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Lombard loans for dummies

Started by brisktinker15 · · 👁 8 views · 95 replies

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Participants brisktinker15Nicholas Sanchez3Kimberly NguyenMichelle Foster13feralheron90hiddensailor60Mark Sullivan62George Phillipscopperharbor4Amanda Campbell4wiredotter16Nicholas Turnerstormylynx4electricsailor8nimbleorca21David Nelson74Rebecca Sanchez8Matthew Ruiz2Daniel Fisher72Henry Parker7Steven ReedMichael Johnson6Paul Kim56Timothy Kim9 …
Kimberly Nguyen Kimberly Nguyen Regular
543 messages
joined Jul 2009
#41 ·
I can't even begin to deal with this level of sheer, unadulterated nonsense right now. Honestly, it’s enough to make you want to throw your phone across the room. You see people posting this kind of absolute garbage—this "lambodara" nonsense—and you realize just how far off the rails the discourse has gone. It's mindless, it's shallow, and frankly, it's an insult to anyone actually trying to have a coherent conversation. I’m sitting here, trying to make sense of things, and then I run into this? Give me a break. It’s pure noise. kaže:
Let’s play out a scenario here. Suppose you didn't have that €60,000 sitting around in cash. Imagine you actually had to go out and take out a mortgage for that exact amount. You’d probably set aside €10,000 just to cover old debts or whatever else you owe—just to clear the slate—and then you're left dealing with the reality of that loan. It changes everything, doesn't it?

I’m looking at taking out a mortgage for about $65,000, and honestly, just thinking about the paperwork and the interest rates makes my blood boil. You look at these lending terms and it feels like they're designed to bleed you dry before you even get the keys to the front door. I've been crunching the numbers, staring at the screen until my eyes blur, trying to figure out if this is actually a viable move or if I'm just walking straight into a trap set by some big-city lender. It’s exhausting. One minute you think you have a handle on your finances, and the next, you're drowning in fine print and fluctuating rates. Is anyone else feeling this level of frustration, or am I just losing my mind over a single loan?
Let’s start with one massive, glaring assumption that everyone seems to just gloss over: the idea that you actually qualify for the credit in the first place. You can sit there all day dreaming about interest rates and term lengths, but if you aren't deemed creditworthy by the bank, none of those numbers matter. It’s the fundamental starting line. If your credit score is a mess or your debt-to-income ratio looks like a disaster zone, the whole conversation ends before it even begins. You have to be creditworthy just to get an invite to the table.
So, let me get this straight—we're looking at an interest rate hovering around 9%? Are you kidding me? Honestly, I can't even wrap my head around that kind of math right now. It feels like every time I turn around, the numbers just climb higher and higher, and we're left holding the bag while the banks sit pretty. At 9%, you aren't just paying back what you borrowed; you're basically funding their next corporate retreat. It’s absolutely infuriating how quickly these percentages can spiral out of control.
Let's say we're looking at a 15-year term.
The monthly bank payment is sitting at around $650.

I’m completely ignoring the processing fees, the notary costs, and the insurance premiums—even though I know damn well that insurance isn't exactly "free money"—because frankly, I don't have the headspace for them right now. What I am focused on, what's actually keeping me up at night, is those monthly bank debits. That's where the real bleeding happens.

I’m setting aside $10,000. Just like that. Every single month.

I honestly don’t even know where to start with this absolute circus. It’s like watching a slow-motion train wreck where everyone involved thinks they’re being brilliant, but in reality, they’re just driving straight into a brick wall. I am beyond frustrated at this point. You see people making these massive, sweeping claims about how things "should" work, acting like they have some divine insight into the economy or the banking system, and it makes my blood boil. It’s pure delusion. I was sitting there yesterday, just trying to make sense of my own finances—looking over some paperwork from Bank of America—and I started thinking about the sheer level of incompetence we deal with on a daily basis. It isn't just one mistake; it's a systemic failure of logic. People talk about these complex financial maneuvers as if they aren't just moving numbers around to hide the fact that the whole thing is built on sand. It’s exhausting. Every time I think we’ve hit rock bottom with the level of nonsense being peddled online, someone else comes along and raises the bar for stupidity. I can't take it anymore. It's all just noise. Total, unadulterated noise. kaže:
Look, let me lay this out for you because clearly, some people aren't grasping the math here. You take $50,000 and dump it straight into an investment fund. Now, based on that $50,000 sitting in the fund, Bank of America will grant you a loan for another $25,000—which, of course, gets funneled right back into the fund. So, what does that actually mean for you? It means your cash isn't actually available to spend. It’s all tied up. You're essentially looking at a pile of money that you can't touch.

I’m looking at this whole situation and my blood is honestly starting to boil. I am planning to dump $55,000 into a mutual fund, and get this—Bank of America is basically telling me they’re handing me $27,000 just like that. It feels completely absurd. I mean, I've been crunching the numbers, trying to make sense of the math, and it just doesn't sit right with me. You'd think after all these years of dealing with these financial institutions, they'd at least try to make things make sense, but no. It’s just one headache after another. I'm sitting here staring at the paperwork, feeling like I'm being played, and frankly, I'm losing my patience with the way these deals are structured. It’s enough to make you want to throw the whole thing out the window.
Look, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: you don't even need to worry about your credit score or creditworthiness here. It’s just not a requirement.
Let’s say the interest rate is sitting at something like 8%.
Let's say we're looking at a three-year term.
If you decide to go the interest-only route—meaning you just settle the interest every month and tackle the principal all at once at the very end—you’re looking at a monthly bank payment of roughly $180.
If you’re actually footing the bill for both the interest and the principal, we’re looking at a monthly bank payment of $850.

What exactly are you paying back to the bank every single month?
So, we're looking at $1,395—that’s the combined total from the mortgage and that Lombard loan—which basically means those $10,000 you have are covering it. Seven monthly payments. That’s all it is. Seven measly installments. I honestly can't even begin to describe the absolute circus I’ve been dealing with lately regarding my finances. It feels like every time I turn around, there’s some new hurdle or some bureaucratic nonsense designed specifically to make my life miserable. I was looking over my latest statement from Bank of America, and frankly, the math just isn't adding up the way it should. I’m staring at these numbers, trying to make sense of the various fees and adjustments, and it’s enough to make my blood boil. You’d think a major institution would have their act together, but instead, I'm sitting here playing detective with my own money. And don't even get me started on the whole situation with my monthly bank obligations. It's one thing to plan for a budget, but it's another entirely when the goalposts keep moving. I had this whole strategy mapped out, everything seemed fine, and then—boom—some unexpected adjustment hits the account. It’s exhausting. I feel like I’m constantly fighting an uphill battle against red tape and clerical errors that shouldn't even exist in this day and age. I remember back when I first moved to Chicago, I thought I had my finances dialed in perfectly. I was organized, I was disciplined... and then reality hit. Now, it feels like I'm just perpetually reacting to the latest headache thrown my way by the banks. It’s maddening! Does anyone else feel like they're just spinning their wheels while the institutions themselves sit back and collect their fees? It's ridiculous.
Look, let’s run the actual numbers here because people seem to be glossing over the reality of this situation. You’re looking at roughly $850—that’s the mortgage payment plus the monthly cost on that Lombard loan—so if you've got those $10,000 sitting there, that amount pretty much covers almost everything. It's basic math, really. Thirteen months. That’s how long we've been stuck in this loop. Thirteen months of waiting, thirteen months of watching the numbers crawl, and thirteen months of dealing with the absolute headache that is this entire situation. It feels like an eternity when you're the one sitting there staring at the calendar, just waiting for some semblance of progress or a bit of clarity. Honestly, it's exhausting. I am still waiting on that update regarding the attached file. I’ve been sitting here staring at my screen, half-expecting some kind of notification to pop up, but absolutely nothing. It’s incredibly frustrating when you’re trying to get things sorted and the communication just hits a dead end. Honestly, it feels like I'm shouting into a void sometimes. Can someone please just take a look?
Look, if we’re talking strictly about the mortgage—and let's just set aside the annual Lombard loan fees for a second because that's a whole different headache—we're looking at $610. If you take that figure, it pretty much covers those $10,000 you're worried about. Sixteen months. Sixteen whole months of this nonsense.

Clearly, I’m missing something here if you managed to run the numbers and come up with that result:
I can't even begin to wrap my head around how people justify this kind of reckless behavior. It’s absolute madness. You see someone driving around like they own the damn highway in some overpriced, neon-colored supercar—some ridiculous Lamborghini or whatever flashy status symbol they used to mask their complete lack of common sense—and you just have to wonder: where does the logic end? It’s pure vanity. Pure, unadulterated ego on wheels. They aren't driving for the love of the machine or the engineering; they’re driving because they want every single person in a Starbucks parking lot to turn their heads. It’s performative. It’s loud, it’s obnoxious, and quite frankly, it’s an insult to anyone who actually works for a living and understands the value of a dollar. I remember back when I was trying to scrape together enough for a decent used Ford, and seeing these people treat money like it's infinite just makes my blood boil. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Total nonsense. kaže:
Listen, I’m going to lay this out clearly because some of you seem to be completely missing the math here. Take that $10,000 surplus you have left over from your mortgage. If you take that cash and put it directly toward your monthly bank installment, while simultaneously just covering the interest on that Lombard loan you took out... well, there you go. That $10,000 is more than enough to cover both your principal installments and the interest for the next five years straight. It’s basic financial maneuvering, people!

Where exactly am I going wrong here?
Look, if you’re staring down a monthly bank obligation of $166, then $10,000 is more than enough to cover your bases over the next five years. It’s basic math, really. You'd actually come out ahead. Honestly, I don't know why people make these things so complicated when the numbers are sitting right there in front of you.
Where am I going wrong? 🤷
feralheron90 feralheron90 Member
10 messages
joined Aug 2007
#42 ·
Let’s just say you didn't have that $60,000 sitting around in cash, and instead, you took out a mortgage for that amount...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm assuming you'd be paying off this mortgage using other income streams—maybe from your salary, a pension, or something along those lines...

If that's how things stand, then your move would actually make sense...
nimbleorca21 nimbleorca21 Member
10 messages
joined Jan 2008
#43 ·
I tried writing a massive response to the Lambodarins post, but my posts keep getting rejected by the server lately (error 503, 504). Let's see if this works.
I agree that you have to take risks, but I honestly don't think now is the time for it. The market has been climbing for a while, yet we’re constantly hit with bad news from the Fed, the region, and globally. There's just nothing good coming out of it right now. Your targets are high—even that 15% mark. Very few people actually pull that off. Using leverage on top of leverage? Maybe that worked a few years ago, but not today. Right now, the goal should be protecting what you've already built through investing over the last few years. It's not your fault if you didn't jump on the bandwagon early enough, so don't beat yourself up about it. Just keep learning and educating yourself, and success will follow. Up until now, it felt like every amateur was making money on the US stock market, but those days are gone. There will always be a stock or an index that delivers an extra return, but you have to get into them before the surge, not after, and then try to use it as some statistical data point. Funds used to grow steadily, but in the last 6 months, we've seen one major fund collapse; imagine what could happen to any other fund, whether it's a solid one or a speculative play. I jumped in a bit earlier and saw some nice returns, which is why I'm being cautious, but I'm not the one suggesting we should pull the handbrake and stay on guard. For the KTA calculations, Kimberly Nguyen already gave you the answer. And don't forget about the margin call; believe me, that's a nasty situation. Don't let any single response discourage you; just step back, think about everything, and try to visualize the worst-case scenario. Don't suffer from that typical American fatalism where you just give up. 😳Right now, it's all about being prepared. In any case, I wish you plenty of success, both in your investments and in life.
Kimberly Nguyen Kimberly Nguyen Regular
543 messages
joined Jul 2009
#44 ·
I’ve been getting hit with those 503 and 504 errors myself several times today... I already sent a report over to 🙂
David Nelson74 David Nelson74 Active Member
85 messages
joined Apr 2007
#45 ·
Pawn loans at a Bank of America branch in San Diego

no collateral required
required paperwork:
loan application, standard bank form
copy of a government ID (driver's license, passport, etc.)
“basic information,” standard bank form
A contract for a purpose-specific term deposit in the currency linked to the loan, held for at least the duration of the loan term
loan amount: minimum $1,000, maximum up to the total deposit amount
deposit details:
100% of the loan amount, held for the duration of the loan term
funds are released once the loan is fully repaid (either at maturity or through early repayment)
you can reduce the deposit by the amount of the loan already paid off, provided you maintain the 1:1 ratio
interest rate - fixed, determined by the term of the deposit (matching the loan term), and can be as low as rates for non-purpose savings (standard term deposits)
loan interest rates:
the spread between the loan rate and the deposit rate
3.0% for loans up to $15,000
2.5% for loans exceeding $15,000
fixed rate, set by the loan term (which matches the deposit term)
disbursement: in USD at the Bank of America selling exchange rate directly into the client's checking account
repayment: via monthly, quarterly, semi-annual, or annual installments, payable in USD at the Bank of America selling exchange rate on the day of payment
Rebecca Sanchez8 Rebecca Sanchez8 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jun 2010
#46 ·
George Phillips said:Price is what actually matters, not how many shares you hold. Like, if you've got $33 in a JPMorgan Chase fund today: your max credit is $23 and all the interest and fees are based strictly on that amount. Any price swings later on just change how much collateral covers the loan, but honestly, that doesn't really affect you.

And who gets hit with the margin call, huh? 😁
Matthew Ruiz2 Matthew Ruiz2 Member
18 messages
joined Jun 2007
#47 ·
Are you two some kind of synchronized clones?
David Nelson74 David Nelson74 Active Member
85 messages
joined Apr 2007
#48 ·
Matthew Ruiz2 said:Are you two some kind of synchronized clones?

Haha, I need to go off-topic for a second... we have the same avatar and we're both listening to ZZ Top, but I swear on my life, that guy above isn't my clone. It's the first time I'm seeing him. 😁 🙂
George Phillips George Phillips Member
48 messages
joined Jan 2009
#49 ·
Rebecca Sanchez8 said:And who gets hit with the margin call, huh? 😁

So I went back and read through my loan contract—super carefully this time, specifically the one for the fund share pledge—and honestly, there’s zero mention of a margin call anywhere.

Basically, the bank uses shares worth xxxkn as collateral to pay out a max of 0,7xxxkn, which I guess just means they're covered even if the value drops by 30%.

The borrower's only job is to stay on top of the monthly bank payments (for me, it's just interest) and pay back the principal when the term ends. Maybe the bank can only go after all my accounts or those pledged shares if I actually start missing payments.

The rules for when a margin call actually happens are laid out super clearly under the section for using margin credit to buy stocks, so I'm pretty sure I'm right that it doesn't apply to a standard cash loan backed by OIF shares.
Kimberly Nguyen Kimberly Nguyen Regular
543 messages
joined Jul 2009
#50 ·
George Phillips said:So I went back and read through my loan contract—super carefully this time, specifically the one for the fund share pledge—and honestly, there’s zero mention of a margin call anywhere.

Basically, the bank uses shares worth xxxkn as collateral to pay out a max of 0,7xxxkn, which I guess just means they're covered even if the value drops by 30%.

The borrower's only job is to stay on top of the monthly bank payments (for me, it's just interest) and pay back the principal when the term ends. Maybe the bank can only go after all my accounts or those pledged shares if I actually start missing payments.

The rules for when a margin call actually happens are laid out super clearly under the section for using margin credit to buy stocks, so I'm pretty sure I'm right that it doesn't apply to a standard cash loan backed by OIF shares.

Are you absolutely certain it doesn't say 🤔... it really ought to be in there, because margin calls definitely happen with fund-based loans if they drop past a certain threshold... I think it was something like 1.07, but I can't say for sure without double-checking.
nimbleorca21 nimbleorca21 Member
10 messages
joined Jan 2008
#51 ·
George Phillips;12863966 said:I went back and read through the loan agreement again—specifically the one for the fund share Lombard loan—and I honestly don't see any mention of a margin call anywhere.
If that Lombard loan was set up a few months back, it's actually pretty easy to see why they wouldn't mention a margin call. I mean, I guess a good chunk of our fund managers didn't even realize that fund share prices could actually drop in the first place.😁
Daniel Fisher72 Daniel Fisher72 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Feb 2008
#52 ·
Quick question: I don't currently have life insurance set up—but, well, now I’m looking into getting a loan. This Lombard option sounds pretty decent, but I was wondering... is it actually possible to sign up for life insurance and get the loan approved right away? Or am I stuck waiting around for a while before things move forward?
George Phillips George Phillips Member
48 messages
joined Jan 2009
#53 ·
Kimberly Nguyen said:Are you absolutely certain it doesn't say 🤔... it really ought to be in there, because margin calls definitely happen with fund-based loans if they drop past a certain threshold... I think it was something like 1.07, but I can't say for sure without double-checking.

100% sure 🙂 ... but there's this one part in the contract where it says "for anything not covered by this contract, the Bank of America General Terms and Conditions for consumers apply, along with other acts regulating consumer lending..." but honestly, that feels way too vague to me. I'd imagine they'd have to explicitly state how they handle things if a margin call actually happens right there in the contract.
George Phillips George Phillips Member
48 messages
joined Jan 2009
#54 ·
nimbleorca21 said:...if that collateral was set up a few months back, it's super easy to overlook a margin call. Honestly, a good chunk of our fund managers didn't even realize fund share prices could actually drop like that.😁

The contract was signed at Bank of America back in October 2007—basically right at the peak, you know, after things recovered from the ht-correction. I guess fluctuations in the share prices used as collateral would probably worry the creditors way more than the fund managers.
nimbleorca21 nimbleorca21 Member
10 messages
joined Jan 2008
#55 ·
I was being a little sarcastic there, but whatever... regardless, they should have clearly stated it was a margin call. If, like you say, it wasn't, then I guess that just means my sarcasm wasn't actually sarcasm after all. It's obvious those people at Bank of America didn't realize the fund value could actually drop below the loan amount. I bet they've updated their contracts by now.
George Phillips George Phillips Member
48 messages
joined Jan 2009
#56 ·
I guess the optimists (honestly, me too) 🙂 think the share value won't tank more than 30% from whatever it was when the loan contract was signed. So far, being hopeful has actually paid off—back when the peak hit in late 2007, the dip in early 2008 was only about 20% (from 223.81 to 178.26).

It’s always easy to look back after the dust settles and say, "Man, I should've just sold the shares instead of taking out a loan."

P.S. This whole thread feels super familiar now... I totally get why: it's basically the same as that Investment Funds/Loan for Investing... yes or no thread from post #859.
(I have no clue how you even link to a specific post 🤷)

link
Kimberly Nguyen Kimberly Nguyen Regular
543 messages
joined Jul 2009
#57 ·
@George Phillips
just click on the post number


link to the post
Daniel Fisher72 Daniel Fisher72 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Feb 2008
#58 ·
Daniel Fisher72 said:Quick question: I don't currently have life insurance set up—but, well, now I’m looking into getting a loan. This Lombard option sounds pretty decent, but I was wondering... is it actually possible to sign up for life insurance and get the loan approved right away? Or am I stuck waiting around for a while before things move forward?

Seriously though, why is nobody answering me?! Help a guy out here... pleeeease! THANKS! 🙏
Kimberly Nguyen Kimberly Nguyen Regular
543 messages
joined Jul 2009
#59 ·
Look, I don't think you can just walk in and snag a loan right away, considering the policy's surrender value doesn't even kick in until after 🤔 3 years ...
Kimberly Nguyen Kimberly Nguyen Regular
543 messages
joined Jul 2009
#60 ·
George Phillips said:I guess the optimists (honestly, me too) 🙂 think the share value won't tank more than 30% from whatever it was when the loan contract was signed. So far, being hopeful has actually paid off—back when the peak hit in late 2007, the dip in early 2008 was only about 20% (from 223.81 to 178.26).

It’s always easy to look back after the dust settles and say, "Man, I should've just sold the shares instead of taking out a loan."

P.S. This whole thread feels super familiar now... I totally get why: it's basically the same as that Investment Funds/Loan for Investing... yes or no thread from post #859.
(I have no clue how you even link to a specific post 🤷)

link

👋 👋

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