What's with the "spiritual gurus" on this forum!?

placidharbor7 said:The so-called "spiritual" "idiots."

😁

briskraven28 said:Since you seem so eager to define terms—would you mind actually defining "spiritual" first?...
Definitions are unnecessary—it is an illusion to think we can define anything when our very tool for definition, language, is what constructs the syntagms of reality as we perceive them... As long as you view life through the lens of language, you will struggle with the need to define. Once the grip of vocabulary finally loosens, perhaps you will stop seeking definitions altogether and simply begin approaching what you subjectively experience as "reality."

Spirituality is composed of various levels—which means, naturally, that levels of awakening can vary quite significantly...

I find myself skeptical regarding your concept of levels—it’s much like claiming the universe is composed of distinct layers; essentially saying it's infinite yet attempting to grasp it by imagining floors... solar systems, galaxies, the Milky Way, micro versus macro... it just doesn't follow.
To my mind, there is no distinction between the spiritual and the non-spiritual—that divide exists only within language itself. It implies a fragmented way of perceiving things, a tendency to categorize... and once you allow that division to take root in your head, you inevitably fall for the illusion of "growth." If something is truly whole, it is indivisible; it simply *is*. There is no room for fragmentation, and therefore, no room for growth—only the growing illusion of progress. One might call this "pure consciousness," or whatever terminology people prefer... personally, I’d just call it "cat's paw." 😳 The only thing that matters—provided we actually understand one another—is that we are on the same page...

The truth is simply whatever the individual perceives spiritually—exactly what they sense. That sensation becomes their spiritual reality, their truth. Anything else... well, that’s just a lie.

If there exists some notion of wholeness, indivisibility, or pure consciousness—whatever one chooses to label it—what part of that is mere fabrication, and what constitutes the truth? Is it even possible to separate the two...

It is an illusion—and frankly, a waste of breath—to sit around philosophizing about what constitutes spiritual truth versus falsehood. One simply needs to show up... once you arrive, everything becomes more than crystal clear. That is the priority. Just get there.

On this PDF, people constantly spout these parrot-like "dogmas" regarding some supposed divine "ineffability"—this idea that "awakening" is also somehow "ineffable"... I suspect this has nothing to do with true ineffability and everything to do with the speaker's own lack of clarity—or perhaps just a mediocre ability to articulate a thought. That isn't inherently a flaw, mind you... but it’s frequently used as a convenient excuse for things they label "sublime," claiming such truths can only be "experienced" rather than spoken.
Anything experienced can be conveyed—provided the messenger possesses the capacity to express it. There is a certain beauty here, from a subjective standpoint, in these shared experiences... It isn't some illusory discount when someone successfully transmits their reality; it’s merely a "template" for those who lack either the experience or the ability to articulate it.

If you personally feel that a "messenger had sufficient ability to express THAT," then the only logical conclusion is that you yourself are enlightened.
If you aren't, then unfortunately, THAT remains nothing more than a mere hint.

Kenneth Peterson5 said:Does placidharbor7 ever feel like all this word salad and jumping from nothing to absolutely nothing just leaves him feeling lonely?

Once you're truly Awake, there aren't any qualities or labels left—nothing except for whatever you choose to project onto him, The Seeker of Truth.

Brian Foster3 said:I'm putting it out there constantly, it's just that you're too blind to see it—you aren't looking at reality, you're just staring at your own selfish desires.

placidharbor7 is searching for the Truth behind those awakened role models of yours, not your own truth. Did you honestly think a Master would be so clueless about the human soul?
Let's bring them out into the light along with those self-proclaimed sons of the Kabbalah—let's see who they really are and listen to all that nonsense they spout!

@Brian Foster3,
The perceived contradiction between my first and last points suggests you missed the distinction—I was addressing the futility of "defining" things initially, whereas the conclusion concerns the subjective expression of one's own experience through language—think semantic-syntagmatic relationships in any medium, be it verbal, visual, or auditory...
Peppers and cabbage grow for "nothing." Give me one sufficiently compelling reason why life proceeds—a reason that would qualify as a valid justification for existence? There isn't one. It happens for "nothing" and without inherent meaning; because if there were meaning, then there wouldn't be any meaning—if you follow my logic. That is my subjective view, however, and since it seems you haven't grasped my point, further debate is pointless... it’s simply a drain on both our time and energy.

placidharbor7 said:Once you're truly Awake, there aren't any qualities or labels left—nothing except for whatever you choose to project onto him, The Seeker of Truth.

If that’s how placidharbor7 is playing it, then he isn't actually AWAKENED.
I mean, seriously—it’s just another case of throwing pearls before swine (and yeah, I'm talking about Kenneth Peterson5 here, just so no sensitive little souls out there feel targeted). It is what it is.

Kenneth Peterson5 said:That's exactly why an awakened person just stays quiet about it.

By the nature of "so-called awakening," yeah, they should be.

Kenneth Peterson5 isn't made of flesh and bone.

🤣😍

placidharbor7 said:placidharbor7 is searching for the Truth behind those awakened role models of yours, not your own truth. Did you honestly think a Master would be so clueless about the human soul?
Let's bring them out into the light along with those self-proclaimed sons of the Kabbalah—let's see who they really are and listen to all that nonsense they spout!

Seeker of Truth, just keep searching. Those who seek are the ones who find. 🤣

briskraven28 said:@Brian Foster3,
The perceived contradiction between my first and last points suggests you missed the distinction—I was addressing the futility of "defining" things initially, whereas the conclusion concerns the subjective expression of one's own experience through language—think semantic-syntagmatic relationships in any medium, be it verbal, visual, or auditory...
Peppers and cabbage grow for "nothing." Give me one sufficiently compelling reason why life proceeds—a reason that would qualify as a valid justification for existence? There isn't one. It happens for "nothing" and without inherent meaning; because if there were meaning, then there wouldn't be any meaning—if you follow my logic. That is my subjective view, however, and since it seems you haven't grasped my point, further debate is pointless... it’s simply a drain on both our time and energy.

Girl, you clearly have it all figured out! Don't waste your precious time on those little con artists and Kabbalah enthusiasts, unless, of course, you're planning on becoming a Master Teacher yourself.👍

Kenneth Peterson5 said:If that’s how placidharbor7 is playing it, then he isn't actually AWAKENED.
I mean, seriously—it’s just another case of throwing pearls before swine (and yeah, I'm talking about Kenneth Peterson5 here, just so no sensitive little souls out there feel targeted). It is what it is.

But honestly? Neither the pigs nor the pearls even matter when you consider the absolute impossibility of someone who isn't awake being able to recognize someone who IS.

briskraven28 said:🤣😍

Uh. And here I was, thinking we were actually having a serious conversation. 😲😁

@Brian Foster3, you've got the saying wrong—it's not "seek and you shall find," it's more like "ask too many questions and you're gonna get it."

(like:
-Dad, can I go out tonight?
-Not a chance, kid; ask too many questions and you'll regret it.)

Hope that clears things up for ya. 🙂

Brian Foster3 said:Seeker of Truth, just keep searching. Those who seek are the ones who find. 🤣

There is no such thing as "Truth"—it's all just noise.

"Because if there were an absolute Truth, then nothing would actually have any meaning," if you catch what placidharbor7 is trying to get at here. 🙄

placidharbor7 said:But honestly? Neither the pigs nor the pearls even matter when you consider the absolute impossibility of someone who isn't awake being able to recognize someone who IS.

Hey, placidharbor7,
Since you clearly see I'm struggling to keep up here, why don't you try typing a little slower?

Kenneth Peterson5 said:Hey, placidharbor7,
Since you clearly see I'm struggling to keep up here, why don't you try typing a little slower?

😍Don't worry, the boss loves you, Kenneth Peterson5!🙂👍

briskraven28 said:@Brian Foster3,
The perceived contradiction between my first and last points suggests you missed the distinction—I was addressing the futility of "defining" things initially, whereas the conclusion concerns the subjective expression of one's own experience through language—think semantic-syntagmatic relationships in any medium, be it verbal, visual, or auditory...
Peppers and cabbage grow for "nothing." Give me one sufficiently compelling reason why life proceeds—a reason that would qualify as a valid justification for existence? There isn't one. It happens for "nothing" and without inherent meaning; because if there were meaning, then there wouldn't be any meaning—if you follow my logic. That is my subjective view, however, and since it seems you haven't grasped my point, further debate is pointless... it’s simply a drain on both our time and energy.

Yeah, I finally get what you mean, but honestly, it still feels like a total contradiction to me because at the end of the day, even our subjective ways of speaking are built on nothing but definitions. Think about it—to define something is literally just to limit it, to squeeze it down into some finite shape and draw lines around it, which completely defeats the whole point!

Look, even technical definitions aren't set in stone—language is inherently subjective, period. It’s all just one big, fluid expression.
If someone tries to argue that spirituality can't actually be defined, all they're really doing is proving they don't have the slightest clue how to put it into words! It’s just one big, amorphous, shapeless mess of vague nonsense—completely foggy and totally undefined, like trying to grab a handful of steam.

Bell peppers and cabbage grow for absolutely nothing, so give me one single, halfway decent reason why life even happens—what could possibly be a good enough reason for existence? There isn't one, so it’s all for nothing and completely senseless, because if there actually were a purpose, then having a purpose wouldn't make sense anymore, if you catch my drift. But hey, that's just my subjective take on things, and from where I'm sitting, it looks like you totally missed my point, so there's really no use in us going back and forth about this since it's just a massive waste of both our time and energy.

🙂 It hasn’t been for nothing so far, if you ask me. And trust me, it sure as hell isn't going to be anytime soon either! 🙂

If there’s actually some grand Purpose out there, then I’m officially calling bullshit because that makes absolutely zero sense to me!

That’s exactly why you love playing the relativist game. It’s just easier for you to pretend nothing matters because you're absolutely terrified of what would happen if there actually was One Single Meaning—it would basically wipe out every little scrap of purpose you've tried to manufacture for yourself, both the ones you know about and the ones you haven't even realized yet. Honestly, it’s much less painful to just strip everything of its value and tear it all down so you can have enough empty space to build up your own little DIY meanings, right?

placidharbor7 said:There is no such thing as "Truth"—it's all just noise.

"Because if there were an absolute Truth, then nothing would actually have any meaning," if you catch what placidharbor7 is trying to get at here. 🙄

Yeah, I felt the exact same vibe coming from Quote: Vertigo m too, honestly. It’s just a perfect little example of the spiritual law of equality of form playing out right before our eyes. ☕

Brian Foster3 said:Yeah, I finally get what you mean, but honestly, it still feels like a total contradiction to me because at the end of the day, even our subjective ways of speaking are built on nothing but definitions. Think about it—to define something is literally just to limit it, to squeeze it down into some finite shape and draw lines around it, which completely defeats the whole point!

Look, even technical definitions aren't set in stone—language is inherently subjective, period. It’s all just one big, fluid expression.
If someone tries to argue that spirituality can't actually be defined, all they're really doing is proving they don't have the slightest clue how to put it into words! It’s just one big, amorphous, shapeless mess of vague nonsense—completely foggy and totally undefined, like trying to grab a handful of steam.

Bell peppers and cabbage grow for absolutely nothing, so give me one single, halfway decent reason why life even happens—what could possibly be a good enough reason for existence? There isn't one, so it’s all for nothing and completely senseless, because if there actually were a purpose, then having a purpose wouldn't make sense anymore, if you catch my drift. But hey, that's just my subjective take on things, and from where I'm sitting, it looks like you totally missed my point, so there's really no use in us going back and forth about this since it's just a massive waste of both our time and energy.

🙂 It hasn’t been for nothing so far, if you ask me. And trust me, it sure as hell isn't going to be anytime soon either! 🙂

If there’s actually some grand Purpose out there, then I’m officially calling bullshit because that makes absolutely zero sense to me!

That’s exactly why you love playing the relativist game. It’s just easier for you to pretend nothing matters because you're absolutely terrified of what would happen if there actually was One Single Meaning—it would basically wipe out every little scrap of purpose you've tried to manufacture for yourself, both the ones you know about and the ones you haven't even realized yet. Honestly, it’s much less painful to just strip everything of its value and tear it all down so you can have enough empty space to build up your own little DIY meanings, right?

Man, it is truly wild how limited you are—mentally, emotionally, even intuitively! What, are you trying to run the Kabbalah alongside Madonna?

Brian Foster3 said:Yeah, I felt the exact same vibe coming from Quote: Vertigo m too, honestly. It’s just a perfect little example of the spiritual law of equality of form playing out right before our eyes. ☕

But then again, there's so much inequality when it comes to how our minds and senses work. Just remember, wherever you are, that's where the Kabbalah is.

placidharbor7 said:Man, it is truly wild how limited you are—mentally, emotionally, even intuitively! What, are you trying to run the Kabbalah alongside Madonna?

And I haven't even gotten started yet. 🙂

Just you wait until I really let loose and lose all my filters. ☕

@Brian Foster3,
Is this whole "path to enlightenment" thing just an endless loop of trying to talk sense into people who have absolutely zero interest in listening?