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What are the benefits of being religious?

Started by placidranger · · 👁 5 views · 112 replies

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Participants placidrangerrowdyhawk99Sandra Wilson68nimbleharbor21swiftcobra15fadedbison17Edward Flores4Chris Peterson53wiredmaker18bluefoxNancy Adams79restlessfalcon5hiddenhawk3Laura MurphyJoseph Sanchez90restlessridge36mistyfox812Gerald Perez5Lawrence Robinson5rustymaker5analogcrane7Morgan Hernandez5Noah Garcia4
placidranger placidranger RegularOP
339 messages
joined Sep 2004
#1 ·
I sometimes wonder why this concept of a creator—this all-powerful entity—remains so incredibly stubborn against the passage of time. It persists everywhere, despite massive cultural divides and the fact that ancient civilizations had virtually zero contact with one another.
The most obvious answer that keeps coming to mind is psychological utility. People who believe seem to experience certain mental benefits, which serves as their motivation to pass the idea down—or if you prefer, to spread the meme—to their children and anyone else unacquainted with it.
I’ll skip the whole "truth in numbers" argument—the notion that if enough people believe it, it must be true. First, it's logically flawed. Second, I’m an atheist. Third, whether something actually exists is irrelevant to my point; what matters is the practical advantage believers hold over atheists in their day-to-day lives.

In your view, what specific advantages does a belief system—say, Catholicism, Buddhism, or Islam—actually provide? Is life simply easier when you're a believer?
rowdyhawk99 rowdyhawk99 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jan 2008
#2 ·
Is it actually easier to just go through life without thinking for yourself? Honestly, I've been wondering about that lately. On another note, I had no idea Buddhism had any connection to believing in God.
Sandra Wilson68 Sandra Wilson68 Active Member
75 messages
joined Mar 2004
#3 ·
Aphex,

What do you guys think a belief system—like Catholicism (if that's your thing), Buddhism, or Islam—actually provides? Is life just easier when you believe in something?

It’s definitely not "easier" to live with faith when you look at all the religious wars and terrorism throughout history. Just look at India and Pakistan—same people, same language, totally different faiths, Hinduism vs. Islam. We're talking eleven million dead since they split into two separate countries back in 1947 because of those religious divides.

Sure, if you argue that believers find comfort in their suffering *because* of their faith, then maybe they handle the pain better than someone without it.

But honestly, if these religions didn't exist, none of this religious violence would happen in the first place. When you add it all up, life is way easier, more peaceful, and safer without religion. At the end of the day, every religion is just faith and nothing more.
nimbleharbor21 nimbleharbor21 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Feb 2008
#4 ·
It’s undeniably easier to live as a believer because you actually have a sense of purpose regarding life, death, and suffering...
Just last week, I had the chance to sit with someone very dear to me who was facing death in intense agony. This person was an atheist through and through, having spent their entire life pushing back against faith and organized religion...
And honestly, watching them die was just miserable...it was horrific. It was a life reduced to nothing more than fulfilling basic survival needs, and now what? Now there's just death, where nothing follows and nobody is waiting—just the physical body fading away...
It was terrifying. I don't even have the words to describe the haunting sight of an atheist confronting death when everything looks so utterly meaningless...
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 Regular
305 messages
joined Dec 2002
#5 ·
nimbleharbor21 said:It’s undeniably easier to live as a believer because you actually have a sense of purpose regarding life, death, and suffering...
Just last week, I had the chance to sit with someone very dear to me who was facing death in intense agony. This person was an atheist through and through, having spent their entire life pushing back against faith and organized religion...
And honestly, watching them die was just miserable...it was horrific. It was a life reduced to nothing more than fulfilling basic survival needs, and now what? Now there's just death, where nothing follows and nobody is waiting—just the physical body fading away...
It was terrifying. I don't even have the words to describe the haunting sight of an atheist confronting death when everything looks so utterly meaningless...

I don't have the words to describe this "devastating scene" either—the sheer tragedy of a believer dying while
feeling certain they are heading straight into eternal torment. 😈
fadedbison17 fadedbison17 Active Member
74 messages
joined Jan 2008
#6 ·
placidranger said:I sometimes wonder why this concept of a creator—this all-powerful entity—remains so incredibly stubborn against the passage of time. It persists everywhere, despite massive cultural divides and the fact that ancient civilizations had virtually zero contact with one another.
The most obvious answer that keeps coming to mind is psychological utility. People who believe seem to experience certain mental benefits, which serves as their motivation to pass the idea down—or if you prefer, to spread the meme—to their children and anyone else unacquainted with it.
I’ll skip the whole "truth in numbers" argument—the notion that if enough people believe it, it must be true. First, it's logically flawed. Second, I’m an atheist. Third, whether something actually exists is irrelevant to my point; what matters is the practical advantage believers hold over atheists in their day-to-day lives.

In your view, what specific advantages does a belief system—say, Catholicism, Buddhism, or Islam—actually provide? Is life simply easier when you're a believer?

Believers have this weird edge where they pretend they’ve got an answer for basically everything. While an atheist usually just shrugs and says "I don't know"—which actually leaves room to learn stuff—believers don't feel the need to do that... Not sure I'd call that a real advantage...

To keep that illusion going—that he’s actually in control—a believer basically has to... well, you know how it goes... knows... An atheist—since they’re lacking that "extra" insight you get from being a believer—just ends up making stuff up to fill the gaps... finding whatever facts or justifications they can pull out of thin air. It all just turns into excuses, like: "Oh, a believer..." knows... What happens after you kick the bucket—I mean, according to Him... knows... How to live... basically, a believer stays connected to... Wait, what was that? You're just dropping one word? I'm lost... anyway, what's up? Just sheer force—which basically means he can just ignore reality if he feels like it... etc.

I feel like needing faith is pretty much the same as needing philosophy—it’s just that human drive to find a solid system of morals and values to live by while navigating society...
Why does faith stay so bulletproof against the test of time? Honestly—it’s because people who believe just... don't let themselves think too hard about it. It's way easier to just grab a pre-packaged solution, even if it’s thousands of years old and totally out of touch with how things actually work today. Instead of leveling up their lives to fit the modern world, they end up dragging their entire lifestyle backward just to make sure it fits the mold of their religion... turns out that's a lot less work.

What are the perks of being a believer compared to an atheist? A more developed imagination—though I wouldn't exactly call that a "perk" when it comes to actually improving your quality of life...
nimbleharbor21 nimbleharbor21 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Feb 2008
#7 ·
fadedbison17 says:
In order for a believer to maintain the illusion that they know [/I] something an atheist doesn't (since being an unbeliever supposedly denies them access to "higher" knowledge), they just manufacture facts and justifications out of thin air. They come up with excuses like: the believer knows what happens after death (so therefore they know how to live their life), or that the believer is in touch with a higher power (meaning they don't have to deal with reality), and so on...

... they don't know, they just believe.

The typical atheist cliché—that believers blindly swallow dogma without ever using their brains—is really just a convenient way for the skeptic to justify their own disbelief: I can think for myself, right?
But a believer who builds their faith on a constant pursuit of Truth finds their perspective rooted in something indestructible.
As a believer, my first step is always to reason through it, and then I reach an understanding that aligns with the teachings of the Church.
nimbleharbor21 nimbleharbor21 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Feb 2008
#8 ·
fadedbison17 said:Believers have this weird edge where they pretend they’ve got an answer for basically everything. While an atheist usually just shrugs and says "I don't know"—which actually leaves room to learn stuff—believers don't feel the need to do that... Not sure I'd call that a real advantage...

To keep that illusion going—that he’s actually in control—a believer basically has to... well, you know how it goes... knows... An atheist—since they’re lacking that "extra" insight you get from being a believer—just ends up making stuff up to fill the gaps... finding whatever facts or justifications they can pull out of thin air. It all just turns into excuses, like: "Oh, a believer..." knows... What happens after you kick the bucket—I mean, according to Him... knows... How to live... basically, a believer stays connected to... Wait, what was that? You're just dropping one word? I'm lost... anyway, what's up? Just sheer force—which basically means he can just ignore reality if he feels like it... etc.

I feel like needing faith is pretty much the same as needing philosophy—it’s just that human drive to find a solid system of morals and values to live by while navigating society...
Why does faith stay so bulletproof against the test of time? Honestly—it’s because people who believe just... don't let themselves think too hard about it. It's way easier to just grab a pre-packaged solution, even if it’s thousands of years old and totally out of touch with how things actually work today. Instead of leveling up their lives to fit the modern world, they end up dragging their entire lifestyle backward just to make sure it fits the mold of their religion... turns out that's a lot less work.

What are the perks of being a believer compared to an atheist? A more developed imagination—though I wouldn't exactly call that a "perk" when it comes to actually improving your quality of life...

Man, what kind of post is this??? What does imagination have to do with anything? Grab an elementary school textbook, learn some basic tenets of American Christianity, and then maybe you can act like a mature adult when discussing them.
Edward Flores4 Edward Flores4 Regular
428 messages
joined Mar 2008
#9 ·
Look, I’m not denying that faith in Bog can offer some serious psychological perks to someone who truly believes—it really can. But just because it provides a mental cushion doesn't mean it offers any other kind of tangible benefit. At best, it just makes those incredibly heavy, soul-crushing situations a little easier to stomach.

A perfect example comes to mind—there was this guy in the States who was convicted of murder (I think he actually got life) and sat there for years. Once DNA testing finally became a standard scientific tool, his lawyers pushed for a new forensic analysis, knowing deep down he was innocent. Since they had preserved the samples, it turned out he really hadn't done it at all. After spending decades behind bars for a crime he didn't commit, he was finally set free. When he walked out, he sat down for a newspaper interview and basically said, "I thank Bog, I knew He wouldn't let this happen..." It’s pretty ironic, isn't it? Science is what actually pulled him out of that cell, yet he gives all the credit to Bog. One scientist actually commented on the whole thing, saying that if he were in that man's shoes, he probably would have ended it all rather than waiting around for science to eventually save him. I suppose that specific brand of faith is exactly what gave him the strength to endure such a nightmare.

In his case, science essentially stepped in to back up Bog, so maybe his faith paid off in a way. But for so many others, that faith never yields a result, even when they spend their entire lives believing.

By the way, there’s this fantastic convention that’s been running for two years now, and you can actually watch the full program online—it's packed with lectures from some really eminent scientists. The whole event focuses on the role of faith within society. There are some genuinely diverse and fascinating perspectives in there, and honestly, some of the scientists are more narrow-minded than the most hardcore believers. I highly recommend checking out both years:

year one
http://thesciencenetwork.org/BeyondBelief/watch/

year two
http://thesciencenetwork.org/BeyondBelief2/watch/
fadedbison17 fadedbison17 Active Member
74 messages
joined Jan 2008
#10 ·
nimbleharbor21 said:
fadedbison17 says:
In order for a believer to maintain the illusion that they know [/I] something an atheist doesn't (since being an unbeliever supposedly denies them access to "higher" knowledge), they just manufacture facts and justifications out of thin air. They come up with excuses like: the believer knows what happens after death (so therefore they know how to live their life), or that the believer is in touch with a higher power (meaning they don't have to deal with reality), and so on...

... they don't know, they just believe.

The typical atheist cliché—that believers blindly swallow dogma without ever using their brains—is really just a convenient way for the skeptic to justify their own disbelief: I can think for myself, right?
But a believer who builds their faith on a constant pursuit of Truth finds their perspective rooted in something indestructible.
As a believer, my first step is always to reason through it, and then I reach an understanding that aligns with the teachings of the Church.

You're assuming I have a problem with believers, but you couldn't be more wrong. You’re "clichéing" me by reading my post and deciding I'm someone I'm not.

Just to be clear, I'm an atheist. It's never my goal to insult believers—honestly, I know several people who are religious that I really respect and look up to.

Now that we've cleared that up, let's get back to the actual point. Answer the prompt—what do you think the answers are? Give me some reasons. Thanks. 😉

nimbleharbor21 said:Man, what kind of post is this??? What does imagination have to do with anything? Grab an elementary school textbook, learn some basic tenets of American Christianity, and then maybe you can act like a mature adult when discussing them.

Geez, what a woman... If your post is supposed to be an act of maturity, I'll pass. And for the record, I've already studied Catholic doctrine pretty deeply. Thanks for the advice, though.
Chris Peterson53 Chris Peterson53 Active Member
114 messages
joined Dec 2010
#11 ·
swiftcobra15 said:I don't have the words to describe this "devastating scene" either—the sheer tragedy of a believer dying while
feeling certain they are heading straight into eternal torment. 😈

You couldn't be more wrong!
As long as a person truly repents—and I mean even the absolute worst criminals—there is always hope in the mercy of Bog!
Chris Peterson53 Chris Peterson53 Active Member
114 messages
joined Dec 2010
#12 ·
fadedbison17 said:Believers have this weird edge where they pretend they’ve got an answer for basically everything. While an atheist usually just shrugs and says "I don't know"—which actually leaves room to learn stuff—believers don't feel the need to do that... Not sure I'd call that a real advantage...

To keep that illusion going—that he’s actually in control—a believer basically has to... well, you know how it goes... knows... An atheist—since they’re lacking that "extra" insight you get from being a believer—just ends up making stuff up to fill the gaps... finding whatever facts or justifications they can pull out of thin air. It all just turns into excuses, like: "Oh, a believer..." knows... What happens after you kick the bucket—I mean, according to Him... knows... How to live... basically, a believer stays connected to... Wait, what was that? You're just dropping one word? I'm lost... anyway, what's up? Just sheer force—which basically means he can just ignore reality if he feels like it... etc.

I feel like needing faith is pretty much the same as needing philosophy—it’s just that human drive to find a solid system of morals and values to live by while navigating society...
Why does faith stay so bulletproof against the test of time? Honestly—it’s because people who believe just... don't let themselves think too hard about it. It's way easier to just grab a pre-packaged solution, even if it’s thousands of years old and totally out of touch with how things actually work today. Instead of leveling up their lives to fit the modern world, they end up dragging their entire lifestyle backward just to make sure it fits the mold of their religion... turns out that's a lot less work.

What are the perks of being a believer compared to an atheist? A more developed imagination—though I wouldn't exactly call that a "perk" when it comes to actually improving your quality of life...

It’s obvious you have some pretty warped view of faith!
Personally, I am a believer, but I don't belong to any organized religion!
I think and live by a system of moral principles quite clearly (as far as I'm able).
Where on earth did you get the idea that believers don't think?
We don't think in your way, but we certainly think (and speak) about everything.
As for being in touch with a higher power—for believers, that isn't some eccentricity; it's a fact.
And as for having social privileges, those only exist if you follow the deceptions of organized religions. Faith actually contributes to the quality of life in ways you obviously won't grasp easily. And contrary to your claim, faith improves us as human beings!
wiredmaker18 wiredmaker18 Member
41 messages
joined Jan 2008
#13 ·
I wouldn't call them benefits. It’s more like taking the path of least resistance and tricking yourself into believing there's some almighty force watching over everything from out of nowhere. It basically provides a built-in consolation prize for our mortality, killing off one of humanity's oldest terrors: the fear of death. If you believe hard enough that Heaven is waiting for you—provided you follow the exact, rigid rules laid out by your belief system—everything is settled. There's no room for error, and even if you mess up, there's always confession. Just classic religious demagoguery... they essentially invented a reset button for every mistake you make. Seriously. And get this: if you spent your whole life doing unspeakable things but "sincerely" repent on your deathbed (whatever that even means in this context), it's all wiped clean. Like an eraser. You die in white instead of black. I guess faith is the perfect sanctuary for people who lack the guts or the confidence to actually question the system, let alone shake its foundations and flip the whole thing on its head...
Regarding the idea that faith is everywhere, it’s pretty simple: humans are fundamentally the same regardless of where they are, and we struggle with the same existential questions. So, it stands to reason that our ways of explaining the inexplicable would be similar. Blindly following a doctrine is the easy way out. On the other hand, questioning why we believe what we do—and understanding the cause-and-effect links between belief and cultural, social, psychological, or political shifts—is what keeps your mind sharp and aware of how society actually functions. There's also the matter of perspective. Analyzing how beliefs manipulate the masses gives you the necessary distance to view events within the broader context of geopolitics and current affairs. Without that detachment, it's nearly impossible to stay unbiased and think for yourself. There’s a neat analogy in fractal geometry where a tiny fragment of rock shares the same structure as the entire mountain. It’s easy to conclude that the dynamics playing out among three friends grabbing coffee are fundamentally the same as those governing a city, a nation, or humanity itself. They're all driven by people, and people are driven by the same basic motives, just scaled up and made much more complex. It’s not always that clean-cut, but that's the core of it...
Chris Peterson53 Chris Peterson53 Active Member
114 messages
joined Dec 2010
#14 ·
wiredmaker18 said:I wouldn't call them benefits. It’s more like taking the path of least resistance and tricking yourself into believing there's some almighty force watching over everything from out of nowhere. It basically provides a built-in consolation prize for our mortality, killing off one of humanity's oldest terrors: the fear of death. If you believe hard enough that Heaven is waiting for you—provided you follow the exact, rigid rules laid out by your belief system—everything is settled. There's no room for error, and even if you mess up, there's always confession. Just classic religious demagoguery... they essentially invented a reset button for every mistake you make. Seriously. And get this: if you spent your whole life doing unspeakable things but "sincerely" repent on your deathbed (whatever that even means in this context), it's all wiped clean. Like an eraser. You die in white instead of black. I guess faith is the perfect sanctuary for people who lack the guts or the confidence to actually question the system, let alone shake its foundations and flip the whole thing on its head...
Regarding the idea that faith is everywhere, it’s pretty simple: humans are fundamentally the same regardless of where they are, and we struggle with the same existential questions. So, it stands to reason that our ways of explaining the inexplicable would be similar. Blindly following a doctrine is the easy way out. On the other hand, questioning why we believe what we do—and understanding the cause-and-effect links between belief and cultural, social, psychological, or political shifts—is what keeps your mind sharp and aware of how society actually functions. There's also the matter of perspective. Analyzing how beliefs manipulate the masses gives you the necessary distance to view events within the broader context of geopolitics and current affairs. Without that detachment, it's nearly impossible to stay unbiased and think for yourself. There’s a neat analogy in fractal geometry where a tiny fragment of rock shares the same structure as the entire mountain. It’s easy to conclude that the dynamics playing out among three friends grabbing coffee are fundamentally the same as those governing a city, a nation, or humanity itself. They're all driven by people, and people are driven by the same basic motives, just scaled up and made much more complex. It’s not always that clean-cut, but that's the core of it...

Engaging in a debate with someone who merely uses faith as a template based solely on their own personal antagonism is, frankly, pointless. On top of that, you go ahead and label believers as cowards and weaklings—basically idiots who neither think nor act.
And you atheists—do you even realize what you're doing?
Is your premise actually correct?

May you be forgiven, because you truly have no idea what you're talking about.
You fail to see the difference between faith and the church!
bluefox bluefox Newcomer
4 messages
joined Feb 2008
#15 ·
So, what's the actual difference here.....???
Nancy Adams79 Nancy Adams79 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Jun 2009
#16 ·
placidranger said:I sometimes wonder why this concept of a creator—this all-powerful entity—remains so incredibly stubborn against the passage of time. It persists everywhere, despite massive cultural divides and the fact that ancient civilizations had virtually zero contact with one another.
The most obvious answer that keeps coming to mind is psychological utility. People who believe seem to experience certain mental benefits, which serves as their motivation to pass the idea down—or if you prefer, to spread the meme—to their children and anyone else unacquainted with it.
I’ll skip the whole "truth in numbers" argument—the notion that if enough people believe it, it must be true. First, it's logically flawed. Second, I’m an atheist. Third, whether something actually exists is irrelevant to my point; what matters is the practical advantage believers hold over atheists in their day-to-day lives.

In your view, what specific advantages does a belief system—say, Catholicism, Buddhism, or Islam—actually provide? Is life simply easier when you're a believer?

You hit the nail on the head.
I used to think it was just subconscious, but more and more religious people tell me exactly that—they believe simply because it's easier, and they don't even bother looking at how messy things are from a rational perspective.
I'm an extreme optimist, so I guess I don't need that crutch. 🙂🙂
bluefox bluefox Newcomer
4 messages
joined Feb 2008
#17 ·
Faith... in oneself... Yeah, right. It's just this pale illusion—this product of overactive imagination and pure, unadulterated decadence. It's basically a scam... in whatever form you want to call it.
The way this tumor spreads—this whole "scam"—is through anyone trying to justify their own shaky ground using these little fantasies... Like, "Just believe and you'll die happy," or some other nonsense. Total scam.

Ugh, I'm totally out of words here... gotta go grab a beer.
restlessfalcon5 restlessfalcon5 Member
21 messages
joined Dec 2007
#18 ·
I honestly don't get why faith is constantly dismissed as primitive or treated like an exclusive club for believers 😕

Everyone possesses their own subjectivity through which they interpret the world. I’d argue this internal lens evolved specifically to help us endure psychological hardship. Looking at it from an evolutionary standpoint, the concept of faith had to serve a purpose for us to develop it in the first place. It’s just tragic that certain people decided to take those raw feelings—that sense of soul or subjectivity—and force them into rigid structures, imposing fabricated mythologies on everyone else. In reality, we all construct our own belief systems and personal mythologies starting in childhood. Even Jung noted that every individual carries their own unique mythology...
bluefox bluefox Newcomer
4 messages
joined Feb 2008
#19 ·
Honestly, this whole "primitivism" thing is just... well, it's a trip. The people pushing it? They’re actually pretty damn good at what they do—super savvy about riding whatever the latest trend happens to be... so naturally, they cooked up this whole "subversive primitivism" angle. It’s clever, I'll give them that. Just when you think you've got a handle on things, boom—this ABS braking system of a concept slams into every single crack and crevice of society... totally catches you off guard... SJEK..
fadedbison17 fadedbison17 Active Member
74 messages
joined Jan 2008
#20 ·
Chris Peterson53 said:It’s obvious you have some pretty warped view of faith!
Personally, I am a believer, but I don't belong to any organized religion!
I think and live by a system of moral principles quite clearly (as far as I'm able).
Where on earth did you get the idea that believers don't think?
We don't think in your way, but we certainly think (and speak) about everything.
As for being in touch with a higher power—for believers, that isn't some eccentricity; it's a fact.
And as for having social privileges, those only exist if you follow the deceptions of organized religions. Faith actually contributes to the quality of life in ways you obviously won't grasp easily. And contrary to your claim, faith improves us as human beings!

Like I already said, those were just my answers to the questions in this thread, not an attack on believers (go back and read my last post).

Now, let's hear your explanation on how faith improves quality of life and all your other takes on the topic.

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