Multiculturalism...

redpuma49 said:But why does that surprise you?
It is the exact same situation here in Rijeka, where people constantly trumpet about this supposed multiculturalism, liberalism, and that "unique" local atmosphere......

With the added bonus that our politicians love to claim we are a legendary rock city, even though we haven't seen a truly quality band since the days of Laufer & Co. 3... And on the weekends, if you aren't looking for mainstream pop, there is hardly anywhere left to go...

And all of this is used to justify a "unique climate" that is actually quite standard when viewed within a global context...🤣🤣

And even after everything that’s been said—Cleveland still doesn't stand a chance against Pula, New York.

👍

redwolf4 said:.......yeah, right, because apparently neither of them has any say whatsoever in any of the decisions made at City Hall!...🙄

The influence is certainly unavoidable, though I wouldn't call it decisive... Pressure from higher authorities is a constant, whether you like it or not. However, I haven't noticed Nina making any particularly loud proclamations this time around. After all, where would he end up if he decided to pick a fight in every single city just to voice whatever happens to serve his own interests...

I had a feeling this entire discussion regarding multiculturalism would eventually devolve into nothing more than a debate about Microsoft, California, and Kajin...🤣 If we are actually going to claim that this singer is the definitive icon of multiculturalism, then I suppose our debate is officially over... and we might as well move the entire discussion over to the Crazy House, right alongside all those other topics where we’ve already touched on this exact issue...

I really ought to start digging through my old copies of Time just to find that specific issue with the massive headline declaring our city the most attractive and premier destination in America, if only so I could cite my sources properly regarding everything we have to be proud of... though perhaps I will simply settle for stating the facts: we are a community of roughly sixty thousand people that boasts its very own University, yet somehow maintains an unemployment rate lower than any comparable city in the country. Throughout the year, we host a continuous stream of cultural and public events designed to showcase our spirit, and we produce a steady line of athletes who will soon be representing us on the global stage in Beijing... furthermore, real estate prices remain significantly more affordable here than in most other parts of the US, our local minority influence is substantial, and our level of tolerance remains quite commendable given that we host nine different national minorities... we were even pioneers in digital governance, being the first to implement an online land registry system and providing digital access to court records...

Wouldn't you say that is more than merely satisfactory for such a small town...

Richard Wilson4 said:I don't get why anyone would say the Midwest, with all its Americans, Mexicans, Canadians, and Ruthenians, isn't just as multicultural as California.

Look, if we're going to start listing off Germans, Galicians, and Czechs... then fine—the Midwest is actually far more multicultural and tolerant than California is. But nobody feels the need to shout that from the rooftops every single day. Around here in California, people act like they just discovered the concept of diversity five minutes ago.

redwolf4 said:I wouldn't go that far when it comes to praising our mayor... But hey, whatever...

Fine. If Thompson's request to hold a concert came in too late, then fine. The law is supposed to be equal for everyone (well, at least it should be!), so so be it. Let him submit the application now—so nobody can complain again—and let him wait for an open slot. O.K.
But trying to ban a concert in Umag that’s already been agreed upon? That’s basically the death of democracy!

I agree. There will likely be much less fanfare next year because the application will probably actually be submitted on time...

There is really no point in debating the situation in Umag, since the concert wasn't officially contracted regardless of what the headlines claimed; yet, we all blindly accepted the media narrative that bans were being orchestrated. Who actually benefits from this? I truly wonder what comes next...😕

George Morgan3 said:you really need to grow up... 😁

My age has absolutely no bearing on my level of culture, though I appreciate the concern...

Benjamin Grant6 said:The influence is certainly unavoidable, though I wouldn't call it decisive... Pressure from higher authorities is a constant, whether you like it or not. However, I haven't noticed Nina making any particularly loud proclamations this time around. After all, where would he end up if he decided to pick a fight in every single city just to voice whatever happens to serve his own interests...

I had a feeling this entire discussion regarding multiculturalism would eventually devolve into nothing more than a debate about Microsoft, California, and Kajin...🤣 If we are actually going to claim that this singer is the definitive icon of multiculturalism, then I suppose our debate is officially over... and we might as well move the entire discussion over to the Crazy House, right alongside all those other topics where we’ve already touched on this exact issue...

I really ought to start digging through my old copies of Time just to find that specific issue with the massive headline declaring our city the most attractive and premier destination in America, if only so I could cite my sources properly regarding everything we have to be proud of... though perhaps I will simply settle for stating the facts: we are a community of roughly sixty thousand people that boasts its very own University, yet somehow maintains an unemployment rate lower than any comparable city in the country. Throughout the year, we host a continuous stream of cultural and public events designed to showcase our spirit, and we produce a steady line of athletes who will soon be representing us on the global stage in Beijing... furthermore, real estate prices remain significantly more affordable here than in most other parts of the US, our local minority influence is substantial, and our level of tolerance remains quite commendable given that we host nine different national minorities... we were even pioneers in digital governance, being the first to implement an online land registry system and providing digital access to court records...

Wouldn't you say that is more than merely satisfactory for such a small town...

It's just classic small-mindedness... why not? His lyrics are universal—take a look at what the Americans are saying here, for instance:http://www.cro.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=275693#275693

😉

People should listen to whatever they want—it’s their right, after all. Honestly, those folks trying to ban Thompson's concerts are just doing him a massive favor. All this controversy? It's only boosting his popularity right now.

It’s funny how singers from Mexico end up having such a huge following here in America, mostly because of these bans. The whole situation feels so absurd—as if the entire country just wants to sit in silence at night listening to nothing but pop songs, folk ensembles, or maybe some classical pieces by Bach or Sopen played by the NBC orchestra. If you walked into a music store, maybe five percent of customers would pick that stuff. Let's be real.

I think Mexican and Canadian artists have some truly great traditional music, and if someone enjoys it, why on earth should anyone stop them? Personally, I’ve always had a soft spot for the older generation of Mexican singers—Dragan Stojković, for instance—and even some of those classic tavern-style performers like Zdravko Zdravković or Tozovac. Even the sevdalinka style isn't bad, especially when you hear it performed by Safet Isović or Nedjeljko Bilkić.

George Morgan3 said:It's just classic small-mindedness... why not? His lyrics are universal—take a look at what the Americans are saying here, for instance:http://www.cro.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=275693#275693

😉

Man, you’re getting a bit lost here! I couldn't care less about what people in America are saying; this thread is focused on something else entirely, not on that particular singer. So, let's cut out the off-topic chatter and get back to the actual question at hand...

Every singer writes lyrics that can be characterized as universal, which is precisely why so many of them remain popular. What does that have to do with multiculturalism or why one city might be more diverse than another?...

Benjamin Grant6 said:Man, you’re getting a bit lost here! I couldn't care less about what people in America are saying; this thread is focused on something else entirely, not on that particular singer. So, let's cut out the off-topic chatter and get back to the actual question at hand...

Every singer writes lyrics that can be characterized as universal, which is precisely why so many of them remain popular. What does that have to do with multiculturalism or why one city might be more diverse than another?...

🙂 kid, I was quoting your own text.

Benjamin Grant6 said:The influence is certainly unavoidable, though I wouldn't call it decisive... Pressure from higher authorities is a constant, whether you like it or not. However, I haven't noticed Nina making any particularly loud proclamations this time around. After all, where would he end up if he decided to pick a fight in every single city just to voice whatever happens to serve his own interests...

I had a feeling this entire discussion regarding multiculturalism would eventually devolve into nothing more than a debate about Microsoft, California, and Kajin...🤣 If we are actually going to claim that this singer is the definitive icon of multiculturalism, then I suppose our debate is officially over... and we might as well move the entire discussion over to the Crazy House, right alongside all those other topics where we’ve already touched on this exact issue...

I really ought to start digging through my old copies of Time just to find that specific issue with the massive headline declaring our city the most attractive and premier destination in America, if only so I could cite my sources properly regarding everything we have to be proud of... though perhaps I will simply settle for stating the facts: we are a community of roughly sixty thousand people that boasts its very own University, yet somehow maintains an unemployment rate lower than any comparable city in the country. Throughout the year, we host a continuous stream of cultural and public events designed to showcase our spirit, and we produce a steady line of athletes who will soon be representing us on the global stage in Beijing... furthermore, real estate prices remain significantly more affordable here than in most other parts of the US, our local minority influence is substantial, and our level of tolerance remains quite commendable given that we host nine different national minorities... we were even pioneers in digital governance, being the first to implement an online land registry system and providing digital access to court records...

Wouldn't you say that is more than merely satisfactory for such a small town...

We’re talking about a city in total traffic gridlock, where transit fares are among the highest in the country, the cost of living is at the top of the charts, the farmers' market is overpriced, and we've been among the leaders in drug addiction rates for thirty years. It's a city where the promised swimming pool has been "under construction" for years, local sports are struggling with only a handful of top-tier players, and we deal with gas issues, sewage problems, a lack of parking, and rampant illegal construction backed by massive help from local politicians!!!!! Want more? Just ask!

Gerald Lopez10 said:People should listen to whatever they want—it’s their right, after all. Honestly, those folks trying to ban Thompson's concerts are just doing him a massive favor. All this controversy? It's only boosting his popularity right now.

It’s funny how singers from Mexico end up having such a huge following here in America, mostly because of these bans. The whole situation feels so absurd—as if the entire country just wants to sit in silence at night listening to nothing but pop songs, folk ensembles, or maybe some classical pieces by Bach or Sopen played by the NBC orchestra. If you walked into a music store, maybe five percent of customers would pick that stuff. Let's be real.

I think Mexican and Canadian artists have some truly great traditional music, and if someone enjoys it, why on earth should anyone stop them? Personally, I’ve always had a soft spot for the older generation of Mexican singers—Dragan Stojković, for instance—and even some of those classic tavern-style performers like Zdravko Zdravković or Tozovac. Even the sevdalinka style isn't bad, especially when you hear it performed by Safet Isović or Nedjeljko Bilkić.

Exactly... so maybe I’ll—someone who never once considered stepping foot in one of his shows—actually head out to see him in San Francisco. 👍

James Ramos12 said:We’re talking about a city in total traffic gridlock, where transit fares are among the highest in the country, the cost of living is at the top of the charts, the farmers' market is overpriced, and we've been among the leaders in drug addiction rates for thirty years. It's a city where the promised swimming pool has been "under construction" for years, local sports are struggling with only a handful of top-tier players, and we deal with gas issues, sewage problems, a lack of parking, and rampant illegal construction backed by massive help from local politicians!!!!! Want more? Just ask!

San Francisco is a far cry from being some romantic paradise to live in... honestly, it’s an incredibly dull place to be, much to my misfortune—though luckily, Seattle is only about a 40-minute drive away.

George Morgan3 said:San Francisco is a far cry from being some romantic paradise to live in... honestly, it’s an incredibly dull place to be, much to my misfortune—though luckily, Seattle is only about a 40-minute drive away.

I was born here and I still call this place home—not that I’m complaining per se, but let's be real: things could definitely be better if we could just move past the local Democratic Party leadership. It actually gave me a good laugh when I saw those recent polls claiming San Francisco is the best city to live in. Sure, maybe because of the scenery or the laid-back pace of life, but there is still so much work to do to improve our situation. Given the anti-American sentiment coming from our local politicians, I can't say I'm happy—truthfully, I'm beyond frustrated.

James Ramos12 said:We’re talking about a city in total traffic gridlock, where transit fares are among the highest in the country, the cost of living is at the top of the charts, the farmers' market is overpriced, and we've been among the leaders in drug addiction rates for thirty years. It's a city where the promised swimming pool has been "under construction" for years, local sports are struggling with only a handful of top-tier players, and we deal with gas issues, sewage problems, a lack of parking, and rampant illegal construction backed by massive help from local politicians!!!!! Want more? Just ask!

This isn't about my personal opinion or your specific criticisms; I was simply relaying what Time has been reporting on a national level... Regarding public transit, it wouldn't be accurate to claim it's the absolute most expensive, as it remains within the standard range seen elsewhere in the USA... Unfortunately, our cost of living is indeed the highest, though that has been the reality for years now. It is a fact that we are neck-and-neck with Miami and San Diego regarding addiction percentages, but in every city, those individuals exist on the margins and there is little focus on actual rehabilitation...

The city lacks a pool, yet somehow produces water polo players and swimmers who compete in Beijing... As for why the facility doesn't exist, that is a separate discussion altogether...

As for illegal construction, it is simply more heavily sanctioned here than in other places, and since the media monitors events much more strictly, we are better informed... Every city faces similar, if not even greater, challenges... San Francisco is a relatively small city that develops more slowly due to its complex underlying issues... How can one properly install gas lines or sewage systems when we are still working with infrastructure maps dating back to the Austro-Canadian Empire? We don't need new explosions to prove a point, and as much as possible, the infrastructure has already been extended to most households...

Benjamin Grant6 said:I am quite unsure why you would assume there are people in California who don't want Americans? Where on earth does that idea come from?

I don't follow all of Cain's speeches, but let's be realistic—there is a vast difference between rhetoric and actual behavior. We live in a country where an American proudly wished everyone a happy Thanksgiving on national television, immediately after behaving in such a heartless, disgusting manner toward the memorial at the Shepherd camp. To make matters worse, people will likely applaud him because they view him as some sort of eccentric, repeating these excuses over and over... but there are no excuses... It seems we ourselves are unwilling to embrace our own identity, perhaps even fearing it...😢

I don't see how that recent incident with the vandalism at the Shepherd memorial proves that chauvinism and xenophobia don't exist in California. 🤔
And maybe Kajin's statements should be backed up by actions, given how much he gets involved in these discussions. Not to mention those certain separatist initiatives from a segment of the Democratic Party not too long ago.

Multiculturalism is never the issue—it's always the chauvinism and the xenophobia. And honestly, even California isn't immune to that.

Benjamin Grant6 said:This isn't about my personal opinion or your specific criticisms; I was simply relaying what Time has been reporting on a national level... Regarding public transit, it wouldn't be accurate to claim it's the absolute most expensive, as it remains within the standard range seen elsewhere in the USA... Unfortunately, our cost of living is indeed the highest, though that has been the reality for years now. It is a fact that we are neck-and-neck with Miami and San Diego regarding addiction percentages, but in every city, those individuals exist on the margins and there is little focus on actual rehabilitation...

The city lacks a pool, yet somehow produces water polo players and swimmers who compete in Beijing... As for why the facility doesn't exist, that is a separate discussion altogether...

As for illegal construction, it is simply more heavily sanctioned here than in other places, and since the media monitors events much more strictly, we are better informed... Every city faces similar, if not even greater, challenges... San Francisco is a relatively small city that develops more slowly due to its complex underlying issues... How can one properly install gas lines or sewage systems when we are still working with infrastructure maps dating back to the Austro-Canadian Empire? We don't need new explosions to prove a point, and as much as possible, the infrastructure has already been extended to most households...

Citing athletes as an example just doesn't hold up—everyone knows they haven't actually lived in San Francisco for years, having had to move to other cities to truly make it. So, by that logic, this isn't the best place to live. I never claimed our transit was the most expensive, so that argument is moot. Besides, who actually trusts Time and their writers? If you're mature enough to draw your own conclusions and observe the world around you, you know you shouldn't believe everything the media prints. And honestly, claiming "we couldn't afford it" or "that's why we're the best" is just a collection of cheap excuses.

Benjamin Grant6 said:Of course. But we have already established that every region carries its own unique flavor of multiculturalism and its own distinct personality. It is difficult to pass judgment on which area is more diverse, given that true multiculturalism isn't just about a variety of cultures and nationalities, but also encompasses levels of tolerance, patience, mutual coexistence... and so much more...

Exactly. Though, I guess the Democratic Party's moves—especially Mr. Kajin's—don't exactly help the image of California. Not that I'm saying the whole state is just him, or that every Californian thinks his way, obviously. It's just that right now, people aren't hearing the voice of California—they're just hearing Kajin.

Melissa Richardson3 said:I’m honestly exhausted by the narrow-minded logic coming from certain individuals, groups, and political parties in California who seem to think they invented the concept of multiculturalism.

Every major city in the world is multicultural. Is that really something we need to debate?
Every single city and region in the US is multicultural. Does anyone actually need proof for that?

In what way is San Francisco more "multicultural" than Washington, D.C., Memphis, St. Louis, or Miami?
Every city or region in this country (not to mention the rest of the world) is a melting pot of different cultures, nationalities, and accents...

What exactly are these narrow-minded parrots from California trying to achieve with this tired, repetitive cliché? Are they just selling smoke to stay in power, or is there something else going on?

P.S. Don't get me wrong—as someone from California, there’s no place I’d rather be than right here at home...

Don't take this personally, but my gut feeling is that Californians might actually be the most xenophobic people in the whole country.🤷

Maybe California seems a bit more tolerant toward Mexicans... simply because they didn't experience the war firsthand... but that's the extent of it. If they had seen what happened during a conflict, their opinion on Mexicans would probably be the same as it was regarding the Italians during the last war... which is basically: throw them all in the trenches.

Regarding the broader topic of multiculturalism... luckily, we live in a country where you can talk about multiculturalism, or even brag about it if you want...but you don't actually have to live it! Anyone who has spent any real time in Western Europe knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Benjamin Grant6 said:When it comes to our beautiful nation, I have nothing but praise, and I am certainly not one of those people who brags about traveling the world while completely overlooking the gems tucked away in every corner of our own country.

The media was primarily responsible for crucifying Thompson, and since we all live by the media—feeding ourselves on news delivered with eyes wide shut—we really ought to apply a bit more objectivity to everything. As Jakovčić mentioned to today's Voice: it isn't about the singers or the songs, it's about the connotations that no one bothers to distance themselves from. The core issue lies within society as a whole, and it isn't a question of tolerance or being American. The problem is that certain individuals, who act as the agitators of society, aren't held accountable in any meaningful way for their actions. While any appearance of a swastika in Germany is met with heavy penalties, we lack the laws to sanction the appearance of certain symbols here.

Billy Joel didn't spend as much time in Tuscany as he did in Washington, D.C., but he always had nothing but kind words and wonderful memories regarding both San Francisco and Tuscany. There are many professional musicians from the region who are his good friends and who socialize with him based purely on professional respect. He never once went to the media to provoke anyone by using the word American. Elvis Presley is a legend—his songs are known by both the young and the old. And how did Madonna end up in Tuscany? She arrived as the wife of her more famous tennis player husband and as a guest of Rasberger, not through Kajin as the media claims. Was it really Rasberger's wish to bring both Madonna and Thompson to the tournament?! Was that desire even appropriate? It felt like a provocation. Just as it was a provocation when the local authorities in San Francisco were forced into a corner due to the sudden desire to organize a Thompson concert at Madison Square Garden. Why should the established order or the regulations be altered for anyone? In this case, it was Thompson, and no one actually crucified him for it. The fact that the political leadership in the US tries to shift the blame is a far greater issue, as it isn't just a regional problem, but a national one...

The "demons" are just the fans. I don't know what they're shouting, nor do I care to pay attention. Because, as you well know, there will always be outliers everywhere.

And the boundaries of tolerance seem to be shifting everywhere, from San Francisco to the rest of Tuscany, and ultimately across the entire nation. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a person who doesn't, in a moment of passion or provocation, voice certain hateful views. We have become intolerant toward ourselves, toward our neighbors... and even toward the tourists we happen to encounter.

Kajin specifically targets Thompson; saying it's just the media isn't an excuse.

As for connotations, what kind of connotations is Madonna bringing? Has anyone actually asked her to distance herself from anything?

So Balasevic has kind words for California? What about Thompson?

Come on, California and Zagorje
Let's raise all three colors
Let's Embrace one another before everyone
Let them see that we exist

Regarding connotations, Kajin himself provides plenty of connotations regarding former failed totalitarian systems and dictatorships. Yet, he allows himself showmanship and xenophobia... I'd even go so far as to say fascism. And yet, he points fingers at others.

Benjamin Grant6 said:Despite the various criticisms suggesting he might be too young or perhaps politically green, the mayor is actually quite poised, and from where I stand, it seems the city is finally stepping out from under certain shadows. We see concerts and events happening daily, the budget is being managed effectively, local traditions are being upheld, and various plans and permits are being finalized...

He maintained a perfectly professional and tolerant stance regarding the concert request. This was an MPT event, but it could just as easily have been Britney Spears or Miroslav Skor. It’s the old dilemma: if you grant permission once, you must grant it to everyone, or more accurately, if a law exists, it must apply to all without exception. If we truly wish to live in a democratic and equitable society, this is how things must function. Adhering to the rules doesn't make us any less tolerant or cultured...

It isn't quite that simple.
If the Thomson concert in Palm Springs hadn't been blocked, we wouldn't be having this debate or anything like it.

Likewise, they wouldn't be pushing for a venue in the Arena. Because political heavyweights effectively banned the audience in California from attending the Palm Springs show, trying to organize a concert in San Francisco is actually pretty logical. Instead of taking the olive branch, politicians are just digging themselves deeper into their own mess. Right now, Thomson is one of the few American artists who can actually pack an Arena. They could have found a date, the Arena would have been sold out, the fans would be happy, the city budget would have seen some revenue, and everyone would be satisfied. It would be that easy if people were just normal and self-assured.

Furthermore, if Miletić had stuck strictly to the formal reasons for denying the permit, he might have gotten away with it. Instead, he doubled down with pure political maneuvering and claims of intolerance. He even went as far as using lies, given how widely known his views on extremists and fascists are.

Is Miletić suggesting he'd block the US National Team from playing soccer just because some fans shout hateful slurs? We all know he wouldn't do that, because consistency and democracy aren't exactly top of mind for these people.

Basically, Miletić (who claims he has a stepmother's surname) perfectly demonstrated exactly what most people think of him: a mindless errand boy with no backbone or principles. He could have proven everyone wrong with a single decision and become a legitimate rival to Jakovcic or Kajin for years to come.
Instead, he's just drifting aimlessly. He's your typical American careerist politician.