Are Indians lazy?

swiftscout8 said:Indians are total amateurs. God forbid you deal with them. First, they lure you in with all these slick marketing gimmicks, and by the time you realize you've been played, the damage is already done... You can try to shield yourself with every legal loophole and contract under the sun, but once the trap snaps, there's no going back. By the time you figure out they sold you a beat-up old Ford when you thought you were getting a Mercedes, it's way too late.

Look, I’ve tried working with individuals or companies from India about ten different times now. My takeaway—and yeah, this is just my personal experience on a small scale—is that the work quality ranges from "bad" to "completely useless." Honestly? It's better to just ghost any firm the second I see they're based in India. It's just not worth the headache.

On the flip side, I find top-tier talent in Romania, Russia, Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, the USA (yeah, outsourcing in the USA actually works; sure, they cost more, but they're incredibly efficient 👍), and occasionally even in China, Mauritius, etc.

goldenpuma10 said:If you want to know about their work ethic or actual skill level, just ask any employer if they’d be willing to pay an Indian engineer the same rate as a Western engineer. I mean, if they were truly equal in value and quality, why wouldn't anyone pay them the same?

But why even ask?
Because at the end of the day, capitalism is fundamentally about exploitation...

Look, a starting salary for an engineer in Switzerland is roughly $5,000... meanwhile, someone in India might pull in maybe $600—if they're lucky...

So then you come along and offer that guy $2,500... and of course he’s going to take the job. You’re offering him four times what he’d make back home. It's a no-brainer...

These are just rough numbers, obviously—just a ballpark idea of what a company would actually offer an Indian worker...

The reality is, both engineers can use Cat or whatever CAD software is standard... but the math doesn't lie.

goldenpuma10 said:....why not pay them at least as much as Western engineers

Because you don't have to.

Adam Collins4 said:Why do you ask?
Because the whole point of capitalism is exploitation...

An entry-level engineer in Switzerland makes about $5,000... while one in India might make $600... if they're lucky...

So when you offer him $2,500... of course he'll take it... you're offering him four times his worth...

These are just theoretical numbers, but that's roughly what an employer offers an Indian worker...

And both engineers know how to use Cat or some other CAD software...

Here’s a real-world example. I work as a C++ programmer for IBM. When we estimate a task will take us a month, the guys in India will confidently claim they can do it in four months. Then the manager comes along and says, "Yeah, but they're seven times cheaper than you guys." So, the job gets sent to India, and because they lie just to land the contract, it actually takes them five months. During user testing, a mountain of errors surfaces, which then gets dumped back on us—the "expensive" team—to fix, because the Indian team missed the core objective of the project. We end up spending three weeks fixing everything from scratch.
Then the manager walks in and says, "I don't get why you can't stay within budget. Next project is being fully outsourced to India." (He assumes we just did a mediocre job.)

goldenpuma10 said:Look, here’s a classic scenario. I’m working as a C++ dev at a big tech firm, and we’ll estimate a month to get something done. An Indian conglomerate? They’ll look us in the eye and swear they can knock it out in four months. Then the manager wanders in like, "Yeah, but they're seven times cheaper than you guys." So, the work gets sent over to India, takes five months because—let's face it—they lie just to land the contract, and then during user testing, the whole thing falls apart. It’s a disaster. All those bugs? They dump them right back on us—the "expensive" guys—to fix because the offshore team missed the entire point of the project. We spend three weeks cleaning up their mess, basically rebuilding half the thing from scratch.
Then the manager has the nerve to walk in and go, "I don't get why you guys can't stay within budget. Next project is going entirely to India." (As if we were the ones who botched the job.)

That’s pretty much how I see it. Sure, you can outsource the work, but you'll just end up paying to do the exact same thing all over again. 🙂

goldenpuma10 said:Look, let me give you a real-world example—I’m working as a C++ dev at a major tech firm—and what we estimate will take us a month, an Indian conglomerate will confidently claim they can knock out in four. Then the manager wanders in and goes, "Yeah, but they're seven times cheaper than you guys." So, the work gets shipped off to India, takes five months because—surprise, surprise—they lie just to land the contract, and then during user testing, a mountain of bugs surfaces. They end up tossing it all back to us—the "expensive" team—to fix because the folks in India completely missed the core objective of the project. We spend three weeks fixing it—basically rebuilding half the thing from scratch.
Then the manager has the nerve to walk in and say, "I don't get why you can't stay within budget; next project is being fully outsourced to India." (And he actually thinks *we* were the ones who botched the job.)

Well, mistakes happen... especially in software...

There are fewer in mechanical engineering... though mostly I was talking about Social Science...
That whole VSS thing was just an example of why jobs get sent overseas...
There's always going to be someone stuck cleaning up everyone else's mess...😬

I think the two of us have made our point pretty clear... regardless of whether you're some kind of engineering genius or whatever...

Adam Collins4 said:It also speaks volumes about the corporate legal teams that the Indian conglomerate managed to outmaneuver...

It just goes to show how much sheer incompetence and negligence is out there...

They didn't outmaneuver me, but they certainly did others. And I don't feel a shred of sympathy for them. Not even half a percent. They should have been smarter and seen this coming...

Emily Taylor3 said:Alright, does anyone actually know if it's just an Indian mindset, or is it like... hardwired software in their heads?

You can find top-tier talent pretty much anywhere—whether it's Romania, Pakistan, Egypt, the USA, or even parts of Africa—but honestly, finding it in India feels like pulling teeth.

Has anyone else picked up on this?

I've dealt with them personally, and I have to say, they can be incredibly lazy, and the quality of their work is often absolutely abysmal.

Indians, and specifically those folks from that famous technical institute, ITT, have basically flooded North America with some seriously high-quality software talent. They’re intense, I guess. They tend to keep their cards close to the chest, work in tight-knit groups, and because the competition back in India is just brutal, they’re willing to put in these insane hours—stuff an average American probably couldn't even fathom. In India, it’s actually pretty rare for a junior to head home without clocking 12 to 14 hours. A lot of them pull shifts, and when things get crazy, you'll see people just sleeping at the office. Look, there are good ones, really talented ones, but they adapt to the Western work culture pretty fast and then... well, they start getting into politics. Honestly, they're much better at teamwork than the Chinese, who can be kind of narrow-minded and, frankly, a bit limited in how they think. Though, I've noticed the situation with the Chinese changes drastically by the second generation; I've had the exact opposite experience there.

How much penetration do Indians and the Chinese have in tech firms across North America? Well... if we're talking software staff... it's easily 80%. Maybe more. There are very few Americans—or Europeans in general, for that matter—at the top-tier firms, though you see plenty of Mexicans.

Even if they were all software engineers in the USA... I mean, the money is mostly in Europe now.

Look, ALI, those folks in the US are nothing but pure cream. They couldn't be more different from the people in Bangalore.

I’ve actually had some positive experiences working with Indians at a firm where the owner was a Jew. But my buddies, who were over here in the States handling software implementation, they tell me that SAP sent over this group of absolute useless... and get this... CONSULTANTS.

Now, look, SAP isn't exactly some joke of a company (I haven't personally dealt with them, mind you), but it really makes you wonder... who is actually the incompetent one here?
I am strictly speaking from my own personal experience, which in no way carries any biased or sweeping generalizations.

The worst ones were the Mexicans, because they didn't give a damn about honing their skills; all they cared about was when the clock hit five. And don't even get me started on the arrogance and those baseless demands they kept making.

Jonathan Morales79 said:The Mexicans were the worst part. They didn't care about actually improving their skills; they just watched the clock. Not to mention the arrogance and those baseless demands they kept making.

If this were a real company, you wouldn't even find Mexicans on the payroll.

Ashley Rodriguez41 said:If this were an actual legitimate company, you wouldn't even find Mexicans working there...

And yet, despite all that nonsense, the firm is still standing today...

Jonathan Morales79 said:I’ve actually had some pretty good experiences with Indians at a firm where the owner was a Jew. But my buddies, who were over here in the States working on software implementations, tell me that SAP sent them a whole crew of absolute nobodies—and get this—they were supposed to be CONSULTANTS.

Well, look, I know SAP isn't exactly some fly-by-night operation (though I haven't personally dealt with them), so I can't help but wonder who the incompetent ones actually are here.
I'm just speaking from what I've seen, myself. Not trying to be biased or make sweeping statements or anything.

The worst ones I dealt with were Mexicans, mostly because they didn't care about actually getting better at the job; they just watched the clock until it was time to head out. And don't even get me started on the arrogance and how they demand rights they haven't earned.

Those SAP consultants can charge a ridiculous $200 an hour. That’s why those "consultants" often turn out to be just random guys thrown at a project to bleed the client dry, even though they don't have a single lick of actual experience with any of the SAP modules.

Mexicans aren't stupid, I guess, but they are arrogant, and honestly, they often get away with it. They tend to land roles in Project Management and things like that. I have one guy in my department... I haven't even acknowledged him for two years now. He doesn't know the first thing about me.
(To be fair, this guy really is an idiot).

As for Jews, I worked at a small Jewish-run company maybe 7 or 8 years ago, and I still remember Mr. Goodman, the old owner. He put an ad in the paper advertising our product as the "FINAL SOLUTION."

He spent the entire week being grilled by guys from the Jewish Defense League... basically telling him, "Look, I'm a Jew too..." and they were all like, "How can you not be ashamed?"... and yeah, that's why. The old man was toxic.

It’s not that Indians are lazy; it’s just incredibly hot there! Not everyone gets to spend their day chilling in air-conditioned offices, you know? Even here in the States, we don't exactly push ourselves to the limit during those brutal summer months.
I honestly can't believe this is even a topic of discussion.

Nancy Hall4 said:Indians aren't lazy; it’s just incredibly hot there. Not everyone gets to work in an air-conditioned office. Even we don't get much done during the summer heat.
I honestly can't believe this is even a thread.

Indians can't afford to be lazy. Unlike Americans, a lazy Indian is a dead Indian.
Take a look at this massive Indian conglomerate, the famous Tata Group.
Just check out these "modest" numbers:

The Tata Group is one of India's largest and most respected business conglomerates, with revenues in 2005-06 of $21.9 billion (Rs 967,229 million), the equivalent of about 2.8 per cent of the country's GDP, and a market capitalisation of $51.3 billion

So, Tata generated $21.9 billion in value back in 2006... I wonder how much the entire US economy produced in comparison?
Maybe we should compare that to a single state.

http://www.tata.com/index.htm

Emily Taylor3 said:Alright, does anyone actually know if it's an Indian mentality issue, or just how they're programmed...

You can find great workers anywhere—from Romania, Pakistan, and Egypt to the USA, or even parts of Africa—but finding them in India seems to be the biggest challenge.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I've noticed this for a long time👍

I honestly think they just inherited the mindset of those cows wandering aimlessly through the streets of Indian cities...🙄

I've been working with some guys from India. Their middle class has this Swahili chip in their DNA mixed with British-style discipline. They are incredibly hard workers. You see a similar vibe in the middle class over in Pakistan or Bangladesh too. Granted, that middle class is less than 1%—the other 99% are struggling just to get by—but when you realize there are over a billion people out there, that still leaves you with 10 million high-level intellectuals you can actually rely on for heavy lifting.

Looking ahead, though, India is becoming a bit played out. Pakistan is where the action is now, and I'm hearing the same about Vietnam.

1. Is that assessment regarding Indians being "lazy" based on specific percentages, or did you just happen to stumble upon that opinion?

2. This doesn't belong in Politics; it belongs in Social Science.

chichonina said:I suppose they just inherited the mindset of those cows that wander aimlessly through the streets of Mumbai cities🙄

Yeah, honestly, it’s pretty ridiculous. I mean, you hear stories about places like Citigroup in San Francisco... all this glass and steel architecture... looking like it was plucked straight out of California, but then you've got a few mindless cows just strolling past the entrance, acting totally nonchalant, occasionally deciding to 'drop a load' right in front of the building...