Physical Desires vs. Human Dignity and Unfulfilled Dreams...

Lawrence Robinson5 said:The only thing I really can't wrap my head around is this whole idea that death has somehow become a tragedy. It hasn't. Honestly, life isn't either. They’re just two sides of the exact same coin, and if we decide to label one side as tragic, we end up dragging the other down with it too.

No matter how someone passes away, from an objective standpoint, nobody is truly a victim—because killers don't stumble upon their "victims" by accident. If a person doesn't perceive themselves as a victim, they never actually become one. That’s just a subjective truth that eventually hardens into a subjective reality. There’s this old wisdom from India that says if you are perfect in *ahimsa* (non-violence), no enemy can even begin to form against you. We don't sit around and think about that enough, but the fact is, like attracts like: violence breeds more violence, while peace fosters more peace... our version of that is basically "you reap what you sow."

A hero—a true legend—is defined by how they lived their entire life, which includes how they face the end. Someone who dies in a car wreck isn't a hero; firefighters aren't inherently heroes just because of their job. A real hero knows exactly what they are doing, even if nobody else sees it. They have mastery over themselves and their own existence, meeting death with a sense of awareness and peace, knowing they lived exactly the kind of life they intended to live.

So, to me, it feels totally pointless to label this girl as either a hero or a victim. She met her end just as she was, for reasons that remain entirely unknown to us... but I know we live in an era where we've collectively decided to cast death as some kind of monster. It isn't a monster; we only act like it is because we don't truly understand it.
Violence, though, is a different story altogether. We spend all our time condemning the violence others inflict on each other, yet we practice it ourselves every single day in one form or another... if you look at it strictly, any act that forces someone else to bend their will to yours is a form of violence, and there are endless ways to do that. Every time we shrug our shoulders at violence, deciding it's not a big deal, we're actually fueling it. There are infinite ways that happens too... when a bunch of small things pile up, that power multiplies a hundredfold—and yeah, that applies to the negative stuff just as much.

Things like this should serve as a wake-up call for us to reflect on where we ourselves are committing or enabling violence, so we can start consciously stripping it away instead of just making assumptions about someone else's life that we know nothing about. I honestly don't think there's a more effective way to handle it.

👍 thanks for the whole post... though I suppose it’s a bit much for most people to wrap their heads around. 🙂

mistybison said:Look, I don't think the priest meant anything bad by it. In fact, he probably

didn't mean a damn thing. 😁

mistybison said:even if it's really just about one specific type of violence, whether we're talking about sexual assault or a slap in the face—it's all the same.

If that were true, then forcing someone to perform oral sex shouldn't be treated as any worse than forcing someone to go buy you a pack of Marlboros. And a slap should carry a heavier sentence than sexual assault. By that logic, child masturbation wouldn't even be a crime because there's no physical pain involved, just pleasure. Even prostitution would be on par with light manual labor. Honestly? That sounds absolutely insane to me.

Edward Green said:didn't mean a damn thing. 😁

If that were true, then forcing someone to perform oral sex shouldn't be treated as any worse than forcing someone to go buy you a pack of Marlboros. And a slap should carry a heavier sentence than sexual assault. By that logic, child masturbation wouldn't even be a crime because there's no physical pain involved, just pleasure. Even prostitution would be on par with light manual labor. Honestly? That sounds absolutely insane to me.

My intention was simply to point out that sexual assault is fundamentally a form of physical violence. I am not suggesting it is identical to being slapped, but rather that it should be treated as any other act of physical violence. We need to move away from the idea that it is uniquely damaging to dignity or honor in a way that other forms of violence aren't. Many people still cling to outdated moralities regarding "shame" and "honor," and I believe it is important to clear up that distinction.

Edward Green said:didn't mean a damn thing. 😁

If that were true, then forcing someone to perform oral sex shouldn't be treated as any worse than forcing someone to go buy you a pack of Marlboros. And a slap should carry a heavier sentence than sexual assault. By that logic, child masturbation wouldn't even be a crime because there's no physical pain involved, just pleasure. Even prostitution would be on par with light manual labor. Honestly? That sounds absolutely insane to me.

I have to disagree.🧐

His farewell speech regarding Christine is just the tip of the iceberg. It needs to be viewed through the lens of how the Church treats women as a whole. In that framework, sexual violence isn't treated as a crime. Even the sanctity of marriage is undermined if a woman refuses to submit to assault. The expectation is that her role is strictly procreation, not intimacy, and certainly not choosing abortion.

That is the foundation of what Edward Green was saying. And it won't change anytime soon.

🙂🙂🙂

mistybison said:That might have been true in a different historical era. In the past, a woman who lost her virginity before marriage was often labeled "dishonored." Losing one's innocence was synonymous with losing one's honor. Such an act would essentially "shame" her, ruining her chances of marriage, and at best, she might be sent to a convent. From those ancient perspectives, rape was tantamount to death; in fact, death was often seen as a better option than being assaulted. It is quite easy to imagine women begging their attackers to kill them instead, or even preferring death over the trauma. Death would "preserve her honor," whereas assault left her with nothing but a "life of shame."
Today, making such a statement feels absurd because we live in a completely different age. Sex is no longer a taboo tied to "female honor." Of course, we are still far from being entirely free from those outdated mindsets, which is why victims of assault may still feel "shamed," as if the attacker "took" something from them—even though it is simply a matter of violence, whether that takes the form of sexual assault or physical battery. They are fundamentally the same thing.
Furthermore, debating whether a victim fought back or surrendered is a modern mistake. Most women would certainly attempt to defend themselves, and if they realized resistance was futile, they might submit simply to save their lives. There is no basis for moralizing about that choice.
As for the priest, I don't believe he intended anything malicious. He likely meant to offer some comfort to the parents of the deceased girl to ease their grief. While his wording was clumsy and open to interpretation, I doubt there was any deeper, darker message behind his statement.

From the book "The Vagina Monologues" by Eve Ensler

My vagina was once these lush, dew-covered, soft pink fields, filled with the lowing of cows and the gentle sensation of a soft straw held in my maiden hands. /Something exists between my legs. I don't know what it is. And I don't know where it is: I don't touch it. Not now. Not anymore. Not after that. /My vagina was vibrant, talkative, impatient, so incredibly chatty and it just wouldn't stop talking, oh yes, oh yes. /But not since I've been dreaming that it’s a dead animal, stitched shut down there with thick black thread. And that heavy, sickening stench of a carcass just won't wash away. Its throat has been slit, and the blood bleeding out from it seeps through all my summer dresses. /My vagina sings all the songs of girlhood, the sound of goat bells spreading out, all those wanton autumn songs, the songs of the vagina. /But not anymore, not since those soldiers shoved a long, thick rifle inside me. That cold, metallic rod froze my very heart. I couldn't tell if they wanted to fire it or just use it to tear me apart. Six of them, these monstrous doctors wearing black masks over their faces, shoved things into me along with bottles. Various rods. A broomstick handle. /My vagina. My beautiful, wet village. They attacked it, conquered it, destroyed it, burned it to the ground. Down there, I don't touch myself anymore. I don't go there. Now I am somewhere else entirely. I don't even know where. (My vagina, my beautiful village).

Do you still feel the same way about the bolded part above?

steelridge58 said:From the book "The Vagina Monologues" by Eve Ensler

My vagina was once these lush, dew-covered, soft pink fields, filled with the lowing of cows and the gentle sensation of a soft straw held in my maiden hands. /Something exists between my legs. I don't know what it is. And I don't know where it is: I don't touch it. Not now. Not anymore. Not after that. /My vagina was vibrant, talkative, impatient, so incredibly chatty and it just wouldn't stop talking, oh yes, oh yes. /But not since I've been dreaming that it’s a dead animal, stitched shut down there with thick black thread. And that heavy, sickening stench of a carcass just won't wash away. Its throat has been slit, and the blood bleeding out from it seeps through all my summer dresses. /My vagina sings all the songs of girlhood, the sound of goat bells spreading out, all those wanton autumn songs, the songs of the vagina. /But not anymore, not since those soldiers shoved a long, thick rifle inside me. That cold, metallic rod froze my very heart. I couldn't tell if they wanted to fire it or just use it to tear me apart. Six of them, these monstrous doctors wearing black masks over their faces, shoved things into me along with bottles. Various rods. A broomstick handle. /My vagina. My beautiful, wet village. They attacked it, conquered it, destroyed it, burned it to the ground. Down there, I don't touch myself anymore. I don't go there. Now I am somewhere else entirely. I don't even know where. (My vagina, my beautiful village).

Do you still feel the same way about the bolded part above?

I believe what you described is nothing short of an act of monstrous violence.

That said, I don't doubt that those who have endured different forms of torture in concentration camps—which undoubtedly leaves permanent psychological and physical scars—might feel anything but "better."

However, I agree with what Edward Green noted, citing DK, that a survivor's recovery is made significantly harder by the inherited attitudes toward sex that we all carry, which are the direct result of the Christian culture in which we were raised.

Jose Miller3 said:But honestly, we have zero clue what she actually chose, how she acted, what was going through her head, or what those last three minutes of her life were actually like.

For all we know, maybe she was terrified and begging for her life at the end... just wanting to be left alone. We don't know. Even a priest doesn't know. Her parents don't know either.

The only person who truly knows is the pathological killer, whom obviously none of us are ever going to believe anyway...

My initial question was really just... what exactly makes her one of the "great women" of our era? I still don't have an answer, even though this thread turned into such a solid debate...👍

But hey, she stood her ground. To me, that’s a choice. There could've been other ways it ended, but whatever.

As for that initial question, I'm not totally sure, but I feel like the answer might lie in the whole "martyrdom" aspect, especially since we're talking about a priest.

casualowl1 said:But hey, she stood her ground. To me, that’s a choice. There could've been other ways it ended, but whatever.

As for that initial question, I'm not totally sure, but I feel like the answer might lie in the whole "martyrdom" aspect, especially since we're talking about a priest.

Honestly, nobody actually knows...

That priest might want to believe it—it’d definitely make things easier for the parents—but we just don't know. Don't tell me you're actually buying what the killer said during that first interrogation with the cops, claiming she just slipped and fell and accidentally killed 😕
...

Edward Green said:Were you actually there? I get the feeling she was just attacked and defending herself, rather than fighting for some grand human rights
cause. 🙄

He's implying you have to fight against sexual assault.
You're implying people shouldn't resist assault because they might fail and lose their lives in the process.

No, look, in most situations where someone tries to assault you, it isn't exactly a choice between two evils—like choosing between being raped or being murdered.

If it were like that, I’d totally support a woman's right to choose life. 🙂
But life isn't some weird video game where things work the way you're describing them.

Sure, you can argue that people should fight back against assault—you could point to that girl who tossed a predator out of her car last week—but saying that at someone's funeral... I just don't get it.

It is incredibly honorable to die fighting for ideals, for freedom, and for one's own human dignity.

I believe that. 🙂 But we aren't talking about dying for an ideal here; we're talking about a brutal murder.

What do you even know about honor and respect?

Nothing. 😉

And the saddest part is that you're ignoring the fact that the person who said this knew her personally and understood her ideals, whereas you haven't got a clue.

Does a priest know his parishioners' ideals? Fine, if you say so. 🙂

Chloe Smith11
I think the statement was clumsy, but its main purpose was to encourage the family and send a message to other women not to back down.

And what kind of message does that send to rape survivors? How exactly do you think a woman should feel—stripped of her "honor," her dignity, and her unfulfilled dreams—while we glorify this manufactured myth about a girl sacrificing her entire life at the altar of virginity, choosing death over losing her hymen?

2. Showing a woman fighting back against a rapist isn't meant to be heroic because she was murdered; it's meant to empower or support women in abusive situations to fight for themselves.

So, her role model should be a dead 21-year-old? I (maybe? obviously 😁) don't have any honor or dignity left, but if someone pointed a gun at my head, I’d still be singing some nursery rhyme. Personally, I think recovering from assault is easier than recovering from your own murder.😬

The priest's attempt to offer comfort clearly worked for the father, and that's what matters most.

If some survivor who didn't "defend her honor" jumped off a church steeple, would that still be okay? This guy said this in a public forum, not in a private conversation.

In these tough times, when traditional values are being pushed aside by reckless consumers of all kinds of pleasures—including physical ones—she gave her life rather than lose her hymen? The priest is an idiot.🤷

As for dignity, here's the definition:
the state of being worthy of honour or respect

Do rape survivors stop being worthy of respect?😕

If you're defending yourself, that basically means you're protecting everything that makes you *you*—your heart, your mind, your body, both physically and mentally. You're defending your entire existence.

At the end of the day, you either fight back or you don't. Those are your choices. There could be a million different ways those paths play out, even if the final outcome ends up looking the same either way.

restlessridge36 said:unknown,
Your message to women is fundamentally flawed and serves only to embolden attackers and rapists.
According to your logic, an attacked woman should simply submit and allow herself to be violated by anyone using force,
just because
she might otherwise face a bullet or a blow that could kill her?

How can anyone—including yourself—possibly argue that she was merely defending her hymen?

In the heat of an attack, a person reacts unknown, just as they react when fighting for their life. One does not selectively choose to protect an ear, an eye, or a kidney over a hymen.

We cannot predict how we would react in such a situation, nor can we teach anyone else to do so, because instinct operates independently of reason.

Instinctive actions stem from the amygdala, the brain's "shortcut" center,
rather than through the conscious, deliberative pathways we use when we aren't in immediate danger.

Even if an attacked individual managed to compose themselves and choose submission over resistance,
who is to guarantee they would be left alive?
An attacker knows that afterward comes trial, social condemnation, prison, or perhaps a bullet—a swift and entirely just 😉 act of retribution from the victim, her brothers, or her father.

No one here is suggesting that survivors do not deserve respect; rather, we are stating that being violated destroys one's self-respect.
That is a massive distinction.
The victim loses her sense of self-worth. She is blamed. Despised. Judged mentally;
told things like she should have fought harder, run sooner, been more cautious, trained in martial arts, built more muscle, stayed indoors, or avoided being out at noon.

She is left feeling pathetic and weak.

I saw her post the exact same way!

Jose Miller3 said:Honestly, nobody actually knows...

That priest might want to believe it—it’d definitely make things easier for the parents—but we just don't know. Don't tell me you're actually buying what the killer said during that first interrogation with the cops, claiming she just slipped and fell and accidentally killed 😕
...

Anyway, I don't have a TV, and if I even pick up a newspaper—which is super rare for me—I never touch the crime section. So, I don't really have much info on this specific case.

Brandon Castillo4 said:

The statement implies there's a need to fight back.
Your stance suggests it’s better just to roll over the second someone looks at you sideways. At least you’ll stay alive that way. That is a pathetic choice.

It wasn't a choice. She was trapped by a psychopath—someone she thought was just some decent guy she met once. Who actually knows what went down? Maybe in a different scenario, he would've backed off after she pushed his hand away the first time.

I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing this was a pure explosion of panic. A fight for survival, for personal space, for basic human rights. Just raw, massive fear.

There was NO CHOICE.

Some people will probably claim she had a ballot in her hand where she could have voted for a different outcome, but instead, being "brave," she chose death. That is such an exaggerated, ridiculous take, and it isn't a CHOICE. Who knows what his actual intention was? We don't know what really happened. He’s clearly lying, claiming he didn't intend to assault her and that he just pushed her, causing her to fall, etc.—which does absolutely nothing to explain the bruises all over him or those injuries on his hands.

The bottom line is that the priest shouldn't have been getting dragged into these kinds of debates during her funeral.

She could have chosen not to push his hand away. That's a choice.

Man, you painted a pretty intense picture of that adrenaline rush and struggle. But honestly, when people are terrified, they can totally freeze up.

The priest didn't start an argument; he was just trying to comfort the family the best way he knew how. We're the ones getting into this debate. And honestly? It's pointless and a waste of time.

blueheron62 said:Someone should get a permanent ban for saying that.
Are you even aware that by saying that, you've basically stripped rape of its status as a criminal offense? You're making me sick.

I don't see what's so inappropriate about it. Like, Marlboro Man basically thinks standing up against assault is just someone trying to protect their own dignity. I really don't think that kind of take warrants a moderator ban.😕

casualowl1 said:She could have chosen not to push his hand away. That's a choice.

Man, you painted a pretty intense picture of that adrenaline rush and struggle. But honestly, when people are terrified, they can totally freeze up.

The priest didn't start an argument; he was just trying to comfort the family the best way he knew how. We're the ones getting into this debate. And honestly? It's pointless and a waste of time.

Furthermore, the girl's father stated in an interview that he finds solace in knowing she wasn't raped.
He was comforted by the fact that her killer didn't break her spirit, nor did he violate or humiliate her in that manner.
From that perspective, the priest's words serve merely as a balm for the grieving.
Priests understand their parishioners through confession, which functions much like psychotherapy; he knew exactly what needed to be said and what they needed to hear.

Many eulogies glorify the deceased, exaggerating life achievements and portraying everyone in the best possible light.
(Everyone was supposedly a selfless soul, a devoted parent, etc.)
But this girl hadn't even begun to make her mark on the world.
She was "simply" a fighter for herself and her principles. She refused to let her killer crush her soul.
I cannot, and will not, believe that anyone still thinks honor and dignity are living concepts today.

A slight departure from the subject:
A friend from elementary school lost her son (age 4) during a routine surgery
(appendectomy). She lives in Germany. I saw her this summer, three months after the tragedy. When I went to offer my condolences, I struggled to find the right words, so I just asked: "I heard from your mother... how are you holding up?" (I didn't even dare name the tragedy itself).
She replied with a smile: "I'm doing okay. God must have wanted him more, so He took him home."😲
I am not religious.
I haven't quite recovered from her statement, but if that belief helps her survive, then it is wonderful.

The same applies to this girl's family. Someone has to support the conviction that her struggle wasn't in vain and that she departed with dignity.

restlessridge36 said:Furthermore, the girl's father stated in an interview that he finds solace in knowing she wasn't raped.
He was comforted by the fact that her killer didn't break her spirit, nor did he violate or humiliate her in that manner.
From that perspective, the priest's words serve merely as a balm for the grieving.
Priests understand their parishioners through confession, which functions much like psychotherapy; he knew exactly what needed to be said and what they needed to hear.

Many eulogies glorify the deceased, exaggerating life achievements and portraying everyone in the best possible light.
(Everyone was supposedly a selfless soul, a devoted parent, etc.)
But this girl hadn't even begun to make her mark on the world.
She was "simply" a fighter for herself and her principles. She refused to let her killer crush her soul.
I cannot, and will not, believe that anyone still thinks honor and dignity are living concepts today.

A slight departure from the subject:
A friend from elementary school lost her son (age 4) during a routine surgery
(appendectomy). She lives in Germany. I saw her this summer, three months after the tragedy. When I went to offer my condolences, I struggled to find the right words, so I just asked: "I heard from your mother... how are you holding up?" (I didn't even dare name the tragedy itself).
She replied with a smile: "I'm doing okay. God must have wanted him more, so He took him home."😲
I am not religious.
I haven't quite recovered from her statement, but if that belief helps her survive, then it is wonderful.

The same applies to this girl's family. Someone has to support the conviction that her struggle wasn't in vain and that she departed with dignity.

I really hope your friend doesn't end up going through what I suspect might happen later on.
But like you, I'm not religious, so I won't sit here and analyze her reaction or debate whether religion acts as some kind of sedative.
Still, just one thought: I think, in the long run, it’s probably better to just walk straight through the fire... look the horror right in the face, cry your eyes out, shake, and scream if you have to. But man, that's almost impossible. We just can't handle it. So we find ways to cope... and sometimes, that includes religion.

Donna Campbell6 said:I really hope your friend doesn't end up going through what I suspect might happen later on.
But like you, I'm not religious, so I won't sit here and analyze her reaction or debate whether religion acts as some kind of sedative.
Still, just one thought: I think, in the long run, it’s probably better to just walk straight through the fire... look the horror right in the face, cry your eyes out, shake, and scream if you have to. But man, that's almost impossible. We just can't handle it. So we find ways to cope... and sometimes, that includes religion.

😲
I made it clear that I am not religious precisely because of the rigid attitudes, superficiality, and prejudices held by people like you.
-I don't usually mention it, nor is such information necessary for anyone else.

It was wise of Arna to notice. Nualin's post went unnoticed and misunderstood by many.
Especially the part where she suggests we should all reflect on how we exercise violence in our daily lives toward others.

"Hatred too often clouds our intelligence."

Jose Miller3 said:There’s something that’s been weighing on my mind for a couple of days now, and I honestly wasn't sure how to even start this thread 🙂

therefore, a local priest in a small town said this during the memorial service for Kristina Šušnjar:

"This young woman risked everything to fight for her own dignity and to defend her honor. She proved she would rather die than betray her youthful ideals—rather lose her physical life than trample over her human dignity and leave her dreams unfulfilled. By her martyr-like death, Kristina has been counted among the great women of our era," emphasized Ćubelić.

Okay, putting aside the absolute horror and tragedy of the whole situation—and don't get me wrong, the facts of this horrific murder are devastating—but is Kristina actually a hero? How did this poor girl (please don't take this as an attack on her, that's not what I'm doing at all, I just want to understand why the priest would say something so... questionable, IMHO) become a hero or a heroine? How exactly was she defending her "honor"?
Why, in the end, can we count her among the great women of our time?

Am I the only one seeing this clearly?

And why are you even bothering to give this any weight? Don't you have more productive ways to spend
your time, which is already so limited? Honestly, if it weren't for the news networks, radio, and all the other
media outlets, you wouldn't even know about Christina or that priest...
can't you see how trivial this information is, being "served" to us as if it actually matters???

STOP TURNING THE PHILOSOPHY SECTION INTO A "Gloria" SESSION!!! Moving from hearsay to topics that
offer absolutely zero philosophical value is useless; these subjects belong in a psychology textbook...

restlessridge36 said:😲
I made it clear that I am not religious precisely because of the rigid attitudes, superficiality, and prejudices held by people like you.
-I don't usually mention it, nor is such information necessary for anyone else.

It was wise of Arna to notice. Nualin's post went unnoticed and misunderstood by many.
Especially the part where she suggests we should all reflect on how we exercise violence in our daily lives toward others.

"Hatred too often clouds our intelligence."

Being as Rigid, superficial, and biased as I am, I can't help but feel like I'm right along with you and Arnin regarding Nualin's post. It's a struggle... First off, whenever someone tries to define or put death into neat little categories like she did, my internal alarm bells start ringing. Death is basically "unthinkable," according to Freud. Look, I'm not saying the old guy was always right, but he had some solid points there. We can talk about death all day, try to "deodorize" it or sugarcoat it, try to soothe ourselves however we want, or even pretend it isn't happening... but we'll never truly escape that nagging feeling that we're just putting on an act. None of us actually know anything about death—not me, being this shallow and Rigid, not you, who probably aren't, and certainly not Nuala when she's out here grandly announcing that death isn't even a tragedy.
And man, I've got thoughts on that whole violence thing too. It's pretty gutsy to take the concept of violence and stretch it to cover every single situation where someone just happens to yield to another person's will. Sure, it's worth reflecting on the ways we might be aggressive. But if you start linking cold-blooded psychopathic murder to the tiny daily annoyances—the little flaws we all have—you eventually end up with a version of science that uses relativism to label every single one of us as potential Jack Trbosjeks, Hitlers, or at the very least, rapists. The only difference would be whether the impulse actually turned into action or somehow miraculously didn't. I don't see how much good we'd get from that kind of "wisdom"...

Donna Campbell6 said:Being as Rigid, superficial, and biased as I am, I can't help but feel like I'm right along with you and Arnin regarding Nualin's post. It's a struggle... First off, whenever someone tries to define or put death into neat little categories like she did, my internal alarm bells start ringing. Death is basically "unthinkable," according to Freud. Look, I'm not saying the old guy was always right, but he had some solid points there. We can talk about death all day, try to "deodorize" it or sugarcoat it, try to soothe ourselves however we want, or even pretend it isn't happening... but we'll never truly escape that nagging feeling that we're just putting on an act. None of us actually know anything about death—not me, being this shallow and Rigid, not you, who probably aren't, and certainly not Nuala when she's out here grandly announcing that death isn't even a tragedy.
And man, I've got thoughts on that whole violence thing too. It's pretty gutsy to take the concept of violence and stretch it to cover every single situation where someone just happens to yield to another person's will. Sure, it's worth reflecting on the ways we might be aggressive. But if you start linking cold-blooded psychopathic murder to the tiny daily annoyances—the little flaws we all have—you eventually end up with a version of science that uses relativism to label every single one of us as potential Jack Trbosjeks, Hitlers, or at the very least, rapists. The only difference would be whether the impulse actually turned into action or somehow miraculously didn't. I don't see how much good we'd get from that kind of "wisdom"...

But look, that really is the reality of it... how many times haven't you heard the phrase, "He was such a quiet young man,
full of life and always smiling..." followed by some description of a
mass shooting... everything is just relative to a perspective, which is constantly shifting...
We are all potential Hitlers and Jack Trbosjeks; it is merely a question of whether "fate"
drives us to realize that dark side of ourselves... NEVER SAY NEVER !!!

Anthony Rivera17 said:But look, that really is the reality of it... how many times haven't you heard the phrase, "He was such a quiet young man,
full of life and always smiling..." followed by some description of a
mass shooting... everything is just relative to a perspective, which is constantly shifting...
We are all potential Hitlers and Jack Trbosjeks; it is merely a question of whether "fate"
drives us to realize that dark side of ourselves... NEVER SAY NEVER !!!

We all have that aggressive, destructive streak in us... and honestly, those aren't always bad things. Like, try picking up a girl without being a little bit assertive at some point, you know? If you're too careful about not stepping on her toes, you'll never make a move. Impossible.☕ You’re always, even just at first, pushing your way into someone's personal space... even if it's just a tiny bit. Plus, self-defense is basically built on aggressive instincts.
Still, I can't really get behind the second half of your post. I don't think we can just write everything off as "relative," otherwise any conversation about human nature just becomes totally pointless after a while...