Debates about meditation

Edward Flores4 said:wow !!! It speaks 🙂

It’s just great how you went out of your way to elaborate—again—on the exact same points you always bring up whenever we realize you're just circling back to the same old loop, all while stubbornly expecting me to suddenly flip my reaction around. Well, here we are... you might want to sit tight and wait a little longer. I honestly don't know what else to tell you ☕

The emphasis really ought to be on your "waiting," not on what placidharbor7 is doing. That whole concept of a student "waiting" is supposed to involve a total, all-encompassing doubt in the intellect's ability to grasp the transcendent.
It’s pretty obvious that you aren't the one, that you aren't truly "waiting," or even a genuine seeker, which is why you keep getting knocked down a peg. It's the classic Zen Master and student "tug-of-war." The Master is simply wielding his whip, no matter how much it feels to you like he's just "repeating" himself.

I mean, what's there to justify if you actually "win," placidharbor7? 😂

Edward Flores4 said:I mean, what's there to justify if you actually "win," placidharbor7? 😂

A true master wins when the student finally stops losing.

As far as I know... I don't actually have any students of my own! ☕

Man, you really are a handful for a handyman... Come on, admit it—you just have this deep-seated need to be perceived by others. It’s all for show, really; there's no reason to go playing the Geisha 😁

Edward Flores4 said:As far as I know... I don't actually have any students of my own! ☕

Man, you really are a handful for a handyman... Come on, admit it—you just have this deep-seated need to be perceived by others. It’s all for show, really; there's no reason to go playing the Geisha 😁

Don't go stressing yourself out—you'll get there eventually. It’s all about whether you have that bit of luck on your side, as J. Krishnamurti used to say!

Edward Flores4 said:As far as I know... I don't actually have any students of my own! ☕

Man, you really are a handful for a handyman... Come on, admit it—you just have this deep-seated need to be perceived by others. It’s all for show, really; there's no reason to go playing the Geisha 😁

Wait, hold on a second... Are we seriously suggesting that Geishas aren't even human?! That is such a wild thing to say!😢

placidharbor7 said:Don't go stressing yourself out—you'll get there eventually. It’s all about whether you have that bit of luck on your side, as J. Krishnamurti used to say!

Wait, hold on a second... Are we seriously suggesting that Geishas aren't even human?! That is such a wild thing to say!😢

From what I can remember—and honestly, I'm just trying to keep up here—I wasn't the one who started complaining; you're actually the one stuck on a loop with the grievances. Personally, I don't have any issues to vent about, nor do I feel the need to justify myself to you. On the flip side, you seem to be constantly explaining things to me, essentially just spinning wheels and moving air from one empty space to another. I guess that's become your new Zen hobby 🤷

So, Geishas aren't people!?

Oh, they certainly are, but I suppose metaphors aren't everyone's cup of tea.☕

Edward Flores4 said:From what I can remember—and honestly, I'm just trying to keep up here—I wasn't the one who started complaining; you're actually the one stuck on a loop with the grievances. Personally, I don't have any issues to vent about, nor do I feel the need to justify myself to you. On the flip side, you seem to be constantly explaining things to me, essentially just spinning wheels and moving air from one empty space to another. I guess that's become your new Zen hobby 🤷

So, Geishas aren't people!?

Oh, they certainly are, but I suppose metaphors aren't everyone's cup of tea.☕

But maybe you're causing problems for everyone else without even realizing it!

Edward Flores4 said:From what I can remember—and honestly, I'm just trying to keep up here—I wasn't the one who started complaining; you're actually the one stuck on a loop with the grievances. Personally, I don't have any issues to vent about, nor do I feel the need to justify myself to you. On the flip side, you seem to be constantly explaining things to me, essentially just spinning wheels and moving air from one empty space to another. I guess that's become your new Zen hobby 🤷

So, Geishas aren't people!?

Oh, they certainly are, but I suppose metaphors aren't everyone's cup of tea.☕

You're just struggling with both your intent and your syntax.

placidharbor7 said:But maybe you're causing problems for everyone else without even realizing it!

You're just struggling with both your intent and your syntax.

So, what—you showed up like some young hero destined to save the masses from their own ignorance? 😁 If that's the case, why aren't you actually explaining things to people instead of acting like you've got a bad case of Stockholm syndrome? 😍

You're just clumsy with your intentions and your syntax.

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe the issue is just being dyslexic?

Honestly, this beats watching football any day!

Good grief.

All I need now is some snacks and a cold drink.

PS.
If we really want to spice things up, let's get a little action going... an online sportsbook!
Hit me up via DM if you want to place a bet. (Might as well try to make a quick buck while we wait for the "Controller" to sort out his mess)

🙂

So far, it looks like the pro is winning. He isn't just throwing pearls before swine or talking his head off, which I guess gives him an automatic edge. 😂😂😂

Edward Flores4, you’ve dumped a massive amount of text on me here, so I’m just gonna zero in on one specific point since I haven't been keeping up with the thread.
I honestly think you're taking the whole concept of meditation and, because you can't find a better way to put it, you're basically just stretching the definition until it breaks. Look, sure, meditation is about self-discovery through observation—that part holds water—but it isn't a "lifestyle." Once you actually start living your life and interacting with the world, you're acting, and the moment you act, that pure state of observation pretty much vanishes.
And this whole thing about sitting in some "cool" pose? You're turning it into something it totally isn't. If someone gets caught up in that superficial stuff and ends up questioning the validity of meditation just because they don't get it, all that really proves is that they've jumped into something they clearly don't understand. As for why people bother with certain postures in the first place—well, when your spine is aligned and your legs are crossed (though they don't strictly have to be), it allows information, energy, and those chemical messengers inside your body to flow more efficiently. It's basically just a way to speed up the process of observing your inner self to get the clarity you're looking for.

Edward Flores4 said:So, what—you showed up like some young hero destined to save the masses from their own ignorance? 😁 If that's the case, why aren't you actually explaining things to people instead of acting like you've got a bad case of Stockholm syndrome? 😍

You're just clumsy with your intentions and your syntax.

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe the issue is just being dyslexic?

It just keeps getting worse! Now even someone with dyslexia can see how much you're just talking in circles.

placidharbor7 said:It just keeps getting worse! Now even someone with dyslexia can see how much you're just talking in circles.

I honestly don't know if there’s anything lower than this—searching for comfort and validation in threads posted by the very people you usually mock and dismiss as "lost truth seekers." 🙄 I mean, I didn't think you could actually sink any deeper than this, my dear "true master"... 😍

Being an intelligent person doesn't mean much when you're part of the crowd, because by definition, the crowd is already full enough as it is. So, go ahead—enjoy that well-deserved support from the masses. 😉

coastalskipper92 said:I haven't actually read Krishnamurthi, yet both of your quotes offer a completely different interpretation of Krishnamurthi and meditation compared to my own.
Everyone sees what they want to see, I suppose.

Starting from that very first sentence, I find myself agreeing with shamantrixx.

It so "annoys" me when, if I happen to bring up a "problem" during a discussion on spirituality, everyone suddenly tries to comfort me... telling me that I'll grow through it and then won't have "problems" anymore.
That I'll just bask in eternal light and peace.
How lovely.
And all because the ego feels the need to "write off" problems simply because they don't fit within the concept of Zen.

shamantrixx... you once wrote to me regarding one of my little rants 😂 about how it isn't necessarily harder to be right... that change is instantaneous...
It wasn't that for me... we aren't the same...
I observed it for a while, much like an exotic plant 😂 and I didn't quite have the space to find a place for it just yet.
I have to explain this using metaphors 😍

To me, meditation is simply self-knowledge about self-knowledge. Is that not the essence of it? 😂😍

If meditation is meant to be the path toward realization, then isn't realization itself a bit of a phantom? A ghost we chase? It feels as though we’ve simply projected the goal into some distant future, measuring a destination that doesn't actually exist in the present.

What exactly do these little asterisks signify?

It isn't about imitation... I've always felt that the truly enlightened ones are those who actually have a guru. 😂

Meditation isn't about finding peace. It’s about freedom. Or is it? One might argue that peace is just a temporary lull, a quiet moment before the storm returns. But true liberation—that’s something else entirely.
There can be no peace without first having freedom.
If we prioritize finding peace first, then our freedom becomes little more than a fleeting oasis.[/b]

A true master doesn't "mock" their students just to drive them toward mocking themselves and the teacher in return, right?
Ignorance isn't "being lost," and it certainly isn't a moral failing.
You're just talking nonsense again out of pure lack of understanding, truth seeker.

placidharbor7 said:A true master doesn't "mock" their students just to drive them toward mocking themselves and the teacher in return, right?
Ignorance isn't "being lost," and it certainly isn't a moral failing.
You're just talking nonsense again out of pure lack of understanding, truth seeker.

A true master shows up when you actually need them. These other folks? They just barge in when you aren't asking, trying to convince you that you're somehow "broken" just so they can sell you their services... honestly, those guys are nothing more than low-rent snake oil salesmen.

Ignorance is that kind of "wandering lost," and there is absolutely nothing "low" about it.

Whatever happened to the idea of being "a light unto yourself"? Right now, you're sounding less like a guiding beacon and more like a flickering streetlamp with some serious self-esteem issues.😍

placidharbor7 said:The emphasis really ought to be on your "waiting," not on what placidharbor7 is doing. That whole concept of a student "waiting" is supposed to involve a total, all-encompassing doubt in the intellect's ability to grasp the transcendent.
It’s pretty obvious that you aren't the one, that you aren't truly "waiting," or even a genuine seeker, which is why you keep getting knocked down a peg. It's the classic Zen Master and student "tug-of-war." The Master is simply wielding his whip, no matter how much it feels to you like he's just "repeating" himself.

Look, you aren't "broken"—how could you possibly be? You're simply still closed, my friend, a true truth seeker.

placidharbor7 said:The emphasis really ought to be on your "waiting," not on what placidharbor7 is doing. That whole concept of a student "waiting" is supposed to involve a total, all-encompassing doubt in the intellect's ability to grasp the transcendent.
It’s pretty obvious that you aren't the one, that you aren't truly "waiting," or even a genuine seeker, which is why you keep getting knocked down a peg. It's the classic Zen Master and student "tug-of-war." The Master is simply wielding his whip, no matter how much it feels to you like he's just "repeating" himself.

Since when did that become some mandatory spiritual rule? That "just be" nonsense is usually pushed by those amateur gurus who don't realize that someone stuck in a lower state of consciousness can't just summon a higher one on command.

placidharbor7 said:Look, you aren't "broken"—how could you possibly be? You're simply still closed, my friend, a true truth seeker.

Since when did that become some mandatory spiritual rule? That "just be" nonsense is usually pushed by those amateur gurus who don't realize that someone stuck in a lower state of consciousness can't just summon a higher one on command.

Man, you really have a way with words, don't you? Swapping out "corrupt" for "closed"... wow! It sounds fancy, sure, but let's be real—it's the exact same thing. Whether you call it being corrupt or just being closed off, the underlying point about being dysfunctional doesn't change one bit. You're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic here; you can dress it up all you want, but you can't hide what's actually going on.

So, listen, my dear merchant of illusions—why don't you hitch two horses to your cloud and gallop off to find somewhere you might actually be useful... assuming such a place even exists.

Since when did "being" become some spiritual requirement? That's just stuff gurus pull out of thin air—those folks who don't realize you can't summon a higher state of consciousness if you're stuck at a lower level.

Look, I'm not saying you have no clue what you're talking about... it's more that I have absolutely no idea what *you're* talking about. I suspect it's just a matter of how thick the fog is at different altitudes, so honestly, I'd recommend you work on that New York City syndrome as soon as possible. That way, your pressure stays low, and the heavy fog won't keep obscuring your "higher consciousness" (whatever that's supposed to mean).

I actually think it's the exact opposite

People with actual experience—the kind who can take a step without overthinking it, folks who know how to pivot fast or just take a hit and keep moving—they don't really need all that empty meditation stuff

Meditation is for people struggling to get where they want to be... there could be a dozen reasons for that

Honestly, once you're over 30, you probably shouldn't even be meditating anymore... that’s a young person's game, trying to process all that incoming data... though half of them are just forcing it rather than actually learning anything

As for those over 30... if they're still sitting there meditating, they're just wasting time... go get some actual work done

Edward Flores4 said:Man, you really have a way with words, don't you? Swapping out "corrupt" for "closed"... wow! It sounds fancy, sure, but let's be real—it's the exact same thing. Whether you call it being corrupt or just being closed off, the underlying point about being dysfunctional doesn't change one bit. You're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic here; you can dress it up all you want, but you can't hide what's actually going on.

So, listen, my dear merchant of illusions—why don't you hitch two horses to your cloud and gallop off to find somewhere you might actually be useful... assuming such a place even exists.

Since when did "being" become some spiritual requirement? That's just stuff gurus pull out of thin air—those folks who don't realize you can't summon a higher state of consciousness if you're stuck at a lower level.

Look, I'm not saying you have no clue what you're talking about... it's more that I have absolutely no idea what *you're* talking about. I suspect it's just a matter of how thick the fog is at different altitudes, so honestly, I'd recommend you work on that New York City syndrome as soon as possible. That way, your pressure stays low, and the heavy fog won't keep obscuring your "higher consciousness" (whatever that's supposed to mean).

And frankly, I don't think you have a clue what you're rambling about either! You're out here stuttering away, claiming that only degenerates can figure out who’s actually pulling the strings and managing the "controller" inside us—and that only those people would dare say it out loud. Give me a break! Just lock it up and move on.

placidharbor7 said:And frankly, I don't think you have a clue what you're rambling about either! You're out here stuttering away, claiming that only degenerates can figure out who’s actually pulling the strings and managing the "controller" inside us—and that only those people would dare say it out loud. Give me a break! Just lock it up and move on.

Look... it's pretty obvious you're having some kind of disproportionate emotional meltdown here. Your replies are becoming totally incoherent—you're ignoring your own massive self-owns and leaning harder into this increasingly decadent rhetoric. Honestly, it's effectively reducing you to the mental state of a suspicious elementary schooler with questionable parenting.

I really am sorry you're feeling so wounded, though. I get why you feel the need to soothe your subconscious by doubling down on this "master craftsman" perspective of yours—which always seems to boil down to that repetitive, arrogant posture of yours, acting as if you're looking down from... well, how you describe it... those very "enlightened" heights of consciousness (which sounds more like expensive, imported smog to me). I also realize how critical it is for you to chant these little mantras non-stop; otherwise, they might stop working, and we wouldn't want that to be disastrous for your "self-esteem," would we?

I hear you loud and clear, buddy—but honestly, none of that is my problem. ☕