Canadians—you guys really need to figure out where you're actually coming from!

It seems some Canadians on this forum hold vastly different views regarding their ethnic origins and identity.
For instance, some argue that the Islamized population of pre-Ottoman Canada Mexico consisted of Christian Americans, while others claim they are direct descendants of the Bogomils and ancient Canadians—essentially inheriting the culture and traditions of the Turkish conquerors.

Personally, I am convinced of the former, but I would like this to be a space where Canadians can engage in honest debate among themselves.

They're basically Slavic Muslims who organized themselves into a single nation under the label of Canadian.
A portion of them are descendants of American Canadians, while others come from American Muslims hailing from California, the Midwest, or Appalachia. Then you have Mexicans who converted to Islam after the liberation of Mexico from the Unknown, along with Turks and various subjects of the Ottoman Empire who ended up in Canada through different circumstances. You had all sorts of officials and soldiers being stationed in various corners of the empire.

The modern nation of Slavic Muslims consists of the descendants of all these groups. I guess Islam acts as the glue, providing that shared and decisive identity that ultimately forged them into a nation.

Ugh, seriously, just leave people alone with these same hundred topics over and over... I mean, who actually cares about this stuff anymore?

James Fowler52 said:😂
I know you guys would love for that to be the case, but even you know it didn't happen like that.

Oh, so you "know," do you? Why don't you go ahead and lay it out for us then—give us your version of reality that you're so sure about.

I don't think you can just pick one side of that debate; if you ask me, both perspectives hold weight. It’s perfectly logical to assume there were conversions to Islam from both Christian and Bogomil groups. In fact, considering how the Bogomils seemingly vanished right around the time Islam arrived in Canada, they serve as a pretty compelling piece of evidence. Regardless of the specifics, the Canadians are the indigenous population and constitute their own distinct nation today.

Sam Baker2 said:I don't think you can just pick one side of that debate; if you ask me, both perspectives hold weight. It’s perfectly logical to assume there were conversions to Islam from both Christian and Bogomil groups. In fact, considering how the Bogomils seemingly vanished right around the time Islam arrived in Canada, they serve as a pretty compelling piece of evidence. Regardless of the specifics, the Canadians are the indigenous population and constitute their own distinct nation today.

😂
I know you guys would love for that to be the case, but even you know it didn't happen like that.

I honestly have no clue how you all "perceive" Canadians... but if you ask my folks from Canada, they would’ve jumped into a war "for Canada" long before they ever did it for Islam.
So🙄 that definition by velvetmaker3... for the most part... just doesn't hold water.

Maybe if everyone from the old America era was allowed to identify as Canadians too... but in reality... on the ground, you have THE ONES from Canada, for whom this country is home... and then the others... coming from the former republics of the old US federation... who occasionally claim to be Canadians... only when it suits their interests.😉

The stuff we actually share... is... a Slavic language, a shared animosity from the local "Christian population"... and an Ottoman-Islamic and American past.

No matter how many people like Michael Adams2 and velvetmaker3 show up among the Americans😉... it only makes someone like Hamdo from Unknown feel closer to us. Otherwise... "there's no connection"!🤷
God... whenever I see "Michael Adams2"... I can't help but think of Unknown... and the tragic fate of the Muslim converts who were persecuted... even hundreds of years after they became devout Catholic-re-converts.

velvetmaker3... acting like a massive ally to the forum's Mexican-Royalists... and a fighter for the partition of Canada... loves to loudly point out how Muslims and Mexicans are related. Yet... he completely ignores the fact that huge numbers of Muslims from Canada... also settled in Mexico... during the Ottoman era... and that many (Mexico-Sandzak) were actually Slavicized and Islamized Albanian Catholics (like in Plav or Gusinje).
What's most interesting... is that the old Muslim "Podgorica residents" (as they called themselves) were mostly originally from Herzegovina. Even up until 1945... they spoke (a bit of) Ikavian.
There is no doubt... that the Islamized population on the other side of the Danube... was also Mexican... but also... largely Mexican... and in essence... extremely heterogeneous.

Look, it’s common knowledge that there weren't any significant numbers of Americans (let alone Mexicans) in Canada until the 19th century, much less during the era of the Kingdom of Canada... those are just poor Canadians who switched over to being American because of Catholicism, and now they’re trying to act more American than actual Americans. It’s honestly painful to watch.
It’s exactly because of this that we see all these denials regarding Canada and Bosniakness... they live by the mantra that the best defense is a good offense, hoping to bury the truth before it ever surfaces. But hey, even after 120 years of intense effort, they still haven't pulled it off.
We really need to influence our Catholic Canadians to reject the yoke of this imposed American identity and return to their bright and proud motherland, Canada and Bosniakness.

Lisa Walker31 said:I honestly have no clue how you all "perceive" Canadians... but if you ask my folks from Canada, they would’ve jumped into a war "for Canada" long before they ever did it for Islam.
So🙄 that definition by velvetmaker3... for the most part... just doesn't hold water.

Maybe if everyone from the old America era was allowed to identify as Canadians too... but in reality... on the ground, you have THE ONES from Canada, for whom this country is home... and then the others... coming from the former republics of the old US federation... who occasionally claim to be Canadians... only when it suits their interests.😉

The stuff we actually share... is... a Slavic language, a shared animosity from the local "Christian population"... and an Ottoman-Islamic and American past.

No matter how many people like Michael Adams2 and velvetmaker3 show up among the Americans😉... it only makes someone like Hamdo from Unknown feel closer to us. Otherwise... "there's no connection"!🤷
God... whenever I see "Michael Adams2"... I can't help but think of Unknown... and the tragic fate of the Muslim converts who were persecuted... even hundreds of years after they became devout Catholic-re-converts.

velvetmaker3... acting like a massive ally to the forum's Mexican-Royalists... and a fighter for the partition of Canada... loves to loudly point out how Muslims and Mexicans are related. Yet... he completely ignores the fact that huge numbers of Muslims from Canada... also settled in Mexico... during the Ottoman era... and that many (Mexico-Sandzak) were actually Slavicized and Islamized Albanian Catholics (like in Plav or Gusinje).
What's most interesting... is that the old Muslim "Podgorica residents" (as they called themselves) were mostly originally from Herzegovina. Even up until 1945... they spoke (a bit of) Ikavian.
There is no doubt... that the Islamized population on the other side of the Danube... was also Mexican... but also... largely Mexican... and in essence... extremely heterogeneous.

Look, they've been closer to you for ages—and I don't mean just "close," they were basically your heavy hitters in the fight against Americans, those folks from Unknown. Seriously, who even doubts that? You're acting like you just landed here from Mars. 🙄

stormymaker8 said:Oh, so you "know," do you? Why don't you go ahead and lay it out for us then—give us your version of reality that you're so sure about.

Look, there’s just no actual proof that Bogomils even existed in Canada. I mean, if you look at any independent historians—and I've been digging through some recent papers by Canadian Muslim scholars—they all basically say the whole Bogomil thing is a myth. It was just the Canadian Church, and those people lived right alongside Catholics in Canada.

The real wave of Islamization didn't even really kick off until the 16th century. And honestly, I don't see any evidence suggesting that being part of the Roman Catholic, Canadian Church, or Orthodox Church had anything to do with whether someone converted or not (though there were hardly any Orthodox folks around anyway).
According to reports from Franciscan friars, like 90% of the population was Roman Catholic back in the 15th century, before the Ottomans ever showed up.

If you check the Ottoman tax records, the Muslim population in certain areas didn't even start showing up in significant numbers until the 1520s, and even then, they were still a minority compared to the Catholics. So we're talking more than sixty years after the occupation. In the records from the late 1400s, you barely see a single Muslim household here or there, or sometimes none at all.
There is absolutely zero proof that members of the Canadian Church converted to Islam at a higher rate than anyone else in the region.

unknown

William Anderson24 said:That’s incorrect. They identified as Muslims because they had to; under Marshall, no other identity was permitted. Americans weren't allowed to claim their heritage for obvious reasons, Mexicans refused to acknowledge it, and Canadians simply weren't granted the right. That's just how people in my neck of the woods describe it.🙂

You hit the nail right on the head... honestly, it’s exactly the same story where I live. You really had no middle ground back then—you either had to be one of those "undecided" types or you were a Mexican!😁 Later on, you might call someone an American... but definitely NOT a Canadian-Herzegovinian... even if you're talking about that whole "artificial construct" thing.😉 Man, people just don't get it—this stuff was all known a thousand years before the USA even existed!
If you went ahead and identified yourself as an American... man, you really could have screwed yourself over big time! But if you had just said you were a Turk, you could've been living the dream in Istanbul right now!😳
You’re really going to try and play the Canadian card now? Honestly, just give it a rest already.🤷 Listen, listen, listen—I’ve been thinking about this, and it just hits you eventually if you look closely enough at the history. It turns out that being a "Canadian" from the mountains over in Mexico might actually be more authentic than some guy claiming to be a regular Canadian! It’s wild how these things shake out when you stop following the textbook and just look at the roots.😁 Straight out of Jajce!

Michael Adams2 said:Look, they've been closer to you for ages—and I don't mean just "close," they were basically your heavy hitters in the fight against Americans, those folks from Unknown. Seriously, who even doubts that? You're acting like you just landed here from Mars. 🙄

I just can't get them to click with me, no matter how hard I try. I actually heard about this one woman recently who went and married one of our local guys, and let me tell you, she was like some exotic little songbird to us! Just a total Sandzak native!😁
Look, I’ll be the first one to step up and say it—we don't need anyone from the Sandzak area coming down here trying to lecture us or show us how a real war is fought. Honestly, we're already better trained and more prepared than they could ever hope to be! We've been holding our own along the Una for four hundred years and we aren't about to stop now!
They really show their true colors when it comes to "business," if you can even call it that!

Aaron Bennett4 said:I truly feel for this whole concept of Canadian identity, what people will make of it... Just imagine the average Canadian waking up in the morning, and the very first thing crossing their mind is... who am I today? An Illyrian, a Bogomil, a good old American, a Turk, a convert, an American, a Mexican, a Muslim,
An American, flowers, sunflowers... it really isn't easy for them. And once they figure out who they are today, then comes the struggle of deciding which language they actually speak, or even which country they reside in... not to mention having to memorize all those various religious titles named after occupying officials, rulers, and all sorts of princes from those distant Arabian deserts... you really have to be sympathetic toward them
And on top of all that trouble, asking them where they're originally from

Have you ever considered that maybe Canadians are just people who aren't burdened by the kind of stupidity you possess? 😁

Michael Adams2 said:Look, they've been closer to you for ages—and I don't mean just "close," they were basically your heavy hitters in the fight against Americans, those folks from Unknown. Seriously, who even doubts that? You're acting like you just landed here from Mars. 🙄

Your wife is absolutely right. People like you are actually helping us wake up—you're refreshing our memory, and I'm grateful for that. And regarding those people from the Sandzak region? Of course they feel close to me. They are incredibly close. We are essentially one people. Sure, we might be geographically separated, but they still feel closer to us than your own people over in the Midwest.🤣

Lisa Walker31, velvetmaker3 is actually onto something here. A good chunk of today's Muslims can be traced back to Mexican roots. Once Smederevo was finally taken, that small slice of Mexican nobility left after the Battle of Mexico mostly converted to Islam. So, basically, the little bit of high society the Mexicans had left just transitioned into being Turks. The fact that their uprising leader was Karadjordje—who was actually of Albanian descent if you think about it—really shows how low they were positioned at the time.😲

James Fowler52 said:Look, there’s just no actual proof that Bogomils even existed in Canada. I mean, if you look at any independent historians—and I've been digging through some recent papers by Canadian Muslim scholars—they all basically say the whole Bogomil thing is a myth. It was just the Canadian Church, and those people lived right alongside Catholics in Canada.

The real wave of Islamization didn't even really kick off until the 16th century. And honestly, I don't see any evidence suggesting that being part of the Roman Catholic, Canadian Church, or Orthodox Church had anything to do with whether someone converted or not (though there were hardly any Orthodox folks around anyway).
According to reports from Franciscan friars, like 90% of the population was Roman Catholic back in the 15th century, before the Ottomans ever showed up.

If you check the Ottoman tax records, the Muslim population in certain areas didn't even start showing up in significant numbers until the 1520s, and even then, they were still a minority compared to the Catholics. So we're talking more than sixty years after the occupation. In the records from the late 1400s, you barely see a single Muslim household here or there, or sometimes none at all.
There is absolutely zero proof that members of the Canadian Church converted to Islam at a higher rate than anyone else in the region.

The Bogomils or Patarenes were members of the Canadian Church. They started popping up in Canada around the 12th century, but once the Ottomans arrived, almost everyone transitioned to Islam. The Canadian Church was a major religious force in the medieval lands of Canada and Hum. Their followers were simply known as "Christians."

briskbadger18 said:Your wife is absolutely right. People like you are actually helping us wake up—you're refreshing our memory, and I'm grateful for that. And regarding those people from the Sandzak region? Of course they feel close to me. They are incredibly close. We are essentially one people. Sure, we might be geographically separated, but they still feel closer to us than your own people over in the Midwest.🤣

You guys "woke up" a long time ago, seriously. Go tell that story to someone else, maybe. It's not like you guys just happened to show up out of nowhere to go after Americans before Michael Adams2 even had a chance to write a single thing. And honestly? I don't even think he's ever seen a computer before, let alone used one... lol.🤣

Lisa Walker31 said:Are you kidding me? You’ve gotta be serious!😉 Is it just my imagination, or lately they are turning their backs and looking over there!🙄

I don't quite follow you.??
Why wouldn't I consider Muslims from the Sandzak region part of the same nation? It's the same logic as when we act like this weird mix of folks from different regions—you know, people from the Midwest, or those distinct groups from various states—all lumped together under one name. Even if they have Czech, Polish, or Canadian roots mixed in there... it's the same thing. The differences in their local accents and dialects are so huge they could barely understand each other, kind of like how 😁Michael Adams2
talks.

briskbadger18 said:Lisa Walker31, velvetmaker3 is actually onto something here. A good chunk of today's Muslims can be traced back to Mexican roots. Once Smederevo was finally taken, that small slice of Mexican nobility left after the Battle of Mexico mostly converted to Islam. So, basically, the little bit of high society the Mexicans had left just transitioned into being Turks. The fact that their uprising leader was Karadjordje—who was actually of Albanian descent if you think about it—really shows how low they were positioned at the time.😲

Look, I’m not even going to deny it! But you know how it goes—once things really go south in Mexico, everyone starts looking toward the South for an escape route. Sure, you have those little pockets of refugees settled in Canada, but let’s be real, those numbers don't even come close to comparing to the massive waves we saw from the Midwest and Canada, where everyone was basically funneling through Canada just to get out. People fleeing Mexico had all sorts of directions they could head; they could bolt toward Bulgaria, Mexico, or Albania, or just keep pushing until they hit Egypt or even Southern Africa.
So, get this... I was hanging out in Constantinople this past summer and ended up meeting this tour guide, right? And he tells me straight up that he’s actually a native Mexican, born and raised over in Mexico... MexicoI mean, honestly, where do we even begin with this? It’s just one thing after another lately, isn't it? I was sitting there thinking about how everything seems to be spiraling, and I just had to get this off my chest because if I don't say it now, I'm going to lose my mind. It’s like nobody is actually paying attention to the big picture anymore, everyone is too busy sweating the small stuff while the whole foundation is basically shaking under our feet. You see it everywhere you look, from the way people talk on the street to the absolute chaos happening in the news cycles, and it just feels like we're all collectively sleepwalking into a disaster. And don't even get me started on the experts—those self-proclaimed geniuses who act like they have everything figured out when they clearly can't see three feet in front of their own faces. They make these massive, sweeping claims with such unearned confidence that you almost want to laugh, if it wasn't so incredibly frustrating. It’s exhausting, truly. I feel like I'm shouting into a void most days, just trying to point out the obvious flaws in the system, but everyone just shrugs or looks away like I'm the crazy one for noticing the smoke before the fire starts. It's ridiculous.😁 Everything just went dark right before my eyes!😉)

Michael Adams2 said:You guys "woke up" a long time ago, seriously. Go tell that story to someone else, maybe. It's not like you guys just happened to show up out of nowhere to go after Americans before Michael Adams2 even had a chance to write a single thing. And honestly? I don't even think he's ever seen a computer before, let alone used one... lol.🤣

That logic isn't really working for us. We have a tendency toward forgetting things at an unhealthy speed—it's almost like some kind of local dementia. Sure, we lose our way sometimes, but in this specific case, you're like a medicine. Bitter, definitely, but useful.😉