Dark Night of the Soul

Dragonfly 🙂,

Thank you so much for such an exhaustive and fascinating post...

Regardless, I feel we really need to discuss this somewhat indescribable state of being. It’s far removed from anything mystical or shrouded in mystery, even if the name itself seems to suggest otherwise...
When I first encountered this concept in literature, I felt such a sense of relief—it was truly a joy to realize that this actually happens! To know that it wasn't just my own exclusive struggle, something happening only to me that left me wondering what to do with myself or whether what I was experiencing was even normal...

At the end of the day, who among us can truly claim to have passed through it? And who can claim they haven't? When I really sit with the thought... it feels foolish to try and measure or compare these experiences...
We have all moved through something... But what exactly is it? We know—or at least, I know—that it was unpleasant. Not in the sense that it was painful, or that there was physical sensation or active suffering... because, in truth, there wasn't. It didn't hurt. It is that strange phenomenon where pain becomes so immense that it simply ceases to exist. There are so many reasons for this that you couldn't possibly isolate just one. You recognize them all, yet you can't pin down any single one... And it all unfolds deep within your most private self, entirely without your conscious knowledge, acting as a process that doesn't require your help, nor does it require your permission...

You mention love, though I'm not quite sure in what context. You speak of a "cry of love for acceptance." Whose love is it? It seemed to me that you are referring to love as a universal principle...
Throughout your entire text, the idea I gathered is that TND is a non-individual phenomenon affecting the entire human race, intended to rectify the imbalances caused by a lack of love. Consequently, individuals undergo suffering as a way to make amends for that deficiency. Please correct me if I've misinterpreted your meaning... A supra-personal dark night. Since humanity certainly isn't living in its golden age, one could frame it as a collective striving for "salvation," an attempt to emerge from the darkness...

And yet, the individual level is the only perspective from which we can truly discuss TND. You touched upon the existential identity crisis and how it often gets conflated with TND. Perhaps there is a thin line between the descriptions of these two experiences, but an existential crisis never emerges from the same depth as TND, nor is it quite so indescribable. An existential crisis has clearer outlines and leads to a different result...

I am trying to give shape to what TND actually is. Simply put, it is a dying—the process of an old personality passing away so that a new being can be born; a being that knows and feels, and returns to the starting point, but this time through understanding and accepting existence, both internally and externally...

casualtiger2 said:Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...

Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.

Could you please clarify what the root is... oh wait... chakras 😕

@volver: from "no longer" to "not yet" .... an interesting description

I couldn't define these transitions... because I'm trying to force them now... trying to make them fit... and I honestly haven't a clue if it happened during that brief, turbulent period or if it's a longer process... though I suspect it's a short window.. a Calvary

But I certainly remember those dark nights... it happened even after I had emerged from the darkness... specifically, it occurred and I was flooded with peace... and then, completely unexpectedly, I woke up that night feeling... Satan (not in human form, just the sensation)...

I have never felt more humbled

It's curious how we don't actively seek to play games with demons and have them play back with us... we assume it's only "bad" people who do that... but fears and such... Satan thrives on those, and we all have them, more or less😉

It all feels so long ago now.....

Dammit, everything looks beautiful once it's passed😂

p.s.

I don't know, perhaps a day or two fall under that..... and for me, maybe the week before that too🤣

Or is that the transition........... ....hmm, I actually felt that "sacrum" for the first time about two weeks prior

Well, in that case, I could say my Dark Night lasted two weeks

I love conclusions
bullet points 😍

p.s.2

I also have my own term, "the morning of the spirit"😁

Andrew Sanchez572 said:I was just about to bring up Nigredo—Jung actually spent quite a bit of time exploring those specific concepts. You have to view Nigredo as that initial stage of spiritual growth; it’s essentially a process of decay, where you strip away the coarsest material aspects of yourself (much like the scorpion or the Death card in tarot). From there, you move toward Rubedo, eventually reaching the final state of Albedo 🙂

Nigredo seems straightforward enough... clearly that's what we're discussing here.

But could you elaborate on Rubedo and Albedo? I've had at least four other significant experiences following this, and they weren't Nigredo by any stretch of the imagination.😍 So, I'm curious...

Does it perhaps have anything to do with a breakup? It almost certainly does.
The past, the present, and then "the future."

That’s the whole thing, guaranteed.

And regarding this mental fog... I'm not joking here.

It’s quite simple, really. When you brush against the beyond—and I mean via the "wrong" way (though perhaps there is no wrong way, at least not on the PATH we are discussing...)—your very foundations begin to erode.
The thoughts linger, certainly, but they lose all grip on reality.
In fact, madness is born precisely from the attempt to rationalize it.

When a person finds themselves amidst such phenomena, the brain instinctively weaves a narrative... an automatic defense mechanism just to survive.
But in truth? There is nothing there.

Yet, I suppose that is simply the price of clarity.

The more you pay, the more music you get, wouldn't you agree?

wiredbear2 said:

It feels like we’ve finally come full circle, doesn't it... back to where everything started, yet somehow feeling entirely different because of everything we've navigated along the way... As expressed by:
That’s exactly right. But what I find truly fascinating is that point Dragan made regarding the old personality essentially dissolving away, while the new version hasn't quite stepped into its own yet... which explains that strange, unsettled state of being caught somewhere in the middle... No more... i Not quite yet...... which you described so perfectly as that lingering state of pure uncertainty—that restless, uncomfortable feeling of just waiting for something to happen while everything remains completely undefined...

I find myself grappling with that exact same question. It feels like we’re talking about a very specific kind of being "nowhere." How does one even begin to identify that state? I have this nagging suspicion that any one of us could be drifting through that void right now without even realizing it... It seems to me that you can only truly recognize it in hindsight—only once the fog lifts, once you experience that sudden realization of change, and once all the pieces of your life finally start to click back into place. Only then can you look back and say, "Oh, so that's where I was." I suppose what I'm trying to convey is that we can all find ourselves wandering through that dark night of the soul entirely unconsciously...

I suppose there’s no sense in dwelling on what’s already passed, though I find myself constantly looking back at how things used to be... It feels as if we are always searching for a way to return to that sense of clarity we once had, before everything became so complicated and fragmented... hiddenhound3 says:
Personally, I remember that period as a time when I wore black every single day, almost as if I were mourning someone incredibly close to me... yet at the same time, I didn't even know who or what I was grieving, feeling this profound sense of loss for someone I hadn't even truly known...

I can't help but wonder... do you think I could actually pull off wearing all black? Because, if I'm being honest, nearly everything in my wardrobe is that color anyway... 😬

I suppose there is a certain weight to the idea of returning, isn't there... that quiet, heavy pull toward somewhere you once called home, even if that "home" feels like a different world entirely now... It makes me wonder if we ever truly leave anything behind, or if we are just carrying the ghosts of our former selves into every new chapter we attempt to write... As expressed by:
Everything I have... And then she just leaned in and gave me a hug... With this almost irrational, desperate desire to ensure that nothing ever escapes my embrace, I was offering the very best of myself toward creating a sanctuary—a singular, sacred space where no human hand could ever reach...

🙂

As for what comes next in terms of prizes... Afterward.... 🙂

There are simply some things that transcend the reach of human hands... those moments where our own strength and skill just fall short of what’s required... But then again, one might encounter an entirely "new" personality—one that is truly just being born, perhaps even feeling more divine than human in its essence... A true metanoia... 🙂

It’s just not quite the same thing, because even though most of my clothes happen to be black too, that isn't what I mean. 🙂 In this case, it was more about an outward sign of accepting a reality filled with loss—it was a way to embrace that grief, having a specific meaning and importance that felt deeply personal to me.
Then again, it doesn't even have to be what people usually call a "dark night of the soul"... if anything, I’d say the soul didn't experience day or night back then, but just a single, indefinite color, sort of like the grayness of rain... on a gloomy afternoon in late December.

I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone has their own personal nigredo.
Of course, it doesn't necessarily result in "special effects" for everyone—let’s call them that—in the form of some grand catharsis. But the outcome is always the same: improvement, and finally stepping onto the right path.

What I’m curious about is this albedo stage we touched upon. It sounds fascinating to me; I assume it’s the dawn of the soul? It’s a concept that has always captivated me... I spent so much time waiting for that moment. We usually only recognize an experience once we've already lived through it, but that idea of the "soul's dawn" fascinated me immediately following my own nigredo. I began noticing the word "dawn" appearing everywhere—not even in spiritual texts, just in literature, music, photography... and I knew mine was coming.

And I suppose it's nearly impossible to truly DEFINE things of this nature...
I think I'll go Google if there's more on this, though if anyone else feels inclined to expand the discussion toward rubedo and albedo... I'd love that.🎉

Earlier today, I was reading a thread where someone mentioned that the devil resides in the spine—not in a physical sense, but as an energetic one.

It might actually make sense if we compare it to this topic... specifically, once you move into the throat chakra, above the spine... the nigredo—that fear of the devil—simply ceases to exist.

Is that a fair parallel? 😈