What's with the "spiritual gurus" on this forum!?

Kenneth Peterson5 said:@Brian Foster3,
Is this whole "path to enlightenment" thing just an endless loop of trying to talk sense into people who have absolutely zero interest in listening?

Brian Foster3 said:Man, he actually *wants* to talk. I’m not even trying here! You can see how much he loves jumping in to try and "wake up" everyone around him with his latest obsession: "Let's expose those Kabbalah idiots who don't know anything!" He’s honestly having way too much fun with this to ever shut his... well, you know, mouth. Honestly, I'm basically doing him a favor. 😍 He’s found a brand new dopamine hit, and now he’s stuck in this loop where he’s instinctively chasing that high, following these primal urges for validation and excitement, constantly sprinting toward whatever gives him that rush—as long as it feels better than the actual work required on the "path." So, by just ignoring him, I'm actually giving him exactly what he wants.😍

Brian Foster3 said:Look, we have to actually define what awakening even means first. It’s nothing more than the direct perception of the spiritual realm. And since the spiritual world is made up of different levels, there are obviously different levels of being awakened.

The truth is simply whatever the person perceiving the spiritual is actually experiencing. That’s how they feel the spiritual reality—as the absolute truth. Compared to that, everything else is just a total lie.

And let's get one thing straight: both lie and truth still exist as categories (they don't just vanish) after that initial awakening and while you're climbing those spiritual rungs all the way back to the Source.

Honestly, arguing and philosophizing about what counts as truth versus a lie from a spiritual standpoint is just useless, empty work. You just have to get there, and once you do, everything becomes more than crystal clear. That’s the only thing that matters. Just get there.

briskraven28 said:If a person creates in the direction of the "greater good," then they are building—strengthening, let's call it—a sort of spirit of unity. Is that what you mean by "pure spirit"? It feels like a matter of terminology to me; when you say it is "always necessary to act or not to act," you aren't referring to the individual, but rather to some universal relationship
of action and reaction—constructive versus destructive...?

"....strengthens the connection with the 'pure spirit'."

I ask because if the "pure spirit" is everything that exists—whatever you want to call it: consciousness, the absolute, God, the collective nothingness...—how can we strengthen something that we already are, and are uniquely and solely?...

Utilizing circumstances that present an opportunity to do good for oneself and others.
Everyone possesses such opportunities, as well as the capacity to recognize them.
Often, despite the circumstances, we willfully and consciously fail to seize the chance.

And what are the reasons for failing to recognize that capacity? To reach that point, something must be overcome. What is it that gets bypassed? Judgment? Because if I harbor judgment within myself, all other low passions follow—vengeance, malice, envy, hatred... Once you realize this ability to open yourself to—let's call it—the "greater good," it becomes difficult to return to incapacity; it becomes hard to resent or judge anymore. To react, yes—but to judge, no...

An illusion is always "real," regardless of the "width" of the frame we place it in.

The width of the frame and the illusion are one and the same; the frame cannot be wider than the illusion—especially not the other way around. That illusion is everything. Or rather, what lies outside the illusion (the frame)? Is that just another illusion? A higher level of illusion?...

briskraven28 said:If a person creates in the direction of the "greater good," then they are building—strengthening, let's call it—a sort of spirit of unity. Is that what you mean by "pure spirit"? It feels like a matter of terminology to me; when you say it is "always necessary to act or not to act," you aren't referring to the individual, but rather to some universal relationship
of action and reaction—constructive versus destructive...?

"....strengthens the connection with the 'pure spirit'."

I ask because if the "pure spirit" is everything that exists—whatever you want to call it: consciousness, the absolute, God, the collective nothingness...—how can we strengthen something that we already are, and are uniquely and solely?...

Utilizing circumstances that present an opportunity to do good for oneself and others.
Everyone possesses such opportunities, as well as the capacity to recognize them.
Often, despite the circumstances, we willfully and consciously fail to seize the chance.

And what are the reasons for failing to recognize that capacity? To reach that point, something must be overcome. What is it that gets bypassed? Judgment? Because if I harbor judgment within myself, all other low passions follow—vengeance, malice, envy, hatred... Once you realize this ability to open yourself to—let's call it—the "greater good," it becomes difficult to return to incapacity; it becomes hard to resent or judge anymore. To react, yes—but to judge, no...

An illusion is always "real," regardless of the "width" of the frame we place it in.

The width of the frame and the illusion are one and the same; the frame cannot be wider than the illusion—especially not the other way around. That illusion is everything. Or rather, what lies outside the illusion (the frame)? Is that just another illusion? A higher level of illusion?...

briskraven28 said:If a person creates in the direction of the "greater good," then they are building—strengthening, let's call it—a sort of spirit of unity. Is that what you mean by "pure spirit"? It feels like a matter of terminology to me; when you say it is "always necessary to act or not to act," you aren't referring to the individual, but rather to some universal relationship
of action and reaction—constructive versus destructive...?

"....strengthens the connection with the 'pure spirit'."

I ask because if the "pure spirit" is everything that exists—whatever you want to call it: consciousness, the absolute, God, the collective nothingness...—how can we strengthen something that we already are, and are uniquely and solely?...

Utilizing circumstances that present an opportunity to do good for oneself and others.
Everyone possesses such opportunities, as well as the capacity to recognize them.
Often, despite the circumstances, we willfully and consciously fail to seize the chance.

And what are the reasons for failing to recognize that capacity? To reach that point, something must be overcome. What is it that gets bypassed? Judgment? Because if I harbor judgment within myself, all other low passions follow—vengeance, malice, envy, hatred... Once you realize this ability to open yourself to—let's call it—the "greater good," it becomes difficult to return to incapacity; it becomes hard to resent or judge anymore. To react, yes—but to judge, no...

An illusion is always "real," regardless of the "width" of the frame we place it in.

The width of the frame and the illusion are one and the same; the frame cannot be wider than the illusion—especially not the other way around. That illusion is everything. Or rather, what lies outside the illusion (the frame)? Is that just another illusion? A higher level of illusion?...

briskraven28 said:If a person creates in the direction of the "greater good," then they are building—strengthening, let's call it—a sort of spirit of unity. Is that what you mean by "pure spirit"? It feels like a matter of terminology to me; when you say it is "always necessary to act or not to act," you aren't referring to the individual, but rather to some universal relationship
of action and reaction—constructive versus destructive...?

"....strengthens the connection with the 'pure spirit'."

I ask because if the "pure spirit" is everything that exists—whatever you want to call it: consciousness, the absolute, God, the collective nothingness...—how can we strengthen something that we already are, and are uniquely and solely?...

Utilizing circumstances that present an opportunity to do good for oneself and others.
Everyone possesses such opportunities, as well as the capacity to recognize them.
Often, despite the circumstances, we willfully and consciously fail to seize the chance.

And what are the reasons for failing to recognize that capacity? To reach that point, something must be overcome. What is it that gets bypassed? Judgment? Because if I harbor judgment within myself, all other low passions follow—vengeance, malice, envy, hatred... Once you realize this ability to open yourself to—let's call it—the "greater good," it becomes difficult to return to incapacity; it becomes hard to resent or judge anymore. To react, yes—but to judge, no...

An illusion is always "real," regardless of the "width" of the frame we place it in.

The width of the frame and the illusion are one and the same; the frame cannot be wider than the illusion—especially not the other way around. That illusion is everything. Or rather, what lies outside the illusion (the frame)? Is that just another illusion? A higher level of illusion?...

Brian Foster3 said:Look, we have to actually define what awakening even means first. It’s nothing more than the direct perception of the spiritual realm. And since the spiritual world is made up of different levels, there are obviously different levels of being awakened.

The truth is simply whatever the person perceiving the spiritual is actually experiencing. That’s how they feel the spiritual reality—as the absolute truth. Compared to that, everything else is just a total lie.

And let's get one thing straight: both lie and truth still exist as categories (they don't just vanish) after that initial awakening and while you're climbing those spiritual rungs all the way back to the Source.

Honestly, arguing and philosophizing about what counts as truth versus a lie from a spiritual standpoint is just useless, empty work. You just have to get there, and once you do, everything becomes more than crystal clear. That’s the only thing that matters. Just get there.

steeleagle13 said:And who sits at the top: the Pope 😂?

Or maybe Saint Peter 😂

placidharbor7 said:Madonna, if you aren't throwing stones at the Kabbalists.

steeleagle13 said:What if it isn't the Virgin? 😁😁

Mary 😁

silentcyclist3 said:It’s a universal relationship. Of individuals, society, and everything else in motion.

We recognize who we are and what our purpose is...

The reasons vary, and judgment is just one consequence of those reasons. Realizing something doesn't necessarily mean you will act in accordance with it.
As they say in those astrology books, a human being oscillates over time; circumstances change, and our reactions change along with them.

Yes, I suppose I wasn't clear. I'll drop the word "width" and just stick to the frames.

The truth exists beyond perception.

silentcyclist3;15202835 said:

we recognize who we are and what our purpose is...

-but what is that purpose? (honestly, I haven't a clue)
-what's your take, specifically? (if you're too uncomfortable to say, just don't)
-as an individual? (can we get a bit more precise here?) just trying to use "I" if that makes it easier to explain...

hollowtinker18 said:-tell me, please (I'm actually curious)... these "frameworks," are they like molds or something?... people, from what I've seen, love pigeonholing everything into their own little boxes (which makes this all a bit too vague, right?)
-is everything inside those boxes just a lie, or...?
-what kind of truth are we talking about?
-how do you define truth? what even is it? (do you have to understand the lie first to find the truth?)
-is there one single truth, or several?
(if your answer is "it depends on who you ask," fine... but can you give me your own personal take instead?)... thanks.

hollowtinker18;15211177 said:

silentcyclist3 said:It’s a universal relationship. Of individuals, society, and everything else in motion.

We recognize who we are and what our purpose is...

The reasons vary, and judgment is just one consequence of those reasons. Realizing something doesn't necessarily mean you will act in accordance with it.
As they say in those astrology books, a human being oscillates over time; circumstances change, and our reactions change along with them.

Yes, I suppose I wasn't clear. I'll drop the word "width" and just stick to the frames.

The truth exists beyond perception.

I already wrote something about this in that "wants and needs" PDF.

If you're asking what that bearded man was thinking when he imagined us here on Earth, then I really don't have an answer for you.
And if I did, I guess I'd be incredibly wealthy by now. 😁

People tend to find their purpose through certain impulses that follow them throughout their lives....
Naturally, they realize it when the moment arrives (if it ever does).

placidharbor7 said:Does the Kabbalah teach that being "awake" provides us with specific motivations for our actions?😁

steeleagle13 said:And who sits at the top: the Pope 😂?

Or maybe Saint Peter 😂

placidharbor7 said:There are plenty of Virgin devotees around here, so I bet those Kabbalists are getting pretty worked up!😉

Brian Foster3 said:Man, everything is right there in section 1.16 ☕

Trust me, you wouldn't believe how easy it is to shut down those Instinctively Unconscious Non-Sense Deniers—they always end up falling apart because they think their own little "private logic" actually matters.☕

silentcyclist3 said:The truth is that lies are also true. 🙂
We live within lies just as much as we live within truth. It's a balance, I guess.
What kind of truth? 😂
Do you really think I can provide a simple, straightforward answer to a question like that?
Maybe I can just say that certain patterns exist because they always unfold the same way, and those rules manifest in every detail, from a single molecule to the world and out to the entire universe.
You are both lie and truth. I suppose the more you recognize the falsehood within yourself, the more you will grasp the truth.

Multiple truths?
I would say instead that we only ever perceive fragments of a single truth. 🙂

placidharbor7 said:The Enforcer of Meaning.🙄

hollowtinker18 said:-hey, placidharbor7... look, I'm just the new guy here, so nothing makes sense to me, right? Like, what? Who? What truth? You're talking about some heterocyclic Disharmony? And who's actually running this show? Someone should tell me, for God's sake.🤷
(Listen, you never really know)... and you guys are discussing some high-level stuff here. This "pusher of meaning"—what is that supposed to be? Some kind of dietary supplement or something?
(Man, I hated going to school, so I never really grasped cause and effect...
but, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say you're basically the boss here, since you've got your own massive thread stretching over a hundred pages)👍

hollowtinker18 said:-Okay, so you've given me some microscopic precision on those terms.🤣
-Truth? Why even ask? lol
-Look, I'm relatively new to this whole spirituality thing. I don't know if everyone else is actually some Zen master or spiritual superhero, but what are they doing? Are they all high on LSD-Coke and just masking it—as someone once said—with walking sticks? Whatever. You and Vertigo-ste seem grounded in your spirituality; at least you aren't just flexing knowledge like the rest of them. (Shout out to the exceptions, I guess.)
-Isn't humility, wisdom, and meekness supposed to be the hallmarks of spirituality?
-I guess we aren't using the exact same dictionary, but hey, we're looking in the same direction.😁(For starters)
-It feels like people love overcomplicating things just so they have something to lecture about, usually adding that little disclaimer: "I might be wrong, feel free to correct me."🤷-🙂
-The concept of "spirituality"—everyone interprets it differently. It seems subjective to some, while others just cling to it to feed their ego.
-Fine. I get the explanation about truth, but it’s hard for me to wrap my head around right now (and honestly, I need a bit more time)😁—how can you equate truth with a lie and weigh them like a scale?
-Why can't we just view truth and lies as separate things?
-And what are these "pieces" of one truth? How many are there in the end? (You did say "one truth," after all.) Why?
-With every vague answer you give, I could just keep asking "why" forever, spinning in circles until we either get dizzy or finally hit the truth.🙂
(Look, if you aren't feeling it, just say so instead of being difficult, okay? But if you want to hear how I perceive my own truth, fine... whatever. I won't delete this; if it's unclear, we'll figure it out.)
-There, six questions. I'm waiting for a decent response. (If it's hard to explain, just try describing how you experience and interpret it personally. Thanks.)
Btw—please, humbly and proudly, stop attacking our master Dustin in the comments of his high-quality, high-budget, representative, mega-spiritual posts.😁(Wouldn't want anyone to miss out on that wisdom, right?)☕