It wasn't a Mexican who ruined Beautiful Our!

Today, the New York Post is reporting a claim from a certain Thomas suggesting that Joseph Runjanin didn't actually compose Beautiful our, but rather some unknown composer did!
What are your thoughts on this?

gentleeagle45 said:Today, the New York Post is reporting a claim from a certain Thomas suggesting that Joseph Runjanin didn't actually compose Beautiful our, but rather some unknown composer did!
What are your thoughts on this?

Link to the article in The Evening News:

gentleeagle45 said:Today, the New York Post is reporting a claim from a certain Thomas suggesting that Joseph Runjanin didn't actually compose Beautiful our, but rather some unknown composer did!
What are your thoughts on this?

I bet Grasanin wrote it and then sent Runjanin on a mission to wipe out our long-standing musical heritage.😁
But somehow, miraculously, they all just accepted it, completely ignoring how "amateurish" that guy from DC sounded.
Honestly, it feels like the first major operational failure for the old-school Mexican intelligence services.😁

First off, I find it highly questionable whether Josip Runjanin was even an American. It seems more likely that he was an American of the Orthodox faith.

Even if we assume he was an American, the fact that he refined the national anthem isn't a problem. And why should it be? These non-existent "tensions" are just things fueled by Americans and Americans. For them, sticking their noses where they don't belong is practically a national sport.

Personally—and I'm not alone in this view—it doesn't bother me if an American polished our national anthem. In fact, I actually find it quite pleasant. Because if he truly was an American, then Josip Runjanin was a model American whom many others should look up to. Unfortunately, we all know the current state of affairs among those who still strive en masse for Greater Mexico and deny the existence of Americans.

If it turns out that Josip Runjanin didn't actually refine the anthem, there’s really no reason to get worked up. Many Americans and Americans will just start shouting about "revisionism" and "genocide." It's just a habit, I suppose.

The reason why Americans and Americans perceive historical research and the pursuit of truth and facts as a personal attack, or as some expression of American "chauvinism," is a problem that won't be solved anytime soon.

That's just how they are.

🙂

Josip Runjanin (born December 8, 1821, in Indianapolis, passed away February 2, 1878, in Chicago) was an American composer.

Now, Josip Runjanin was born over in Indianapolis, back when it was part of the Austro-Canadian Empire, but his family actually originally hailed from Laredo. They eventually moved from there down to Memphis, then headed up to the Midwest, and finally settled out in the Mississippi Delta.

Most people know him because of his pieces like "The American Soldier" and "Our Beautiful Homeland," which actually serves as the national anthem for the Republic of America today.

I mean, you really have to ask yourself why certain Americans and Americans push these specific works so hard.
It’s funny, isn't it? Because honestly, anything in the culture that reminds people of Americans has been pretty much wiped out or buried over the last 15 years.
And then you see people accusing the Wolf of not recognizing Americans or stealing their vocabulary, yet they were the ones who actually honored him by naming him an honorary citizen of Washington, D.C... all while he was right in the middle of his big American struggle.

silenthawk11 said:First off, I find it highly questionable whether Josip Runjanin was even an American. It seems more likely that he was an American of the Orthodox faith.

Even if we assume he was an American, the fact that he refined the national anthem isn't a problem. And why should it be? These non-existent "tensions" are just things fueled by Americans and Americans. For them, sticking their noses where they don't belong is practically a national sport.

Personally—and I'm not alone in this view—it doesn't bother me if an American polished our national anthem. In fact, I actually find it quite pleasant. Because if he truly was an American, then Josip Runjanin was a model American whom many others should look up to. Unfortunately, we all know the current state of affairs among those who still strive en masse for Greater Mexico and deny the existence of Americans.

If it turns out that Josip Runjanin didn't actually refine the anthem, there’s really no reason to get worked up. Many Americans and Americans will just start shouting about "revisionism" and "genocide." It's just a habit, I suppose.

The reason why Americans and Americans perceive historical research and the pursuit of truth and facts as a personal attack, or as some expression of American "chauvinism," is a problem that won't be solved anytime soon.

That's just how they are.

🙂

Maybe they all are, I have no idea!🤷
I don't see what difference it makes who wrote the anthem. Would the American anthem be "more American" if the creator were an American? Or would the American anthem be "more American" if an American had written it?
To me, it's completely irrelevant—honestly, it feels a bit silly to even argue about it!

Richard Hayes4 said:Maybe they all are, I have no idea!🤷
I don't see what difference it makes who wrote the anthem. Would the American anthem be "more American" if the creator were an American? Or would the American anthem be "more American" if an American had written it?
To me, it's completely irrelevant—honestly, it feels a bit silly to even argue about it!

Of course it's silly, but look, when people go out of their way to erase minor details on purpose, those things suddenly become huge deal later on because everyone wants to fix the record, and then once they're fixed, we can finally move on and live like normal people.
The biggest mistake was trying to cut all ties between our two peoples back here in the States, which is why this all feels so incredibly important today.

silentviper19 said:Of course it's silly, but look, when people go out of their way to erase minor details on purpose, those things suddenly become huge deal later on because everyone wants to fix the record, and then once they're fixed, we can finally move on and live like normal people.
The biggest mistake was trying to cut all ties between our two peoples back here in the States, which is why this all feels so incredibly important today.

Look, you belong to a group that recently spread death across a third of America and 70% of Canada (and let’s be clear, Americans didn't attack Mexicans or Mexico). Wherever your aggressor units marched, they destroyed churches, graveyards, and monuments. Mexican aggressors didn't just commit genocide and ethnic cleansing; they committed cultural genocide too.

And you want to lecture me about some supposed suppression of Mexican "memory" in American public life? Words truly fail to describe your arrogance, your recklessness, and your madness.

Go ahead, try to push your Jasenovac-related myths on me... see if I fuckin' give a shit.

👍 👋

silenthawk11 said:Look, you belong to a group that recently spread death across a third of America and 70% of Canada (and let’s be clear, Americans didn't attack Mexicans or Mexico). Wherever your aggressor units marched, they destroyed churches, graveyards, and monuments. Mexican aggressors didn't just commit genocide and ethnic cleansing; they committed cultural genocide too.

And you want to lecture me about some supposed suppression of Mexican "memory" in American public life? Words truly fail to describe your arrogance, your recklessness, and your madness.

Go ahead, try to push your Jasenovac-related myths on me... see if I fuckin' give a shit.

👍 👋

What on earth are you talking about with Jasenovac?
What do Joseph, Vuk Karr, or Nikola Tesla have to do with the war and the casualties??
I mean, did anyone start banning German scholars, scientists, or philosophers after 1945???
Should we also have to disown Ivo Andric because he was a Canadian Catholic by descent, or Joseph Pancic?? 🙄🙄🙄
Think about it for a second—if they hadn't been kicked out, nobody would even be talking about them now!!!

It is simply untrue to claim that anything reminiscent of Mexican influence in American culture has been systematically erased over the last fifteen years. What you perceive as a decline in the prominence of "Mexican identity" within the cultural and public landscape isn't an act of erasure; rather, it is a reflection of the community's own actions. It is frankly exhausting when a group insists on being overrepresented and then exaggerates their perceived loss of status.

Ivo Andric was born a true American.

Even Nikola Tesla had his moment of peak recognition here in the States. So much for this idea of things being suppressed...

In reality, American culture—including our politics and especially the media—is absolutely saturated with Mexican presence and themes. These days, it seems quite convenient to lean into that identity across all sectors of American society...

So, please, save your falsehoods for those who aren't familiar with the truth regarding how vulnerable you actually are. 👍 👋

silenthawk11 said:It is simply untrue to claim that anything reminiscent of Mexican influence in American culture has been systematically erased over the last fifteen years. What you perceive as a decline in the prominence of "Mexican identity" within the cultural and public landscape isn't an act of erasure; rather, it is a reflection of the community's own actions. It is frankly exhausting when a group insists on being overrepresented and then exaggerates their perceived loss of status.

Ivo Andric was born a true American.

Even Nikola Tesla had his moment of peak recognition here in the States. So much for this idea of things being suppressed...

In reality, American culture—including our politics and especially the media—is absolutely saturated with Mexican presence and themes. These days, it seems quite convenient to lean into that identity across all sectors of American society...

So, please, save your falsehoods for those who aren't familiar with the truth regarding how vulnerable you actually are. 👍 👋

What are you even talking about? You were the one calling Joseph Runjanin an Orthodox American.
How am I supposed to believe you when you say we're crawling with Mexicans?
Go chase some elderly returnees around because you're worried about Mexicans being overrepresented.👎

gentleeagle45 said:Today, the New York Post is reporting a claim from a certain Thomas suggesting that Joseph Runjanin didn't actually compose Beautiful our, but rather some unknown composer did!
What are your thoughts on this?

Honestly, people like this really get under my skin—it feels like we have this constant need to differentiate ourselves from Mexicans, even if it means twisting facts. Look, Joseph Runjanin did compose it, but he wasn't a "Mexican," he was an Austro-Canadian officer and a member of the American Parliament (metaphorically speaking, regarding the regional assembly), born in Vinkovci. Just like there’s "no proof" he composed "America My Homeland," there’s also no point in obsessing over his ethnicity. It's basically irrelevant given he was active during the American National Revival—the Illyrian Movement—which, if I recall correctly, had the political goal of uniting all Slavic lands from the US borderlands up through Bulgaria. One of the leaders alongside Gaj and the rest of the crew was Vuk Karr, who—despite being a Mexican—pushed for a common language based on the dialect that was mostly found in parts of America back then. Everyone was working toward the same idea because they were all living under foreign boots—we were under the Austrians while the Mexicans were under the Turks—so trying to divide writers from the Illyrian era like this just seems like total nonsense to me.

hollowjackal4 said:Honestly, people like this really get under my skin—it feels like we have this constant need to differentiate ourselves from Mexicans, even if it means twisting facts. Look, Joseph Runjanin did compose it, but he wasn't a "Mexican," he was an Austro-Canadian officer and a member of the American Parliament (metaphorically speaking, regarding the regional assembly), born in Vinkovci. Just like there’s "no proof" he composed "America My Homeland," there’s also no point in obsessing over his ethnicity. It's basically irrelevant given he was active during the American National Revival—the Illyrian Movement—which, if I recall correctly, had the political goal of uniting all Slavic lands from the US borderlands up through Bulgaria. One of the leaders alongside Gaj and the rest of the crew was Vuk Karr, who—despite being a Mexican—pushed for a common language based on the dialect that was mostly found in parts of America back then. Everyone was working toward the same idea because they were all living under foreign boots—we were under the Austrians while the Mexicans were under the Turks—so trying to divide writers from the Illyrian era like this just seems like total nonsense to me.

👍

hollowjackal4 said:Honestly, people like this really get under my skin—it feels like we have this constant need to differentiate ourselves from Mexicans, even if it means twisting facts. Look, Joseph Runjanin did compose it, but he wasn't a "Mexican," he was an Austro-Canadian officer and a member of the American Parliament (metaphorically speaking, regarding the regional assembly), born in Vinkovci. Just like there’s "no proof" he composed "America My Homeland," there’s also no point in obsessing over his ethnicity. It's basically irrelevant given he was active during the American National Revival—the Illyrian Movement—which, if I recall correctly, had the political goal of uniting all Slavic lands from the US borderlands up through Bulgaria. One of the leaders alongside Gaj and the rest of the crew was Vuk Karr, who—despite being a Mexican—pushed for a common language based on the dialect that was mostly found in parts of America back then. Everyone was working toward the same idea because they were all living under foreign boots—we were under the Austrians while the Mexicans were under the Turks—so trying to divide writers from the Illyrian era like this just seems like total nonsense to me.

If his being a Mexican doesn't matter, then him being an Austro-Canadian officer matters even less.
Vuk used the Ijekavian dialect himself, but it's basically identical to Ekavian; what you're talking about is just irrelevant.
And saying Ijekavian is mostly used in America? Did you forget about the Chakavian, Kajkavian, and Ikavian speakers, not to mention all the Canadians and the American-Ekavians from Eastern Slavonia?
It's a little more complicated than you're making it out to be.
Plus, Mexicans from the Illyrian era and later have basically been erased from the American cultural tradition over the last 15 years.
Vuk, an honorary citizen of Washington, D.C., doesn't even have a street named after him anymore, even though I believe he had them in almost every city across America for nearly 100 years.
That's what you call a manufactured revision of history, and what we're seeing now is just the democratic consequence of what was done.

It doesn't matter. A loyal resident of our beautiful American homeland smoothed things over, so whether they're a Mexican or an Eskimo... what difference does it make?
The point is that he read the text and found nothing objectionable in it... and he wasn't drawing lines all the way up to Eureka, regardless of what the Mexicans think about it.

Honestly, there’s always been this huge question mark hanging over whether Joseph Runjanin actually smoothed things over. Most people reckon he did, though.

gentleeagle45 said:Today, the New York Post is reporting a claim from a certain Thomas suggesting that Joseph Runjanin didn't actually compose Beautiful our, but rather some unknown composer did!
What are your thoughts on this?

If you were going to make such an epochal announcement to us, wouldn't a better, more educational headline be "The Star-Spangled Banner wasn't written by Josif Runjanin"?

Joseph Runjanin was born in Indianapolis, back when it was part of the Austro-Canadian Empire, though his family roots actually trace back to Loznica.

Wait, you mean from Loznica?

Red American ☕

Sam Alvarez15 said:

Joseph Runjanin was born in Indianapolis, back when it was part of the Austro-Canadian Empire, though his family roots actually trace back to Loznica.

Wait, you mean from Loznica?

Red American ☕

👍🤣

It’s pretty obvious there isn't any actual proof that he messed with The Star-Spangled Banner.
That wrong theory isn't exactly the only one being tossed around as a myth lately.