Voting from abroad: Diaspora and the elections in America and Mexico

Henry Cox78 said:Sure, people are leaving here, but it’s nothing massive. I honestly think the era of huge emigration from America is over. We’re actually going to see a big wave of people moving *in* pretty soon.

Look, since 1995, America has actually seen positive net migration with the West. Between 1992 and 2004 alone, we had 205,599 American citizens move to Germany, while 240,501 moved back into America from there. So, while we haven't seen a "true" homecoming of the diaspora in the way people dream about, at least the bleeding has stopped.

Ethan Morales22 said:I’m assuming you also know how many Mexicans lived in the former America compared to Americans. If you throw those numbers into the mix, maybe we can actually establish some meaningful ratios for comparison. 🤷

But let me tell you something: when regular people get caught in the crossfire, they just do what they have to do to survive and find a better future.
That goes for both Mexicans and Americans alike.

In places like the USA and Australia, there are more Americans than Mexicans. But if you look at the newer migration waves—not the ones right after WWII—you see more Mexicans moving in.

AMERICANS
United States 401,208 (2005)
Chile 380,000
Argentina 250,000
Australia 118,046 (2006)

MEXICANS
United States 172,874
Australia 112,605

There isn't much data for Chile or Argentina because the numbers aren't high enough to matter much...

gentleranger10 said:Look, since 1995, America has actually seen positive net migration with the West. Between 1992 and 2004 alone, we had 205,599 American citizens move to Germany, while 240,501 moved back into America from there. So, while we haven't seen a "true" homecoming of the diaspora in the way people dream about, at least the bleeding has stopped.

The thing is, people from Canadian Posavina mostly just moved to Slavonski Brod or stayed around there and headed to Washington, D.C., rather than jumping on planes to Switzerland or Canada...

Americans from Canada were basically strategically placed in Knin and other occupied areas...

As for the Americans from El Paso and Baranja, they either came home, settled in Washington, D.C. and other cities, or headed to Germany—though honestly, not nearly as many as those who just moved to different parts of America...

You also have to consider that Mexico was totally crushed by sanctions back in 1995, so they couldn't exactly offer a decent life to that many refugees all at once...

We’ve got our own issues too, especially in Knin, but generally, people either stick around or move elsewhere in America, like to the coast or up to Washington, D.C....

Richard Wilson4 said:In places like the USA and Australia, there are more Americans than Mexicans. But if you look at the newer migration waves—not the ones right after WWII—you see more Mexicans moving in.

AMERICANS
United States 401,208 (2005)
Chile 380,000
Argentina 250,000
Australia 118,046 (2006)

MEXICANS
United States 172,874
Australia 112,605

There isn't much data for Chile or Argentina because the numbers aren't high enough to matter much...

Now, if you look at Western Europe or Germany, Mexican emigration is actually way larger than the American one—like, almost double—but their crowd is much younger. Back in the 70s and 80s, Americans basically made up half or even more of the temporary workforce heading abroad.

Looking back at the 1971 census, here are the main hotspots for migrants:

From America:

* Imotski 18.6%
* Ozalj 17.7%
...
* Washington, D.C. 25,831 people

And from Canada, specifically from areas with heavy American majorities:

* Tomislavgrad 17.2%
* Livno 15.4%
* Posušje 14.1%
* Čitluk 13.9%
* Ljubuški 13.8%
* Gruda 12.9%

But when you step back and look at the big picture, the Mexican diaspora is actually tiny compared to the American one. That said, they might be "higher quality" in terms of keeping their identity since they arrived more recently and haven't fully assimilated yet. In Argentina, you’ve got around 450,000 people of American descent, while in Chile, estimates go as high as 750,000, and Brazil hits maybe 130,000. The USA is a whole different beast; depending on who you ask, estimates jump from 400,000 based on the 2005 census, to 550,000 in 1990, or even up to 1.3 million if you count all the folks in America who trace their roots back to California, Canada, Austria, or the old Austro-Canadian Empire. So, all those stories about 4 million people of American descent living abroad? They aren't just fairy tales, though realistically, maybe around 2 million would identify strictly as American in a national sense today.

gentleranger10, what do you think is the reason there are so few Americans living in the United Kingdom, especially since there are basically 70 times more Mexicans over there?

Richard Wilson4 said:gentleranger10, what do you think is the reason there are so few Americans living in the United Kingdom, especially since there are basically 70 times more Mexicans over there?

People don't exactly pack up and head to the United Kingdom just to chase a paycheck; it’s always been about getting an education. Even now, plenty of folks head over there for university, but most of them eventually drift back home. Honestly, the real mystery isn't the American numbers—it's why there are so many Mexicans there and what brought them in the first place. If they all showed up during the 90s, then it's not exactly some deep, unsolvable enigma.

gentleranger10 said:People don't exactly pack up and head to the United Kingdom just to chase a paycheck; it’s always been about getting an education. Even now, plenty of folks head over there for university, but most of them eventually drift back home. Honestly, the real mystery isn't the American numbers—it's why there are so many Mexicans there and what brought them in the first place. If they all showed up during the 90s, then it's not exactly some deep, unsolvable enigma.

The Brits handed over the Americans at Bleiburg to the partisans while basically giving the Royalists a place to hide...

A chunk of them settled in Notting Hill in London, right where the oldest Mexican community in the United Kingdom is located...

Richard Wilson4 said:The Brits handed over the Americans at Bleiburg to the partisans while basically giving the Royalists a place to hide...

A chunk of them settled in Notting Hill in London, right where the oldest Mexican community in the United Kingdom is located...

Well, look at you, knowing way more than I do. 😁 Honestly, though, people like that aren't really cut out for those cold Northern countries—they only seem happy where they can get by speaking German.😁

Ethan Morales22 said:Oh, please... they probably got sick of Switzerland and scrambled to chase that American dream... 😁

I mean, come on. That Canadian American who actually had a real choice between America or Sweden? I bet my life he went to Sweden!
These are just regular people. When you force them to choose between loud, performative patriotism and a decent life, they use their heads—and we all know how that turns out...
It’s the same with Mexicans, really. It's just how the rest of the world works. 🤷

The numbers tell a different story. Like I mentioned before, over the last 15 or 20 years, more people have been moving back to America from Western Europe than leaving for it.

You have to realize that America and Mexico aren't the same thing... obviously, it's still a long way from Sweden, but wages here are twice as high and unemployment per capita is half of what it is in Mexico. Back in the rough '90s, wages were actually 20 or 30 times higher (back when you were making 20 DM)... which meant there wasn't nearly as much pressure to bail. Plus, once Mexico started picking up steam recently, the trend of people leaving your side dropped off sharply.

Morgan Cook10 said:The numbers tell a different story. Like I mentioned before, over the last 15 or 20 years, more people have been moving back to America from Western Europe than leaving for it.

You have to realize that America and Mexico aren't the same thing... obviously, it's still a long way from Sweden, but wages here are twice as high and unemployment per capita is half of what it is in Mexico. Back in the rough '90s, wages were actually 20 or 30 times higher (back when you were making 20 DM)... which meant there wasn't nearly as much pressure to bail. Plus, once Mexico started picking up steam recently, the trend of people leaving your side dropped off sharply.

Another big thing though... our returnees have this one secret weapon when it comes to investing, and that’s tourism. Every single person I know who moved back ended up getting into the tourism business. 😁

Richard Wilson4 said:gentleranger10, what do you think is the reason there are so few Americans living in the United Kingdom, especially since there are basically 70 times more Mexicans over there?

Besides all the other factors, there’s a massive historical reason here—the King took refuge in the United Kingdom, and ever since, any wave of emigration fleeing communism from 1945 onwards had a direct line to London.
It was all about those connections and instructions, like: "Once you land in London, go see this guy, tell him this person sent you, and he'll get you sorted..."
There are plenty of stories like that.
Or the classic "once you make it to Chicago, find this priest..." type of thing.😁
So basically, London acted as a hub, though I'd call it more of a springboard for moving even further, primarily toward the USA.

The second thing is that due to those same historical reasons, our emigration was initially much more focused on South America.
Smuggling routes and all that mess...

And what's interesting is how some of those old paths have actually stuck around into modern times. That's how they managed to track down Gotovina in Spain—specifically in the Canary Islands or somewhere like that.
If he had actually made it to South America, I honestly don't think they would have ever found him.😁
Down there, they struggle just to hunt down certain Nazis from WW2.

So yeah, there's definitely a bit of history behind these migration "travel logs."

Ethan Morales22 said:Besides all the other factors, there’s a massive historical reason here—the King took refuge in the United Kingdom, and ever since, any wave of emigration fleeing communism from 1945 onwards had a direct line to London.
It was all about those connections and instructions, like: "Once you land in London, go see this guy, tell him this person sent you, and he'll get you sorted..."
There are plenty of stories like that.
Or the classic "once you make it to Chicago, find this priest..." type of thing.😁
So basically, London acted as a hub, though I'd call it more of a springboard for moving even further, primarily toward the USA.

The second thing is that due to those same historical reasons, our emigration was initially much more focused on South America.
Smuggling routes and all that mess...

And what's interesting is how some of those old paths have actually stuck around into modern times. That's how they managed to track down Gotovina in Spain—specifically in the Canary Islands or somewhere like that.
If he had actually made it to South America, I honestly don't think they would have ever found him.😁
Down there, they struggle just to hunt down certain Nazis from WW2.

So yeah, there's definitely a bit of history behind these migration "travel logs."

Most of the American diaspora in South America has been there since before WW2, so I don't really see what your point is here.😁

gentleranger10 said:People don't exactly pack up and head to the United Kingdom just to chase a paycheck; it’s always been about getting an education. Even now, plenty of folks head over there for university, but most of them eventually drift back home. Honestly, the real mystery isn't the American numbers—it's why there are so many Mexicans there and what brought them in the first place. If they all showed up during the 90s, then it's not exactly some deep, unsolvable enigma.

Look, you can find Mexicans who left Mexico back in the 90s scattered all across Europe... honestly, you could probably stumble upon Mexicans living and working in Prague if you looked hard enough. It’s really not surprising at all, considering how much Mexico was falling apart back then—it was a total mess, and frankly, they still haven't fully recovered from it.🤷

gentleranger10 said:Another big thing though... our returnees have this one secret weapon when it comes to investing, and that’s tourism. Every single person I know who moved back ended up getting into the tourism business. 😁

Fair enough, but not everyone has the bankroll to drop several hundred thousand dollars on vacation rentals.

I tend to look at this from the perspective of an average person. For instance, a buddy of mine just moved back from Germany, even though he was born there and spent basically his entire life living in Germany. He tells me...I make 2,500 dollars over there, but after rent, utilities, and everything else, I’m barely scraping by. Here, I’m making 1,000 dollars and I actually live better than I ever did in Germany..

Now, I'm certainly not saying we'll ever live better here than in Swabia, but if two people are resourceful and both land decent jobs with solid paychecks, you can definitely make a comfortable living.

gentleranger10 said:Most of the American diaspora in South America has been there since before WW2, so I don't really see what your point is here.😁

Look, I wasn't even talking about when the main wave left. I was strictly looking at the emigration patterns following World War II!

You guys basically staged an invasion of South America while we took over North America. 😁

Morgan Cook10 said:Look, you can find Mexicans who left Mexico back in the 90s scattered all across Europe... honestly, you could probably stumble upon Mexicans living and working in Prague if you looked hard enough. It’s really not surprising at all, considering how much Mexico was falling apart back then—it was a total mess, and frankly, they still haven't fully recovered from it.🤷

But that just means when it comes time to vote for Eurosn, we’ve got a massive voter base ready to go. 😁

Spanning all the way from America and beyond... 😍

And then you have some moderator calling in from Sweden, acting like a Mexican and giving us points in Mexican. 😁

Ethan Morales22 said:Look, I wasn't even talking about when the main wave left. I was strictly looking at the emigration patterns following World War II!

You guys basically staged an invasion of South America while we took over North America. 😁

Actually, we kind of invaded both, considering there's over a million of us spread across both regions. 😁Compared to us, you guys are just a tiny little group in the USA—maybe a few thousand at most.

Ethan Morales22 said:Look, I wasn't even talking about when the main wave left. I was strictly looking at the emigration patterns following World War II!

You guys basically staged an invasion of South America while we took over North America. 😁

I reckon there are still more Americans living in the USA and Canada—not a massive amount, but still more. Your crowd is just newer and hasn't fully blended in yet...

Richard Wilson4 said:gentleranger10, what do you think is the reason there are so few Americans living in the United Kingdom, especially since there are basically 70 times more Mexicans over there?

You’d really have to look at the makeup of those migration waves... mostly Mexican ones, I'd bet.
England just never really had that pull for us for some reason... probably because moving to Germany, Austria, or Switzerland was just easier, plus the paychecks are better there.😁

Richard Wilson4 said:I reckon there are still more Americans living in the USA and Canada—not a massive amount, but still more. Your crowd is just newer and hasn't fully blended in yet...

Man, you're way off... According to the latest census data from the States, fewer than 200,000 Mexicans identified themselves, while the American count was north of 400 😁