Grading Freshmen

Look, I don't know. I had computer science classes back in school, but we didn't actually have computers to use, so... honestly, it doesn't matter if I "took" the class or not. It’s like saying I learned to drive when we just sat in a parked car. For all intents and purposes, I didn't learn a thing. 😬

Jessica Chavez4 said:Look, I don't know. I had computer science classes back in school, but we didn't actually have computers to use, so... honestly, it doesn't matter if I "took" the class or not. It’s like saying I learned to drive when we just sat in a parked car. For all intents and purposes, I didn't learn a thing. 😬

When I said computer class, I meant actually getting hands-on with a PC.
I'm guessing you didn't just graduate high school yesterday, right? 🤷

What’s the connection there? All I hear about our schools is how much they're sliding. Besides, even back in my day, they weren't exactly top-tier.

Jessica Chavez4 said:What’s the connection there? All I hear about our schools is how much they're sliding. Besides, even back in my day, they weren't exactly top-tier.

It ties right into what I was thinking. 😉
If you graduated a while ago, I'm guessing it wasn't weird to pull an A in computer class without ever actually touching a PC.
But I figured nowadays, if you're taking a tech course, you're actually using the gear. At least a little bit, right?
Maybe some kids have one-on-one access and others don't, but I just assumed everyone was getting hands-on experience by now. You can't really have a computer class without the actual computers, can you?

I checked out the computer, but since the power was out at the school, staring at it didn't really get me much out of it. 🤣

The real issue is that this whole situation is a massive mess. Back when we were using computers in college, sure, we used them—but the way they were taught and the outdated software we were stuck with... that’s a whole different headache.

Look, kids definitely need to learn computer science, but it actually has to be taught in a way that makes sense for the real world.

Jessica Chavez4 said:I checked out the computer, but since the power was out at the school, staring at it didn't really get me much out of it. 🤣

The real issue is that this whole situation is a massive mess. Back when we were using computers in college, sure, we used them—but the way they were taught and the outdated software we were stuck with... that’s a whole different headache.

Look, kids definitely need to learn computer science, but it actually has to be taught in a way that makes sense for the real world.

Fair enough.
But... if you're saying my assumption is wrong, are you really claiming that kids in elementary school today aren't doing anything useful with computers? Like, is there zero value in modern tech education? (Let's set aside your own experience in school for a second)
Because if we follow that logic, we'd just have to scrap computer science entirely since we've moved on.

IT is my profession and my bread and butter. My day-to-day involves maintaining computer labs in local schools, but enough about credentials—let’s talk about what I’ve actually observed on the ground.

Do you want to know which teachers are the most vulnerable, or perhaps the ones most likely to lose credibility in the classroom?
It’s the computer science teachers.

To give you an idea, my own kids have been glued to a screen since they were old enough to sit up in a chair and nudge a mouse around, maybe around two years old. Aside from teaching them the very basics, I never really hovered over their shoulder or micromanaged their digital lives; I just let them go out and discover the world on their own terms. And because of that, I find myself constantly floored by the sheer level of technical intuition these kids possess...

So, now try to imagine a computer science teacher who, in most cases, has gone through standard training and is strictly bound to follow some rigid curriculum set by the Department of Education. Picture that person facing down dozens of little tech-savvy monsters who have been using computers since they were in diapers—kids who don't care one bit about a predetermined lesson plan because they rely entirely on their own intuitive, hands-on experience...

Do your kids know how to draft a formal complaint to the water department in Word, build a budget in Excel, or put together a PowerPoint presentation?
If they can, great. If not, then they’ve got plenty to learn from an "expert" IT professor like me.

rowdypanther12 said:Do your kids know how to draft a formal complaint to the water department in Word, build a budget in Excel, or put together a PowerPoint presentation?
If they can, great. If not, then they’ve got plenty to learn from an "expert" IT professor like me.

I suspect the real issue lies with how computer science curricula are structured—they just don't seem to focus on building the actual functional competencies you’re talking about.

Not to mention the fact that most high school graduates today can barely string together a coherent sentence, let alone write a persuasive letter to the city council...

Rachel Jones8 said:You really think so?
Even if the facilities suck and the teaching quality isn't always great—do you seriously think it's okay for an 18-year-old to graduate in this country without having taken a single computer science class? 😕

Even culinary students have computer science as a mandatory course in high school; I suppose they expect to one day manage refrigerators via an android app..

🤣 I find it somewhat ridiculous... I truly have nothing against computer science itself, but I do take issue with assigning PowerPoint presentations as homework to third graders in elementary school.

Rachel Jones8 said:When I said computer class, I meant actually getting hands-on with a PC.
I'm guessing you didn't just graduate high school yesterday, right? 🤷

My own relationship with computers really started on the job back when we first got them in '92. Honestly, I’d rather not even mention how we had maybe three machines shared between forty people back in the late eighties 😂—our school computer classes were almost laughable at the time.

And frankly, I don't miss those old classes. I consider myself tech-literate simply because I'm curious; I can handle Word, Excel, and PowerPoint at work, and I know how to convert video files and such... mostly because I actually take an interest in how things work.

fadedtrucker8 said:Even culinary students have computer science as a mandatory course in high school; I suppose they expect to one day manage refrigerators via an android app..

🤣 I find it somewhat ridiculous... I truly have nothing against computer science itself, but I do take issue with assigning PowerPoint presentations as homework to third graders in elementary school.

Honestly, I'm not totally sure what the deal is with schools lately... but here's what Google says about freshman year.
Just two hours of tech class in the first year, and that's it. If you didn't take electives back in middle school, you probably aren't learning much here.

Rachel Jones8 said:Honestly, I'm not totally sure what the deal is with schools lately... but here's what Google says about freshman year.
Just two hours of tech class in the first year, and that's it. If you didn't take electives back in middle school, you probably aren't learning much here.

And look, my son is training to be a chef, and he actually avoided taking computer science in middle school because it would have dragged down his GPA... he had a particularly strict teacher... yet now in high school, he has an A and knows more than his peers 🤷 simply because the current coursework is far too easy for him.

So, my son tells me they only get about three hours of computer science a week at his school—apparently, it’s just one two-hour group session and then everyone together once more per week.

fadedtrucker8 said:So, my son tells me they only get about three hours of computer science a week at his school—apparently, it’s just one two-hour group session and then everyone together once more per week.

Honestly, I don't think the total number of hours even matters—it's more about the quality of the instruction and what they're actually doing during those hours.

Nicholas King said:Honestly, I don't think the total number of hours even matters—it's more about the quality of the instruction and what they're actually doing during those hours.

The basics—Word, Excel, knowing how to handle computer hardware, and so on.

rowdypanther12 said:Do your kids know how to draft a formal complaint to the water department in Word, build a budget in Excel, or put together a PowerPoint presentation?
If they can, great. If not, then they’ve got plenty to learn from an "expert" IT professor like me.

Well, since you’re really putting me on the spot...

They definitely know their way around Word, and they’ve actually gotten quite good at formatting text properly. They tend to spend more of their time messing around with digital art tools—not just simple stuff in Paint, but much more sophisticated programs—and while PowerPoint and Excel haven't quite caught their interest yet, they can pretty much navigate anything on a computer that they want to do. If there's something they don't know, they just ask and figure it out as they go...

fadedtrucker8 said:So, my son tells me they only get about three hours of computer science a week at his school—apparently, it’s just one two-hour group session and then everyone together once more per week.

Finished first grade already?
Think they'll have them in the next three, too?
So, what kind of group are we talking about here? Like half a class?
Three hours a week for everyone?
One group for an hour, another for an hour, then everyone together for one more? Makes sense, right?
Did everyone really have three hours a week to spare?
I mean, if high school only gives us two hours a week... and only English and math get any more than that? Seems a little sketchy, doesn't it?

Nicholas King said:Honestly, I don't think the total number of hours even matters—it's more about the quality of the instruction and what they're actually doing during those hours.

Of course that matters, but honestly, isn't it also kind of a big deal whether you only get one year of computer science for two hours a week, or if you actually get four or eight years of it?

brightheron64 said:Well, since you’re really putting me on the spot...

They definitely know their way around Word, and they’ve actually gotten quite good at formatting text properly. They tend to spend more of their time messing around with digital art tools—not just simple stuff in Paint, but much more sophisticated programs—and while PowerPoint and Excel haven't quite caught their interest yet, they can pretty much navigate anything on a computer that they want to do. If there's something they don't know, they just ask and figure it out as they go...

Based on what was said earlier,

For example, my kids have been at a computer since they could sit up and move a mouse around, maybe around age 2. Aside from some basic stuff, I never hovered over them too much; I just let them explore the digital world on their own. Honestly, it blows my mind every time I see what those kids are actually capable of doing.

They can handle typing in Word and formatting text just fine. They love playing around with drawing apps—not just Paint, but much more advanced stuff. PowerPoint and Excel haven't caught their eye yet, but they can pretty much do whatever they want on a computer. If they hit a wall, they just ask and move right along....

Since they know so much and are totally self-taught...
...I'm curious (if you don't mind sharing) how old they are...to be playing with pro software while teaching themselves everything.
But I guess... they ask questions, so someone probably shows them the ropes... right?

brightheron64 said:IT is my profession and my bread and butter. My day-to-day involves maintaining computer labs in local schools, but enough about credentials—let’s talk about what I’ve actually observed on the ground.

Do you want to know which teachers are the most vulnerable, or perhaps the ones most likely to lose credibility in the classroom?
It’s the computer science teachers.

To give you an idea, my own kids have been glued to a screen since they were old enough to sit up in a chair and nudge a mouse around, maybe around two years old. Aside from teaching them the very basics, I never really hovered over their shoulder or micromanaged their digital lives; I just let them go out and discover the world on their own terms. And because of that, I find myself constantly floored by the sheer level of technical intuition these kids possess...

So, now try to imagine a computer science teacher who, in most cases, has gone through standard training and is strictly bound to follow some rigid curriculum set by the Department of Education. Picture that person facing down dozens of little tech-savvy monsters who have been using computers since they were in diapers—kids who don't care one bit about a predetermined lesson plan because they rely entirely on their own intuitive, hands-on experience...

Sure, there are plenty of tech-savvy kids that age, but there are others too. That’s why I think starting slow with the basics is perfectly fine.

In our school, computer science is a mandatory elective (an oxymoron, I know) starting in first grade. Along with the kids who are already pros, we have students who don't even own a computer at home.
My daughter falls into a third category. She has her own laptop, but she’s incredibly hesitant, distrustful, and lacks independence when navigating the digital world.

That said, I notice that as she learns more, that fear* of clicking the wrong thing or "breaking" the machine starts to fade.

To head off any questions 😬
I have no clue why she’s so afraid. God knows I’m constantly diving into all sorts of experiments and deep dives that usually end with me having to reinstall macOS, and 🙄 then the boys have to come save my skin.

Regardless, even though they take computer classes, they've never actually been given a task where a computer was truly essential.