Debates about meditation

So we might just end up losing this one:

But perhaps you should try loosening that turban a bit? Might allow some much-needed oxygen to actually reach your brain.

Edward Flores4 said:Hey master, when's your birthday? I want to get this printed on a bumper sticker for you.

A student asks Edward Flores4—and really, that’s just because the student hasn't realized how much they don't know yet.

PrintMaster is officially in business.

placidharbor7 said:PrintMaster is officially in business.

Are you even aware of the exponential curve your rhetoric is following downward? It’s like this—the harder you try to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself, the deeper you end up sinking. Just let it go... 😉

About seven posts back, I warned you that your style of "discussion" had dropped down to an elementary school level. Well, fast forward just seven posts later—specifically in your last one—and you’ve successfully transitioned into full-on preschool logic.

You know how little kids act...
Chris, Chris, you're a mess...
Or hey, Edward, if you're feeling bad, grab a cheap beer... and if you're really sorry, go jump in some cocoa!

And honestly, that's exactly where your whole PrintMaster in (s)print thing sits right now. ☕

It would actually be funny if it wasn't so tragic—seeing a supposed Zen Master reduced to a frustrated brat throwing a tantrum in a local daycare. Honestly, I can't think of a better advertisement for your little boutique selling exotic fog.

I'm sure you're the absolute pride and joy of your Zen colleagues all over the globe, and this forum is undoubtedly lucky to host such a massive teacher. 😍

hiddenhound3 said:Will either one of you two finally decide to take a rest? 😬

Well, one of them is already pretty exhausted... maybe if he keeps at it, that lightbulb will finally flicker on sometime in the near future. At the end of the day, it’s all about staying persistent. There's a certain kind of freedom that comes from just putting in the work. 😉

Edward Flores4 said:Hey master, when's your birthday? I want to get this printed on a bumper sticker for you.

A student asks Edward Flores4—and really, that’s just because the student hasn't realized how much they don't know yet.

He’s really just doing what he does best, isn't he?

Edward Flores4 said:Are you even aware of the exponential curve your rhetoric is following downward? It’s like this—the harder you try to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself, the deeper you end up sinking. Just let it go... 😉

About seven posts back, I warned you that your style of "discussion" had dropped down to an elementary school level. Well, fast forward just seven posts later—specifically in your last one—and you’ve successfully transitioned into full-on preschool logic.

You know how little kids act...
Chris, Chris, you're a mess...
Or hey, Edward, if you're feeling bad, grab a cheap beer... and if you're really sorry, go jump in some cocoa!

And honestly, that's exactly where your whole PrintMaster in (s)print thing sits right now. ☕

It would actually be funny if it wasn't so tragic—seeing a supposed Zen Master reduced to a frustrated brat throwing a tantrum in a local daycare. Honestly, I can't think of a better advertisement for your little boutique selling exotic fog.

I'm sure you're the absolute pride and joy of your Zen colleagues all over the globe, and this forum is undoubtedly lucky to host such a massive teacher. 😍

...since when did you start making fun of people for having realizations?

placidharbor7 said:He’s really just doing what he does best, isn't he?

Oh... well, that’s actually exactly what I’ve been doing this whole time. See, my specialty lies in spotting fake prophets, wannabe enlightened types, arrogant preachers, self-proclaimed gurus, spiritual grifters, and ego-driven snake oil salesmen.

As you can tell, I’m pretty damn good at my job—considering about 90% of my posts seem to match the verbal and argumentative depth of a three-year-old (this one included). 😁

So, why don't you take your own advice for once and start doing something you actually excel at? Because, if I’m being honest, your "spiritual guru" act isn't quite hitting the mark... I've run into much more convincing con artists than you. Your approach is pretty shallow, and honestly, it's completely lacking charisma. ☕

And as for that sweater with your little bumper sticker axiom about questioning things from a place of ignorance... I think I'll leave that to a professional. When I give gifts... I do them with style. Just let me know when your birthday is. 😉

placidharbor7 said:...since when did you start making fun of people for having realizations?

That's perfect! Honestly, I think we've found your true calling out there in the world. You could totally work as an activity coordinator at a local preschool center—it would definitely put all those unique talents of yours to good use. 😁

Edward Flores4 said:Oh... well, that’s actually exactly what I’ve been doing this whole time. See, my specialty lies in spotting fake prophets, wannabe enlightened types, arrogant preachers, self-proclaimed gurus, spiritual grifters, and ego-driven snake oil salesmen.

As you can tell, I’m pretty damn good at my job—considering about 90% of my posts seem to match the verbal and argumentative depth of a three-year-old (this one included). 😁

So, why don't you take your own advice for once and start doing something you actually excel at? Because, if I’m being honest, your "spiritual guru" act isn't quite hitting the mark... I've run into much more convincing con artists than you. Your approach is pretty shallow, and honestly, it's completely lacking charisma. ☕

And as for that sweater with your little bumper sticker axiom about questioning things from a place of ignorance... I think I'll leave that to a professional. When I give gifts... I do them with style. Just let me know when your birthday is. 😉

So, here we go again! This "third-grader" is asking you for the twelfth time in a row: WHO (during meditation) is actually in charge of the "Controller"?
Are you going to play the brave, grown-up little boy again and dodge the question with more nonsense? Honestly, you’re incredibly good at that—especially when you dress it up in that fancy act of being an expert on the mysteries of meditation, both in general and specifically.

Just like Krishnamurti found the Living Truth, you’ll find that spotting fake prophets is just as much of a struggle. Keep flipping through those picture books, you truth seeker; you won't find any real Masters in there.

placidharbor7 said:So, here we go again! This "third-grader" is asking you for the twelfth time in a row: WHO (during meditation) is actually in charge of the "Controller"?
Are you going to play the brave, grown-up little boy again and dodge the question with more nonsense? Honestly, you’re incredibly good at that—especially when you dress it up in that fancy act of being an expert on the mysteries of meditation, both in general and specifically.

Just like Krishnamurti found the Living Truth, you’ll find that spotting fake prophets is just as much of a struggle. Keep flipping through those picture books, you truth seeker; you won't find any real Masters in there.

Look... I truly respect the effort you're putting in to boost your own self-esteem here, but honestly, I have no clue how to help you 🤷

The thing is—after I sat down and wrote that massive essay tackling this exact issue, pointing out the whole "controller" dilemma (using Krishnamurti as my guide), all in an attempt to show people how impossible it is to touch the tip of your finger with the tip of that very same finger... (yeah, that's the metaphor for the controller, by the way)
After I practically broke my back trying to explain that meditation is a way of living, not some kind of "self-control" over thoughts that just surge up spontaneously—thoughts that are IMPOSSIBLE to control... You come back to me asking (for the nth time!) who the controller is!?!? 🤷

I’ll kick myself in the butt if you're actually being serious here... honestly. What else can I say besides... get a grip on yourself, if you even can. 🤣

You're throwing a question at me that I already laid out in this thread over a month or two ago, and now you expect me to take you seriously. Man, stop chasing the fog and pick up a shovel... leave some actual mark of your existence behind... even if it's just a footprint in the field. ☕

Edward Flores4 said:Look... I truly respect the effort you're putting in to boost your own self-esteem here, but honestly, I have no clue how to help you 🤷

The thing is—after I sat down and wrote that massive essay tackling this exact issue, pointing out the whole "controller" dilemma (using Krishnamurti as my guide), all in an attempt to show people how impossible it is to touch the tip of your finger with the tip of that very same finger... (yeah, that's the metaphor for the controller, by the way)
After I practically broke my back trying to explain that meditation is a way of living, not some kind of "self-control" over thoughts that just surge up spontaneously—thoughts that are IMPOSSIBLE to control... You come back to me asking (for the nth time!) who the controller is!?!? 🤷

I’ll kick myself in the butt if you're actually being serious here... honestly. What else can I say besides... get a grip on yourself, if you even can. 🤣

You're throwing a question at me that I already laid out in this thread over a month or two ago, and now you expect me to take you seriously. Man, stop chasing the fog and pick up a shovel... leave some actual mark of your existence behind... even if it's just a footprint in the field. ☕

But honestly, isn't that exactly what you've been doing this whole time?

Meditation isn't just a "way of life," truth seeker. Without a legitimate MASTER, it’s going to take you a lifetime for that realization to travel from your toes to your brain.

A MASTER is someone who actually understands the "controller." You aren't going to find that guidance from some guru like J. Krishnamurti, and you certainly won't find it by stumbling around blindly on your own.

placidharbor7 said:But honestly, isn't that exactly what you've been doing this whole time?

Meditation isn't just a "way of life," truth seeker. Without a legitimate MASTER, it’s going to take you a lifetime for that realization to travel from your toes to your brain.

A MASTER is someone who actually understands the "controller." You aren't going to find that guidance from some guru like J. Krishnamurti, and you certainly won't find it by stumbling around blindly on your own.

Setting aside your invisible friend and that Eastern psychopathology regarding an obsession with authority, tell me: what does meditation actually mean to you?

placidharbor7 said:But honestly, isn't that exactly what you've been doing this whole time?

Meditation isn't just a "way of life," truth seeker. Without a legitimate MASTER, it’s going to take you a lifetime for that realization to travel from your toes to your brain.

A MASTER is someone who actually understands the "controller." You aren't going to find that guidance from some guru like J. Krishnamurti, and you certainly won't find it by stumbling around blindly on your own.

Look, schizophrenia is a nasty business. It doesn't always leave a physical bruise, which makes it incredibly hard to pin down. Honestly, I think most educated people deal with a mild version of it, but sometimes things spiral out of control—that's when you find yourself "chatting with the controller."

Thanks for the input, "master," but I'll pass. If you actually stumbled upon the truth by accident, it clearly took a toll on you. You're stuck using this childish, poorly translated pseudo-wisdom from some Eastern guru, you have the temperament of a toddler, you seem to view "discussion" as an abstract concept rather than a practice, and the only thing you're actually capable of is calling yourself a MASTER.

Around here, we just call that being arrogant and overambitious. But hey, feel free to call yourself whatever you want—Master Larry... who gives a shit? 😁

ps: give my regards to the controller when you see him, and if I can offer one bit of advice... maybe don't bring up the controller during your next check-up at the doctor's office. 😉

placidharbor7 said:I mean, seriously—since the beginning of time, how many people have actually found the answer to the question: who is the one controlling the controller?

They gave an answer, and now everyone’s turned into a complete donkey. 😁

Edward Flores4 said:I’ve gotta say, I’m feeling pretty uneasy about this—there’s this nagging suspicion that you’ve been totally compromised by the spiritual advice coming from some local guru. It feels like you aren't even realizing that you're stuck in this loop of completely broken rhetoric, the kind of stuff that fits Einstein's definition of insanity perfectly. You just keep spinning the same wheel over and over, stubbornly waiting for the exact same reaction to somehow—by some miracle, maybe?—produce a slightly different result one day. ☕

Only a dead guru is actually a good one. 😁

Edward Flores4 said:A true master shows up when you actually need them. These other folks? They just barge in when you aren't asking, trying to convince you that you're somehow "broken" just so they can sell you their services... honestly, those guys are nothing more than low-rent snake oil salesmen.

Ignorance is that kind of "wandering lost," and there is absolutely nothing "low" about it.

Whatever happened to the idea of being "a light unto yourself"? Right now, you're sounding less like a guiding beacon and more like a flickering streetlamp with some serious self-esteem issues.😍

Remember the joke about Moe and Allah?😉

Here's what I call a true Zen joke:😁 😁

"Hey Moe, jump in the boat!"
- "No way, I swear to Allah. I'm a man of deep faith and Allah will save me."
Abraham says: - "Just wait on Allah then, you idiot." - and he rows off.
The water hits Moe's waist when Abraham comes by in a boat and says:
- "Hey Moe, jump in the boat!"
- "No way, I swear to Allah. I'm a man of deep faith and Allah will save me."
Abraham says: - "Just wait on Allah then, you idiot." - and he rows off.
The water reaches Moe's neck when Solomon pulls up in a boat too and says:
- "Hey Moe, jump in the boat!"
- "No way, I swear to Allah. I'm a man of deep faith and Allah will save me."
Solomon says: - "Just wait on Allah then, you idiot." - and he rows off.
Moe drowns and goes to Allah and asks:
- "Oh Allah. I was a man of great faith, so why didn't you save me?"
Allah looks at him and says:
- "Well, Moe, even I find this strange. Let me check my notes...
A-ha... Well, I sent you a boat three times and you turned me down all three times"
to save you.

Michael Anderson2 said:This debate is more intense than a playoff game! 😂

I was actually thinking about getting into meditation, but after seeing this, I don't think it's even necessary. Thanks, master! 🙂

Even a random guy on a forum can have an epiphany once in a while. Who knows who that was? It feels like ages ago. 😉😁😍

placidharbor7 said:So, here we go again! This "third-grader" is asking you for the twelfth time in a row: WHO (during meditation) is actually in charge of the "Controller"?
Are you going to play the brave, grown-up little boy again and dodge the question with more nonsense? Honestly, you’re incredibly good at that—especially when you dress it up in that fancy act of being an expert on the mysteries of meditation, both in general and specifically.

Just like Krishnamurti found the Living Truth, you’ll find that spotting fake prophets is just as much of a struggle. Keep flipping through those picture books, you truth seeker; you won't find any real Masters in there.

The electric streetcar in Chicago? I mean, who else would 🙄😂😂

jademarlin26 said:Setting aside your invisible friend and that Eastern psychopathology regarding an obsession with authority, tell me: what does meditation actually mean to you?

Is meditation just a set of techniques, some "asanas," a way to practice "control" or "non-control," a specific "lifestyle," or something else entirely?
Before we dive in, let's first establish what it definitely isn't.

Edward Flores4 said:Look, schizophrenia is a nasty business. It doesn't always leave a physical bruise, which makes it incredibly hard to pin down. Honestly, I think most educated people deal with a mild version of it, but sometimes things spiral out of control—that's when you find yourself "chatting with the controller."

Thanks for the input, "master," but I'll pass. If you actually stumbled upon the truth by accident, it clearly took a toll on you. You're stuck using this childish, poorly translated pseudo-wisdom from some Eastern guru, you have the temperament of a toddler, you seem to view "discussion" as an abstract concept rather than a practice, and the only thing you're actually capable of is calling yourself a MASTER.

Around here, we just call that being arrogant and overambitious. But hey, feel free to call yourself whatever you want—Master Larry... who gives a shit? 😁

ps: give my regards to the controller when you see him, and if I can offer one bit of advice... maybe don't bring up the controller during your next check-up at the doctor's office. 😉

Exactly! You hit the nail right on the head. That's the only way to look at it.

🍿I think we're gearing up for another round of 🙂 🍿