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Grading Freshmen

Started by Michelle James13 · · 👁 26 views · 608 replies

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Participants Michelle James13amberranger9rowdypanther12Kate BennettMorgan Barnes3Carol ParkerTimothy Morris28Terry CampbellAustin Chavez5Andrew Clark8Kimberly NguyenJonathan Adams2darkmarlin4Susan JamesJames Perez54placidorca16Kate Cox2silverpuma542urbanbison70Robin Martin8Jason Ortiz5Austin Vaughn3David Palmer5briskstag8 …
Terry Campbell Terry Campbell Member
18 messages
joined Mar 2011
#101 ·
Jason Ortiz5 said:And then I end up with this absolute terror of a woman—my mother-in-law! There’s an entire generation of neighborhood kids who remember her as "that one lady who's always perpetually pissed off." 😲

(I actually heard people saying that, totally unaware that I was talking about my own MIL! 🤣)

🤣

I got a little heated with my therapist—didn't really see eye to eye with her take—but whatever. It all worked out fine, honestly; the shrink isn't half bad and actually managed to get him in line, so things are good now.
James Perez54 James Perez54 Active Member
67 messages
joined Oct 2011
#102 ·
David Palmer5 said:I’m just sharing what life was actually like for me and my friends.
See, we lived in Chicago, and my parents were highly educated. We talked about everything under the sun. They made sure to take me to the theater, movies, and concerts, and we actually spent quality time together.
Of course, life in the countryside was tougher, and things were different there.
I'm simply describing my own upbringing and what I saw growing up with my peers.
It feels to me like parents today just don't have the same bandwidth. Between different work schedules and long hours, even when they *are* home, that precious family time often gets swallowed up by everyone staring at a TV or playing video games.

And as for whether the curriculum was as deep as it is now? It definitely was.
We had to master our history and fundamentals.
If we had to memorize every single song or poem, we did it.
We even had classes on Saturdays sometimes.
And yeah, getting on the Honor Roll was way harder back then than it is today.
But hey, what can I do about it? That's just how it was.

I am 68 years old, and since I have a son in 4th grade, I am in a position to compare.

My school curriculum was more comprehensive, more fundamental, and more rigorous, yet children somehow mastered it more easily.
Perhaps because they weren't staring at TVs, and computers didn't exist.😛
There wasn't this hyper-production of honor students like there is today, but in exchange, many "good" students back then were far superior in knowledge compared to today's honor roll kids.

When my grandson (my mother's little honor student 😁) starts rolling his eyes because, say, math is too hard, I pull out my old 1st-grade textbook (thank God for my meticulous mother who kept it safe 🙏) and find him a few problems—just enough to comfort him by showing him how it was for me and his father...😁

If there are still any skeptics like > who believe today's material is harder, here is one little problem from my era (1st grade):

Alright: Write 3 numbers using the digit "1" four times, and place 2 mathematical operators between them so that the result equals 13.

If you need more...😉
Joshua Howard18 Joshua Howard18 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Feb 2010
#103 ·
Austin Chavez5 said:This is exactly what our education system has turned into. Seriously parents, we need to step up, sit down, and actually study alongside our kids—and I don't just mean during first grade, but throughout their entire schooling 🤷. Was it ever like this before?! Most kids today can't even wrap their heads around the curriculum on their own. Honestly, I know plenty of straight-A students who are constantly stuck in tutoring sessions for half their subjects

Oh, please... once your kid hits high school, you aren't exactly going to be sitting right next to them while they work...
btw.... I took care of my own grades back in the day...
First grade was a total disaster... I absolutely hated school.... but eventually, I grew to love it!!! Now I'm in college.... planning on hitting more grad schools later... I live for studying.... never had any issues...
The whole point is getting the kid to realize they're learning for themselves.... When I'd come home beaming because I got an A, my dad would just say BRAVO!!! And that was it.... He wasn't exactly throwing a party, and I realized why later—it's because those were *my* grades. I wasn't collecting them to please my parents; I was doing it to actually build a future.... That's how I cruised through middle school...
In high school, thank God, I had amazing teachers who actually respected me (just like any other student) and truly put in the effort to teach us... Naturally, I took full advantage of that... Kids in Africa are out there struggling just to get into a classroom, and I'm getting this opportunity handed to me on a silver platter.... So yeah, of course I'm gonna make it count!!!! It got to the point where I was the one talking to my professors about my grades; my mom and dad never even had to show up at the school.... Though, it's not exactly a glowing review—my homeroom teacher didn't even meet my parents until graduation night LOL..... He never had any reason to call them in....
And why? Because my folks taught me from day one that I'm studying for myself—not for them, not because I'm bored, and not because I'm being nagged. I'm doing it because one day I'll have to support myself through my own hard work.... And let's be real, people respect you way more and pay you better if you've got a degree in your pocket....
That's what you tell the older kids!!! Teach them to be independent, to do their own homework, and to face the consequences of their own effort or lack thereof... Okay—that applies to the more mature ones (like 7th or 8th graders). I highly doubt a kid under 9 is going to grasp why multiplication tables matter... but one day, and for the rest of their lives, it's gonna be huge...
One last thing!!! To be honest, I'm not a fan of the grading system either. It would be way better if they used letter grades instead (like they do in America 😛). And for the love of God, teachers need to stop using red pens; it's so demoralizing for kids
Joshua Howard18 Joshua Howard18 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Feb 2010
#104 ·
James Perez54 said:I am 68 years old, and since I have a son in 4th grade, I am in a position to compare.

My school curriculum was more comprehensive, more fundamental, and more rigorous, yet children somehow mastered it more easily.
Perhaps because they weren't staring at TVs, and computers didn't exist.😛
There wasn't this hyper-production of honor students like there is today, but in exchange, many "good" students back then were far superior in knowledge compared to today's honor roll kids.

When my grandson (my mother's little honor student 😁) starts rolling his eyes because, say, math is too hard, I pull out my old 1st-grade textbook (thank God for my meticulous mother who kept it safe 🙏) and find him a few problems—just enough to comfort him by showing him how it was for me and his father...😁

If there are still any skeptics like > who believe today's material is harder, here is one little problem from my era (1st grade):

Alright: Write 3 numbers using the digit "1" four times, and place 2 mathematical operators between them so that the result equals 13.

If you need more...😉

11+1+1=13 😉
Austin Chavez5 Austin Chavez5 Member
40 messages
joined Feb 2010
#105 ·
Joshua Howard18 said:Oh, please... once your kid hits high school, you aren't exactly going to be sitting right next to them while they work...
btw.... I took care of my own grades back in the day...
First grade was a total disaster... I absolutely hated school.... but eventually, I grew to love it!!! Now I'm in college.... planning on hitting more grad schools later... I live for studying.... never had any issues...
The whole point is getting the kid to realize they're learning for themselves.... When I'd come home beaming because I got an A, my dad would just say BRAVO!!! And that was it.... He wasn't exactly throwing a party, and I realized why later—it's because those were *my* grades. I wasn't collecting them to please my parents; I was doing it to actually build a future.... That's how I cruised through middle school...
In high school, thank God, I had amazing teachers who actually respected me (just like any other student) and truly put in the effort to teach us... Naturally, I took full advantage of that... Kids in Africa are out there struggling just to get into a classroom, and I'm getting this opportunity handed to me on a silver platter.... So yeah, of course I'm gonna make it count!!!! It got to the point where I was the one talking to my professors about my grades; my mom and dad never even had to show up at the school.... Though, it's not exactly a glowing review—my homeroom teacher didn't even meet my parents until graduation night LOL..... He never had any reason to call them in....
And why? Because my folks taught me from day one that I'm studying for myself—not for them, not because I'm bored, and not because I'm being nagged. I'm doing it because one day I'll have to support myself through my own hard work.... And let's be real, people respect you way more and pay you better if you've got a degree in your pocket....
That's what you tell the older kids!!! Teach them to be independent, to do their own homework, and to face the consequences of their own effort or lack thereof... Okay—that applies to the more mature ones (like 7th or 8th graders). I highly doubt a kid under 9 is going to grasp why multiplication tables matter... but one day, and for the rest of their lives, it's gonna be huge...
One last thing!!! To be honest, I'm not a fan of the grading system either. It would be way better if they used letter grades instead (like they do in America 😛). And for the love of God, teachers need to stop using red pens; it's so demoralizing for kids

Look, I'm with you on this. Nobody sat there and studied with me, and I don't do that with my kids either. With my first grader, I just supervise and demand they tackle their homework solo, though the results aren't perfect 😁 (even if they aren't terrible). And if you want to see the "secret formula" for better grades these days, just go read what today's teachers are posting in their threads.
electricscout15 electricscout15 Member
20 messages
joined Apr 2009
#106 ·
Joshua Howard18 said:11+1+1=13 😉

Well, I guess that would be pretty impressive if you were just starting first grade! 😁
James Perez54 James Perez54 Active Member
67 messages
joined Oct 2011
#107 ·
Joshua Howard18 said:11+1+1=13 😉

There are two distinct mathematical operations here—not just one.

In your example, you're strictly looking at addition.😉
Austin Chavez5 Austin Chavez5 Member
40 messages
joined Feb 2010
#108 ·
James Perez54 said:There are two distinct mathematical operations here—not just one.

In your example, you're strictly looking at addition.😉

Does it actually say the two operations have to be different? And wasn't this supposed to be a challenge for the math geniuses anyway?
silverpuma542 silverpuma542 Member
34 messages
joined Oct 2008
#109 ·
Well, look at you two, acting like such little geniuses! Hahaha. 😛
Austin Chavez5 Austin Chavez5 Member
40 messages
joined Feb 2010
#110 ·
silverpuma542 said:Well, look at you two, acting like such little geniuses! Hahaha. 😛

Yeah, exactly 😁!
James Perez54 James Perez54 Active Member
67 messages
joined Oct 2011
#111 ·
Austin Chavez5 said:Does it actually say the two operations have to be different? And wasn't this supposed to be a challenge for the math geniuses anyway?

Fine, fine, you and Joshua Howard18 are both right. My brain is starting to fog up at this hour...🙂

But my point was that this came straight out of a 1st-grade textbook. It's basic curriculum stuff.
Scott Miller7 Scott Miller7 Member
13 messages
joined Jun 2009
#112 ·
shtefy, I haven't been following everything closely, so I might have missed it... is anyone else from your daughter’s group heading to the same school next year? And will she be one of those kids wearing a key on a lanyard, or will you be there to pick her up every day?

Personally, I wouldn't pull her out of the group just because of friends. My deciding factor would be whether she'd end up home alone too much. 🤷 If that were the case, I'd just let her go regularly, like any normal kid.

I started school at six and was actually excited about it, only to be crushed when I realized they didn't even introduce math until the second semester. 🤣

But hey, I managed to survive somehow. 😁

As for the grading system and today's curriculum—man, I have thoughts. 🤣 Maybe I'll get into that tomorrow, but I'll just say this: my daughter (who isn't even in school yet and isn't exactly a child prodigy 😁) can already explain the solar system and human anatomy to a fifth grader. She's currently hovering around a B average, mostly just getting by with letters and stuff... 😁 Honestly, how she manages to maintain a B without knowing the basics, I have no clue.
Tyler Reyes86 Tyler Reyes86 Member
31 messages
joined Apr 2008
#113 ·
I suppose I should begin by acknowledging that my previous observations regarding the rhinoceros have been somewhat... lacking in depth. It is quite a heavy topic, isn't it? One moment you are contemplating the sheer mass of such a creature, and the next, you find yourself wondering about the structural integrity of its hide. Truly fascinating! It reminds me of those discussions we had last week—you know, the ones where Tyler Reyes86 was insisting on the importance of biological classification? He’s always so precise, isn't he? And then there was silverpuma542, who I believe mentioned something about conservation efforts in the Midwest. Such important work! Anyway, back to the beast itself. There is something almost dignified about a rhino, despite its somewhat cumbersome gait. It moves with a certain... purpose. Or perhaps just momentum? It's hard to say. Regardless, I find myself increasingly preoccupied with the sheer scale of them. It really puts our little human concerns into perspective, don't you think? Just a massive, unstoppable force of nature roaming through the plains. Simply marvelous! kaže:
Insufficient.
I suppose one could argue that two is quite sufficient.
3 - solid.
4. Really quite excellent.
5-excellent!

I truly feel a sense of regret regarding how we grade our children using nothing but cold, hard numbers. When you hand a student an F, you aren't just marking a paper; you are sending a clear message that they haven't mastered the material yet—and frankly, that is exactly what they need to hear. It’s a reality check. However, I find it utterly baffling why a C is treated like some sort of academic catastrophe. To me, a C signifies that the child actually grasped the curriculum. It means they've got the fundamentals down. Anything above that should simply be seen as a sign that more effort is required to reach the next level.

If we’re going to claim that a C is a terrible grade, then our entire American school system deserves the blame. It’s a bit of a rigged game, isn't it? If you graduate elementary school with nothing but average marks, your options basically vanish. You’re looking at being funneled straight into three-year vocational programs or trade schools, which pretty much slams the door on any hopes of pursuing higher education later on. Most parents just want their kids to have every possible advantage, so naturally, they see a mediocre grade as a massive roadblock to future success. It's all about keeping those doors open, right?

Strict grading policies in the early years of Elementary School just don't align with what we know about developmental psychology. Kids at that age are incredibly emotionally fragile; it’s far too easy to instill a deep-seated belief that they simply aren't capable. When they face a constant barrage of low grades, it sends a devastating message: that they are somehow less valuable than their peers. The mechanism for critical thinking isn't even fully developed yet. A child isn't quite able to step back, analyze the situation, and separate their actual effort from their innate abilities. So, when they encounter failure, they tend to internalize it, thinking they are just fundamentally flawed—which makes them feel like there's no point in even trying. That is exactly how you breed a lifelong aversion to school and learning.

It is something that should genuinely give any parent pause: the sheer lack of specialized knowledge among teachers regarding areas they really ought to master if they are working professionally with children. It’s quite concerning, really. Unfortunately, it seems many educators aren't just unfamiliar with developmental psychology, but they seem to lack a fundamental grasp of pedagogy altogether.
The idea that parents are somehow obligated to teach their children "how to learn" feels incredibly unprofessional—frankly, it’s just plain rude.
That is precisely where the teaching staff should be making their most critical impact. It isn't just about delivering content; it’s about equipping students with actual methods for mastering material and retaining information effectively. We need to be teaching them the psychological mechanisms that allow a student to find their own internal drive and stay motivated toward achieving their goals.
On the flip side, I honestly don't think elementary school is even necessary for those lower grades. Let’s be real—the curriculum they cover during that stage is stuff any parent who actually finished middle school already knows by heart, so technically, you could just pass it along to your kid yourself. Of course, not every parent happens to be a trained pedagogue or a child psychologist, so we might lack the specialized tools to teach them actual study strategies. That responsibility should fall squarely on the teachers. Instead, many of them just dump a mountain of information on the kids and basically tell them to go sit at the kitchen table and figure it out themselves. A teacher's job should be to structure the material so that most of it sticks during class time, leaving nothing for home except a quick review. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of educators aren't up to the task, and instead of taking accountability, they just point the finger at the parents and the students for their own shortcomings.

It seems the profound ignorance of our educators has once again made its unwelcome appearance on this thread. I’ve noticed several users making remarks regarding the cognitive abilities—or lack thereof—of certain students. In my view, innate talents, natural aptitudes, or even inherent shortcomings ought to have absolutely no bearing on a student's grade. If we allow that to happen, we aren't actually grading academic performance; we are merely grading genetic predisposition. To judge a person based on their biological data is, by its very definition, nothing short of pure racism.

If you find yourself with a student who is truly gifted—I mean, someone who is operating on a completely different level than their peers—then skipping a grade should be on the table. If that isn't an option, then we have a moral obligation to raise the bar for them. It’s just common sense, really. If we don't, that child is going to lose all motivation to actually engage with the material, and frankly, it creates this weird tension in the classroom. You'll have the other kids feeling frustrated because they see someone succeeding effortlessly due to nothing more than pure genetic luck, without having to put in the grind. It’s a lose-lose situation if we don't adjust our expectations.
We really need to see this kind of adaptability in our schools when working with students who have learning disabilities. It’s essential that we implement individualized education programs (IEPs) to meet them where they are. In my view, grading should be based on the actual effort a student puts in rather than some arbitrary standard. A child's biological makeup—something they have absolutely no control over and certainly can't change—should never play a role in their academic evaluation. It just wouldn't be fair.
Essentially, we need to unlearn this vulgar biological determinism—this whole obsession with racism and those supposed "natural" hierarchies where some people are inherently stronger or weaker than others. We aren't living in the jungle, after all, so those kinds of distinctions simply shouldn't matter anymore.

For the most part, barring a few honorable exceptions, our educators are remarkably uninformed about their own field. If we were being strictly honest and gave them an overall grade for their performance, they would barely scrape by with a D. If they even managed that.
silverpuma542 silverpuma542 Member
34 messages
joined Oct 2008
#114 ·
That’s a beautifully written post, but I think it’s a bit too idealistic and utopian for our American school system. I have always absolutely loathed that classic teacher cliché about "warming your seat." Everything I ever learned just by sitting there warming my seat evaporated into thin air, whereas everything I learned through trial and error—sketching, deducing, doing, and teaching others—is what actually stuck in my brain.

I honestly believe that during the first four years of Elementary School, we should be teaching mnemonic techniques instead of just shoving massive piles of raw data into kids' heads. Unfortunately, even in the sciences, you still run into teachers who get genuinely angry if a student reaches a conclusion through their own logic rather than reciting the textbook verbatim. They’ll snap at you, "You didn't learn it right, you're just doing it your way," as if they value the ability to parrot a book more than the actual result.

This is exactly why we end up with students who will never realize they could grasp concepts easily—like understanding why -270 degrees is the same as 90 degrees by simply visualizing turning left three times or right once to land on the same spot. It's why some won't see that kitchen tiles can act as a coordinate system, or fail to realize that the floor and the ceiling are just two points in space, or struggle to memorize a list when they could just mentally map it to the rooms in their own apartment. Worst of all, they’ll view those mental shortcuts as a form of cheating, because, hey, they didn't sit there warming their seats and turn themselves into parrots.

And now, regarding this talk about racism... what kind of sports would we even have then? We wouldn't be forcing dwarves onto a basketball court, giants into gymnastics, or people with Asperger to become actors or sales reps, would we? Though, I suppose we already try to shove the stutterers into news anchor roles... 😁 maybe we should start heading in that direction. Just like in the story Harrison Bergeron?
Jason Ortiz5 Jason Ortiz5 Regular
325 messages
joined Mar 2025
#115 ·
Scott Miller7 said:shtefy, I haven't been following everything closely, so I might have missed it... is anyone else from your daughter’s group heading to the same school next year? And will she be one of those kids wearing a key on a lanyard, or will you be there to pick her up every day?

Personally, I wouldn't pull her out of the group just because of friends. My deciding factor would be whether she'd end up home alone too much. 🤷 If that were the case, I'd just let her go regularly, like any normal kid.

I started school at six and was actually excited about it, only to be crushed when I realized they didn't even introduce math until the second semester. 🤣

But hey, I managed to survive somehow. 😁

As for the grading system and today's curriculum—man, I have thoughts. 🤣 Maybe I'll get into that tomorrow, but I'll just say this: my daughter (who isn't even in school yet and isn't exactly a child prodigy 😁) can already explain the solar system and human anatomy to a fifth grader. She's currently hovering around a B average, mostly just getting by with letters and stuff... 😁 Honestly, how she manages to maintain a B without knowing the basics, I have no clue.

The kids in daycare are a pretty mixed bunch, so some of her close friends will move on next year while others stay for another two. Either way, she won't be lonely, so that's not a huge deal for me. Plus, she's incredibly outgoing and makes friends effortlessly (honestly, I don't know where she gets it from 🙂). Regarding the key thing—we actually have Grandma around. But after listening to her grumble about the other grandkids she picks up from school for years now (she can never get a moment of peace, everyone talks her ear off, food is getting expensive—of course, she won't take any cash 🙄), I’d rather skip that. Actually, I'm kind of hoping they set up an after-school program like they mentioned. My husband and I both work crazy hours, so it's hard for her to rely on us. 😢

Anyway, I also started at 6, and I loved it. But back then, about a third of the kids started early, so it wasn't really a weird thing to do.

Besides, I went to school in a big city, and most of us went to preschool first, so we already knew how to read, write, and do basic math... We were all pretty much on the same level. But here, she'll be in class with a lot of kids from the surrounding rural areas too. I don't want to sound judgmental, but it's just a fact that many of those kids aren't really socialized yet, let alone knowing their letters. A coworker's son went to a tiny rural daycare, and he still doesn't know his alphabet. 🤷 That's one thing that worries me—there's going to be such a massive gap between the kids. I honestly don't know how the teachers are going to manage that.

But my aunt suggested something yesterday that might be the fix. She said maybe the little one could start at a smaller private school in September. We'll see how it goes. If it works out, great! If she's bored, she can just drop out and wait until next year. Or, if it turns out to be the best fit, she could spend both years in the older group at the small school. It won't hurt her. 🙂

Tyler Reyes86 said:
I suppose I should begin by acknowledging that my previous observations regarding the rhinoceros have been somewhat... lacking in depth. It is quite a heavy topic, isn't it? One moment you are contemplating the sheer mass of such a creature, and the next, you find yourself wondering about the structural integrity of its hide. Truly fascinating! It reminds me of those discussions we had last week—you know, the ones where Tyler Reyes86 was insisting on the importance of biological classification? He’s always so precise, isn't he? And then there was silverpuma542, who I believe mentioned something about conservation efforts in the Midwest. Such important work! Anyway, back to the beast itself. There is something almost dignified about a rhino, despite its somewhat cumbersome gait. It moves with a certain... purpose. Or perhaps just momentum? It's hard to say. Regardless, I find myself increasingly preoccupied with the sheer scale of them. It really puts our little human concerns into perspective, don't you think? Just a massive, unstoppable force of nature roaming through the plains. Simply marvelous! kaže:
Insufficient.
I suppose one could argue that two is quite sufficient.
3 - solid.
4. Really quite excellent.
5-excellent!

I truly feel a sense of regret regarding how we grade our children using nothing but cold, hard numbers. When you hand a student an F, you aren't just marking a paper; you are sending a clear message that they haven't mastered the material yet—and frankly, that is exactly what they need to hear. It’s a reality check. However, I find it utterly baffling why a C is treated like some sort of academic catastrophe. To me, a C signifies that the child actually grasped the curriculum. It means they've got the fundamentals down. Anything above that should simply be seen as a sign that more effort is required to reach the next level.

If we’re going to claim that a C is a terrible grade, then our entire American school system deserves the blame. It’s a bit of a rigged game, isn't it? If you graduate elementary school with nothing but average marks, your options basically vanish. You’re looking at being funneled straight into three-year vocational programs or trade schools, which pretty much slams the door on any hopes of pursuing higher education later on. Most parents just want their kids to have every possible advantage, so naturally, they see a mediocre grade as a massive roadblock to future success. It's all about keeping those doors open, right?

Strict grading policies in the early years of Elementary School just don't align with what we know about developmental psychology. Kids at that age are incredibly emotionally fragile; it’s far too easy to instill a deep-seated belief that they simply aren't capable. When they face a constant barrage of low grades, it sends a devastating message: that they are somehow less valuable than their peers. The mechanism for critical thinking isn't even fully developed yet. A child isn't quite able to step back, analyze the situation, and separate their actual effort from their innate abilities. So, when they encounter failure, they tend to internalize it, thinking they are just fundamentally flawed—which makes them feel like there's no point in even trying. That is exactly how you breed a lifelong aversion to school and learning.

It is something that should genuinely give any parent pause: the sheer lack of specialized knowledge among teachers regarding areas they really ought to master if they are working professionally with children. It’s quite concerning, really. Unfortunately, it seems many educators aren't just unfamiliar with developmental psychology, but they seem to lack a fundamental grasp of pedagogy altogether.
The idea that parents are somehow obligated to teach their children "how to learn" feels incredibly unprofessional—frankly, it’s just plain rude.
That is precisely where the teaching staff should be making their most critical impact. It isn't just about delivering content; it’s about equipping students with actual methods for mastering material and retaining information effectively. We need to be teaching them the psychological mechanisms that allow a student to find their own internal drive and stay motivated toward achieving their goals.
On the flip side, I honestly don't think elementary school is even necessary for those lower grades. Let’s be real—the curriculum they cover during that stage is stuff any parent who actually finished middle school already knows by heart, so technically, you could just pass it along to your kid yourself. Of course, not every parent happens to be a trained pedagogue or a child psychologist, so we might lack the specialized tools to teach them actual study strategies. That responsibility should fall squarely on the teachers. Instead, many of them just dump a mountain of information on the kids and basically tell them to go sit at the kitchen table and figure it out themselves. A teacher's job should be to structure the material so that most of it sticks during class time, leaving nothing for home except a quick review. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of educators aren't up to the task, and instead of taking accountability, they just point the finger at the parents and the students for their own shortcomings.

It seems the profound ignorance of our educators has once again made its unwelcome appearance on this thread. I’ve noticed several users making remarks regarding the cognitive abilities—or lack thereof—of certain students. In my view, innate talents, natural aptitudes, or even inherent shortcomings ought to have absolutely no bearing on a student's grade. If we allow that to happen, we aren't actually grading academic performance; we are merely grading genetic predisposition. To judge a person based on their biological data is, by its very definition, nothing short of pure racism.

If you find yourself with a student who is truly gifted—I mean, someone who is operating on a completely different level than their peers—then skipping a grade should be on the table. If that isn't an option, then we have a moral obligation to raise the bar for them. It’s just common sense, really. If we don't, that child is going to lose all motivation to actually engage with the material, and frankly, it creates this weird tension in the classroom. You'll have the other kids feeling frustrated because they see someone succeeding effortlessly due to nothing more than pure genetic luck, without having to put in the grind. It’s a lose-lose situation if we don't adjust our expectations.
We really need to see this kind of adaptability in our schools when working with students who have learning disabilities. It’s essential that we implement individualized education programs (IEPs) to meet them where they are. In my view, grading should be based on the actual effort a student puts in rather than some arbitrary standard. A child's biological makeup—something they have absolutely no control over and certainly can't change—should never play a role in their academic evaluation. It just wouldn't be fair.
Essentially, we need to unlearn this vulgar biological determinism—this whole obsession with racism and those supposed "natural" hierarchies where some people are inherently stronger or weaker than others. We aren't living in the jungle, after all, so those kinds of distinctions simply shouldn't matter anymore.

For the most part, barring a few honorable exceptions, our educators are remarkably uninformed about their own field. If we were being strictly honest and gave them an overall grade for their performance, they would barely scrape by with a D. If they even managed that.

I’m pretty much on board with almost all of this.

silverpuma542 said:That’s a beautifully written post, but I think it’s a bit too idealistic and utopian for our American school system. I have always absolutely loathed that classic teacher cliché about "warming your seat." Everything I ever learned just by sitting there warming my seat evaporated into thin air, whereas everything I learned through trial and error—sketching, deducing, doing, and teaching others—is what actually stuck in my brain.

I honestly believe that during the first four years of Elementary School, we should be teaching mnemonic techniques instead of just shoving massive piles of raw data into kids' heads. Unfortunately, even in the sciences, you still run into teachers who get genuinely angry if a student reaches a conclusion through their own logic rather than reciting the textbook verbatim. They’ll snap at you, "You didn't learn it right, you're just doing it your way," as if they value the ability to parrot a book more than the actual result.

This is exactly why we end up with students who will never realize they could grasp concepts easily—like understanding why -270 degrees is the same as 90 degrees by simply visualizing turning left three times or right once to land on the same spot. It's why some won't see that kitchen tiles can act as a coordinate system, or fail to realize that the floor and the ceiling are just two points in space, or struggle to memorize a list when they could just mentally map it to the rooms in their own apartment. Worst of all, they’ll view those mental shortcuts as a form of cheating, because, hey, they didn't sit there warming their seats and turn themselves into parrots.

And now, regarding this talk about racism... what kind of sports would we even have then? We wouldn't be forcing dwarves onto a basketball court, giants into gymnastics, or people with Asperger to become actors or sales reps, would we? Though, I suppose we already try to shove the stutterers into news anchor roles... 😁 maybe we should start heading in that direction. Just like in the story Harrison Bergeron?

And man, I totally agree with that too. Cramming for exams is basically useless once the test is over. It just disappears.

Funny story, though—my aunt was actually deeply offended the other day when her own daughter told her that people enrolling in teacher training programs these days are mostly just second-rate types. Aside from a tiny handful who actually want to work with kids, most of them are just looking for a government job, a guaranteed 20-hour work week, and free field trips. Even if that sounds a bit cynical (though is it really? My aunt actually tried to push her daughter into education, arguing that the pay is steady, you won't kill yourself working, and you'll have plenty of free time...).
Kate Sullivan12 Kate Sullivan12 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Feb 2010
#116 ·
I’d push for state standardized testing starting as early as 8th grade.

Back when my generation hit high school, we had like 7 or 8 straight-A students from Elementary School just fail out during freshman year. By junior year, our class was so small they actually merged us with another grade. The kids who cruised in with mediocre grades from Elementary School ended up holding their own just fine...

Since the whole system relies on GPA as the only way to get into a good high school, I think we need those exams to actually prove they know the material.

And I don't get this idea that parents should be doing their kid's homework, reading all their books, or tutoring them constantly—what kind of nonsense is that? It’s fine to jump in occasionally if they're stuck, but you explain the concept, you don't do the work for them.

I don't know what kind of schools your kids go to, but where I live, first graders are spending the whole year learning to write, read, and do basic math. Nobody’s ever complained about anything being too hard for their age group. What’s your "ideal" pace then? Learning five letters and three numbers a year??

It’s honestly sad how some people just sell their own kids short...
Tyler Reyes86 Tyler Reyes86 Member
31 messages
joined Apr 2008
#117 ·
silverpuma542 said:That’s a beautifully written post, but I think it’s a bit too idealistic and utopian for our American school system. I have always absolutely loathed that classic teacher cliché about "warming your seat." Everything I ever learned just by sitting there warming my seat evaporated into thin air, whereas everything I learned through trial and error—sketching, deducing, doing, and teaching others—is what actually stuck in my brain.

I honestly believe that during the first four years of Elementary School, we should be teaching mnemonic techniques instead of just shoving massive piles of raw data into kids' heads. Unfortunately, even in the sciences, you still run into teachers who get genuinely angry if a student reaches a conclusion through their own logic rather than reciting the textbook verbatim. They’ll snap at you, "You didn't learn it right, you're just doing it your way," as if they value the ability to parrot a book more than the actual result.

This is exactly why we end up with students who will never realize they could grasp concepts easily—like understanding why -270 degrees is the same as 90 degrees by simply visualizing turning left three times or right once to land on the same spot. It's why some won't see that kitchen tiles can act as a coordinate system, or fail to realize that the floor and the ceiling are just two points in space, or struggle to memorize a list when they could just mentally map it to the rooms in their own apartment. Worst of all, they’ll view those mental shortcuts as a form of cheating, because, hey, they didn't sit there warming their seats and turn themselves into parrots.

And now, regarding this talk about racism... what kind of sports would we even have then? We wouldn't be forcing dwarves onto a basketball court, giants into gymnastics, or people with Asperger to become actors or sales reps, would we? Though, I suppose we already try to shove the stutterers into news anchor roles... 😁 maybe we should start heading in that direction. Just like in the story Harrison Bergeron?

I understand your point. You're right—not everyone is cut out for everything. But there is a massive difference between an adult being limited by their career choices based on their education and skill set, versus applying those same rigid criteria to children.
No blind person is going to try out for a professional driver's license, nor would a deaf person insist on playing in a symphony orchestra.
However, elementary and high school are mandatory; kids have to master a specific curriculum there. That means even shorter kids play basketball in gym class, kids who struggle with math still tackle math problems, and colorblind kids still participate in art class.
When you consider that nobody should have to endure racial insults or humiliation—especially not children who haven't developed the coping mechanisms to defend themselves yet—you arrive at the conclusion that we cannot judge children based on their innate characteristics.
An "A" in PE shouldn't be reserved solely for star athletes, and sickly or physically weaker children shouldn't be penalized with lower grades because of a genetically predetermined physical condition.
An "A" in Art can't be strictly for those blessed with natural talent, just as an "A" in Math shouldn't be exclusive to those who were, metaphorically speaking, born with a calculator in their heads.
A teacher's job, beyond instruction, is to grade a child's work, not to grade Mother Nature's handiwork.

Someone mentioned earlier that some children, due to cognitive disabilities, simply cannot earn an "A."
Essentially, the message being sent is: "You aren't good enough because you were born this way (stupid, limited, incapable, a lower race)." And no matter how hard they try, nothing helps.
That kind of approach is disgusting, inhumane, and yes, racist. Beyond that, it's bad teaching, because it degrades the very value of hard work, effort, and progress made according to one's own abilities.
Ultimately, children are still developing; there is a mechanism for compensation, and it isn't rare for persistent effort to yield brilliant results, regardless of a disadvantaged starting position. But that won't happen if we demotivate a child from the very start by judging them as being "lesser" than others.
Not to mention the devastating consequences such an approach has on a child's emotional and psychosocial development.
So, get racism out of our schools!
silverpuma542 silverpuma542 Member
34 messages
joined Oct 2008
#118 ·
Kate Sullivan12 said:I’d push for state standardized testing starting as early as 8th grade.

Back when my generation hit high school, we had like 7 or 8 straight-A students from Elementary School just fail out during freshman year. By junior year, our class was so small they actually merged us with another grade. The kids who cruised in with mediocre grades from Elementary School ended up holding their own just fine...

Since the whole system relies on GPA as the only way to get into a good high school, I think we need those exams to actually prove they know the material.

And I don't get this idea that parents should be doing their kid's homework, reading all their books, or tutoring them constantly—what kind of nonsense is that? It’s fine to jump in occasionally if they're stuck, but you explain the concept, you don't do the work for them.

I don't know what kind of schools your kids go to, but where I live, first graders are spending the whole year learning to write, read, and do basic math. Nobody’s ever complained about anything being too hard for their age group. What’s your "ideal" pace then? Learning five letters and three numbers a year??

It’s honestly sad how some people just sell their own kids short...

Well, it’s being introduced regardless. Whether this turns out to be just another brilliant idea that ends up being a total disaster in practice—we’ll just have to wait and see. 🤷
Scott Miller7 Scott Miller7 Member
13 messages
joined Jun 2009
#119 ·
Scott Miller7 said:shtefy, I haven't been following everything closely, so I might have missed it... is anyone else from your daughter’s group heading to the same school next year? And will she be one of those kids wearing a key on a lanyard, or will you be there to pick her up every day?

Personally, I wouldn't pull her out of the group just because of friends. My deciding factor would be whether she'd end up home alone too much. 🤷 If that were the case, I'd just let her go regularly, like any normal kid.

I started school at six and was actually excited about it, only to be crushed when I realized they didn't even introduce math until the second semester. 🤣

But hey, I managed to survive somehow. 😁

As for the grading system and today's curriculum—man, I have thoughts. 🤣 Maybe I'll get into that tomorrow, but I'll just say this: my daughter (who isn't even in school yet and isn't exactly a child prodigy 😁) can already explain the solar system and human anatomy to a fifth grader. She's currently hovering around a B average, mostly just getting by with letters and stuff... 😁 Honestly, how she manages to maintain a B without knowing the basics, I have no clue.

...
Honestly, after Tyler Reyes86 and silverpuma542, there isn't much left for me to add.😁

Look, we both work crazy hours; I don't think the kid can really rely on us.

Jason Ortiz5, this is exactly why I wouldn't be sending them to school any sooner than necessary.🤷
Austin Chavez5 Austin Chavez5 Member
40 messages
joined Feb 2010
#120 ·
Tyler Reyes86 said:
I suppose I should begin by acknowledging that my previous observations regarding the rhinoceros have been somewhat... lacking in depth. It is quite a heavy topic, isn't it? One moment you are contemplating the sheer mass of such a creature, and the next, you find yourself wondering about the structural integrity of its hide. Truly fascinating! It reminds me of those discussions we had last week—you know, the ones where Tyler Reyes86 was insisting on the importance of biological classification? He’s always so precise, isn't he? And then there was silverpuma542, who I believe mentioned something about conservation efforts in the Midwest. Such important work! Anyway, back to the beast itself. There is something almost dignified about a rhino, despite its somewhat cumbersome gait. It moves with a certain... purpose. Or perhaps just momentum? It's hard to say. Regardless, I find myself increasingly preoccupied with the sheer scale of them. It really puts our little human concerns into perspective, don't you think? Just a massive, unstoppable force of nature roaming through the plains. Simply marvelous! kaže:
Insufficient.
I suppose one could argue that two is quite sufficient.
3 - solid.
4. Really quite excellent.
5-excellent!

I truly feel a sense of regret regarding how we grade our children using nothing but cold, hard numbers. When you hand a student an F, you aren't just marking a paper; you are sending a clear message that they haven't mastered the material yet—and frankly, that is exactly what they need to hear. It’s a reality check. However, I find it utterly baffling why a C is treated like some sort of academic catastrophe. To me, a C signifies that the child actually grasped the curriculum. It means they've got the fundamentals down. Anything above that should simply be seen as a sign that more effort is required to reach the next level.

If we’re going to claim that a C is a terrible grade, then our entire American school system deserves the blame. It’s a bit of a rigged game, isn't it? If you graduate elementary school with nothing but average marks, your options basically vanish. You’re looking at being funneled straight into three-year vocational programs or trade schools, which pretty much slams the door on any hopes of pursuing higher education later on. Most parents just want their kids to have every possible advantage, so naturally, they see a mediocre grade as a massive roadblock to future success. It's all about keeping those doors open, right?

Strict grading policies in the early years of Elementary School just don't align with what we know about developmental psychology. Kids at that age are incredibly emotionally fragile; it’s far too easy to instill a deep-seated belief that they simply aren't capable. When they face a constant barrage of low grades, it sends a devastating message: that they are somehow less valuable than their peers. The mechanism for critical thinking isn't even fully developed yet. A child isn't quite able to step back, analyze the situation, and separate their actual effort from their innate abilities. So, when they encounter failure, they tend to internalize it, thinking they are just fundamentally flawed—which makes them feel like there's no point in even trying. That is exactly how you breed a lifelong aversion to school and learning.

It is something that should genuinely give any parent pause: the sheer lack of specialized knowledge among teachers regarding areas they really ought to master if they are working professionally with children. It’s quite concerning, really. Unfortunately, it seems many educators aren't just unfamiliar with developmental psychology, but they seem to lack a fundamental grasp of pedagogy altogether.
The idea that parents are somehow obligated to teach their children "how to learn" feels incredibly unprofessional—frankly, it’s just plain rude.
That is precisely where the teaching staff should be making their most critical impact. It isn't just about delivering content; it’s about equipping students with actual methods for mastering material and retaining information effectively. We need to be teaching them the psychological mechanisms that allow a student to find their own internal drive and stay motivated toward achieving their goals.
On the flip side, I honestly don't think elementary school is even necessary for those lower grades. Let’s be real—the curriculum they cover during that stage is stuff any parent who actually finished middle school already knows by heart, so technically, you could just pass it along to your kid yourself. Of course, not every parent happens to be a trained pedagogue or a child psychologist, so we might lack the specialized tools to teach them actual study strategies. That responsibility should fall squarely on the teachers. Instead, many of them just dump a mountain of information on the kids and basically tell them to go sit at the kitchen table and figure it out themselves. A teacher's job should be to structure the material so that most of it sticks during class time, leaving nothing for home except a quick review. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of educators aren't up to the task, and instead of taking accountability, they just point the finger at the parents and the students for their own shortcomings.

It seems the profound ignorance of our educators has once again made its unwelcome appearance on this thread. I’ve noticed several users making remarks regarding the cognitive abilities—or lack thereof—of certain students. In my view, innate talents, natural aptitudes, or even inherent shortcomings ought to have absolutely no bearing on a student's grade. If we allow that to happen, we aren't actually grading academic performance; we are merely grading genetic predisposition. To judge a person based on their biological data is, by its very definition, nothing short of pure racism.

If you find yourself with a student who is truly gifted—I mean, someone who is operating on a completely different level than their peers—then skipping a grade should be on the table. If that isn't an option, then we have a moral obligation to raise the bar for them. It’s just common sense, really. If we don't, that child is going to lose all motivation to actually engage with the material, and frankly, it creates this weird tension in the classroom. You'll have the other kids feeling frustrated because they see someone succeeding effortlessly due to nothing more than pure genetic luck, without having to put in the grind. It’s a lose-lose situation if we don't adjust our expectations.
We really need to see this kind of adaptability in our schools when working with students who have learning disabilities. It’s essential that we implement individualized education programs (IEPs) to meet them where they are. In my view, grading should be based on the actual effort a student puts in rather than some arbitrary standard. A child's biological makeup—something they have absolutely no control over and certainly can't change—should never play a role in their academic evaluation. It just wouldn't be fair.
Essentially, we need to unlearn this vulgar biological determinism—this whole obsession with racism and those supposed "natural" hierarchies where some people are inherently stronger or weaker than others. We aren't living in the jungle, after all, so those kinds of distinctions simply shouldn't matter anymore.

For the most part, barring a few honorable exceptions, our educators are remarkably uninformed about their own field. If we were being strictly honest and gave them an overall grade for their performance, they would barely scrape by with a D. If they even managed that.

Spot on. Seriously, my thoughts exactly. Look, I know there are some absolute rockstar teachers out there, but these "half-baked" instructors? They’re totally ruining the vibe. Honestly, I’m convinced kids should be getting the heavy lifting done at school so they can actually have time to just... live. Play outside, breathe some fresh air, do whatever. That's what makes a kid happy. A kid shouldn't have to wait until the weekend or a holiday to actually feel alive—they should be happy every single day.

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