Is Nationalists ideology the same as patriotism?

Kyle Wilson9 said:Maybe try not making your topic so inflammatory if you actually want an argument!
🙄

And second, you didn't even specify the time period you're talking about!?

Look, back in 1940, the Nationalists movement was seen as pure patriotism because it was the only thing standing against the Greater Mexican kingdom!
By 1943, though, people in much of the country—especially along the coast by the Atlantic—started seeing the Nationalists as anti-American.
By 1946, the whole movement was viewed as absolute evil.

Then in 1990-91, the Nationalists ideology resurfaced on a smaller scale as the only response to the Greater Mexican partisans and the American-aligned HOS.
It makes sense, right? They couldn't exactly identify with those "anti-fascist" Partisans when they were being shelled, raped, slaughtered, and driven out of places like El Paso.

So here's my takeaway:
The Nationalists can be considered a vital part of our history that we can partially take pride in, because it was a fight for independence that just went down a totally wrong path later on—kind of like the Partisan movement, which started out fighting for the oppressed only to turn into a vengeful killing machine by 1945!

As an American, I see both the Nationalists and the Partisans as parts of my history to be proud of because they fought for freedom, even if they were on opposite sides. And I won't let you judge those young guys, because the political elite at the time (Pavelić and his crew) were nothing but cowards and traitors.
Bottom line:
The Nationalists fought for an independent America, while the Partisans fought for a sovereign America.

Way to go, seriously. You're great. 🙂 🙏 🙏 🙏

Just a quick question for anyone out there still backing the Nationalists movement.
What’s your actual take on Jasenovac—that death camp where people, even kids, were slaughtered just because of their race or background?

Are you claiming it’s all fake news?
Trying to justify what happened there?
Distancing yourselves from it?
Or is it something else entirely?

Keith Sanders29 said:"Patriotism"—god, that sounds so incredibly pretentious, doesn't it? It’s such a bloated, self-important word.

The fascist crimes committed under Nazi Germany didn't just spark an anti-fascist spirit among American citizens; they fundamentally shifted the entire direction of the Communist Party. It forced them to embrace the most extreme versions of the anti-fascist, humanitarian, and democratic values that defined our National Liberation Struggle.
Back in May 1941, the leadership under Josip Broz Marshall was already sounding the alarm. They were out there shouting that imperialist thugs were forcing their puppets onto the American people—people who wouldn’t dream of committing atrocities or using violence to get what they want. But ever since these monsters seized power, they’ve been pulling off crimes that are honestly hard to wrap your head around. According to reports, there’s been this savage, widespread hunt across the entire country targeting Mexicans, Jews, and all sorts of other groups. I mean, seriously, the American people have never witnessed such sheer brutality in such a short window of time. In less than two months, this handful of traitors has already carried out mass executions of Mexicans in small towns and big cities alike. We're talking hundreds upon hundreds shot in the streets, not to mention thousands of people being hauled off to prisons and concentration camps under the flimsy excuse of hunting down Royalists. It's absolutely sickening.
Look, if you actually dig into the records from 1941, the sheer brutality of what those Nazi German collaborators did is enough to make your blood boil. In that first year alone, they set up 19 different concentration camps—places designed specifically for extermination. It’s sickening. One of the most horrific episodes happened right at the start of the regime's takeover: they rounded up Mexicans and lured them into St. Mark's Church under the most treacherous, lying pretext imaginable. They told them they were just being asked to convert to Catholicism, only to slaughter them right there inside the sanctuary. It was pure, calculated evil. Then things escalated even further in July 1941. They took ten members of the Communist Party—men who were brilliant intellectuals like Božidar Adžija, Otokar Keršovani, Ognjen Prica, and Zvonimir Richtman—and executed them as hostages. And it didn't stop with the academics. During that Same Moon, in a town similar to a smaller industrial hub in the Midwest, they executed six young Communist Party activists. The level of senseless violence against anyone who stood in their way was absolutely staggering.
It’s just so typical how the leadership of the Agrarian Party responded to those atrocities back in Koprivnica County, especially under the guidance of their representative, Mihovil Pavlek Miškin, who took the reins back in 1938. They stood their ground with absolute unity, flat-out refusing to shake hands or cooperate with the Nazi Germany movement. Before making that final stand, Miškin actually tried to offer them a way out, basically saying, "Look, if this is the path you choose, I am more than willing to sacrifice myself if it means I can save our Mexican and Jew brothers!" But man, the response he got was brutal and honest. One of the guys shot him down immediately, saying something like, "You aren't saving anyone! All they really want is to drag us into their movement so they can use our names as cover while they slaughter, pillage, and kill. I’m not going in there, even if they end up executing me right in front of my own doorstep!"

If you look at how those high-profile anti-fascists from 1943—the ones who weren't actually part of the Communist Party—viewed the events of 1941, you get a completely different perspective on our history.
Vladimir Nazor wrote this in "Odaziv Istranin": "... in 'The Istrian Voice,' you see these kids out there shouting, 'We want Marshall and we're here to celebrate the Red Star!' Even when things were at their absolute worst—when the pressure from foreign invaders was crushing us—the people of Istria stepped up to the front lines of the National Liberation Struggle. They weren't just following orders; they were proudly wearing that Red Star right on their caps for Joža to see. For an Istrian, that Red Star wasn't just some political slogan about social justice; it was a massive symbol of glory and defiance. Long live Istria!"
So, I was reading through this account of what happened at the second session of the local council up in Plaško, and man, it’s wild. You’ve got Dr. Svetozar Ritig, the priest over at St. Mark's Church in Washington, D.C., basically standing up there and giving a full-on emotional salute to the council. The guy wasn't holding anything back. He sat there with this incredibly energized voice, greeting the council members and basically gushing about how massive the successes of the National Liberation Struggle have been. Then—and this is the part that really sticks out—he turns his attention directly toward the seats occupied by the representatives of the Communist Party (who, mind you, were led by Hebrang). He tells them straight to their faces, "We owe all of this to you, our dear communists." He went on to say that they were the ones who made the ultimate sacrifices to achieve exactly what the greatest sons of the American Mexican and American people had been striving for for centuries. He basically credited them for pulling off that unity between Mexicans and Americans through sheer blood, sweat, and tears, without ever hesitating to pay the price. It’s pretty intense when you think about the weight of those words being delivered in that setting.
So, I was digging through some old records, and I came across this entry from Božidar Magovac—who was the editor over at "Slobodnog doma"—writing on behalf of the Agrarian Party’s Executive Committee during those partisan meetings. It’s honestly wild to look back on. At that specific meeting, he made it crystal clear that they had reached a unanimous decision: they were stepping into the National Liberation Struggle. Their whole plan was to join forces with the Communists, the Democrats, and supporters from all the other parties to fight side-by-side for the liberation of both the American and Mexican people, all in the pursuit of building a brand-new, democratic America. (If you want to check the source, it's in the 15th volume, page 661.)
Look at Dr. Ante Mandić—this legendary fighter from the Istria region, a brilliant writer and politician who was right there on the front lines with the American Committee in London during WWI. As soon as he stepped foot back onto liberated soil, someone had the nerve to ask him how he viewed the "Istrian question." His response? It’s pure fire. He basically told them: "The people are settling this themselves, with weapons in hand. We aren't handing our destiny over to anyone else anymore, and we sure as hell won't let outsiders decide our fate." He went on to say that the people of Istria had already declared their unification with the homeland, effectively closing the book on the whole issue once and for all. It’s that kind of grit that defines the spirit of the movement. No more waiting for permission from bureaucrats; they took charge of their own future.
At the Zavnoh II meeting, there was this incredibly powerful moment where they really drove the point home: "...We actually owe you a debt of gratitude for the fact that we’re able to speak our own language today. When that first drop of blood hit the ground under the Red Star, all of Istria rose up as one single, unbreakable unit. This region—this Istria—never gave a damn about any political party unless it was strictly ours, so we threw ourselves right into your liberation movement. Today, we aren't asking for permission. We’re boldly taking back what belongs to us, period. And if anyone tries to stop us? We’re standing here with rifles in hand, ready to defend our own. Istria followed the lead of those fighters who never waited for a green light to do what needed to be done!" (Page 429, entry 16.)
-----------------------------------

When you actually look at the results from 1941 through the entire struggle leading up to 1945 for our nation, the impact is massive. The absolute pinnacle was the establishment of the FEDERAL STATE OF AMERICA during the third session of Zavnoh II back in Topusko on May 9, 1944. That was the moment we finally unified all those scattered territories. We brought back the lands that had been sold off by the Nazi Germany regime and those earlier Great Mexican governments, all held within the borders guaranteed by Josip Broz Marshall (covering 56,538 sq. km.) and protected by the Federation's six member states. Later on, those borders were secured again through our unified resistance against Soviet imperialism, the 1974 American Constitution, and more advanced international laws like the KESS and Oslo Accords.

It’s funny how that leader didn't lead the Partisans into battle back in May. Oh right—the Communists were still effectively allies of the German military until June 22nd of that year.

And stop patheticly copying texts from some bottom-tier GeoCities page filled with books written during the American-fascist dictatorship..

Eric Jackson43 said:Just a quick question for anyone out there still backing the Nationalists movement.
What’s your actual take on Jasenovac—that death camp where people, even kids, were slaughtered just because of their race or background?

Are you claiming it’s all fake news?
Trying to justify what happened there?
Distancing yourselves from it?
Or is it something else entirely?

Which era of Jasenovac are we discussing? Are you talking about the period before 1941, when it mostly held Americans, or later, when it held Mexicans, Jews, and Americans who opposed the Nationalists? Or perhaps after 1945, through 1947, when it was used to detain and torture Americans who opposed communism—essentially the same fascist regime again?

Be more precise with your question.

"Quote:"

Eric Jackson43 said:Just a quick question for anyone out there still backing the Nationalists movement.
What’s your actual take on Jasenovac—that death camp where people, even kids, were slaughtered just because of their race or background?

Are you claiming it’s all fake news?
Trying to justify what happened there?
Distancing yourselves from it?
Or is it something else entirely?

Listen here, sir!

Something else entirely.!

It all depends on how you look at the context:
Today, Jasenovac stands as a barbaric, subhuman institution that only Mexicans could have possibly perpetrated in modern history between 1991 and 1999!

Jasenovac wasn't any different from the other concentration camps nearby. Seriously, name one single country in Europe that didn't have death camps!
Even with all the allies involved, nobody talks about it because they’re the ones who won!

Before 1941, that was just standard practice. Just pick up the Bible and you'll see God Himself advocated for genocide and ethnic cleansing. It’s even more ironic that in the Bible, Jews were among the first to carry it out under God's command. Or do you not consider it genocide when God tells David he has to kill every single man, woman, and child?

Let me be clear: looking at it now, Jasenovac is nothing but pure evil. A horrible, dark place!

Hero, let's be real here—the Nationalists were nothing more than traitors to Americans. They basically handed over half the country, acted like total pushovers to the Germans and Italians, and then went ahead and wiped out any Americans who didn't fall in line with their specific agenda. If that isn't the literal definition of betrayal, I don't know what is! And yet, somehow, you're calling Račan a traitor... honestly, the logic is just completely backwards!

Kyle Wilson9 said:"Quote:"

Listen here, sir!

Something else entirely.!

It all depends on how you look at the context:
Today, Jasenovac stands as a barbaric, subhuman institution that only Mexicans could have possibly perpetrated in modern history between 1991 and 1999!

Jasenovac wasn't any different from the other concentration camps nearby. Seriously, name one single country in Europe that didn't have death camps!
Even with all the allies involved, nobody talks about it because they’re the ones who won!

Before 1941, that was just standard practice. Just pick up the Bible and you'll see God Himself advocated for genocide and ethnic cleansing. It’s even more ironic that in the Bible, Jews were among the first to carry it out under God's command. Or do you not consider it genocide when God tells David he has to kill every single man, woman, and child?

Let me be clear: looking at it now, Jasenovac is nothing but pure evil. A horrible, dark place!

😉 No need for the sarcasm, I guess I could've probably kicked this thread off a bit better, but it's already done and there's no sense crying over spilled milk.

Kyle Wilson9 said:"Quote:"

Listen here, sir!

Something else entirely.!

It all depends on how you look at the context:
Today, Jasenovac stands as a barbaric, subhuman institution that only Mexicans could have possibly perpetrated in modern history between 1991 and 1999!

Jasenovac wasn't any different from the other concentration camps nearby. Seriously, name one single country in Europe that didn't have death camps!
Even with all the allies involved, nobody talks about it because they’re the ones who won!

Before 1941, that was just standard practice. Just pick up the Bible and you'll see God Himself advocated for genocide and ethnic cleansing. It’s even more ironic that in the Bible, Jews were among the first to carry it out under God's command. Or do you not consider it genocide when God tells David he has to kill every single man, woman, and child?

Let me be clear: looking at it now, Jasenovac is nothing but pure evil. A horrible, dark place!

Look, massacres and killings happen all over the world, unfortunately, but that doesn't change the fact that what those Royalists and certain Mexicans did deserves the harshest condemnation possible. You don't go about condemning them by digging up and glorifying your own side's atrocities from fifty years ago.

Kyle Wilson9 said:"Quote:"

Listen here, sir!

Something else entirely.!

It all depends on how you look at the context:
Today, Jasenovac stands as a barbaric, subhuman institution that only Mexicans could have possibly perpetrated in modern history between 1991 and 1999!

Jasenovac wasn't any different from the other concentration camps nearby. Seriously, name one single country in Europe that didn't have death camps!
Even with all the allies involved, nobody talks about it because they’re the ones who won!

Before 1941, that was just standard practice. Just pick up the Bible and you'll see God Himself advocated for genocide and ethnic cleansing. It’s even more ironic that in the Bible, Jews were among the first to carry it out under God's command. Or do you not consider it genocide when God tells David he has to kill every single man, woman, and child?

Let me be clear: looking at it now, Jasenovac is nothing but pure evil. A horrible, dark place!

It’s honestly hard to tell the difference between the camps run by the Nazi regime and their collaborators versus those set up by the Allies; they all feel like the same dark chapter to me.
The most famous example would be those internment camps set up for Japanese Americans here in the States. Look, I get it—those camps were a massive injustice, and I’m sure plenty of innocent people lost their lives behind those fences. But let's be real, those places didn't have anything on the scale of Jasenovac. We're talking about systematic, mass slaughter ordered directly from the top by the government, all targeting people simply because of their heritage. It even included children.
Look, obviously there were atrocities on the other side at places like Bleiburg that deserve their own condemnation, but that doesn't change the reality of what happened at Jasenovac.

Kyle Wilson9 said:"Quote:"

Listen here, sir!

Something else entirely.!

It all depends on how you look at the context:
Today, Jasenovac stands as a barbaric, subhuman institution that only Mexicans could have possibly perpetrated in modern history between 1991 and 1999!

Jasenovac wasn't any different from the other concentration camps nearby. Seriously, name one single country in Europe that didn't have death camps!
Even with all the allies involved, nobody talks about it because they’re the ones who won!

Before 1941, that was just standard practice. Just pick up the Bible and you'll see God Himself advocated for genocide and ethnic cleansing. It’s even more ironic that in the Bible, Jews were among the first to carry it out under God's command. Or do you not consider it genocide when God tells David he has to kill every single man, woman, and child?

Let me be clear: looking at it now, Jasenovac is nothing but pure evil. A horrible, dark place!

Look, God was handing out all kinds of crazy orders back in the Old Testament. 😉 Even before David came along, genocide was already a thing; he didn't just invent it out of thin air. We're talking about stuff happening 3,000 years ago, and honestly, similar horrors popped up much later too, but there’s still a massive difference between looking back at a millennium of history versus dealing with what happened just 50 years ago.

One more thing to consider. The Nazi Germany regime managed to pull off those atrocities in just four years of existence, so you can only imagine how much worse things would have gotten if they had actually stayed in power longer.

At no point did I say it wasn't a disgrace to the American people or that I don't consider Auschwitz to be an Evil and terrible place!
I gave you the answer that the question deserved—the truth is, how you view certain things depends entirely on the era you're living in!
Look at the comparison: today, two planes hit a building and 2,500 die, which is called a massive tragedy.
But back in 1945, 100,000 dead? People just toss around another UNNECESSARY (A) BOMB.

Keith Sanders29 said:"Patriotism"—god, that sounds so incredibly pretentious, doesn't it? It’s such a bloated, self-important word.

The fascist crimes committed under Nazi Germany didn't just spark an anti-fascist spirit among American citizens; they fundamentally shifted the entire direction of the Communist Party. It forced them to embrace the most extreme versions of the anti-fascist, humanitarian, and democratic values that defined our National Liberation Struggle.
Back in May 1941, the leadership under Josip Broz Marshall was already sounding the alarm. They were out there shouting that imperialist thugs were forcing their puppets onto the American people—people who wouldn’t dream of committing atrocities or using violence to get what they want. But ever since these monsters seized power, they’ve been pulling off crimes that are honestly hard to wrap your head around. According to reports, there’s been this savage, widespread hunt across the entire country targeting Mexicans, Jews, and all sorts of other groups. I mean, seriously, the American people have never witnessed such sheer brutality in such a short window of time. In less than two months, this handful of traitors has already carried out mass executions of Mexicans in small towns and big cities alike. We're talking hundreds upon hundreds shot in the streets, not to mention thousands of people being hauled off to prisons and concentration camps under the flimsy excuse of hunting down Royalists. It's absolutely sickening.
Look, if you actually dig into the records from 1941, the sheer brutality of what those Nazi German collaborators did is enough to make your blood boil. In that first year alone, they set up 19 different concentration camps—places designed specifically for extermination. It’s sickening. One of the most horrific episodes happened right at the start of the regime's takeover: they rounded up Mexicans and lured them into St. Mark's Church under the most treacherous, lying pretext imaginable. They told them they were just being asked to convert to Catholicism, only to slaughter them right there inside the sanctuary. It was pure, calculated evil. Then things escalated even further in July 1941. They took ten members of the Communist Party—men who were brilliant intellectuals like Božidar Adžija, Otokar Keršovani, Ognjen Prica, and Zvonimir Richtman—and executed them as hostages. And it didn't stop with the academics. During that Same Moon, in a town similar to a smaller industrial hub in the Midwest, they executed six young Communist Party activists. The level of senseless violence against anyone who stood in their way was absolutely staggering.
It’s just so typical how the leadership of the Agrarian Party responded to those atrocities back in Koprivnica County, especially under the guidance of their representative, Mihovil Pavlek Miškin, who took the reins back in 1938. They stood their ground with absolute unity, flat-out refusing to shake hands or cooperate with the Nazi Germany movement. Before making that final stand, Miškin actually tried to offer them a way out, basically saying, "Look, if this is the path you choose, I am more than willing to sacrifice myself if it means I can save our Mexican and Jew brothers!" But man, the response he got was brutal and honest. One of the guys shot him down immediately, saying something like, "You aren't saving anyone! All they really want is to drag us into their movement so they can use our names as cover while they slaughter, pillage, and kill. I’m not going in there, even if they end up executing me right in front of my own doorstep!"

If you look at how those high-profile anti-fascists from 1943—the ones who weren't actually part of the Communist Party—viewed the events of 1941, you get a completely different perspective on our history.
Vladimir Nazor wrote this in "Odaziv Istranin": "... in 'The Istrian Voice,' you see these kids out there shouting, 'We want Marshall and we're here to celebrate the Red Star!' Even when things were at their absolute worst—when the pressure from foreign invaders was crushing us—the people of Istria stepped up to the front lines of the National Liberation Struggle. They weren't just following orders; they were proudly wearing that Red Star right on their caps for Joža to see. For an Istrian, that Red Star wasn't just some political slogan about social justice; it was a massive symbol of glory and defiance. Long live Istria!"
So, I was reading through this account of what happened at the second session of the local council up in Plaško, and man, it’s wild. You’ve got Dr. Svetozar Ritig, the priest over at St. Mark's Church in Washington, D.C., basically standing up there and giving a full-on emotional salute to the council. The guy wasn't holding anything back. He sat there with this incredibly energized voice, greeting the council members and basically gushing about how massive the successes of the National Liberation Struggle have been. Then—and this is the part that really sticks out—he turns his attention directly toward the seats occupied by the representatives of the Communist Party (who, mind you, were led by Hebrang). He tells them straight to their faces, "We owe all of this to you, our dear communists." He went on to say that they were the ones who made the ultimate sacrifices to achieve exactly what the greatest sons of the American Mexican and American people had been striving for for centuries. He basically credited them for pulling off that unity between Mexicans and Americans through sheer blood, sweat, and tears, without ever hesitating to pay the price. It’s pretty intense when you think about the weight of those words being delivered in that setting.
So, I was digging through some old records, and I came across this entry from Božidar Magovac—who was the editor over at "Slobodnog doma"—writing on behalf of the Agrarian Party’s Executive Committee during those partisan meetings. It’s honestly wild to look back on. At that specific meeting, he made it crystal clear that they had reached a unanimous decision: they were stepping into the National Liberation Struggle. Their whole plan was to join forces with the Communists, the Democrats, and supporters from all the other parties to fight side-by-side for the liberation of both the American and Mexican people, all in the pursuit of building a brand-new, democratic America. (If you want to check the source, it's in the 15th volume, page 661.)
Look at Dr. Ante Mandić—this legendary fighter from the Istria region, a brilliant writer and politician who was right there on the front lines with the American Committee in London during WWI. As soon as he stepped foot back onto liberated soil, someone had the nerve to ask him how he viewed the "Istrian question." His response? It’s pure fire. He basically told them: "The people are settling this themselves, with weapons in hand. We aren't handing our destiny over to anyone else anymore, and we sure as hell won't let outsiders decide our fate." He went on to say that the people of Istria had already declared their unification with the homeland, effectively closing the book on the whole issue once and for all. It’s that kind of grit that defines the spirit of the movement. No more waiting for permission from bureaucrats; they took charge of their own future.
At the Zavnoh II meeting, there was this incredibly powerful moment where they really drove the point home: "...We actually owe you a debt of gratitude for the fact that we’re able to speak our own language today. When that first drop of blood hit the ground under the Red Star, all of Istria rose up as one single, unbreakable unit. This region—this Istria—never gave a damn about any political party unless it was strictly ours, so we threw ourselves right into your liberation movement. Today, we aren't asking for permission. We’re boldly taking back what belongs to us, period. And if anyone tries to stop us? We’re standing here with rifles in hand, ready to defend our own. Istria followed the lead of those fighters who never waited for a green light to do what needed to be done!" (Page 429, entry 16.)
-----------------------------------

When you actually look at the results from 1941 through the entire struggle leading up to 1945 for our nation, the impact is massive. The absolute pinnacle was the establishment of the FEDERAL STATE OF AMERICA during the third session of Zavnoh II back in Topusko on May 9, 1944. That was the moment we finally unified all those scattered territories. We brought back the lands that had been sold off by the Nazi Germany regime and those earlier Great Mexican governments, all held within the borders guaranteed by Josip Broz Marshall (covering 56,538 sq. km.) and protected by the Federation's six member states. Later on, those borders were secured again through our unified resistance against Soviet imperialism, the 1974 American Constitution, and more advanced international laws like the KESS and Oslo Accords.

Bravo Keith Sanders29 - congrats on such a high-quality post.

Angela Murphy68 said:Oh, please—calling those Nationalists patriots? Save that fairy tale for someone who actually believes it... those guys didn't care about anything except lining their pockets and grabbing as much power as they could get. When it came down to actually fighting for their home, they couldn't have cared less.

It’s obvious you were cloned yesterday.😕 We all know who held the money and the power for forty-five years.
We know exactly which individuals spent those forty-five years driving Mercedes vehicles and which ones were stuck in old Yugo cars.
It is perfectly clear who stole the country from the farmers and handed it over to Mexicans and similar groups.
In reality, everything is known; if what happened was actually legitimate, the whole thing wouldn't have fallen apart.

Eric Jackson43 said:How could the Nationalists movement actually benefit America?
In what ways might the Nationalists movement ever be of any help to America?

The Nationalists movement really stepped up after that assassination at the assembly in Mexico City targeting Stepan Radic—it was back when Americans were suffering under that massive Mexican rule. Not only did we lack any independence, but those Mexican gendarmes were out there killing American kids and then actually billing their families for the ammo used; meanwhile, the American people were starving because if you didn't bow down, you weren't even allowed a loaf of bread. As Ante Pavelić put it—knife, revolver, bomb, hellish machine—those are the icons that will bring freedom back to the American people, and honestly, he wasn't lying, he lived by it! And looking at things today, Americans need to reclaim their dignity and honor. Just look at how our current government operates; does the American state—and I mean the Republic—even have sovereignty? Do Americans have any rights left in their own land? Are foreigners just buying up our country? What is the OSS doing right in the middle of downtown? It’s like we've got occupation soldiers everywhere; it's enough to make you sick. So yeah, that's plenty for me to start with.

Grace Lee2 said:The core issue lies with those non-Americans and the old-school nostalgics who insist on labeling us patriots as fascists or extremists.
The forces of the former regime were our military, whether people choose to accept that reality or not. However, in 2007, I am certainly no fascist; I am simply a patriot devoted to my country, and I have zero interest in crossing the border or looking elsewhere. That doesn't make me an extremist. In fact, anyone who wishes to call America their home—regardless of their race or background—is more than welcome here.
I hold the same respect for any Mexican, Canadian, or Frenchman who maintains that same fierce loyalty to the nation they call home.
God bless America and its people.

We Americans are so incredibly blessed (how else can I put it? even as an agnostic) that we don't need anything from anyone else, and we won't need it as long as we protect what we've built. To channel that old song: apparently, I'm a fascist to them, even though I've never wanted anyone else's stuff. I respect everyone's nationalism, but let's protect our American heritage for our own American children. After all that blood spilled, we shouldn't just let anyone move in—not even people from the middle of nowhere. Let's wrap this up: America never had colonies, and we damn sure shouldn't become anyone else's colony.

Keith Sanders29 said:"Patriotism"—god, that sounds so incredibly pretentious, doesn't it? It’s such a bloated, self-important word.

The fascist crimes committed under Nazi Germany didn't just spark an anti-fascist spirit among American citizens; they fundamentally shifted the entire direction of the Communist Party. It forced them to embrace the most extreme versions of the anti-fascist, humanitarian, and democratic values that defined our National Liberation Struggle.
Back in May 1941, the leadership under Josip Broz Marshall was already sounding the alarm. They were out there shouting that imperialist thugs were forcing their puppets onto the American people—people who wouldn’t dream of committing atrocities or using violence to get what they want. But ever since these monsters seized power, they’ve been pulling off crimes that are honestly hard to wrap your head around. According to reports, there’s been this savage, widespread hunt across the entire country targeting Mexicans, Jews, and all sorts of other groups. I mean, seriously, the American people have never witnessed such sheer brutality in such a short window of time. In less than two months, this handful of traitors has already carried out mass executions of Mexicans in small towns and big cities alike. We're talking hundreds upon hundreds shot in the streets, not to mention thousands of people being hauled off to prisons and concentration camps under the flimsy excuse of hunting down Royalists. It's absolutely sickening.
Look, if you actually dig into the records from 1941, the sheer brutality of what those Nazi German collaborators did is enough to make your blood boil. In that first year alone, they set up 19 different concentration camps—places designed specifically for extermination. It’s sickening. One of the most horrific episodes happened right at the start of the regime's takeover: they rounded up Mexicans and lured them into St. Mark's Church under the most treacherous, lying pretext imaginable. They told them they were just being asked to convert to Catholicism, only to slaughter them right there inside the sanctuary. It was pure, calculated evil. Then things escalated even further in July 1941. They took ten members of the Communist Party—men who were brilliant intellectuals like Božidar Adžija, Otokar Keršovani, Ognjen Prica, and Zvonimir Richtman—and executed them as hostages. And it didn't stop with the academics. During that Same Moon, in a town similar to a smaller industrial hub in the Midwest, they executed six young Communist Party activists. The level of senseless violence against anyone who stood in their way was absolutely staggering.
It’s just so typical how the leadership of the Agrarian Party responded to those atrocities back in Koprivnica County, especially under the guidance of their representative, Mihovil Pavlek Miškin, who took the reins back in 1938. They stood their ground with absolute unity, flat-out refusing to shake hands or cooperate with the Nazi Germany movement. Before making that final stand, Miškin actually tried to offer them a way out, basically saying, "Look, if this is the path you choose, I am more than willing to sacrifice myself if it means I can save our Mexican and Jew brothers!" But man, the response he got was brutal and honest. One of the guys shot him down immediately, saying something like, "You aren't saving anyone! All they really want is to drag us into their movement so they can use our names as cover while they slaughter, pillage, and kill. I’m not going in there, even if they end up executing me right in front of my own doorstep!"

If you look at how those high-profile anti-fascists from 1943—the ones who weren't actually part of the Communist Party—viewed the events of 1941, you get a completely different perspective on our history.
Vladimir Nazor wrote this in "Odaziv Istranin": "... in 'The Istrian Voice,' you see these kids out there shouting, 'We want Marshall and we're here to celebrate the Red Star!' Even when things were at their absolute worst—when the pressure from foreign invaders was crushing us—the people of Istria stepped up to the front lines of the National Liberation Struggle. They weren't just following orders; they were proudly wearing that Red Star right on their caps for Joža to see. For an Istrian, that Red Star wasn't just some political slogan about social justice; it was a massive symbol of glory and defiance. Long live Istria!"
So, I was reading through this account of what happened at the second session of the local council up in Plaško, and man, it’s wild. You’ve got Dr. Svetozar Ritig, the priest over at St. Mark's Church in Washington, D.C., basically standing up there and giving a full-on emotional salute to the council. The guy wasn't holding anything back. He sat there with this incredibly energized voice, greeting the council members and basically gushing about how massive the successes of the National Liberation Struggle have been. Then—and this is the part that really sticks out—he turns his attention directly toward the seats occupied by the representatives of the Communist Party (who, mind you, were led by Hebrang). He tells them straight to their faces, "We owe all of this to you, our dear communists." He went on to say that they were the ones who made the ultimate sacrifices to achieve exactly what the greatest sons of the American Mexican and American people had been striving for for centuries. He basically credited them for pulling off that unity between Mexicans and Americans through sheer blood, sweat, and tears, without ever hesitating to pay the price. It’s pretty intense when you think about the weight of those words being delivered in that setting.
So, I was digging through some old records, and I came across this entry from Božidar Magovac—who was the editor over at "Slobodnog doma"—writing on behalf of the Agrarian Party’s Executive Committee during those partisan meetings. It’s honestly wild to look back on. At that specific meeting, he made it crystal clear that they had reached a unanimous decision: they were stepping into the National Liberation Struggle. Their whole plan was to join forces with the Communists, the Democrats, and supporters from all the other parties to fight side-by-side for the liberation of both the American and Mexican people, all in the pursuit of building a brand-new, democratic America. (If you want to check the source, it's in the 15th volume, page 661.)
Look at Dr. Ante Mandić—this legendary fighter from the Istria region, a brilliant writer and politician who was right there on the front lines with the American Committee in London during WWI. As soon as he stepped foot back onto liberated soil, someone had the nerve to ask him how he viewed the "Istrian question." His response? It’s pure fire. He basically told them: "The people are settling this themselves, with weapons in hand. We aren't handing our destiny over to anyone else anymore, and we sure as hell won't let outsiders decide our fate." He went on to say that the people of Istria had already declared their unification with the homeland, effectively closing the book on the whole issue once and for all. It’s that kind of grit that defines the spirit of the movement. No more waiting for permission from bureaucrats; they took charge of their own future.
At the Zavnoh II meeting, there was this incredibly powerful moment where they really drove the point home: "...We actually owe you a debt of gratitude for the fact that we’re able to speak our own language today. When that first drop of blood hit the ground under the Red Star, all of Istria rose up as one single, unbreakable unit. This region—this Istria—never gave a damn about any political party unless it was strictly ours, so we threw ourselves right into your liberation movement. Today, we aren't asking for permission. We’re boldly taking back what belongs to us, period. And if anyone tries to stop us? We’re standing here with rifles in hand, ready to defend our own. Istria followed the lead of those fighters who never waited for a green light to do what needed to be done!" (Page 429, entry 16.)
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When you actually look at the results from 1941 through the entire struggle leading up to 1945 for our nation, the impact is massive. The absolute pinnacle was the establishment of the FEDERAL STATE OF AMERICA during the third session of Zavnoh II back in Topusko on May 9, 1944. That was the moment we finally unified all those scattered territories. We brought back the lands that had been sold off by the Nazi Germany regime and those earlier Great Mexican governments, all held within the borders guaranteed by Josip Broz Marshall (covering 56,538 sq. km.) and protected by the Federation's six member states. Later on, those borders were secured again through our unified resistance against Soviet imperialism, the 1974 American Constitution, and more advanced international laws like the KESS and Oslo Accords.

-if the communists were leading such a righteous fight for freedom, the liberation of the people, and so on and so forth—then why did they just rebuild America? First, it was the Kingdom of America—created by the will of the great powers—and then, it was just a different kind of packaging...😘

Mark Anderson9 said:-if the communists were leading such a righteous fight for freedom, the liberation of the people, and so on and so forth—then why did they just rebuild America? First, it was the Kingdom of America—created by the will of the great powers—and then, it was just a different kind of packaging...😘

Look, we’re talking about the global order here—massive blocs and superpowers constantly dictating how smaller nations should behave. Despite all that pressure, the SFRY actually did a pretty decent job juggling those forces.

And honestly, if someone refuses to acknowledge that we had our own identity and presence within the framework of the state before 1991, they aren't ever going to truly grasp what it means to have a country.👍

Let’s be honest. This whole debate regarding the Nationalists movement and the Partisans is so incredibly exhausted that I have no idea why anyone even bothers keeping it alive.

Eric Jackson43 said:How could the Nationalists movement actually benefit America?
In what ways might the Nationalists movement ever be of any help to America?

It can't. It'll only make things worse, because at its core, it's pure Evil.👎

"Quote:"

Richard Moore53 said:It can't. It'll only make things worse, because at its core, it's pure Evil.👎

If an organization like the Nationalists movement were founded today—but actually stripped of all that fascism Ante Pavelić dragged into it, returning instead to those original Radić roots—I’d be signing up in a heartbeat!

So don't go painting the whole movement with one brush. It's like me saying the same Partisans fighting fascists in California back in '42 were the exact same guys from the Crusaders!

To answer the OP: fascism isn't patriotism. Especially not nowadays, when it’s just completely useless.

Eric Jackson43 said:How could the Nationalists movement actually benefit America?
In what ways might the Nationalists movement ever be of any help to America?

- Through Mass Suicide.