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Grading Freshmen

Started by Michelle James13 · · 👁 25 views · 608 replies

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Participants Michelle James13amberranger9rowdypanther12Kate BennettMorgan Barnes3Carol ParkerTimothy Morris28Terry CampbellAustin Chavez5Andrew Clark8Kimberly NguyenJonathan Adams2darkmarlin4Susan JamesJames Perez54placidorca16Kate Cox2silverpuma542urbanbison70Robin Martin8Jason Ortiz5Austin Vaughn3David Palmer5briskstag8 …
frozenrider15 frozenrider15 Active Member
123 messages
joined Jan 2005
#461 ·
Karen Richardson3 said:Look, like we've already gone over this a million times, they *can* pass, they just end up with mediocre grades.

That’s really what parents get worked up about—if you look at the forums, it’s never about the kid getting an F; it’s about them getting a C or a B. 😱

And then, of course, we have this collective obsession with diagnosing everything as ADHD. Suddenly, every precious little one is just "restless" or a "tiny explorer" (who, let's be real, doesn't actually know the basics of anything 😬), and apparently, sitting down to read or study is just too boring for them, so we all have to just accept it. It’s not a lack of discipline or a parenting fail; no, they're just "spirited" 😍
.

So what does that make them, low income or not? 😁

Sure, there’s definitely a segment of the population that is living paycheck to paycheck.

But for everyone else, it’s perfectly valid to say, "I hate books, museums, and science; it’s all boring, I’d rather just head to the mall and buy a bunch of cheap junk."

But if that's your vibe, why on earth do you care if your kid becomes a straight-A student, goes to a top-tier university, and becomes a PhD?

You know why—it’s pure vanity. They just want to show off. They buy the latest iPhone to flex on the neighbors, and they push their kids to get perfect grades just so they can brag to the folks next door that their little genius is so bright.

Going back to the whole "studying with your child" thing:

A kid needs to learn how to learn. Not be taught how to memorize a specific answer or how to recite facts like a robot.

So, here’s how I think you actually handle things when working through schoolwork with a kid:
- fighting that urge to rush—you have to read it carefully, then read it again, tackle the problem, and double-check everything before moving on.
- once the kid repeats a sentence back to you, don't just let them move on—explain what it actually means. You aren't some recording device; use your own words to make sure it clicks.

That’s the real way to sit down with a child. It shouldn't be about racing to the finish line just so you can check a box; it’s about truly grasping the material. Read for comprehension, and if something doesn't make sense, go ask the teacher, ask a parent, or look it up online.
If a word is unfamiliar, stop and ask what it means instead of just repeating it blindly without a clue.

Honestly, ever since I became a parent, I've realized why so many people walk around thinking their kids are geniuses just because they can parrot off phrases they picked up somewhere without having the slightest idea what they're actually saying. It’s such a common trap to fall into.😁

edit: sweetheart 07, I was quoting you because I actually think the way you work with your kid is great, and I didn't want you thinking I was trying to say your methods were wrong.😁

In modern America, "having" matters more than "knowing." Knowledge itself carries zero currency here. In this society, you can be the smartest person in the room and still get absolutely screwed—pardon my French. You won't get far unless you know the right people, have the right connections, or possess a powerful "background." And no, I'm not being pessimistic. And no, this isn't even strictly on-topic, so excuse my tangent.
The prevailing trend is to get everything handed to you without breaking a sweat. We prize those who know how to navigate the system over those who actually put in the work to achieve something through sheer grit. We look down on parents who actually try—those who push their kids, show up to parent-teacher conferences, and hire tutors when needed. We pity them, thinking, "Poor souls, they're trying so hard, but their kid is just mediocre." Meanwhile, the "successful" ones boast, "My kid is so brilliant and independent, I don't even know what grade they're in! If they actually bothered to study, they'd rule the world... but hey, they're a wizard on their iPad." Then, they act shocked when the grades don't match the supposed "intelligence," blaming everyone and everything except their own child.
wanderingbadger44 wanderingbadger44 Active Member
215 messages
joined Feb 2023
#462 ·
Richard Perez3 said:Listen, for the stuff mentioned above, there wasn't some big school system—it was just us.

But where schools actually exist, who the hell am I supposed to be for them?

Plus, if the public school curriculum is designed so that any average kid can pass, yet your average kid is already struggling... I mean, how are they even teaching this "average" curriculum if the average parent has to work a full-time job just so their average kid can get through an average program?

Exactly, that’s the whole design: it's built so an average student can master an average amount of material with average effort and walk away with an average grade. In our system, that means a C.

But you have to wonder, how many average parents of average kids are actually satisfied with an average C grade?

Let's be real here. To most families, a C is basically a disaster.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#463 ·
The most effective strategy for ensuring a child achieves academic excellence is to provide them with a robust foundational education before they even step foot into a classroom, yet so many parents fail to recognize this crucial prerequisite. Instead, we witness a frantic, misguided struggle where parents attempt to force-feed curriculum at breakneck speeds to compensate for these early deficits, which inevitably breeds a deep-seated resentment toward learning itself. In these instances, the teacher is unfairly cast as the villain simply because they are tasked with managing the fallout of this systemic unpreparedness.

A child truly needs to have mastered basic penmanship, developed fine motor skills through drawing, established sound hygiene habits, and understood the fundamentals of social decorum; furthermore, they must possess an innate curiosity for expanding their knowledge, a baseline level of concentration, and the grit required to see a task through to its conclusion. They should be able to categorize objects based on various criteria and intuitively grasp similarities and differences. It is quite telling that children who are regularly read to by their parents often find themselves eager to learn their letters and begin reading independently. When engaged in thoughtful conversation, these well-prepared children can articulate complex ideas, such as classifying different species of trees or modes of transportation using complete, sophisticated sentences, all while possessing a firm grasp of numerical relationships. Ultimately, the quality of one's preschool years is absolutely paramount to future academic success, arguably carrying more weight than the subsequent years of elementary or middle school.
Justin Allen81 Justin Allen81 Member
31 messages
joined Apr 2010
#464 ·
Adam Evans62 said:Okay, you seriously need a reality check.
Do you live in a bubble where nobody actually has school-aged kids? Because what you're saying is wild.
You really think your kid is just going to walk into first grade and handle everything solo without any help? Good grief.😵Don't take this personally since we're strangers, but I genuinely can't believe someone is this out of touch with how things work.
Anyway, good luck with the start of the school year. Hope it goes well. And please, for the love of God, check back in a few months and tell us how your kid is supposedly managing every single assignment entirely by themselves.😉

I have no idea what exactly Summer said to offend you.🤔

She doesn't need to report back to you; I can tell you right now—my daughter isn't a first grader anymore, she's in third, and she’s been doing her schoolwork independently since day one. It never even crossed our minds to sit down and drill her or, heaven forbid, force her through required reading. I can't even imagine needing to do that.
She had her assigned reading just like everyone else, and she read and wrote it herself—math, science, everything. She pulls maybe two or three Bs a year, one C last year, and straight As otherwise. The idea of working with a child every single day at home feels like a parallel universe to me.🙏
There's no way. If smart, capable kids need daily tutoring after school, then clearly the issue lies with the teacher's ability to explain the material. And I agree—not everyone needs an A+, and the whole class shouldn't be getting perfect scores. Bs and Cs are perfectly fine grades. Like I said before, I've never once complained about her grades, regardless of what they were.

BTW, I don't get why everyone is blowing things out of proportion regarding required reading. If a kid sees their parents reading at home most of the time, they usually just get the urge to grab a book themselves. For us, reading assignments were never an issue—she'd read them herself and write the reports; even if she was only assigned a few stories from a book, she’d end up reading the whole thing anyway. She's interested. It's been that way since first grade.
Last month she finished the final Potter book; it took her about three weeks for the whole series, and for instance, part five is around 600-700 pages. She isn't some speed-reading freak; she just reads normally because she saw my husband and me reading, so she started asking to join the library. She even asks for books for her birthday.
She isn't some brainwashed kid, for goodness' sake.

So, a little 100-page poetry book in first grade... I don't see how that's such a massive deal.

The bigger issue for me is that they're teaching songs by Madonna in the American language textbook.🙏 But that's a whole different conversation.
Adam Evans62 Adam Evans62 Active Member
73 messages
joined Nov 2010
#465 ·
Look, it’s obvious you don't have a kid who fits the standard mold. She’s in that top 10-15% bracket—the highly intelligent kids you barely have to push at all. Plus, she’s clearly responsible and actually motivated. With most other kids—the 70-80% majority—you have to grind at home almost every single day if you want them to be straight-A students. That’s just how it works. If you don't care about that, fine by me, but they'll just end up being average students with those grades.
And honestly, kudos to her for loving books and already finishing HP. It just proves she’s lightyears ahead of her peers. Your whole argument about how working with a teacher isn't necessary if you aren't doing daily drills at home completely falls apart here, because we aren't talking about an average kid. You don't have an average kid. 😉
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#466 ·
Adam Evans62 said:Look, it’s obvious you don't have a kid who fits the standard mold. She’s in that top 10-15% bracket—the highly intelligent kids you barely have to push at all. Plus, she’s clearly responsible and actually motivated. With most other kids—the 70-80% majority—you have to grind at home almost every single day if you want them to be straight-A students. That’s just how it works. If you don't care about that, fine by me, but they'll just end up being average students with those grades.
And honestly, kudos to her for loving books and already finishing HP. It just proves she’s lightyears ahead of her peers. Your whole argument about how working with a teacher isn't necessary if you aren't doing daily drills at home completely falls apart here, because we aren't talking about an average kid. You don't have an average kid. 😉

I actually have a bit of a family saga to share here.

This mom I knew basically turned her kid into a personal construction project just because she couldn't handle the idea that her child wasn't naturally wired for intense academic grinding.

Back in the day—we're talking about thirty years ago—she was right there with him every night helping through elementary school. Then she kept up the same pressure all through high school. This woman was a total overachiever herself throughout her entire education, but her son? He took after his dad, who was a great guy, handsome, and hardworking, but definitely didn't have the temperament for a PhD life.

She eventually decided exactly which university he had to attend, but once he hit college, she couldn't hover over his shoulder anymore. After ten, maybe even twelve, years of pure misery, a mountain of lies, hair loss, and teetering on the edge of a mental breakdown, the son finally stood up and told her, "This isn't my life."

And get this, the story doesn't end there—he ended up enrolling in some part-time program for something else entirely, so the "project" is still ongoing even though the guy is forty-one now ☕.

Honestly, I just don't wrap my head around the logic of forcing a kid down a path that clearly doesn't fit them.
Because let's be real: if you're wealthy and powerful, it doesn't matter what the kid's grades look like; you can just slide them into a business school, and even if they can't finish, you can just buy them a management or PR degree and hand them a cushy corporate job that was essentially reserved for them since before they were born.

But if you aren't part of that elite crowd, what's the point of all that struggle? Where does it actually lead? To being a college student in your 40s?
Adam Evans62 Adam Evans62 Active Member
73 messages
joined Nov 2010
#467 ·
I couldn't agree more.
It’s a damn shame, and honestly, it's my kids who pay the price. Hardly any parents are willing to just admit their kid is "only" average...👎
Instead, they push them way too hard and lean on the school to inflate grades. They create this fake reality filled with nothing but unearned accolades, and it's completely unsustainable in the long run.
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#468 ·
Yin&Yang;5362785
What you just wrote actually shocked me. Are you implying that only those super intelligent kids (with some supposedly superior cognitive process!?) have a right to straight A's? That they just got lucky by birth or happen to have highly educated parents said:


Just teacher ego. Sometimes I honestly think teachers hang out with their students way too much, and they've gone soft.

Karen Richardson3 said:summer: honestly, I bet parents of kids in middle school feel the exact same way when they flip through those history textbooks—they just stare at them in disbelief, totally missing the fact that you basically have to boil an entire chapter down to five tiny bullet points just to write them in a notebook.

but let’s be real for a second about what’s actually happening here: everyone is convinced their kid is some kind of genius who absolutely deserves an A, when the reality is that every single classroom follows the same pattern—you’ve got a few superstars, a few kids who struggle, and then a whole bunch of average students.

so the real issue is that the complaining mostly comes from the parents whose kids are just sitting right in that average bracket. it feels like there's this massive push to force kids, who might have been perfectly happy heading toward a trade school or a specialized vocational program, straight into elite prep schools and four-year universities.

I mean, look at how things are going lately: the curriculum has never been more intense, you've got these exhausted parents staying up late helping their kids study, and then suddenly everyone is bragging about a record-breaking number of Honor Roll students.
basically, these high grades are being manufactured. if you have to sit there and coach a kid through every single step of their middle school work just to get them an A, then that kid isn't actually hitting those marks on their own, and frankly, they haven't earned that grade.

You just insulted everyone in trade schools and anyone without a degree. What, are universities and prep schools only for the elite now? Nobody smart finishes college just because they're smart; they do it because they're persistent. Why are these A's being forced? Because schools use grades for admissions, not actual knowledge. This works for the teachers too, because otherwise, more than half of them would be fired for incompetence.

Adam Evans62 said:I don't get why you're making such a HUGE deal out of this.
Why are you freaking out about elementary schoolers having stuff tied to schoolwork that requires help from a parent or an adult? I really don't get this massive resistance. 🤷

Most kids absolutely need help from their parents or family when they first start school. Some get independent fast, others will always need a little guidance... it's nothing unusual or new. ☕ In fact, it actually strengthens the bond between parent and child. Why not go outside and show them how nature works, or build a family tree together—because let's face it, a kid probably doesn't know their great-grandparents' names or birthdays. Or watch a documentary or look at photos of the Grand Canyon. There's a ton of stuff that needs to be done with an adult so they can eventually do it on their own. That includes reading required books in first grade—most kids NEED an adult to help them through that.
Sure, you could just throw the kid in the deep end and let them sink or swim—but don't cry when they drown...☕ (obviously, I'm exaggerating here)

Because school is for the students; parents finished their job a long time ago.

urbantinker8 said:Why so many exclamation points and question marks?🤷
I guess if you don't have kids in school yet, you should probably just wait until yours start and then you'll know firsthand what's just urban legend, what's just tall tales, and what the actual truth is.
There's probably no need to get this worked up over hearsay and second-hand stories.😉

Not at all, I suppose.

I agree.
I work in a school, about 90% of my friends work in schools, and plenty of kids in my own family go through the system... and nowhere except here on this forum (and in the media, to be honest) do I hear people complaining about how impossibly hard the curriculum is.🙂

I wonder why nobody talks about how ridiculously easy the questions on the SATs have become? And despite those questions being so simple, the passing threshold gets lowered to like 20-30% just so everyone can pass?
Is it our fault again, like we just didn't teach them well enough? 🙄

😁
I totally hear you!

🙂

No, it’s that solar eclipse today. It's all the eclipse's fault.

Karen Richardson3 said:You know, I’ve been wondering what the professors would say about this: how do American students actually stack up against the rest of the world in international competitions these days?

I mean, given how many brilliant, diamond-in-the-rough kids we have and just how intense our school curriculum is—which so many people seem to breeze through with top marks—I can't help but assume we're absolutely crushing it on the global stage, right?

Check this thread: PISA test results and the Shanghai leaf.
Every two years we slide further down the rankings. At this rate, we’ll be crawling under the feet of the Chinese soon. Our universities drop on the list every single year—though that's only because their metrics are garbage, not because our quality has dipped.

urbantinker8 said:Yeah, we're probably going to screw up everything else that still matters, too.
Why?

It's all because of this constant pressure to just cave to whatever the kids—and, you know, the parents—want.
We're heading straight toward the American model.🙂
The curriculum gets watered down, the coursework becomes increasingly ridiculous, there's this push to cut the number of subjects, which leads to trimming class hours, and textbooks get worse and worse in this desperate attempt to be "modern," while grading standards just keep sliding...
Right now, we're drowning in students getting perfect marks, but tomorrow, we'll just have a bunch of people who don't know anything.

International competitions...?🤣
I mean, why would anyone even bother showing up to something like that anymore?😕

And I absolutely agree with tanita.

All this spitting on incompetent Americans. They don't even have 400,000 unemployed. It won't matter anyway, because they're just ignorant and uneducated, unlike us Americans.
Justin Allen81 Justin Allen81 Member
31 messages
joined Apr 2010
#469 ·
Adam Evans62 said:Look, it’s obvious you don't have a kid who fits the standard mold. She’s in that top 10-15% bracket—the highly intelligent kids you barely have to push at all. Plus, she’s clearly responsible and actually motivated. With most other kids—the 70-80% majority—you have to grind at home almost every single day if you want them to be straight-A students. That’s just how it works. If you don't care about that, fine by me, but they'll just end up being average students with those grades.
And honestly, kudos to her for loving books and already finishing HP. It just proves she’s lightyears ahead of her peers. Your whole argument about how working with a teacher isn't necessary if you aren't doing daily drills at home completely falls apart here, because we aren't talking about an average kid. You don't have an average kid. 😉

Well, now you've backed me into a corner—how am I supposed to say "oh, she isn't actually gifted" now?🤣
She's smart, certainly, but I can't name a single parent I know who actually sits down to study with their child every single day—I've only heard stories from my mother, who thinks that kind of thing is commendable. Personally? Not so much. But look, I'm not saying you should expect straight A's from an average kid—you need to build work habits, true—but if a kid is already learning at school and finishing their homework during after-school programs, they really shouldn't be pushed that hard; a B or a C is plenty.

Karen Richardson3 said:I actually have a bit of a family saga to share here.

This mom I knew basically turned her kid into a personal construction project just because she couldn't handle the idea that her child wasn't naturally wired for intense academic grinding.

Back in the day—we're talking about thirty years ago—she was right there with him every night helping through elementary school. Then she kept up the same pressure all through high school. This woman was a total overachiever herself throughout her entire education, but her son? He took after his dad, who was a great guy, handsome, and hardworking, but definitely didn't have the temperament for a PhD life.

She eventually decided exactly which university he had to attend, but once he hit college, she couldn't hover over his shoulder anymore. After ten, maybe even twelve, years of pure misery, a mountain of lies, hair loss, and teetering on the edge of a mental breakdown, the son finally stood up and told her, "This isn't my life."

And get this, the story doesn't end there—he ended up enrolling in some part-time program for something else entirely, so the "project" is still ongoing even though the guy is forty-one now ☕.

Honestly, I just don't wrap my head around the logic of forcing a kid down a path that clearly doesn't fit them.
Because let's be real: if you're wealthy and powerful, it doesn't matter what the kid's grades look like; you can just slide them into a business school, and even if they can't finish, you can just buy them a management or PR degree and hand them a cushy corporate job that was essentially reserved for them since before they were born.

But if you aren't part of that elite crowd, what's the point of all that struggle? Where does it actually lead? To being a college student in your 40s?

I knew a guy who pulled straight A's, always. He studied for HOURS every single day through middle school, high school, and even college. He didn't go out; it was basically—if he wasn't awake, he was either in class or studying.
The story goes that since he was little, both parents would take him to work. At his mom's, he'd be in a warm office, but at his dad's, he'd freeze all day in the cold, only for them to lecture him: "If you don't study, you'll end up just like your father—is that what you want?"
The kid worked incredibly hard, but he just didn't have the capacity. Usually, professors would give him an A just because the poor guy tried so hard, but once he hit university... everything collapsed like a house of cards. If they had just let him be, maybe he would have chosen a less demanding major or something he actually enjoyed (instead of whatever "Mommy" does for a living), and things would have turned out differently.

Honestly, I don't even know where he is now. Maybe he struggled through and graduated, but that child had nothing—absolutely nothing—from childhood through his youth.
I bet his parents were so proud of those A's.
I'd be absolutely mortified if I did that to a child.
silvertinker6 silvertinker6 Member
14 messages
joined Sep 2017
#470 ·
Let’s be realistic: there are all sorts of kids, all sorts of parents, and of course, all sorts of teachers out there, right?
Exactly.
The bottom line is that while schools can extract a great deal from some students, they certainly can't do the same for everyone. So, dear parents, if your child isn't part of that specific group that naturally grasps and retains everything taught in class, you have the option to step in and assist them... or you don't, if you feel like it.
But if you choose inaction, please don't go around blaming everyone else. Just accept that this is simply how things are.

I personally kept a very close eye on my son's schoolwork through the third grade. He always handled his assignments independently, but whenever he hit a snag, he would come to me, and I was more than happy to help him work through it. He’s one of those types who listens intently during lectures and does the bare minimum at home. I consider myself lucky.😛
He’s in fifth grade now and we aren't facing any issues at all. Honestly, when I hear people complaining about how difficult school is or how much their kids are struggling, I just conclude that I got lucky because my son is exactly who he needs to be.
urbantinker8 urbantinker8 Regular
759 messages
joined Jan 2023
#471 ·
nimblelynx7 said:You just insulted everyone in trade schools and anyone without a degree. What, are universities and prep schools only for the elite now? Nobody smart finishes college just because they're smart; they do it because they're persistent. Why are these A's being forced? Because schools use grades for admissions, not actual knowledge. This works for the teachers too, because otherwise, more than half of them would be fired for incompetence.

Because school is for the students; parents finished their job a long time ago.

No, it’s that solar eclipse today. It's all the eclipse's fault.

Check this thread: PISA test results and the Shanghai leaf.
Every two years we slide further down the rankings. At this rate, we’ll be crawling under the feet of the Chinese soon. Our universities drop on the list every single year—though that's only because their metrics are garbage, not because our quality has dipped.

All this spitting on incompetent Americans. They don't even have 400,000 unemployed. It won't matter anyway, because they're just ignorant and uneducated, unlike us Americans.

Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#472 ·
nimblelynx7 said:You just insulted everyone in trade schools and anyone without a degree. What, are universities and prep schools only for the elite now? Nobody smart finishes college just because they're smart; they do it because they're persistent. Why are these A's being forced? Because schools use grades for admissions, not actual knowledge. This works for the teachers too, because otherwise, more than half of them would be fired for incompetence.

Because school is for the students; parents finished their job a long time ago.

No, it’s that solar eclipse today. It's all the eclipse's fault.

Check this thread: PISA test results and the Shanghai leaf.
Every two years we slide further down the rankings. At this rate, we’ll be crawling under the feet of the Chinese soon. Our universities drop on the list every single year—though that's only because their metrics are garbage, not because our quality has dipped.

All this spitting on incompetent Americans. They don't even have 400,000 unemployed. It won't matter anyway, because they're just ignorant and uneducated, unlike us Americans.

Look, first off, since this is an online forum, I have to generalize things a bit to make a point.

Secondly, I don’t see how it’s insulting to point out that a lot of parents today are basically forcing their kids into high-end prep schools even when those kids clearly aren't grasping the basics in middle school. You need that foundation because high school is a massive step up, and then there's the whole mountain of college ahead of them.

That doesn't mean kids in vocational programs aren't just as bright or capable as anyone else; plenty of them choose that path for perfectly valid reasons.

And by the way, I’m not saying one career is better than another. It’s actually the parents who look down on trades that are doing the insulting—they're the ones pushing the "elite" academic track regardless of whether it actually makes sense for the kid.

If I’m judging anyone, it’s the kids who breeze through school with their parents essentially doing all the heavy lifting, only to end up with some generic business degree that’s basically useless in the real world once you realize they haven't actually learned anything of value.
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#473 ·
urbantinker8 said:

Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏
Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏
There’s no irony here. If I wanted irony, I’d hear it from my boss while he hands me my walking papers because I had the nerve to tell him I can't do everything solo—that clients need to actually cooperate with me too. You think you have a different perspective just because you work in the public school system? You're dead wrong.

First off, I’d scrap high schools entirely. Four years of wasted time with little to no payoff. In a setup like this, I don't think anyone should be enrolling in prep schools, let alone the self-proclaimed "elite" or those desperate to be part of it.
wanderingbadger44 wanderingbadger44 Active Member
215 messages
joined Feb 2023
#474 ·
nimblelynx7 said:Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏

There’s no irony here. If I wanted irony, I’d hear it from my boss while he hands me my walking papers because I had the nerve to tell him I can't do everything solo—that clients need to actually cooperate with me too. You think you have a different perspective just because you work in the public school system? You're dead wrong.

First off, I’d scrap high schools entirely. Four years of wasted time with little to no payoff. In a setup like this, I don't think anyone should be enrolling in prep schools, let alone the self-proclaimed "elite" or those desperate to be part of it.
I’m just sitting here waiting for someone like a local esthetician to get fired because she told a client that she can't fix everything by herself and that they actually need to see a dermatologist or follow a skincare routine at home to see results. ☕
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#475 ·
I remember one evening back when I was living in Seattle, just sitting on my porch as the sun started to dip behind the mountains. There’s something about that transition from dusk to total darkness that always feels like a reset button for me. It’s quiet, it’s still, and it gives you a second to actually breathe after a long day of running around. Does anyone else find that specific time of night particularly peaceful, or am I just a sucker for a good sunset? kaže:
It all sounds wonderful and beautiful in theory, but if you don’t have a first grader yet, I think you might hit a bit of a reality check once they actually start school. You quickly realize how much is expected of you as a parent just to keep up with everything your child needs for their classes and daily school life. It can be quite a whirlwind!
I think it all really comes down to what you and your child actually expect from school. It makes me wonder—what are your expectations when it comes to grades? Do you even have any specific goals in mind? For instance, would you be happy with just a passing average if it meant you didn't have to spend every evening at the kitchen table helping them tackle homework? Personally, I’m not obsessed with straight A's. They aren't a priority for me, and honestly, given my child's personality, I know exactly what kind of challenges we’re going to face once they start their school years. That being said, I'm definitely not planning on sitting on the sidelines. If things get tough, I’ll be right there working alongside them to help them grasp the material. My goal isn't just to chase high marks; I just want to make sure they actually understand what they're learning so they feel confident and capable.

I’m honestly not stressing about my grades this time around. I've realized that focusing on the actual learning is way more important than just chasing a specific number on a transcript.
Honestly, I don't really feel the need to bring it up. Whether I'm grabbing coffee with friends, hanging out on the forums, or just sitting at my desk at work, I don't feel any pressure to brag about it. It’s just not something I feel the need to broadcast.
I really want to get to a place where I’m genuinely proud of what she achieves on her own terms, rather than just measuring her success against my own expectations. To be honest, I think part of my struggle is that I don't even have a clear vision of what I actually want for her myself. It's a bit of a learning process for me!
At the end of the day, my biggest priority is just seeing her healthy, happy, and genuinely content. I want her to actually look forward to heading off to school every morning. It doesn't have to be this huge, over-the-top excitement, but I definitely don't want her waking up with that knot in her stomach because she's dreading a big exam, a certain teacher, or some drama with her classmates.
I really believe people need a genuine look at what they actually know versus where they’re still struggling. It should be about fair, honest feedback—something like, "You’ve totally mastered this concept, but you still need to practice this specific skill or dive deeper into this topic." We need to move away from those vague, unhelpful comments like "you just need to try harder for an A" or giving someone a passing grade just to boost their morale or acknowledge their effort. Real progress comes from knowing exactly where you stand.
Honestly, I feel like this falls more on the teachers than the parents. Of course we notice things about our kids—that’s just part of being a parent. We see if they're reading faster, if their handwriting is getting a bit messy, or if they're still relying on their fingers for basic addition. Those are everyday observations you make at home regardless of school. But when it comes to actually mastering the curriculum and keeping up with what’s being taught in the classroom? In my book, that responsibility lies squarely with the teacher.

I’ve been thinking about how much I love those quiet moments right as the sun dips below the horizon. There's something so peaceful about that transition from a busy day to a calm evening. It always reminds me of those summer nights growing up in the suburbs, just sitting on the porch watching the fireflies start to come out. It’s such a great time to just decompress and reset for tomorrow. kaže:
I feel like kids today are missing out on those hands-on experiences that used to be such a staple when we were heading off to school. I remember back in my day, we weren't just staring at screens; we actually got to engage with the world in ways that felt much more tangible. It’s a bit of a bummer to see that practical, real-world connection fading away.

You know, when kids start school, they hit this massive hurdle where you realize just how much every single child differs from the next. Whether it’s social skills, emotional maturity, or how they handle academics, those individual gaps are huge. It’s one of those things that becomes incredibly obvious once they step into a classroom for the first time.
And honestly, what some people seem to miss is that this responsibility falls squarely on the parents, not the kids. Of course, it feels a bit naive to expect a parent to suddenly step up and take charge overnight if they haven't been doing so already—unless there’s a direct intervention. Ideally, you'd want the school to work alongside both the parent and the child to bridge that gap. And if things look like actual neglect? That's when Child Protective Services needs to get involved to ensure everyone stays safe.
It really comes down to all that extra stuff parents have to tackle alongside schoolwork—assuming they even have the energy or the headspace left at the end of the day!
I think we might be looking at this a little differently. Based on what my kids are already picking up at home, I don't really think Summer, myself, or the other moms who aren't interested in doing schoolwork with our kids fall into that specific category. It seems pretty clear to us—and the kids definitely seem to get it too—that once they head back to school, they’re going to be hit with all those specific concepts you mentioned.

Going back to the main point here... I honestly don't see the point in grading so much of the first-grade curriculum (and really, most of the lower elementary grades, too).
A kid either knows how to read or they don't.
They can do addition or subtraction, or they can't.
They know the days of the week, or they don't.
They know the parts of the day, or they don't.
They know their multiplication tables, or they don't.
Don't give me that talk about needing to grade everything on an A through F scale.
Sure, maybe they hadn't mastered it by February, but they got there by May—and once they've learned it, they know it for life.
What good does a letter grade actually do them? 😕

Of course, we should encourage them to do better or work faster. We definitely need to point out mistakes, help them understand why they’re making them, and see how frequent they are—like, are they rushing, are they just moving too slowly, or are they struggling to spot errors? I'm certain that any assignment can be improved if we provide clear guidance on what needs work, the best way to tackle it, and who might be able to step in and help.
But we shouldn't be turning the classroom into a competition over who gets an A versus a B, or trying to motivate kids using "lower" grades as a threat.
Kids who are just two points shy of an A might be missing that mark for totally different reasons. In one standardized test or a quick mid-term, all that effort and hard work can just vanish. That matters, especially for those little ones just starting out.
It feels to me like we spend way too much energy arguing over grades and not nearly enough focusing on a child's strengths, their weaknesses, and what they still need to learn. What is the actual purpose of all this studying if we aren't looking at the bigger picture of why we need this knowledge?
To be fair, there are plenty of teachers out there who provide amazing feedback alongside a grade, but there are just as many who simply hand out a letter and call it a day.
In those cases, progress is measured strictly by numbers.
urbantinker8 urbantinker8 Regular
759 messages
joined Jan 2023
#476 ·
nimblelynx7 said:Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏

There’s no irony here. If I wanted irony, I’d hear it from my boss while he hands me my walking papers because I had the nerve to tell him I can't do everything solo—that clients need to actually cooperate with me too. You think you have a different perspective just because you work in the public school system? You're dead wrong.

First off, I’d scrap high schools entirely. Four years of wasted time with little to no payoff. In a setup like this, I don't think anyone should be enrolling in prep schools, let alone the self-proclaimed "elite" or those desperate to be part of it.
I mean, besides the fact that I actually work in the school system, I also happen to have two kids of my own, and I don't really feel like once they hit seven years old, my part of the "job" is finished—like I can just sort of hand them over to a teacher and expect them to handle all the upbringing and schooling entirely on their own.🙂
urbantinker8 urbantinker8 Regular
759 messages
joined Jan 2023
#477 ·
Susan James said:
I remember one evening back when I was living in Seattle, just sitting on my porch as the sun started to dip behind the mountains. There’s something about that transition from dusk to total darkness that always feels like a reset button for me. It’s quiet, it’s still, and it gives you a second to actually breathe after a long day of running around. Does anyone else find that specific time of night particularly peaceful, or am I just a sucker for a good sunset? kaže:
It all sounds wonderful and beautiful in theory, but if you don’t have a first grader yet, I think you might hit a bit of a reality check once they actually start school. You quickly realize how much is expected of you as a parent just to keep up with everything your child needs for their classes and daily school life. It can be quite a whirlwind!
I think it all really comes down to what you and your child actually expect from school. It makes me wonder—what are your expectations when it comes to grades? Do you even have any specific goals in mind? For instance, would you be happy with just a passing average if it meant you didn't have to spend every evening at the kitchen table helping them tackle homework? Personally, I’m not obsessed with straight A's. They aren't a priority for me, and honestly, given my child's personality, I know exactly what kind of challenges we’re going to face once they start their school years. That being said, I'm definitely not planning on sitting on the sidelines. If things get tough, I’ll be right there working alongside them to help them grasp the material. My goal isn't just to chase high marks; I just want to make sure they actually understand what they're learning so they feel confident and capable.

I’m honestly not stressing about my grades this time around. I've realized that focusing on the actual learning is way more important than just chasing a specific number on a transcript.
Honestly, I don't really feel the need to bring it up. Whether I'm grabbing coffee with friends, hanging out on the forums, or just sitting at my desk at work, I don't feel any pressure to brag about it. It’s just not something I feel the need to broadcast.
I really want to get to a place where I’m genuinely proud of what she achieves on her own terms, rather than just measuring her success against my own expectations. To be honest, I think part of my struggle is that I don't even have a clear vision of what I actually want for her myself. It's a bit of a learning process for me!
At the end of the day, my biggest priority is just seeing her healthy, happy, and genuinely content. I want her to actually look forward to heading off to school every morning. It doesn't have to be this huge, over-the-top excitement, but I definitely don't want her waking up with that knot in her stomach because she's dreading a big exam, a certain teacher, or some drama with her classmates.
I really believe people need a genuine look at what they actually know versus where they’re still struggling. It should be about fair, honest feedback—something like, "You’ve totally mastered this concept, but you still need to practice this specific skill or dive deeper into this topic." We need to move away from those vague, unhelpful comments like "you just need to try harder for an A" or giving someone a passing grade just to boost their morale or acknowledge their effort. Real progress comes from knowing exactly where you stand.
Honestly, I feel like this falls more on the teachers than the parents. Of course we notice things about our kids—that’s just part of being a parent. We see if they're reading faster, if their handwriting is getting a bit messy, or if they're still relying on their fingers for basic addition. Those are everyday observations you make at home regardless of school. But when it comes to actually mastering the curriculum and keeping up with what’s being taught in the classroom? In my book, that responsibility lies squarely with the teacher.

I’ve been thinking about how much I love those quiet moments right as the sun dips below the horizon. There's something so peaceful about that transition from a busy day to a calm evening. It always reminds me of those summer nights growing up in the suburbs, just sitting on the porch watching the fireflies start to come out. It’s such a great time to just decompress and reset for tomorrow. kaže:
I feel like kids today are missing out on those hands-on experiences that used to be such a staple when we were heading off to school. I remember back in my day, we weren't just staring at screens; we actually got to engage with the world in ways that felt much more tangible. It’s a bit of a bummer to see that practical, real-world connection fading away.

You know, when kids start school, they hit this massive hurdle where you realize just how much every single child differs from the next. Whether it’s social skills, emotional maturity, or how they handle academics, those individual gaps are huge. It’s one of those things that becomes incredibly obvious once they step into a classroom for the first time.
And honestly, what some people seem to miss is that this responsibility falls squarely on the parents, not the kids. Of course, it feels a bit naive to expect a parent to suddenly step up and take charge overnight if they haven't been doing so already—unless there’s a direct intervention. Ideally, you'd want the school to work alongside both the parent and the child to bridge that gap. And if things look like actual neglect? That's when Child Protective Services needs to get involved to ensure everyone stays safe.
It really comes down to all that extra stuff parents have to tackle alongside schoolwork—assuming they even have the energy or the headspace left at the end of the day!
I think we might be looking at this a little differently. Based on what my kids are already picking up at home, I don't really think Summer, myself, or the other moms who aren't interested in doing schoolwork with our kids fall into that specific category. It seems pretty clear to us—and the kids definitely seem to get it too—that once they head back to school, they’re going to be hit with all those specific concepts you mentioned.

Going back to the main point here... I honestly don't see the point in grading so much of the first-grade curriculum (and really, most of the lower elementary grades, too).
A kid either knows how to read or they don't.
They can do addition or subtraction, or they can't.
They know the days of the week, or they don't.
They know the parts of the day, or they don't.
They know their multiplication tables, or they don't.
Don't give me that talk about needing to grade everything on an A through F scale.
Sure, maybe they hadn't mastered it by February, but they got there by May—and once they've learned it, they know it for life.
What good does a letter grade actually do them? 😕

Of course, we should encourage them to do better or work faster. We definitely need to point out mistakes, help them understand why they’re making them, and see how frequent they are—like, are they rushing, are they just moving too slowly, or are they struggling to spot errors? I'm certain that any assignment can be improved if we provide clear guidance on what needs work, the best way to tackle it, and who might be able to step in and help.
But we shouldn't be turning the classroom into a competition over who gets an A versus a B, or trying to motivate kids using "lower" grades as a threat.
Kids who are just two points shy of an A might be missing that mark for totally different reasons. In one standardized test or a quick mid-term, all that effort and hard work can just vanish. That matters, especially for those little ones just starting out.
It feels to me like we spend way too much energy arguing over grades and not nearly enough focusing on a child's strengths, their weaknesses, and what they still need to learn. What is the actual purpose of all this studying if we aren't looking at the bigger picture of why we need this knowledge?
To be fair, there are plenty of teachers out there who provide amazing feedback alongside a grade, but there are just as many who simply hand out a letter and call it a day.
In those cases, progress is measured strictly by numbers.

You do realize you're kind of in the minority here, right?

And as for this whole idea of descriptive grading—if my memory serves me correctly, back in those golden days of the 80s, people didn't exactly fail out of school because of a lack of written commentary.
I mean, we probably don't need to add more bureaucracy to the mix, especially when we already have maybe three kids in the entire country failing a grade every year.🤦

You could always provide detailed, descriptive feedback alongside a standard numerical grade, couldn't you? It seems like a reasonable compromise.

But if we went ahead and scrapped numerical grading entirely, both here and in the current system, I imagine things would just descend into total chaos.
Andrew Doyle Andrew Doyle Regular
268 messages
joined Aug 2011
#478 ·
Susan Nguyen54 said:I wanted to pick the brains of the experts here (since you're all gathered :-) ). What should I make of a kid who nails the heavy lifting but constantly trips up on the simple stuff? Yesterday, I was messaging Klokanica about her work, and she missed four problems. The "meat and potatoes" math was perfect, but she messed up where she had to flip a shape to compare it, count triangles, or count squares. Basically, whenever it required visual recognition, she stumbled. She’s pulling almost straight A's in math and catches on really fast in class. Before any tests, we review together—I don't give her extra practice at home unless there's an upcoming exam—but whatever homework she does, she gets basically 100% right.
On her last assignment—not a test, but still graded—she got a C. Even though her calculations were spot on for the last two problems, she mixed up the terminology for multiplication and division. She actually mastered those concepts practically overnight, but then on the test, she swapped them; she called the division terms the multiplication ones and vice versa. She tells me she just gets confused; she’ll look at one question and accidentally write the answer for another. Honestly, sometimes her grades drive me crazy because I see exactly where she slips up. On the other hand, I'm happy because I know she actually understands the material. She flew through the first three multi-step problems without a single mistake. During the first semester, she got a B on a test. We didn't really prep for that one since topics like length and lines always felt more like a joke to her than serious math, but she still lost points because she forgot to use a dash between two letters representing length, and then used lowercase instead of uppercase somewhere else. The rest of the test was flawless, but those tiny errors dragged her down. At the end of the day, I just care that she knows the material, but it's frustrating when she keeps making these silly little mistakes...

Concentration? It’s just one of those days where they lose their focus, mix up the basic steps, and fail to think through what they're doing. They end up overcomplicating things even when they clearly grasp the concept—they just stumble over the trivialities. Honestly, I deal with this at my own house. I've already reached an agreement with his teacher to have him meet with the school counselor periodically to work specifically on his focus. I'm confident we'll get this sorted out eventually. 🙂

Susan Nguyen54 said:I wanted to pick the brains of the experts here (since you're all gathered :-) ). What should I make of a kid who nails the heavy lifting but constantly trips up on the simple stuff? Yesterday, I was messaging Klokanica about her work, and she missed four problems. The "meat and potatoes" math was perfect, but she messed up where she had to flip a shape to compare it, count triangles, or count squares. Basically, whenever it required visual recognition, she stumbled. She’s pulling almost straight A's in math and catches on really fast in class. Before any tests, we review together—I don't give her extra practice at home unless there's an upcoming exam—but whatever homework she does, she gets basically 100% right.
On her last assignment—not a test, but still graded—she got a C. Even though her calculations were spot on for the last two problems, she mixed up the terminology for multiplication and division. She actually mastered those concepts practically overnight, but then on the test, she swapped them; she called the division terms the multiplication ones and vice versa. She tells me she just gets confused; she’ll look at one question and accidentally write the answer for another. Honestly, sometimes her grades drive me crazy because I see exactly where she slips up. On the other hand, I'm happy because I know she actually understands the material. She flew through the first three multi-step problems without a single mistake. During the first semester, she got a B on a test. We didn't really prep for that one since topics like length and lines always felt more like a joke to her than serious math, but she still lost points because she forgot to use a dash between two letters representing length, and then used lowercase instead of uppercase somewhere else. The rest of the test was flawless, but those tiny errors dragged her down. At the end of the day, I just care that she knows the material, but it's frustrating when she keeps making these silly little mistakes...

I highly doubt it. Many much more advanced nations than ours—nations whose students consistently outperform ours on standardized testing—don't even use traditional grading systems in the lower elementary grades.
Andrew Doyle Andrew Doyle Regular
268 messages
joined Aug 2011
#479 ·
urbantinker8 said:I mean, besides the fact that I actually work in the school system, I also happen to have two kids of my own, and I don't really feel like once they hit seven years old, my part of the "job" is finished—like I can just sort of hand them over to a teacher and expect them to handle all the upbringing and schooling entirely on their own.🙂

Look, the role of an elementary school teacher is incredibly vital; they carry a massive burden of responsibility on their shoulders. If—and when—that teacher manages to get the classroom stabilized, establishes genuine authority, fosters a productive atmosphere within that young group, and teaches them the social dynamics and rules of the room, then that is truly commendable work. It’s foundational for when those kids move up to middle school next year.
But to suggest that the teacher should be doing the parents' job—handling every single aspect of both moral upbringing and academic instruction... good grief. A teacher covers grades one through four, but we are parents for life. This isn't about being hands-off, but in my view, the primary responsibility of parenting remains firmly with the parents.

The reality is that things are incredibly difficult for everyone right now—teachers, parents, and children alike. These are trying times, and frankly, there’s no sign of things improving anytime soon. I know plenty of parents who simply lack the time or the mental bandwidth; they are stuck in survival mode. When a parent walks through the door at 7:00 PM after a grueling shift, they can only do so much. They make sure the kid is fed, ensure they have clean clothes for tomorrow, and figure out dinner. That’s it. There isn't always time to sit down for hours coaching a child through creative thinking, helping them structure a story, and then drilling them on grammar and spelling.

All of us who have children, or work with them, bear a responsibility for their development. We do the absolute best we can in this chaotic world, and we should strive to stop looking for scapegoats elsewhere. Children grow up far too quickly anyway... and when they do, both as educators and as parents, we will finally see exactly where we stood and how many mistakes we made.😉
urbantinker8 urbantinker8 Regular
759 messages
joined Jan 2023
#480 ·
Andrew Doyle said:Concentration? It’s just one of those days where they lose their focus, mix up the basic steps, and fail to think through what they're doing. They end up overcomplicating things even when they clearly grasp the concept—they just stumble over the trivialities. Honestly, I deal with this at my own house. I've already reached an agreement with his teacher to have him meet with the school counselor periodically to work specifically on his focus. I'm confident we'll get this sorted out eventually. 🙂

I highly doubt it. Many much more advanced nations than ours—nations whose students consistently outperform ours on standardized testing—don't even use traditional grading systems in the lower elementary grades.

That’s kind of why I decided to write today on this forum.
I guess we are still lightyears away from those "super advanced countries"—in just about every sense, but especially when you consider the general mindset.😉

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