Dealing with jealousy

But someone who truly LOVES, rather than just claims to, how could they ever feel jealousy? Love isn't about attachment or being possessive; it’s the polar opposite. It simply excludes jealousy entirely.

Drew Morgan said:But someone who truly LOVES, rather than just claims to, how could they ever feel jealousy? Love isn't about attachment or being possessive; it’s the polar opposite. It simply excludes jealousy entirely.

That sounds more like saintly or even divine love.

Needing someone doesn't automatically equal being possessive. You're leaning toward extremes here... is it either divine love or toxic obsession? There's no middle ground? 😬

Most people fall somewhere in between those two poles. Some lean one way, some the other. Because of that, I think it's fair to say everyone experiences at least a little bit of jealousy. For some, it's minimal; for others, it's intense. It’s a spectrum, not a binary "yes or no" situation.

lonegardener said:How am I exaggerating? If love really is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to worry that those levels will eventually "level out" for you while spiking all over again for someone else. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). In fact, it's just as reasonable to fear that this has already happened and the relationship is being kept alive solely by inertia on the other person's part.

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it stands to reason that feeling jealous in these circumstances makes total sense. It would actually be more illogical *not* to feel it, or to blindly "trust" a love that is nothing more than a chemical fluctuation. Therefore, if someone doesn't feel jealousy, they aren't even experiencing that hormonal version of love, let alone anything deeper.

Or perhaps his level of faith is just incredibly intense... but even then, I have to wonder what kind of foundation that "faith" is built on. I won't even get into my thoughts on the advice being handed out here... 😬 😈

You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

Sean Cruz said:You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

I don't quite follow that logic... It’s like you're claiming "X" definitely exists, but we're all just using different definitions for it. For one person, "X" might be nothing more than lounging on the sofa watching Netflix, while for someone else, it could be anything from skydiving to bungee jumping. 🤣
The core issue is that whenever someone uses the word "love," they’re usually just using a vague placeholder. In almost every instance, you could find a much more precise term—or a specific combination of terms—that actually describes what that person is feeling. That’s why I don't really see the utility in such a broad label; more often than not, it just leads to unnecessary misunderstandings.

I tend to view the concept of "love" through a mystical lens. But since I’m a general atheist, that creates a bit of a paradox: if I don't believe in the mystical, I struggle to believe in "love" as such a lofty, ethereal thing. It’s a bit of a catch-22, isn't it? Instead, I prefer using more grounded terms. To me, what people call love is really just a specific blend of attraction, affinity, benevolence, loyalty, and trust. Don't you think those terms provide much more clarity? 🤷

Sean Cruz said:You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

It’s even more straightforward than people realize. Like I mentioned before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you'll lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone is being selfish toward their partner, that jealousy is bound to show up—it's essentially just the fear of losing what they think they currently possess.

Sean Cruz said:You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

Exactly. Isn't that just old-school wisdom? "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who seems much, much "better" for anyone. But why would you let go of the bird you're actually holding 🤣 just to chase after a pigeon you might never even catch?

Sean Cruz said:You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

That's not really an epiphany; it's more like self-consolation. But hey, that's fine. Everyone needs a little comfort now and then...

Sean Cruz said:You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

Excessive jealousy leads to destruction, provided the relationship is asymmetrical. In other words, the "overly jealous" person is deeply attached, while the other party isn't quite feeling it. It goes back to what I mentioned earlier: the idea of settling for "anything rather than nothing." 😠
Or, they're with you because there's nothing better on the horizon right now... which doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay "on guard," don't you? Otherwise, you might miss a better opportunity and spend your whole life without ever seeing what else is out there. 😬

The other question is how people tolerate one another if they both secretly go through these kinds of mental gymnastics. To me, that's a total mystery.

Sean Cruz said:You’re exaggerating by claiming "love" doesn't exist. 😁 It’s obvious there is something we call "love"; the real question is how each of us experiences it—essentially, what we choose to believe love actually is. 🤣
Quincy:

If love is just a hormonal imbalance, then it’s perfectly logical to fear that this imbalance will eventually "level out" for you, only to be triggered again by some other woman. (And vice versa, of course. 😬). Furthermore, it’s a reasonable fear that this has already happened, and that the "relationship" is being sustained solely by inertia on the other person's part.

I agree with that, though when you accept that nothing lasts forever—not even love—then jealousy becomes less intense. In fact, it seems inversely proportional to the number of years spent in a relationship. 🤣

Quincy:

Since jealousy is essentially the "fear of losing something perceived as valuable," it follows that feeling jealous in these circumstances is entirely logical. It would be irrational *not* to feel it, or to blindly "believe" in a love that is merely a hormonal fluke. Therefore, anyone who doesn't feel jealousy doesn't even love in that hormonal sense, let alone any other way.

I agree that jealousy belongs in romantic relationships, but how can there be jealousy where people don't even believe in love?
Do you really think people realize that "love" is an illusion, yet they still care enough about their partner that they fear losing them to someone they know is objectively better? 🤔
Quincy:

Or perhaps his faith is incredibly intense... though even then, I find myself wondering what the actual foundation of that "faith" is.

There is no "faith" involved—at least not in my case. I am fully aware that nothing lasts forever, and I refuse to waste my energy worrying about whether my partner might cheat on me instead of, say, peacefully scrolling through Reddit. 🤣

Quincy:

I won't even get started on what I think of the advice being given here... 😬😈

Dismissing mental health concerns is just ridiculous, but let's be real: excessive jealousy is a relationship killer. It can drive your partner straight into the arms of someone who isn't even an upgrade—someone arguably worse than you—just because they offer a sense of peace you couldn't provide. 😁
Quincy:

So, I’d say it’s fair to assume everyone feels at least a little bit of jealousy. Some people deal with a tiny amount, while others struggle with it constantly.

I'm on board with that. You can't have true love without a hint of jealousy; if there's absolutely none, then what you're feeling probably isn't actually love.

Now that's a debate for Drew Morgan, LOL.

It’s honestly such a relief to know I’m not the only one who’s actually considered seeing a therapist...😁
Of course, I wouldn't go telling just anyone about that.

Maybe if I were more self-assured—if I were just a slightly different breed of person (I tend to overanalyze things that people with actual luck don't even give a second thought to)—I wouldn't be feeling this completely unhinged.

For me, the thing that keeps me up at night is that invisible kind of betrayal—the idea that he might be crushing on someone else while he's sitting right there next to me. And then we don't even break up; I just sit there feeling humiliated because I had no clue.
There is nothing worse than being in a relationship that lacks any real, living passion. It strips away your dignity as a woman, and to me, that's the absolute worst part.
It’s just as soul-crushing to exist while feeling spiritually dead, drifting without any ideals to hold onto.
The thing is, I know for a fact that in every serious relationship he’s had before me, there were other women he was interested in. Is it even possible that what he says is true? That those stories were different and what he has with me is something entirely unique?
If that isn't the case, then losing him would be a tragedy. I don't just need someone to occupy a space in a relationship or a marriage—that's not enough. If I lost the real thing, I'd be losing the most precious thing I own, and even if I found the strength to forgive, I'd still be left empty-handed.😢

lonegardener said:I don't quite follow that logic... It’s like you're claiming "X" definitely exists, but we're all just using different definitions for it. For one person, "X" might be nothing more than lounging on the sofa watching Netflix, while for someone else, it could be anything from skydiving to bungee jumping. 🤣
The core issue is that whenever someone uses the word "love," they’re usually just using a vague placeholder. In almost every instance, you could find a much more precise term—or a specific combination of terms—that actually describes what that person is feeling. That’s why I don't really see the utility in such a broad label; more often than not, it just leads to unnecessary misunderstandings.

I tend to view the concept of "love" through a mystical lens. But since I’m a general atheist, that creates a bit of a paradox: if I don't believe in the mystical, I struggle to believe in "love" as such a lofty, ethereal thing. It’s a bit of a catch-22, isn't it? Instead, I prefer using more grounded terms. To me, what people call love is really just a specific blend of attraction, affinity, benevolence, loyalty, and trust. Don't you think those terms provide much more clarity? 🤷

It’s even more straightforward than people realize. Like I mentioned before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you'll lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone is being selfish toward their partner, that jealousy is bound to show up—it's essentially just the fear of losing what they think they currently possess.

Exactly. Isn't that just old-school wisdom? "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who seems much, much "better" for anyone. But why would you let go of the bird you're actually holding 🤣 just to chase after a pigeon you might never even catch?

That's not really an epiphany; it's more like self-consolation. But hey, that's fine. Everyone needs a little comfort now and then...

Excessive jealousy leads to destruction, provided the relationship is asymmetrical. In other words, the "overly jealous" person is deeply attached, while the other party isn't quite feeling it. It goes back to what I mentioned earlier: the idea of settling for "anything rather than nothing." 😠
Or, they're with you because there's nothing better on the horizon right now... which doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay "on guard," don't you? Otherwise, you might miss a better opportunity and spend your whole life without ever seeing what else is out there. 😬

The other question is how people tolerate one another if they both secretly go through these kinds of mental gymnastics. To me, that's a total mystery.

Now that's a debate for Drew Morgan, LOL.

You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

lonegardener said:That sounds more like saintly or even divine love.

Needing someone doesn't automatically equal being possessive. You're leaning toward extremes here... is it either divine love or toxic obsession? There's no middle ground? 😬

Most people fall somewhere in between those two poles. Some lean one way, some the other. Because of that, I think it's fair to say everyone experiences at least a little bit of jealousy. For some, it's minimal; for others, it's intense. It’s a spectrum, not a binary "yes or no" situation.

I agree with that; that's the ideal we should aim for, even if most of us land in the middle. However, my stance remains: overwhelming jealousy isn't proof of love—it's actually evidence of its absence. Anyone who feels it as their primary emotion should probably question their capacity to truly love.

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

Is it a genuine feeling, or am I just chasing an illusion... xexexe Quote

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

That’s one (well, two) ingredients in the messy cocktail we call 'love,' but it isn't the only one.

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

An agnostic, 98% atheist LOL.

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

Exactly. That's what I mean. You know how it goes: he says, "I'd do anything for you," and she replies, "Then let me go," and he starts stammering, "But... I mean..." 'Anything' my foot, LOL.
So, in those circumstances, truly "letting go" would indeed be the greatest act of love. But if someone thinks they wouldn't feel even a hint of jealousy in that situation, they're basically claiming to be a saint.

Sean Cruz
It’s just human nature to feel pain when you lose someone you love. Heck, we even feel jealousy if that person finds happiness in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying that and labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder."

I find myself wondering the same thing. 🤷 Judging by some folks here (cough), you're supposed to just "understand" that it's all in your head, under your control, your responsibility... and so on. 😬 — and apparently, that should magically make the feeling vanish. Well, maybe it would, but you could also make it disappear with a lobotomy or by getting high. 🤷

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

You won't. But that's a whole different conversation.

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

😬 Well, now you're doing exactly what you were questioning two paragraphs ago, haha. Realizing the facts doesn't necessarily kill the nasty feeling. You still need comfort.

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

🤷 That all comes back to the idea of "something is better than nothing"... which is why I say relationships are mostly logically nonsensical, and perhaps even in every single case. 😈

Sean Cruz said:You experience love as something mystical because you feel its weight, yet finding the right words to describe it feels almost impossible. It’s one of those things that defies explanation. Ernest Hemingway once captured this perfectly when he described love and friendship as simply "that which happens," leaving us to wonder exactly why.
To me, love is best defined through concepts. Closeness. i Commitment. It’s that moment when all the masks finally slip, leaving you completely exposed before the person you love. That is the closest definition I can find. I agree with you—it's much better to find different ways to express it. Honestly, the most nonsensical phrase of all is "I love you." It sounds so hollow to me that the moment someone actually says it, that's exactly when I start doubting if they even mean it. 🤣
It just occurred to me: if you view the concept of love through a "mystical" lens, can you honestly still call yourself an atheist? 😬

It’s even easier to spot in those places. As I’ve said before, jealousy is really just a byproduct of fearing you might lose something you perceive as valuable. So, when someone acts selfishly toward their partner, they're essentially driven by that fear—the dread that they might lose what they currently believe belongs to them.

That borders on being possessive. Actually, now that I think about it, there’s a razor-thin line between possession and jealousy. The ultimate act of love would be to "let go" to ensure the person we love finds happiness—even if that happiness doesn't include us. However, I suspect that perspective feels devastatingly hollow to the one being left behind. It is simply human nature to feel pain when losing someone you care about, and frankly, to feel jealous if that person finds bliss in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying this or labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder." 🤷

It’s essentially that old adage: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Sure, there’s always someone out there who is infinitely "better" suited for any given role, or some grander opportunity waiting just around the corner. But honestly, why would you let go of what you actually have right now just to chase a shadow? 🤣 If you were going out to hunt pigeons—assuming you even managed to catch one—which kind would you go after?

Hunting for the right pigeon would be quite the challenge, but how can you ever be sure it’s actually the one you’re looking for?

It’s not about gaining insight; it’s just how you comfort yourself. But hey, that’s fine—everyone needs a little solace now and then.

I wouldn't call this comfort; it's more like an acceptance of reality. You can't actually "prevent" anyone from doing what they set their mind to if that’s what they truly want to do. And honestly, why bother beating yourself up over it? You can't stop bullshit from happening—you can only be aware that it is.

Excessive jealousy is a fast track to self-destruction, especially when the relationship is one-sided. When one partner is obsessively jealous, it’s usually because they’re clinging to someone who isn't actually invested in them. It boils down to that bleak principle: "anything is better than nothing." 😠
Look, I'm sticking with you because, frankly, there isn't anything better on the horizon right now... though that doesn't mean something won't pop up tomorrow. You have to stay sharp. If you aren't paying attention, you might just let a massive opportunity slip through your fingers, wasting your life by failing to make the most of the options actually sitting in front of you. 😬

In relationships, that dynamic is almost always asymmetrical. One person inevitably cares more than the other. I suspect truly symmetrical connections are incredibly rare—if they even exist at all.

It’s a completely different matter how people actually tolerate one another when they both know, fundamentally, that these kinds of mental processes are happening on both sides. To me, honestly, it's a total mystery.

To would be my definition of an "ideal relationship." Is there anything more beautiful than complete, unvarnished honesty?

To have a discussion with Drew Morgan, LOL.

I can't think of anything. 🤣

😬 Honesty alone isn't enough. Not even close. If you tell someone straight to their face that you absolutely despise them, should they be happy because you were being so "honest"? LOL.

I mean, obviously lying isn't "better"—and I definitely prefer being truthful. But that specific kind of "honesty"—the "let's stay together until someone better comes along" variety😬 doesn't exactly strike me as an attractive foundation for a real relationship.

Because if that’s actually how things stand, you have to wonder why you'd even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship" in the first place. 🤷 In a situation like that, "friends with benefits" is probably a much more accurate description, LOL.

lonegardener said:Is it a genuine feeling, or am I just chasing an illusion... xexexe Quote

That’s one (well, two) ingredients in the messy cocktail we call 'love,' but it isn't the only one.

An agnostic, 98% atheist LOL.

Exactly. That's what I mean. You know how it goes: he says, "I'd do anything for you," and she replies, "Then let me go," and he starts stammering, "But... I mean..." 'Anything' my foot, LOL.
So, in those circumstances, truly "letting go" would indeed be the greatest act of love. But if someone thinks they wouldn't feel even a hint of jealousy in that situation, they're basically claiming to be a saint.

Sean Cruz
It’s just human nature to feel pain when you lose someone you love. Heck, we even feel jealousy if that person finds happiness in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying that and labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder."

I find myself wondering the same thing. 🤷 Judging by some folks here (cough), you're supposed to just "understand" that it's all in your head, under your control, your responsibility... and so on. 😬 — and apparently, that should magically make the feeling vanish. Well, maybe it would, but you could also make it disappear with a lobotomy or by getting high. 🤷

You won't. But that's a whole different conversation.

😬 Well, now you're doing exactly what you were questioning two paragraphs ago, haha. Realizing the facts doesn't necessarily kill the nasty feeling. You still need comfort.

🤷 That all comes back to the idea of "something is better than nothing"... which is why I say relationships are mostly logically nonsensical, and perhaps even in every single case. 😈

😬 Honesty alone isn't enough. Not even close. If you tell someone straight to their face that you absolutely despise them, should they be happy because you were being so "honest"? LOL.

I mean, obviously lying isn't "better"—and I definitely prefer being truthful. But that specific kind of "honesty"—the "let's stay together until someone better comes along" variety😬 doesn't exactly strike me as an attractive foundation for a real relationship.

Because if that’s actually how things stand, you have to wonder why you'd even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship" in the first place. 🤷 In a situation like that, "friends with benefits" is probably a much more accurate description, LOL.

Sure, but at least you can walk away from someone who just hates on you because the truth stings. Honestly? It might actually hurt even more if that truth was kept hidden for this long.

lonegardener said:Is it a genuine feeling, or am I just chasing an illusion... xexexe Quote

That’s one (well, two) ingredients in the messy cocktail we call 'love,' but it isn't the only one.

An agnostic, 98% atheist LOL.

Exactly. That's what I mean. You know how it goes: he says, "I'd do anything for you," and she replies, "Then let me go," and he starts stammering, "But... I mean..." 'Anything' my foot, LOL.
So, in those circumstances, truly "letting go" would indeed be the greatest act of love. But if someone thinks they wouldn't feel even a hint of jealousy in that situation, they're basically claiming to be a saint.

Sean Cruz
It’s just human nature to feel pain when you lose someone you love. Heck, we even feel jealousy if that person finds happiness in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying that and labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder."

I find myself wondering the same thing. 🤷 Judging by some folks here (cough), you're supposed to just "understand" that it's all in your head, under your control, your responsibility... and so on. 😬 — and apparently, that should magically make the feeling vanish. Well, maybe it would, but you could also make it disappear with a lobotomy or by getting high. 🤷

You won't. But that's a whole different conversation.

😬 Well, now you're doing exactly what you were questioning two paragraphs ago, haha. Realizing the facts doesn't necessarily kill the nasty feeling. You still need comfort.

🤷 That all comes back to the idea of "something is better than nothing"... which is why I say relationships are mostly logically nonsensical, and perhaps even in every single case. 😈

😬 Honesty alone isn't enough. Not even close. If you tell someone straight to their face that you absolutely despise them, should they be happy because you were being so "honest"? LOL.

I mean, obviously lying isn't "better"—and I definitely prefer being truthful. But that specific kind of "honesty"—the "let's stay together until someone better comes along" variety😬 doesn't exactly strike me as an attractive foundation for a real relationship.

Because if that’s actually how things stand, you have to wonder why you'd even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship" in the first place. 🤷 In a situation like that, "friends with benefits" is probably a much more accurate description, LOL.

Exactly.☕

lonegardener said:Is it a genuine feeling, or am I just chasing an illusion... xexexe Quote

That’s one (well, two) ingredients in the messy cocktail we call 'love,' but it isn't the only one.

An agnostic, 98% atheist LOL.

Exactly. That's what I mean. You know how it goes: he says, "I'd do anything for you," and she replies, "Then let me go," and he starts stammering, "But... I mean..." 'Anything' my foot, LOL.
So, in those circumstances, truly "letting go" would indeed be the greatest act of love. But if someone thinks they wouldn't feel even a hint of jealousy in that situation, they're basically claiming to be a saint.

Sean Cruz
It’s just human nature to feel pain when you lose someone you love. Heck, we even feel jealousy if that person finds happiness in someone else's arms. I don't understand why people insist on denying that and labeling the feeling as some kind of "disorder."

I find myself wondering the same thing. 🤷 Judging by some folks here (cough), you're supposed to just "understand" that it's all in your head, under your control, your responsibility... and so on. 😬 — and apparently, that should magically make the feeling vanish. Well, maybe it would, but you could also make it disappear with a lobotomy or by getting high. 🤷

You won't. But that's a whole different conversation.

😬 Well, now you're doing exactly what you were questioning two paragraphs ago, haha. Realizing the facts doesn't necessarily kill the nasty feeling. You still need comfort.

🤷 That all comes back to the idea of "something is better than nothing"... which is why I say relationships are mostly logically nonsensical, and perhaps even in every single case. 😈

😬 Honesty alone isn't enough. Not even close. If you tell someone straight to their face that you absolutely despise them, should they be happy because you were being so "honest"? LOL.

I mean, obviously lying isn't "better"—and I definitely prefer being truthful. But that specific kind of "honesty"—the "let's stay together until someone better comes along" variety😬 doesn't exactly strike me as an attractive foundation for a real relationship.

Because if that’s actually how things stand, you have to wonder why you'd even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship" in the first place. 🤷 In a situation like that, "friends with benefits" is probably a much more accurate description, LOL.

It’s neither snow nor swans. 😁

That’s just one—well, two—of the ingredients in the messy concoction they call "love," but it certainly isn't the only one.

There’s also an element of attraction involved, though I suppose that’s a given.

I’m an agnostic—which is basically just a polite way of saying I'm 98% atheist. LOL.

Did you end up taking that spirituality assessment? 🤣 Me too, though I don't fit any of those descriptions.

Letting go would truly be the ultimate act of love under these circumstances. But if anyone honestly believes they wouldn't feel a bitter sting of jealousy in this situation, then they’re clearly giving themselves far too much credit—they're acting like they've got a halo.

Some people claim they can pull that off—they’re probably operating on some "higher" plane than I am. Personally, I don't see myself ever reaching that level. People often label jealousy as mere selfishness, but that logic doesn't hold water for me. At its core, romantic love is inherently selfish. I truly cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not feeling a shred of jealousy when the person they love is with someone else, much less being happy for them about it. 🙄

I find myself wondering the same thing. Judging by some of the people in this thread (cough), you’d think one could just "realize" that everything is happening inside their own head—that it's all under their control, their responsibility, and so on. And then, apparently, that feeling is supposed to just magically vanish. I don't know. Maybe it would disappear, but you’d also get rid of it if you went in for a lobotomy or decided to get high.

I’d honestly rather undergo a lobotomy. 😁

Well, now you’re doing exactly what you were questioning just two paragraphs ago. Honestly. Realizing the cold, hard truth doesn't necessarily have to kill that unpleasant feeling, though I suppose you could still use a little comfort.

Under your definition of "facts," I assume every man—unless he’s blind—is supposed to see it. 😬Sure, he might check out an attractive woman. But why on earth would I go out and cause trouble just because of that? Honestly, what bugs me more is when he stares and I *know* he’s staring, yet he has the nerve to look me in the eye and claim he isn't. It’s that feeling that, in his mind, I’m the only one who exists—as if he can just ignore reality to keep me happy. 🙄 Well, that's exactly what sets me off—literally. 😳

It always comes back to that "better than nothing" mentality. That’s exactly why I argue that relationships are mostly—if not entirely—illogical.

Logically speaking, they make zero sense. But humans have this innate, desperate need to be loved and to feel connected—we’re social animals, after all. Besides, you can't exactly "rationally" perceive love, so logic isn't even part of the equation. 😁

Honesty isn't enough. Not even close. If you look someone straight in the eye and tell them you despise them from the bottom of your soul, should they really be thanking you for your "beautiful transparency"? LOL.

I tend to swing between intense affection and total disdain in the same breath. Usually, I’m pretty upfront about it, too. 🤣 Look, I’ll be blunt: I tend to be brutally honest. Most of the time.

Look, I’m not saying cheating is "better"—honestly, I value sincerity far more than that. But this specific brand of "honesty" where people say, "Let's just stay together until someone better comes along"? That doesn't exactly strike me as a rock-solid foundation for a relationship.

I’m certainly no saint. I might indulge in a little white lie now and then, but for the most part, I’m an open book. To me, honesty is the bedrock of any relationship. It’s actually absurd that you think my "greatest love" started in a way that contradicts your definition of a solid foundation. Honestly, it would have been the romance of the century if we hadn't gone our separate ways. 😬

I mean, if that’s really how things stand, you have to wonder why anyone would even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship." If that's the case, "friends with benefits" is a much more accurate way to put it, LOL.

I’ve never been a fan of the whole "open relationship" concept—in my experience, it’s usually a total mess. I haven't personally ventured down that path, but watching the people around me, it's clear that these arrangements are rarely as "free" as they claim to be. It’s almost never a win-win situation. There is always one person who ends up more emotionally invested, essentially playing the martyr just so the other person can do whatever they want without feeling guilty.

steeltiger2 said:Sure, but at least you can walk away from someone who just hates on you because the truth stings. Honestly? It might actually hurt even more if that truth was kept hidden for this long.

Exactly.☕

Exactly, and that’s precisely why I value honesty. My point was just that *that kind* of honesty isn't automatically the "foundation" for an "ideal relationship" LOL.

Of course it isn't "better" if it's built on deception. But just because torturing someone is worse than shooting them in the face doesn't mean the latter is actually a good thing. 😬

Sean Cruz said:It’s neither snow nor swans. 😁

That’s just one—well, two—of the ingredients in the messy concoction they call "love," but it certainly isn't the only one.

There’s also an element of attraction involved, though I suppose that’s a given.

I’m an agnostic—which is basically just a polite way of saying I'm 98% atheist. LOL.

Did you end up taking that spirituality assessment? 🤣 Me too, though I don't fit any of those descriptions.

Letting go would truly be the ultimate act of love under these circumstances. But if anyone honestly believes they wouldn't feel a bitter sting of jealousy in this situation, then they’re clearly giving themselves far too much credit—they're acting like they've got a halo.

Some people claim they can pull that off—they’re probably operating on some "higher" plane than I am. Personally, I don't see myself ever reaching that level. People often label jealousy as mere selfishness, but that logic doesn't hold water for me. At its core, romantic love is inherently selfish. I truly cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not feeling a shred of jealousy when the person they love is with someone else, much less being happy for them about it. 🙄

I find myself wondering the same thing. Judging by some of the people in this thread (cough), you’d think one could just "realize" that everything is happening inside their own head—that it's all under their control, their responsibility, and so on. And then, apparently, that feeling is supposed to just magically vanish. I don't know. Maybe it would disappear, but you’d also get rid of it if you went in for a lobotomy or decided to get high.

I’d honestly rather undergo a lobotomy. 😁

Well, now you’re doing exactly what you were questioning just two paragraphs ago. Honestly. Realizing the cold, hard truth doesn't necessarily have to kill that unpleasant feeling, though I suppose you could still use a little comfort.

Under your definition of "facts," I assume every man—unless he’s blind—is supposed to see it. 😬Sure, he might check out an attractive woman. But why on earth would I go out and cause trouble just because of that? Honestly, what bugs me more is when he stares and I *know* he’s staring, yet he has the nerve to look me in the eye and claim he isn't. It’s that feeling that, in his mind, I’m the only one who exists—as if he can just ignore reality to keep me happy. 🙄 Well, that's exactly what sets me off—literally. 😳

It always comes back to that "better than nothing" mentality. That’s exactly why I argue that relationships are mostly—if not entirely—illogical.

Logically speaking, they make zero sense. But humans have this innate, desperate need to be loved and to feel connected—we’re social animals, after all. Besides, you can't exactly "rationally" perceive love, so logic isn't even part of the equation. 😁

Honesty isn't enough. Not even close. If you look someone straight in the eye and tell them you despise them from the bottom of your soul, should they really be thanking you for your "beautiful transparency"? LOL.

I tend to swing between intense affection and total disdain in the same breath. Usually, I’m pretty upfront about it, too. 🤣 Look, I’ll be blunt: I tend to be brutally honest. Most of the time.

Look, I’m not saying cheating is "better"—honestly, I value sincerity far more than that. But this specific brand of "honesty" where people say, "Let's just stay together until someone better comes along"? That doesn't exactly strike me as a rock-solid foundation for a relationship.

I’m certainly no saint. I might indulge in a little white lie now and then, but for the most part, I’m an open book. To me, honesty is the bedrock of any relationship. It’s actually absurd that you think my "greatest love" started in a way that contradicts your definition of a solid foundation. Honestly, it would have been the romance of the century if we hadn't gone our separate ways. 😬

I mean, if that’s really how things stand, you have to wonder why anyone would even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship." If that's the case, "friends with benefits" is a much more accurate way to put it, LOL.

I’ve never been a fan of the whole "open relationship" concept—in my experience, it’s usually a total mess. I haven't personally ventured down that path, but watching the people around me, it's clear that these arrangements are rarely as "free" as they claim to be. It’s almost never a win-win situation. There is always one person who ends up more emotionally invested, essentially playing the martyr just so the other person can do whatever they want without feeling guilty.

I don't know, I'm not really fond of using the word "selfish" here. Why call it selfishness? To me, a feeling isn't selfish—actions are. I don't view certain types of jealousy as an "expression of selfishness." It's just a negative emotion resulting from a realization or an insight (or sometimes a delusion). That feeling itself isn't selfish; it only becomes selfish depending on how you choose to act when you feel it.

Sean Cruz said:It’s neither snow nor swans. 😁

That’s just one—well, two—of the ingredients in the messy concoction they call "love," but it certainly isn't the only one.

There’s also an element of attraction involved, though I suppose that’s a given.

I’m an agnostic—which is basically just a polite way of saying I'm 98% atheist. LOL.

Did you end up taking that spirituality assessment? 🤣 Me too, though I don't fit any of those descriptions.

Letting go would truly be the ultimate act of love under these circumstances. But if anyone honestly believes they wouldn't feel a bitter sting of jealousy in this situation, then they’re clearly giving themselves far too much credit—they're acting like they've got a halo.

Some people claim they can pull that off—they’re probably operating on some "higher" plane than I am. Personally, I don't see myself ever reaching that level. People often label jealousy as mere selfishness, but that logic doesn't hold water for me. At its core, romantic love is inherently selfish. I truly cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not feeling a shred of jealousy when the person they love is with someone else, much less being happy for them about it. 🙄

I find myself wondering the same thing. Judging by some of the people in this thread (cough), you’d think one could just "realize" that everything is happening inside their own head—that it's all under their control, their responsibility, and so on. And then, apparently, that feeling is supposed to just magically vanish. I don't know. Maybe it would disappear, but you’d also get rid of it if you went in for a lobotomy or decided to get high.

I’d honestly rather undergo a lobotomy. 😁

Well, now you’re doing exactly what you were questioning just two paragraphs ago. Honestly. Realizing the cold, hard truth doesn't necessarily have to kill that unpleasant feeling, though I suppose you could still use a little comfort.

Under your definition of "facts," I assume every man—unless he’s blind—is supposed to see it. 😬Sure, he might check out an attractive woman. But why on earth would I go out and cause trouble just because of that? Honestly, what bugs me more is when he stares and I *know* he’s staring, yet he has the nerve to look me in the eye and claim he isn't. It’s that feeling that, in his mind, I’m the only one who exists—as if he can just ignore reality to keep me happy. 🙄 Well, that's exactly what sets me off—literally. 😳

It always comes back to that "better than nothing" mentality. That’s exactly why I argue that relationships are mostly—if not entirely—illogical.

Logically speaking, they make zero sense. But humans have this innate, desperate need to be loved and to feel connected—we’re social animals, after all. Besides, you can't exactly "rationally" perceive love, so logic isn't even part of the equation. 😁

Honesty isn't enough. Not even close. If you look someone straight in the eye and tell them you despise them from the bottom of your soul, should they really be thanking you for your "beautiful transparency"? LOL.

I tend to swing between intense affection and total disdain in the same breath. Usually, I’m pretty upfront about it, too. 🤣 Look, I’ll be blunt: I tend to be brutally honest. Most of the time.

Look, I’m not saying cheating is "better"—honestly, I value sincerity far more than that. But this specific brand of "honesty" where people say, "Let's just stay together until someone better comes along"? That doesn't exactly strike me as a rock-solid foundation for a relationship.

I’m certainly no saint. I might indulge in a little white lie now and then, but for the most part, I’m an open book. To me, honesty is the bedrock of any relationship. It’s actually absurd that you think my "greatest love" started in a way that contradicts your definition of a solid foundation. Honestly, it would have been the romance of the century if we hadn't gone our separate ways. 😬

I mean, if that’s really how things stand, you have to wonder why anyone would even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship." If that's the case, "friends with benefits" is a much more accurate way to put it, LOL.

I’ve never been a fan of the whole "open relationship" concept—in my experience, it’s usually a total mess. I haven't personally ventured down that path, but watching the people around me, it's clear that these arrangements are rarely as "free" as they claim to be. It’s almost never a win-win situation. There is always one person who ends up more emotionally invested, essentially playing the martyr just so the other person can do whatever they want without feeling guilty.

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬
I'll say it again: the point isn't what you notice, whether you want to or not. The point is your intentions, your plans, and your motives. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively wondering how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a real possibility.

Sean Cruz said:It’s neither snow nor swans. 😁

That’s just one—well, two—of the ingredients in the messy concoction they call "love," but it certainly isn't the only one.

There’s also an element of attraction involved, though I suppose that’s a given.

I’m an agnostic—which is basically just a polite way of saying I'm 98% atheist. LOL.

Did you end up taking that spirituality assessment? 🤣 Me too, though I don't fit any of those descriptions.

Letting go would truly be the ultimate act of love under these circumstances. But if anyone honestly believes they wouldn't feel a bitter sting of jealousy in this situation, then they’re clearly giving themselves far too much credit—they're acting like they've got a halo.

Some people claim they can pull that off—they’re probably operating on some "higher" plane than I am. Personally, I don't see myself ever reaching that level. People often label jealousy as mere selfishness, but that logic doesn't hold water for me. At its core, romantic love is inherently selfish. I truly cannot wrap my head around the idea of someone not feeling a shred of jealousy when the person they love is with someone else, much less being happy for them about it. 🙄

I find myself wondering the same thing. Judging by some of the people in this thread (cough), you’d think one could just "realize" that everything is happening inside their own head—that it's all under their control, their responsibility, and so on. And then, apparently, that feeling is supposed to just magically vanish. I don't know. Maybe it would disappear, but you’d also get rid of it if you went in for a lobotomy or decided to get high.

I’d honestly rather undergo a lobotomy. 😁

Well, now you’re doing exactly what you were questioning just two paragraphs ago. Honestly. Realizing the cold, hard truth doesn't necessarily have to kill that unpleasant feeling, though I suppose you could still use a little comfort.

Under your definition of "facts," I assume every man—unless he’s blind—is supposed to see it. 😬Sure, he might check out an attractive woman. But why on earth would I go out and cause trouble just because of that? Honestly, what bugs me more is when he stares and I *know* he’s staring, yet he has the nerve to look me in the eye and claim he isn't. It’s that feeling that, in his mind, I’m the only one who exists—as if he can just ignore reality to keep me happy. 🙄 Well, that's exactly what sets me off—literally. 😳

It always comes back to that "better than nothing" mentality. That’s exactly why I argue that relationships are mostly—if not entirely—illogical.

Logically speaking, they make zero sense. But humans have this innate, desperate need to be loved and to feel connected—we’re social animals, after all. Besides, you can't exactly "rationally" perceive love, so logic isn't even part of the equation. 😁

Honesty isn't enough. Not even close. If you look someone straight in the eye and tell them you despise them from the bottom of your soul, should they really be thanking you for your "beautiful transparency"? LOL.

I tend to swing between intense affection and total disdain in the same breath. Usually, I’m pretty upfront about it, too. 🤣 Look, I’ll be blunt: I tend to be brutally honest. Most of the time.

Look, I’m not saying cheating is "better"—honestly, I value sincerity far more than that. But this specific brand of "honesty" where people say, "Let's just stay together until someone better comes along"? That doesn't exactly strike me as a rock-solid foundation for a relationship.

I’m certainly no saint. I might indulge in a little white lie now and then, but for the most part, I’m an open book. To me, honesty is the bedrock of any relationship. It’s actually absurd that you think my "greatest love" started in a way that contradicts your definition of a solid foundation. Honestly, it would have been the romance of the century if we hadn't gone our separate ways. 😬

I mean, if that’s really how things stand, you have to wonder why anyone would even bother "formalizing" the arrangement or calling it a "relationship." If that's the case, "friends with benefits" is a much more accurate way to put it, LOL.

I’ve never been a fan of the whole "open relationship" concept—in my experience, it’s usually a total mess. I haven't personally ventured down that path, but watching the people around me, it's clear that these arrangements are rarely as "free" as they claim to be. It’s almost never a win-win situation. There is always one person who ends up more emotionally invested, essentially playing the martyr just so the other person can do whatever they want without feeling guilty.

Haha, well, you basically answered your own question. You started this way, and you’re ending it the same way. I’m not saying I’m any smarter than you... I’m just being brutally honest, heh.

Let me reiterate: honesty is one of the fundamental pillars, and without it, nothing works. But on its own? It isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't define things differently—if that's how you see it, then that's your prerogative. For me, though, I define things a bit differently, for better or for worse.

I’ve trimmed this down a bit—don't want us getting too far off track...

lonegardener said:Exactly, and that’s precisely why I value honesty. My point was just that *that kind* of honesty isn't automatically the "foundation" for an "ideal relationship" LOL.

Of course it isn't "better" if it's built on deception. But just because torturing someone is worse than shooting them in the face doesn't mean the latter is actually a good thing. 😬

I don't know, I'm not really fond of using the word "selfish" here. Why call it selfishness? To me, a feeling isn't selfish—actions are. I don't view certain types of jealousy as an "expression of selfishness." It's just a negative emotion resulting from a realization or an insight (or sometimes a delusion). That feeling itself isn't selfish; it only becomes selfish depending on how you choose to act when you feel it.

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬
I'll say it again: the point isn't what you notice, whether you want to or not. The point is your intentions, your plans, and your motives. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively wondering how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a real possibility.

Haha, well, you basically answered your own question. You started this way, and you’re ending it the same way. I’m not saying I’m any smarter than you... I’m just being brutally honest, heh.

Let me reiterate: honesty is one of the fundamental pillars, and without it, nothing works. But on its own? It isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't define things differently—if that's how you see it, then that's your prerogative. For me, though, I define things a bit differently, for better or for worse.

I’ve trimmed this down a bit—don't want us getting too far off track...

When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

lonegardener said:Exactly, and that’s precisely why I value honesty. My point was just that *that kind* of honesty isn't automatically the "foundation" for an "ideal relationship" LOL.

Of course it isn't "better" if it's built on deception. But just because torturing someone is worse than shooting them in the face doesn't mean the latter is actually a good thing. 😬

I don't know, I'm not really fond of using the word "selfish" here. Why call it selfishness? To me, a feeling isn't selfish—actions are. I don't view certain types of jealousy as an "expression of selfishness." It's just a negative emotion resulting from a realization or an insight (or sometimes a delusion). That feeling itself isn't selfish; it only becomes selfish depending on how you choose to act when you feel it.

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬
I'll say it again: the point isn't what you notice, whether you want to or not. The point is your intentions, your plans, and your motives. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively wondering how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a real possibility.

Haha, well, you basically answered your own question. You started this way, and you’re ending it the same way. I’m not saying I’m any smarter than you... I’m just being brutally honest, heh.

Let me reiterate: honesty is one of the fundamental pillars, and without it, nothing works. But on its own? It isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't define things differently—if that's how you see it, then that's your prerogative. For me, though, I define things a bit differently, for better or for worse.

I’ve trimmed this down a bit—don't want us getting too far off track...

It can definitely turn selfish if your partner ends up bearing the brunt of it through no fault of their own, especially if you aren't even trying to reflect on your own behavior.
Take me, for example. I have this habit of stewing in silence for days on end because I tell myself that if I just hold it in, maybe things will blow over. But then, more often than not, I just snap, and suddenly there's a massive scene...
But that isn't being selfish. It's just that sometimes the feeling is so incredibly overwhelming—like you're physically nauseous for days at a time—that you genuinely start losing your mind.

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

The problem is, it usually happens most often when it's about something serious; if it were that, I’d probably just walk away.
But some people just know exactly how to hit that ego button by bringing up other women in the most pathetic ways possible. Honestly, you don't even need to mention those things to your partner, and I truly don't get why people do it.
For instance:
Him: "Hey, I think Brankica really likes me. I don't get it, though, since we have absolutely nothing in common..."
Her: "Okay, but why are you even telling me this if it's not important? What am I supposed to say? Am I meant to be flattered? Or sorry that you two aren't a match? I don't get it.😕"
Him: "Oh, come on, do you really think it boosts my ego that she likes me? I mean, have you seen what Brankica looks like?"
Her: "So the others boost it, then? And that other thing...(😛)"
Him: "😠"

Example No. 2:

Him: "Hey, just wanted to give you a heads-up, since I know it might bother you later... I think I've caught the eye of that woman I work with."
Her: "Okay, and why would that bother me if you actually cared? But clearly, you don't care much when you're busy bringing it up, do you?"
Him: "No, it's just... I noticed it and wanted to tell you so there wouldn't be any issues down the line.
Her: "What wouldn't be an issue? I don't even get what you're planning to pull with her that I'd need to worry about! And how can you even tell she likes you? Is she biting her lip when you walk in? Giving you those little coy laughs?
Him: "Geez... forget it... maybe I shouldn't have mentioned anything at all. You just... you just feel it, you know? You don't need them to do anything, you just know when someone's into you, right?i>
Her (now completely exasperated, wondering if he's trying to kill her or how he became so incredibly clumsy and dense overnight): "No!!! I don't "just know," unless it's glaringly obvious, because I'm not obsessed with looking for it in my life—and I certainly wouldn't be running over to tell you, especially not about some stranger I'm seeing for the first time. And obviously, you must be into her too if you can "just tell."
Him: "I'm not into her. She's attractive, sure, but who cares? I mean, when are you finally going to start believing that I'm not interested in other women? I haven't been since I met you."
Her: 😕 😢

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

Not quite. 🤷 If you apply that same logic to yourself—basically allowing someone else to "own" you in the exact same way—then how can you possibly call it selfishness? If you aren't truly your own person to begin with, where is the self to be selfish? 😕

I’m not a fan of that term. To me, it feels like an attempt to "amnesty" what I see as pure selfishness. If we label everything above as just being selfish, then we're implying that selfishness isn't inherently bad—and once you go down that road, you can justify just about anything.

Of course, it’s pure selfishness. If you want to possess someone else while claiming you only belong to yourself—as if that somehow preserves your "autonomy"—you're just being self-centered.

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

I’d say something along those lines, though I might frame it a bit differently. I could also see myself coming to a slightly different conclusion.

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

Sure, the reason could be legitimate, or it might just be something someone made up. Personally, I tend to think it’s usually based on reality—that's your subconscious picking up on an actual situation where there's a genuine reason to feel jealous. It stems from that underlying fear that you're eventually going to lose what you consider "valuable."

So, people who claim they aren't jealous are really just devaluing what they supposedly "have." They tell themselves there are a million others just like you, all before the breakup even happens. Honestly, it makes the split so much easier to stomach if you've already mentally checked out and convinced yourself you're replaceable.

It reminds me of that old joke about John. When people ask him why he went and married such an unattractive woman, he just shrugs and says, "So I won't feel too bad when she eventually leaves me." 🤣

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

That isn't actually true, is it? I mean, would you honestly enjoy getting attention from someone who’s just a terrible person? Someone you don't even like, or who actually makes your skin crawl?

Only give your attention to the things you perceive as "positive." You could even go so far as to say, only focus on what you deem "eligible" from your own perspective. 😬

Sure, I’ve definitely run into people like that—the type who crave attention from absolutely anyone and everyone. To me, that feels like a pretty strange way to feed one's ego. Honestly, it just doesn't make any sense.

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

Sure, you can do that. But like I said, staring facts straight in the face isn't always helpful. If the reality of the situation is actually bad—meaning you have a legitimate, valid reason to feel jealous—then what does "facing the truth" really achieve? How is knowing you're right supposed to help you control the jealousy when the facts are just confirming that your suspicion is justified?

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

Look, I didn't mean it like that—I know how this comes across. But honestly, you were the one who said it was already over, so I'm just going by what you told me.

Sean Cruz said:When I say "selfish," I mean that romantic love is focused on one specific person; it isn't "sharable" like other types of affection. Essentially, we want to "possess" the person we love, and that is the definition of selfishness. Jealousy stems directly from the fear of losing what is "ours." Personally, I find it perfectly natural for people to feel this way—provided they don't take it to an extreme. I don't buy into those fairy tales about "unconditional" or "eternal" love; it's a myth. If such a thing actually existed, an unconditional romantic love would exist outside the realm of selfishness—meaning you could honestly be happy seeing the person you love find joy in someone else's arms without feeling a sting. 😬

He probably thinks that's what you want to hear. 😬

He claimed he was showing me respect, even though he knew damn well it was getting on my nerves. 🙄

Like I said, the point isn't about what you notice, whether you intend to or not; it's about your intentions, your plans, your motives, and so on. There is a massive difference between noticing another attractive woman and actively contemplating how to get with her—actually weighing that "option" as a possibility.

That’s exactly my point—there are "valid" situations where jealousy is justified (or at least feels that way), and then there are situations where it's completely irrational. Take something as harmless as glancing at someone else; we're all a little vain, and everyone enjoys being noticed by the opposite sex. You don't necessarily have any ulterior motives, but a partner might still feel jealous. I think most people experience that. And if a partner is prone to infidelity and gives you reasons to doubt them, it's only natural for that jealousy to intensify. However, once you truly know a person—their habits, their character, etc.—it becomes easier to manage those feelings and look at the situation objectively.

Well, lol, you answered your own question. It started one way and ended just as predictably. I'm not saying I'm smarter than you... I'm just brutally honest, heh.

🤣
But you don't actually know how it ended. 😁

Let me reiterate: honesty is *one* of the foundations, and without it, nothing works. But it isn't enough. At least, it isn't for me. I’m not saying you can't have a different standard; if that’s how you choose to define things, that's your prerogative. I see it differently—for better or worse.

I never claimed it was the sole foundation, just that it's vital to me. Personally, I’d much rather take a blow to the face than a knife in the back. And honestly, how could anyone think honesty alone is the only foundation? It’s simply impossible—relationships are incredibly complex, and there's an entire web of factors that determine whether a connection actually succeeds.

I completely agree. I’d much rather take a hammer to the head than a knife in the back, or a bullet to the forehead than being impaled on a stake. Just because there’s something even worse out there doesn't make the current situation "positive." Saying a knife in the back is worse doesn't mean you should celebrate getting hit with a hammer, or that it's something to be grateful for, LOL. You wouldn't say you "appreciate" a mugger just because he didn't kill anyone during the robbery. 🤣

Did you forget where we started this conversation? We began with an "honest" stance—that we’ll stick together until we find something better. The fact that being shady is even worse than our current spot doesn't make it a good thing. It’s simply choosing the lesser of two evils. That's my take on it, anyway; feel free to disagree if you think this is actually ideal. 😬

steeltiger2 said:Example No. 2:

Him: "Hey, just wanted to give you a heads-up, since I know it might bother you later... I think I've caught the eye of that woman I work with."
Her: "Okay, and why would that bother me if you actually cared? But clearly, you don't care much when you're busy bringing it up, do you?"
Him: "No, it's just... I noticed it and wanted to tell you so there wouldn't be any issues down the line.
Her: "What wouldn't be an issue? I don't even get what you're planning to pull with her that I'd need to worry about! And how can you even tell she likes you? Is she biting her lip when you walk in? Giving you those little coy laughs?
Him: "Geez... forget it... maybe I shouldn't have mentioned anything at all. You just... you just feel it, you know? You don't need them to do anything, you just know when someone's into you, right?i>
Her (now completely exasperated, wondering if he's trying to kill her or how he became so incredibly clumsy and dense overnight): "No!!! I don't "just know," unless it's glaringly obvious, because I'm not obsessed with looking for it in my life—and I certainly wouldn't be running over to tell you, especially not about some stranger I'm seeing for the first time. And obviously, you must be into her too if you can "just tell."
Him: "I'm not into her. She's attractive, sure, but who cares? I mean, when are you finally going to start believing that I'm not interested in other women? I haven't been since I met you."
Her: 😕 😢

🤣 Man, he's totally confused... just like me, LOL. He doesn't really know what he wants, and honestly, he doesn't quite get himself either. On the other hand, if this is a realistic portrayal, it seems to me he’s just suffering from an excessive need to be honest. 🤷

For instance, if he noticed that woman "reacting" to him, he might feel like it would be "suspiciously secretive" not to mention it to you. Because, say, someone else might bring it up—like a coworker at a place like Starbucks or an office in Chicago. ("...hey, just so you know, Stephanie is really into your boyfriend... she's always hovering around him... 😬"). So he thinks that if you hear it from them and he hasn't said anything, you'll assume he intentionally hid it because he has some ulterior motive... or that he was trying to keep his options open.

It isn't even necessary for him to think that way ("what if you hear it from others"); it might simply be unacceptable to him to "intentionally" keep it to himself once he's already noticed it.

lonegardener said:🤣 Man, he's totally confused... just like me, LOL. He doesn't really know what he wants, and honestly, he doesn't quite get himself either. On the other hand, if this is a realistic portrayal, it seems to me he’s just suffering from an excessive need to be honest. 🤷

For instance, if he noticed that woman "reacting" to him, he might feel like it would be "suspiciously secretive" not to mention it to you. Because, say, someone else might bring it up—like a coworker at a place like Starbucks or an office in Chicago. ("...hey, just so you know, Stephanie is really into your boyfriend... she's always hovering around him... 😬"). So he thinks that if you hear it from them and he hasn't said anything, you'll assume he intentionally hid it because he has some ulterior motive... or that he was trying to keep his options open.

It isn't even necessary for him to think that way ("what if you hear it from others"); it might simply be unacceptable to him to "intentionally" keep it to himself once he's already noticed it.

It’s always "shoot first, ask questions later" with some people, isn't it? Honestly, I don't know how they do it. I spend half my life overthinking every single word, carefully weighing my phrasing just so I don't accidentally bruise someone's ego or cause unnecessary drama. I'm constantly walking on eggshells, trying to be tactful. But them? They just blurt out the raw truth and move on like nothing happened. It’s wild. You can tell someone the hard truth, sure, but you do it with enough grace that they aren't left reeling or spiraling afterward. There's an art to it, really.
Do you think they actually have no idea what they're after? Because if that's the case... well, that's just not a good look. Honestly.

lonegardener said:🤣 Man, he's totally confused... just like me, LOL. He doesn't really know what he wants, and honestly, he doesn't quite get himself either. On the other hand, if this is a realistic portrayal, it seems to me he’s just suffering from an excessive need to be honest. 🤷

For instance, if he noticed that woman "reacting" to him, he might feel like it would be "suspiciously secretive" not to mention it to you. Because, say, someone else might bring it up—like a coworker at a place like Starbucks or an office in Chicago. ("...hey, just so you know, Stephanie is really into your boyfriend... she's always hovering around him... 😬"). So he thinks that if you hear it from them and he hasn't said anything, you'll assume he intentionally hid it because he has some ulterior motive... or that he was trying to keep his options open.

It isn't even necessary for him to think that way ("what if you hear it from others"); it might simply be unacceptable to him to "intentionally" keep it to himself once he's already noticed it.

Yeah, that’s totally plausible. Honestly, I know I catch some eyes at my office—and trust me, there are definitely some good-looking guys around—but I’d feel like such a phony if I actually went around telling people I was desirable. It’s just not something I care about in life. That's all there is to it. Why would you even go out of your way to whisper something in someone's ear just to mess with their head? The only reason to do that is to stir up jealousy, which is just such an immature way to act. And really, why bother?

Honestly, he’s pushed me so far past my limit with all this nonsense that I’ve actually started thinking about how to go out and arm myself. I mean, seriously—I’m sitting here wondering how to get enough gear so I can actually fight back. If I’m going to protect myself and stand my ground, I need more than just words. What else is there to do? I need some way to defend myself before I lose it completely.
Picture this: your heart is absolutely hammering against your ribs, your head feels like it’s seconds away from an outright explosion, and your blood pressure is spiking so hard you can practically feel the pulse in your temples. Just imagine that kind of raw, white-knuckle tension sustained for as long as it takes to finally burn itself out. Now... just think about what you'd actually *do* with all that frantic, unspent energy.🤷

steeltiger2 said:The problem is, it usually happens most often when it's about something serious; if it were that, I’d probably just walk away.
But some people just know exactly how to hit that ego button by bringing up other women in the most pathetic ways possible. Honestly, you don't even need to mention those things to your partner, and I truly don't get why people do it.
For instance:
Him: "Hey, I think Brankica really likes me. I don't get it, though, since we have absolutely nothing in common..."
Her: "Okay, but why are you even telling me this if it's not important? What am I supposed to say? Am I meant to be flattered? Or sorry that you two aren't a match? I don't get it.😕"
Him: "Oh, come on, do you really think it boosts my ego that she likes me? I mean, have you seen what Brankica looks like?"
Her: "So the others boost it, then? And that other thing...(😛)"
Him: "😠"

I completely see where you're coming from, but you'll notice the difference in perspective when you compare my take to lonegardener's. I'd suggest listening to him; he probably has a better grasp on the male psyche. 😁

From what you've described, it sounds to me like the guy is a bit of an overthinker who thrives on being the center of attention. It might not even be true that these women are "into" him; he could just be imagining it. But if he isn't, there are several reasons why he might have brought it up:

1. To cover his tracks in case you happen to notice something later,
2. He's planning something and is "testing the waters,"
3. He's intentionally checking your reaction—essentially baiting you...

There's plenty more to it. Personally, I would only mention something like this to my partner if I were certain someone was actually pursuing me and it might cause real issues. But based purely on a "feeling" that someone likes me—especially when I have zero interest and don't care about it—I don't see any reason to stir up drama in my life.

It seems to me the guy is just desperate for attention and can't make up his mind which way is up. ☕

steeltiger2 said:It’s always "shoot first, ask questions later" with some people, isn't it? Honestly, I don't know how they do it. I spend half my life overthinking every single word, carefully weighing my phrasing just so I don't accidentally bruise someone's ego or cause unnecessary drama. I'm constantly walking on eggshells, trying to be tactful. But them? They just blurt out the raw truth and move on like nothing happened. It’s wild. You can tell someone the hard truth, sure, but you do it with enough grace that they aren't left reeling or spiraling afterward. There's an art to it, really.
Do you think they actually have no idea what they're after? Because if that's the case... well, that's just not a good look. Honestly.

Yeah, that’s totally plausible. Honestly, I know I catch some eyes at my office—and trust me, there are definitely some good-looking guys around—but I’d feel like such a phony if I actually went around telling people I was desirable. It’s just not something I care about in life. That's all there is to it. Why would you even go out of your way to whisper something in someone's ear just to mess with their head? The only reason to do that is to stir up jealousy, which is just such an immature way to act. And really, why bother?

Honestly, he’s pushed me so far past my limit with all this nonsense that I’ve actually started thinking about how to go out and arm myself. I mean, seriously—I’m sitting here wondering how to get enough gear so I can actually fight back. If I’m going to protect myself and stand my ground, I need more than just words. What else is there to do? I need some way to defend myself before I lose it completely.
Picture this: your heart is absolutely hammering against your ribs, your head feels like it’s seconds away from an outright explosion, and your blood pressure is spiking so hard you can practically feel the pulse in your temples. Just imagine that kind of raw, white-knuckle tension sustained for as long as it takes to finally burn itself out. Now... just think about what you'd actually *do* with all that frantic, unspent energy.🤷

How exactly can someone tell that kind of truth without causing worry? I'm genuinely curious. What kind of wording should he have used instead?

steeltiger2 said:It’s always "shoot first, ask questions later" with some people, isn't it? Honestly, I don't know how they do it. I spend half my life overthinking every single word, carefully weighing my phrasing just so I don't accidentally bruise someone's ego or cause unnecessary drama. I'm constantly walking on eggshells, trying to be tactful. But them? They just blurt out the raw truth and move on like nothing happened. It’s wild. You can tell someone the hard truth, sure, but you do it with enough grace that they aren't left reeling or spiraling afterward. There's an art to it, really.
Do you think they actually have no idea what they're after? Because if that's the case... well, that's just not a good look. Honestly.

Yeah, that’s totally plausible. Honestly, I know I catch some eyes at my office—and trust me, there are definitely some good-looking guys around—but I’d feel like such a phony if I actually went around telling people I was desirable. It’s just not something I care about in life. That's all there is to it. Why would you even go out of your way to whisper something in someone's ear just to mess with their head? The only reason to do that is to stir up jealousy, which is just such an immature way to act. And really, why bother?

Honestly, he’s pushed me so far past my limit with all this nonsense that I’ve actually started thinking about how to go out and arm myself. I mean, seriously—I’m sitting here wondering how to get enough gear so I can actually fight back. If I’m going to protect myself and stand my ground, I need more than just words. What else is there to do? I need some way to defend myself before I lose it completely.
Picture this: your heart is absolutely hammering against your ribs, your head feels like it’s seconds away from an outright explosion, and your blood pressure is spiking so hard you can practically feel the pulse in your temples. Just imagine that kind of raw, white-knuckle tension sustained for as long as it takes to finally burn itself out. Now... just think about what you'd actually *do* with all that frantic, unspent energy.🤷

I don't know, I can see it both ways. You ask "why plant a seed," and I'm asking "why stay silent if you've already noticed?" You obviously "noticed" those guys at work like you, right? You remember it, and you probably thought about it too... by your own logic, that means they like you just because you picked up on it. 😬

In my view, it's the truth in both your case and his. 😈 That's just how it works; your subconscious is telling you what this actually means for your relationship, even if your conscious mind isn't ready to accept the conclusion.