to practice leadership and coordination).
In the end, everyone gets a brief reprieve from the usual repetitive methods, they have a bit of fun, they might actually learn something, and most kids genuinely enjoy the process of creating something alongside their peers.

But of course, it's foolish to pass judgment on it. I only hope this kind of thing is becoming less common.

As for the "posters" being churned out at home, I agree with you that it's often too late for many parents to suddenly become experts—you can tell just by looking at the walls in certain schools. I don't know how one is supposed to grade such a thing, but I certainly know what I would say to a parent who ends up doing their child's homework, and I'd have plenty to say to a teacher assigning such pointless busywork.

Surely we aren't seeing this even in first grade?!