High IQ and Narcissism: Fact or Fiction?

Lawrence Wells · 2007-05-07T16:47:52+00:00

Come on, people—let's hear it! Speak up!

neonmarlin56 Member

22 messages
joined Sep 2010

#41 · May 9, 2007

I honestly think we’re all narcissists at heart—even if it's just in tiny little ways—it's just that most people are too stubborn to admit it. Honestly, IQ isn't even the main issue here; maybe if people actually understood their own brains better, they'd stop acting so clueless. You can define intelligence in a million different ways, right? I'm not trying to flex or anything, but I took a few tests and scored well above average. Back in school, math and physics were basically a breeze for me, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I realized my real sweet spot was combining creativity with logic. So, I pivoted everything toward my career, and man, the results have been incredible—I'm totally in my element now. Plus, it's kind of wild how fast I can take an idea from my head and actually make it happen, which usually leaves everyone else pretty stunned.

William Gonzalez3 Regular

276 messages
joined May 2009

#42 · May 10, 2007

Anthony Bailey said:Maybe it’s because it's a total paradox—an oxymoron, really.
Someone who acts like they own the damn world and couldn't care less about anyone else is usually just a fragile little thing hiding underneath it all.
😁

Well, if you ask me, what you wrote there is an oxymoron, a paradox, and frankly, a bit contradictory.
A true leader—someone actually running the show—would probably care most about the state of the world. After all, if you're in charge, you have to ensure everything beneath you is functioning properly.

As for narcissists being sensitive creatures... I suppose that's almost a necessity.
Most narcissists tend to have an inflated sense of self.
They blow their own virtues out of proportion while hiding their flaws from everyone else—including themselves.
In other words, they're incredibly puffed up and vain; even a tiny needle of criticism directed at a flaw can cause that whole facade to shatter. That's usually when you see those intense reactions.

I mean, you really can't build anything substantial on a foundation of illusions.

The only thing I'm truly curious about is this: did narcissists become narcissists because they were sensitive, or did they become sensitive because they became narcissists?
To my mind, narcissism is essentially a defense mechanism—a pretty terrible one, at that—a form of self-delusion stemming from the fact that, deep down, the person was fundamentally insecure from the start. They deal with that insecurity and imperfection by simply denying every flaw and magnifying every virtue—essentially becoming narcissistic.
Which, I suppose, isn't the best way to handle it.
Personally, I took a much more effective route toward narcissism.
I exaggerated my virtues, sure, but then I started convincing everyone around me—and myself—that my flaws were actually virtues too.
That way, there's no longer any threat to my fragile ego.
🙂

William Gonzalez3 Regular

276 messages
joined May 2009

#43 · May 10, 2007

Lawrence Wells said:No way😘

Well, if it isn't actually life-threatening, then I guess it doesn't sound all that terrible to me.

Is narcissism even really a bad thing?
And if it is—well, what exactly is it that makes it so problematic?

Kyle Nelson2 Regular

475 messages
joined Jun 2008

#44 · May 10, 2007

crimsonhound80 said:Look, there's no need to apologize, but honestly, your argument mostly applies to artists —think painters, musicians, poets—who might be geniuses in their craft but end up completely unhinged due to excessive drinking, partying 😁 or an old-school addiction to opium followed by more modern narcotics. And let's be real, a person doesn't actually have to be highly intelligent just to be a good painter.

Forget all this talk about having seven or eight different types of intelligence; there’s really only one kind that’s actually been scientifically validated.

I think there are more than one, though...
I went through a psych evaluation once (over at Mayo Clinic), and the psychologist there put me through at least ten different sessions. We did all kinds of stuff—memory tests, spatial orientation, naming things, connecting concepts, all that. Out of those ten minimum tests, at least four of them were definitely measuring different types of intelligence (not counting the concentration or memory stuff, obviously)...

To be precise, she called them "cognitive abilities" in her report.

steelridge58 Regular

397 messages
joined Mar 2008

#45 · May 10, 2007

crimsonhound80 said:Look, there's no need to apologize, but honestly, your argument mostly applies to artists —think painters, musicians, poets—who might be geniuses in their craft but end up completely unhinged due to excessive drinking, partying 😁 or an old-school addiction to opium followed by more modern narcotics. And let's be real, a person doesn't actually have to be highly intelligent just to be a good painter.

Forget all this talk about having seven or eight different types of intelligence; there’s really only one kind that’s actually been scientifically validated.

Fair enough. 🙂 But honestly, saying that feels a bit like claiming humans are the only intelligent beings out there in space, which I just can't get behind. It seems more accurate to say that our current scientific methods simply rely on specific cognitive frameworks that allow us to pin down certain measurable values, even if they don't capture the whole picture.

brighteagle39 Active Member

80 messages
joined Feb 2007

#46 · May 10, 2007

steelridge58 said:Fair enough. 🙂 But honestly, saying that feels a bit like claiming humans are the only intelligent beings out there in space, which I just can't get behind. It seems more accurate to say that our current scientific methods simply rely on specific cognitive frameworks that allow us to pin down certain measurable values, even if they don't capture the whole picture.

Until there is definitive proof to the contrary, we can't rule out the possibility that we aren't the only intelligent life in outer space.

Gerald Rivera60 Active Member

129 messages
joined Feb 2007

#47 · May 10, 2007

brighteagle39 said:Until there is definitive proof to the contrary, we can't rule out the possibility that we aren't the only intelligent life in outer space.

So, you're suggesting animals aren't intelligent...
But let's not get bogged down in defining intelligence or discussing population numbers. Those metrics are inherently arbitrary and relative.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is heavily influenced by cultural surroundings. This implies that in collectivist societies, the link to intelligence might not be as strong as in individualistic ones. Then again, that's debatable; if an entire society is narcissistic, or conversely, if no one is, the correlation vanishes.
Ultimately, I doubt there is any universal trend at play here, even if one exists.
Narcissists are defined by an inflated sense of their own abilities, knowledge, and achievements, regardless of whether those claims hold water. When reality contradicts their self-perception, they typically rationalize it by claiming the environment is against them or that others are intentionally sabotaging their success.
It is also possible to have a combination of narcissistic disorder and other personality disorders.
For example, consider how someone would behave if they possessed both narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders.

brighteagle39 Active Member

80 messages
joined Feb 2007

#48 · May 10, 2007

Gerald Rivera60 said:So, you're suggesting animals aren't intelligent...
But let's not get bogged down in defining intelligence or discussing population numbers. Those metrics are inherently arbitrary and relative.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is heavily influenced by cultural surroundings. This implies that in collectivist societies, the link to intelligence might not be as strong as in individualistic ones. Then again, that's debatable; if an entire society is narcissistic, or conversely, if no one is, the correlation vanishes.
Ultimately, I doubt there is any universal trend at play here, even if one exists.
Narcissists are defined by an inflated sense of their own abilities, knowledge, and achievements, regardless of whether those claims hold water. When reality contradicts their self-perception, they typically rationalize it by claiming the environment is against them or that others are intentionally sabotaging their success.
It is also possible to have a combination of narcissistic disorder and other personality disorders.
For example, consider how someone would behave if they possessed both narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders.

What exactly are you trying to convey with this post? Are you arguing that animals are intelligent creatures? That they possess a capacity for reason similar to our own?
Your opening sentence seems completely disconnected from the rest of your argument, mostly because I highly doubt the latter portion is your own original thought. If you are pulling excerpts from a textbook or a specific author, please at least have the courtesy to cite them.

hiddentrucker16 Active Member

123 messages
joined Oct 2006

#49 · May 10, 2007

Well, my dear people, please allow me to serve as a prime example of an unintelligent narcissist😂 🤣 and since I lack even a modicum of intelligence myself😂 🤣 then—strictly speaking—I shouldn't even attempt to diagnose whether I am indeed a narcissist... though, truth be told, I can hardly contain my laughter at the absurdity of it all. Go ahead, you brilliant minds, tell me: why exactly do I suffer from this persistent complex that I am simply dim-witted? I might just burst from laughing...

James Allen6 Active Member

85 messages
joined Apr 2007

#50 · May 10, 2007

hiddentrucker16, I was sitting right in the middle of a lecture at college today when I suddenly remembered those little characters of yours—the ones that are constantly dying of laughter and those rigid figures that just won't stop vomiting. I started laughing so hard... 🙂 🙂 🙂
You're right, I'm feeling a bit better today, I guess. Thanks for the sympathy!

neonmarlin56 Member

22 messages
joined Sep 2010

#51 · May 10, 2007

It’s mostly just because all those idiots surrounding you keep trying to convince you that you aren't smart.🙂

hiddentrucker16 Active Member

123 messages
joined Oct 2006

#52 · May 10, 2007

James Allen6 said:hiddentrucker16, I was sitting right in the middle of a lecture at college today when I suddenly remembered those little characters of yours—the ones that are constantly dying of laughter and those rigid figures that just won't stop vomiting. I started laughing so hard... 🙂 🙂 🙂
You're right, I'm feeling a bit better today, I guess. Thanks for the sympathy!

What exactly triggered the memory?😘 Ha ha ha... here is your troll 😂 And apparently, I’ve gone and sent you into a total hysterical fit... it seems you've already reverted to your old ways regarding anxiety 👍 That's actually the way to do it—chase away the sadness and the depression... here, have another one 👍 Stupid depression, now I'm going to be sick 🙂

hiddentrucker16 Active Member

123 messages
joined Oct 2006

#53 · May 10, 2007

Quincy:

neonmarlin56 As specified by brighteagle39:
It is simply because the fools surrounding you—those who insist on whispering their nonsense in your ear—have successfully convinced you that you are lacking in intellect.🙂

Let’s be honest—we aren't going to lie to ourselves this time...🙂 It has been officially established—with scientific certainty, no less—that I am quite simply lacking in the intelligence department. It’s a verified fact... and frankly, science itself is starting to become a source of significant frustration for me. Okay?

mistybison Regular

495 messages
joined Aug 2008

#54 · May 10, 2007

William Gonzalez3 said:Well, if it isn't actually life-threatening, then I guess it doesn't sound all that terrible to me.

Is narcissism even really a bad thing?
And if it is—well, what exactly is it that makes it so problematic?

It can become an issue if it evolves into Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Otherwise, I wouldn't assume people with high IQs are inherently narcissists. A person must possess a natural predisposition toward narcissism; a high IQ simply provides them with better tools to construct an inflated self-image. To a narcissist, anything can serve as fuel to feel "superior" to others, and if they lack any actual merit, they will quite easily invent it. 😉

Harold Adams5 Active Member

102 messages
joined Feb 2008

#55 · May 10, 2007

Gerald Rivera60 said:So, you're suggesting animals aren't intelligent...
But let's not get bogged down in defining intelligence or discussing population numbers. Those metrics are inherently arbitrary and relative.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is heavily influenced by cultural surroundings. This implies that in collectivist societies, the link to intelligence might not be as strong as in individualistic ones. Then again, that's debatable; if an entire society is narcissistic, or conversely, if no one is, the correlation vanishes.
Ultimately, I doubt there is any universal trend at play here, even if one exists.
Narcissists are defined by an inflated sense of their own abilities, knowledge, and achievements, regardless of whether those claims hold water. When reality contradicts their self-perception, they typically rationalize it by claiming the environment is against them or that others are intentionally sabotaging their success.
It is also possible to have a combination of narcissistic disorder and other personality disorders.
For example, consider how someone would behave if they possessed both narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders.

👍
Narcissistic disorder usually carries its own built-in dose of asocial behavior.
They only hang out with people who worship them or help them climb the ladder; everyone else is just dead weight.
Then, if they ever suffer a humiliating fall from grace, the antisocial traits kick in and completely take over.

Harold Adams5 Active Member

102 messages
joined Feb 2008

#56 · May 10, 2007

mistybison said:It can become an issue if it evolves into Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Otherwise, I wouldn't assume people with high IQs are inherently narcissists. A person must possess a natural predisposition toward narcissism; a high IQ simply provides them with better tools to construct an inflated self-image. To a narcissist, anything can serve as fuel to feel "superior" to others, and if they lack any actual merit, they will quite easily invent it. 😉

I'm with you on that.🙂
I don't see any direct link or cause-and-effect here...

but let's be honest, pairing a high IQ with a healthy dose of narcissism
is basically a recipe for success. 😉

crimsonhound80 Active Member

175 messages
joined Mar 2008

#57 · May 10, 2007

Kyle Nelson2 said:I think there are more than one, though...
I went through a psych evaluation once (over at Mayo Clinic), and the psychologist there put me through at least ten different sessions. We did all kinds of stuff—memory tests, spatial orientation, naming things, connecting concepts, all that. Out of those ten minimum tests, at least four of them were definitely measuring different types of intelligence (not counting the concentration or memory stuff, obviously)...

To be precise, she called them "cognitive abilities" in her report.

In your case, for example, they probably ran the LBG test for visual-motor coordination and perception, the Cornell test, the EPQ questionnaire, or a PIE emotional profile. But—and this is important—none of those tests actually measure an IQ score. Instead, they determine things like impulsivity, compulsiveness, general neuroticism, social introversion, whether you have psychosomatic reactions to stress, inadequacy, latent aggression, or even deep-seated mistrustness, and so on.

So, basically, most of those tests that people claim are meant to assess cognitive abilities are actually just unmasking your personality traits—basically looking for potential anomalies—but they aren't measuring intelligence at all.

Intelligence is simple; it’s just 1+1=2 and you're done. Yet nowadays, everyone tries to push these ideas of "sporting intelligence," where someone like Cristiano Ronaldo might be an incredibly talented athlete, but talent doesn't equate to intelligence.

It's the same thing with career criminals; a long-term offender can easily surprise you with their "emotional intelligence"—meaning, they might be as dim as a broken bulb 😁, but they are masters at reading people's behavior and act like expert psychologists (they have the talent, or perhaps they've just honed it over time).😛

James Allen6 Active Member

85 messages
joined Apr 2007

#58 · May 10, 2007

😂

hiddentrucker16 said:What exactly triggered the memory?😘 Ha ha ha... here is your troll 😂 And apparently, I’ve gone and sent you into a total hysterical fit... it seems you've already reverted to your old ways regarding anxiety 👍 That's actually the way to do it—chase away the sadness and the depression... here, have another one 👍 Stupid depression, now I'm going to be sick 🙂

well, you made me laugh again with that part about throwing up 😛
I guess I celebrated too early. The day was actually pleasant, but not for long..... I seem to be so sensitive lately that I can't believe how much things can hurt me on a daily basis.... it feels like stress is just waiting around the corner for me...... and then the depression grabs hold, then the nausea hits, and then that feeling that I'm going to 🤮 well, I just let it all out now 😂 I wonder what else I am supposed to learn from you.....😘

Laura Mendoza Active Member

132 messages
joined Feb 2008

#59 · May 10, 2007

Yet another ridiculous study...😠

Since I have a high IQ, I possess all the typical traits—except for narcissism and everything else that usually comes with it. In my view, those personality quirks depend on the individual rather than being a direct byproduct of intelligence...

restlesshound27 Member

36 messages
joined Dec 2006

#60 · May 10, 2007

David Nelson74 said:That’s just not true. My IQ is 84, which is well below average, yet somehow I’m still being accused of narcissism.

🤣🤣🤣

High IQ and Narcissism: Fact or Fiction?

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