Music school recommendations?

Come on, Emo§ion, give us the lowdown from your perspective. What actually works for you in your music theory studies, and what doesn't? What’s been a total drag, and what’s actually been fun? (My daughter was asking—how's the harmony coming along? And how are things going with the orchestra?)
For those of us on the outside looking in, this could be pretty insightful.

I can't believe I'm even typing this said:Come on, ruggedharbor95, give us the real rundown. From where you’re sitting, what part of music theory is actually clicking and what’s just a total grind? What makes you want to throw the sheet music out the window, and what actually feels like a win? My daughter's asking too—how's the accordion coming along? And how are things going with the orchestra?
For those of us on the outside looking in, this could actually be a pretty useful lesson.

So, here's the deal.

Back in elementary school, I had this one teacher who was absolutely relentless. She was incredibly strict and spent half her time riding my back just because I was... well, me. 🤣 She’s musical and just a natural at the piano. We used to jam together on Fridays and Saturdays, and honestly, it was a blast—we even picked up a few trophies along the way.
Back when I was learning, I was such a lazy bum that I hated the idea of working out. Honestly, I dreaded going to class because I knew I’d probably get chewed out for my lack of effort. But looking back? It was totally worth it.😬}
I actually lucked out with my professor. It’s pretty rare to find someone who actually gives a damn about their students. Most professors these days just go through the motions—they'll listen to you if you speak, lecture for forty-five minutes, and then they're out the door. Done. Finding someone truly dedicated is a total fluke.
At the end of the day, the quality of your education really just boils down to who’s standing at the front of the classroom. If you get a dud professor, you're basically out of luck.
I headed to high school, and honestly, it wasn't because I have any desire to end up like Max.🤣It’s not just about the piano itself; it's about all those years of grinding under her guidance and those awards she racked up along the way. That's what really matters here.
Since I'm heading to a specialized math high school, that’s my top priority right now. Honestly, there isn't enough time in the day to dive deep into music theory, but I'm still hitting up the local conservatory just because I love it. I have no intention of aiming for Juilliard or anything like that—there are already way too many pretentious kids out there trying to prove how talented they are. For me, it's really just about rounding out my education and actually learning something useful. That's what matters most.
Look, music isn't exactly my top priority, so I don't bother diving deep into things like music theory or ear training. Honestly? I just want to pass those classes and be done with them.😳 😬 It looks like you might have cut off there. What were you trying to say?
I’ve got five pianos.
Theory is such a massive drag. It’s all just pedantic, rule-heavy busywork, and honestly, I have zero interest in wasting my life obsessing over these tedious academic hoops at music school. My only goal is to pass the exam this year and get it over with. Fingers crossed. 🤣
I don't know about your daughter, but if she shows even a shred of interest in music theory, I’d suggest handing her Peterson's book. She shouldn't have any trouble getting through it—it's really just a matter of grinding through those few "golden" rules.🙄
I actually had the misfortune of being stuck in a class full of absolute clones, led by a professor who wasn't much better. Unless I'm looking to embarrass myself by pretending I don't understand the basics of harmony, this whole farce just isn't working for me.😁

Same here. I honestly think you’re either born with a deep love for music, or you aren't. It's just one of those things—you can't really force it.
You can't go forcing kids into things once they're older. It just doesn't work.
So, my parents dragged me into the principal's office at my elementary school, too.😬I ended up falling in love with that piano later on, but that’s not a universal rule. It takes time for things to click. My main point, though—and I'll say it again—is that you shouldn't force kids into something just to satisfy your own ego. If you push them too hard, you end up creating a massive backlash, or worse, you just turn them into total idiots. Look at Peterson, for example. I don't mean that as an insult to him personally, but you know exactly what I mean.☕

zakan14 said:From what I see with kids around 5 to 7 starting music lessons, they all seem to enjoy it.

I’m personally aware of several failed attempts at joining the US Army. I know people who quit after just three months, or even right after their first year. Usually, the reason they drop out early is that the kid wasn't ready and the parents didn't really get it.
A lot of kids don't even make it to high school after middle school, which could also be seen as a form of quitting, especially if you know they're just letting all those skills and interests they picked up go to waste.

My "theory" is that raising a child starts with raising yourself. 😘 Regarding music education, that would mean PARENTS should be the ones actually feeling the music first. If they do, then the kids will find it much easier to dive in and stay committed.
🙂

I’m currently a freshman at a performing arts high school, focusing on the flute. Honestly, the only thing stressing me out right now is my music theory class. My professor is just… bizarre. She has zero ability to actually explain the material, and nobody in class can follow her logic. We all ended up with mediocre grades at midterms, and by the end of the term, she basically just graded us based on whether we showed up or not. A few people are planning to switch over to another instructor who also teaches freshmen—he runs the theory department, too—and word on the street is that he’s supposedly the "greatest theorist in the country." We’re using his textbook for harmony, and everyone raves about him, though if you listen to his current students, the reality might be a bit different.
I have no clue how this year is going to wrap up (specifically that harmony class!). I pulled a passing grade at midterms, just like 99% of the other kids in the room...
And the worst part? I’m stuck with her for another three years. :S

Daisy said:I'm starting my freshman year at a performing arts high school, playing the flute. Honestly, the only thing stressing me out right now is music theory because I have this incredibly strange professor who just can't seem to explain anything clearly! Nobody can follow her lead, and by the midterms, we all ended up with an A... which basically meant our grades were just based on whether we showed up or didn't. Some students are planning to switch over to another instructor who also teaches freshmen in the theory department—apparently, he's considered the "best theorist in the country"... We're using his textbook for harmony and everyone raves about him, but if you listen to what his actual students say, it’s not quite the picture they paint.
I have no idea how this year is going to end up (especially with harmony!). I got an A at midterms (just like 99% of the class)...
And I still have to deal with her for three more years :S

Listen, the real question is what your actual goal is—do you want to walk away with an A in harmony for all four years, or do you actually want to learn how to play (and maybe compose)?

For instance, I personally pulled straight As through all four years of high school in both harmony and ear training, and then after graduation, I started playing jazz (which I've been doing for the last 15 years). Looking back, I realized that much of what they taught us in high school regarding harmony and solfeggio isn't even remotely applicable to real-world practice.

If you truly want to master harmony, polyphony, and composition all at once, just grab some Bach and start studying—you'll honestly learn way more from deeply analyzing a single one of his compositions than you ever will from a hundred different harmony textbooks.

I’ve got a two-and-a-half-year-old, and since he was nine months old, I’ve been taking him to these little singing classes. Here in our neighborhood, they start kids as young as two, moving them through levels until they’re ready for "real" music school. Honestly? It’s just 45 minutes of playing, singing, messing around, and falling in love with music. I don't care one bit if the kid becomes a pro or anything—I just notice how he picks up melodies after hearing them once. He’s super curious, and there’s always some kind of tunes playing in the background. It feels more like a musical playground than anything else. I love giving him this head start, but if he decides he’s over it later on? That’s totally on him.
It’s pretty much the same deal as when we sign up for those toddler swim lessons starting in September—just let him try it and see what he thinks. There’s zero harm in broadening his horizons, and what he actually does with that experience is entirely up to him.

zakan14 said:So we all agree with Douglas Reed7 regarding affinity and maintenance. It’s true that forcing things without any foundation can be totally counterproductive. From what I can tell by looking at our posts, that seems to have been understood well enough.
Then why that comment about ambitions involving some vomit icon??? Isn't that a bit out of line, considering nobody actually mentioned forced agendas or "sick ambitions" anywhere? Honestly!😲 😲
It's definitely unclear what that remark was even aiming at. Who wouldn't want their kids to just be kids?

The icon was meant to highlight certain points. My apologies to anyone who felt offended. Blame the faulty PDF 😬. Alright, we've cleared that up, let's move on.

By pure coincidence, I see about four or five young musicians passing by my living room window every single day. Some are legitimately aiming for Juilliard or the Curtis Institute, while others should probably be banned from touching an instrument in the presence of living beings. And look, I'm a parent too. God knows there are wonderful people out there, but there are also—to put it mildly—idiots who mistreat their children. And what's the result? Under various kinds of pressure, these kids end up finishing some joke of a music program, move on to high school, lose their minds right before graduation, and end up with nothing to show for it.

At my house, we've got piano, violin, guitar, and drums going. I'm also a father who cares about his kids. So, I think I know what I'm talking about.

Special shoutout to Zlo. 🙏

plavva said:I have a two-and-a-half-year-old, and ever since he was nine months old, I’ve been taking him to singing classes (here in our neighborhood, they enroll kids starting at age two, and they move through levels until they reach the "formal" music programs). It’s really just 45 minutes of playing, singing, messing around, and falling in love with music. I don't care one bit whether he becomes a pro or not; I just see how he picks up melodic lines after hearing them just once, how curious he is, and how there's always some kind of music playing in the background—it feels more like a musical playground than anything else. Personally, I love giving him this early nudge, but if he decides later on that he isn't interested or doesn't want to continue, that’s entirely up to him.
It’s just like when we sign up for those toddler swim lessons starting in September—let him try it out and see what he thinks. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expanding his horizons, and whatever he chooses to do with that experience is completely his call.

So, yeah, that's my take on it. 🙂

zakan14 said:Anyway, thanks everyone for all the helpful advice!🙏 👍
Honestly, regarding picking an instrument... I'm not sure if that actually matters that much for a kid. At 5 or 6 years old, they don't really care, right? They barely even know what half these instruments are yet.

I don't know about that... for me, it was a huge deal..
See, my mom's friend played the flute in a local theater production and during one show I just totally fell in love with the sound and was like—that's the one! I want to do that!
I was only 6 years old
😳

I’m not really one to lecture parents—they know their kids better than anyone else does—but I feel like I should say something about my own experience with music school.
I started when I was 8, and at first, things weren't just going well; they were going amazing. By the end of first grade, I was already playing the curriculum meant for second grade. That lasted until my piano teacher left, and then everything just fell apart. In third grade, I ended up with this total dud—just this cold, completely uninterested woman who absolutely killed any desire I had for the piano. For my last three years, I had this Ruskin teaching me; she was okay back in fourth grade, but later on, it turned out our personalities just didn't click at all. Unfortunately, the end of music school hit right during puberty. I remember wanting so, so badly to be good at playing, but because I couldn't get along with my teacher, I just couldn't force myself to practice, and it felt terrible. When I finally finished that school, I felt such a sense of relief because by the end, I just hated the whole thing. I haven't touched a piano since, and now I'm finishing up my junior year of high school. I have zero interest in the piano anymore, not even for "playing for fun," because I know just how much work it actually takes.
My mom wouldn't let me quit the local academy because her motto was "if you start something, you finish it" (I was also attending a private school, which was pretty expensive); I guess I agree with her to an extent, but her persistence didn't really pay off in the end. All I got out of it was a diploma that helped me get into high school.
I think sometimes it isn't a good idea to force a kid to finish something they hate, even if they're near the end, because it just makes them resent the instrument even more (like it did to me). And that’s worse, because playing the piano, people, is grueling physical labor—literally. It requires so much persistence, and you only get that kind of persistence if you actually love the instrument and the music...
As for me, I guess I feel bad that things didn't work out better, since I was so talented at the start and ended up being totally wasted potential... but that's a different story.

bluemaker said:Look, you have to ask yourself what your actual goal is. Are you just trying to scrape by with passing grades in music theory all four years, or do you actually want to learn how to play (and maybe even compose)?

My plan is to head to a top-tier conservatory, and from what I've heard, they’ve started including music theory in the entrance exams (up until now, it was just ear training and instruments). I KNOW for a fact that with my current level of understanding, I won't even survive a single semester—and it's not just me, it's everyone in this class. It's because our professor simply CANNOT EXPLAIN anything. She moves way too fast... she'll scribble down three measures of music before half the class has even finished drawing their treble clefs...
And of course, when we tell her to slow down, she acts like it's no big deal and then goes right back to doing the exact same thing! 😕 Everyone is struggling with theory solely because of her teaching style. Honestly, if you don't have any intention of going to a major academy, you're probably doing just fine... 👎
Maybe some of you know exactly who I'm talking about, so you get why I'm feeling so frustrated... 😬

Terry Turner842 said:We live in an apartment building. It’s 10 PM right now, and there’s no way anyone is going to let you play anything except maybe a classical guitar.
Conclusion: You actually have to check with the neighbors to see what they can tolerate.🙂

Forget the neighbors...

Obviously, your kid isn't going to be playing music at 10 at night...

Afternoons and early evenings? Sure, let them play whatever they want.

That’s how I handled it, and I never had a single issue. In fact, my younger neighbor downstairs was clearly listening to me 😬 because she ended up enrolling in music school—playing the exact same instrument as me, of course.😬:egotrip:

gentlecanyon92 said:just forget about the neighbors...
obviously your kid isn't going to be playing music at 10 PM...
afternoons and early evenings are fair game for whatever they want...
:

That’s hardly the norm! My kids are such live wires that I practically have to hunt them down through the house with a shotgun just to get them to eat dinner, shower, pack their bags, or—heaven forbid—finish some homework. It’s never too late for a concert in this house... Don't even ask.

ivo said:A lot of kids don't head off to high school after middle school. You could argue that’s a form of giving up, especially if they just let everything they learned—those skills, those interests—completely wither away.
:

Exactly. And honestly, that’s what I want to dig into. Is it really a failure if they don't move on to high school? If they stop right there at the end of their middle school years?
If they aren't some kind of prodigy, maybe sixth grade is actually a decent stopping point for building basic competence. It's enough time to test the waters with music, set some standards, and develop an ear for it... isn't it? What does everyone here think?

dustytrucker222 said:If they aren't super talented, I'd say maybe 6 years is enough to build some skills, get a feel for the music, set some standards, and even develop listening habits... What does everyone think?

Honestly, talent is overrated. If you don't put in the work, you're nothing, no matter how much natural gift you think you have. If you just stay persistent, you can make it into Juilliard without being some kind of prodigy 😬 .

So, what kind of skill or knowledge can actually be useless?

Trust me, you’ll make things a lot easier just by not struggling with basic notes or keeping time 😬 😉 ... not to mention developing better listening habits than... people without any musical training. Then there's exposure to other instruments during school, which you can just chalk up to general culture.

If the kid is talented—which is the most important part, since they'll figure out their own level eventually—and the teacher is solid, they'll likely stick with it. If they decide they hate it later, so be it, but that knowledge will always come in handy.

gentlecanyon92 said:but what kind of skill or actual knowledge could possibly be useless?

Man, believe me, you’re gonna make life so much easier just by not having to struggle through figuring out which note is which or trying to catch the beat while everyone else is cruising along 😬 😉 ... not to mention how you'll develop a way better ear for music than people who haven't had any training at all. Plus, getting to see how all those other instruments work during your classes... you can pretty much count all that toward just being a well-rounded person.

Let's not get carried away with generalizations here. I know plenty of incredibly talented, driven, and musically gifted people who never stepped foot in a formal music conservatory in their lives.
And if we're talking about general culture, sure, I played Mozart, Bach, and Haydn, but I didn't actually *get* them until I sat through my music appreciation classes back in high school..
😬
But saying those eight years were a total waste of time? No way, definitely not.
😬

I've seen 😬

I'm not just talking about people who didn't finish school... you can be highly educated without having the credentials; in fact, 😳 everything is subjective 😁 (just like you can be completely ignorant even after finishing middle school, high school, or college, right 😉 ) so it really all comes down to 🙂

David Miller5 said:Talent is totally overrated. If you don't put in the work, you're nothing, regardless of how much natural ability you think you have. If you've actually got grit, you can make it into a top conservatory without being some kind of prodigy 😬.

The truth? If you actually possess talent, you’ll avoid music school at all costs because they’ll strip away whatever tiny shred of passion for the instrument you have left.
Take my childhood, for example. I used to swipe my great-grandfather's old guitar, and I fell in love instantly. It wasn't even about the specific guitar; it was the instrument itself—that realization hit me much later. It makes sound, and more importantly, it makes the *exact* sound I want it to. Before long, I had my mom sign me up for lessons and even wrote my first song. 🤣 Here’s the thing: I lived for the music, but I absolutely loathed music theory. Even though I had the best instructors in the country (Ištvan Roemer and Goran Listeš), not even they could force me to play pieces at the prescribed tempo. If I didn't like a song, I’d play it 30% faster just to get it over with! 😁 Every single year, my report card read the same thing: "Highly talented and incredibly lazy." 🤣 But, as I mentioned, I had legendary teachers who were true fanatics for their craft, and seeing their obsession was the first time I realized how much playing could actually bring someone joy.

On top of that, my mom would take me to all their concerts, and she wouldn't stop there—she actually practiced guitar alongside me during my elementary years. Seriously, she did the work because she genuinely loved it. I, on the other hand, was arrogant; I picked things up way too fast. Once I mastered a piece—which usually happened at first glance—I’d just toss the guitar aside and go ride my bike. It wasn't until years later, after I quit formal lessons, that my teachers and my mom finally got through to me mentally. Once I realized how to play with actual soul, everything changed, but as an hyperactive kid, I just couldn't wrap my head around it then. Bottom line? You need a great teacher, but it's even more vital that a parent loves music and has the drive to support it.

Honestly, I have no idea how anyone put up with me and my constant whining: "Noooo, I don't waaaaant to practice! Look how fast I can do it! Look!" (I'd blitz through a new song 47% faster than required, drop the guitar, zero feeling, just brute force) 😬

As for picking an instrument... hmm. The violin is a fine choice only if you have an exceptionally disciplined and patient child. Otherwise, you're looking at a son who's completely bald by twenty or a daughter who's a total neurotic wreck. 😬

Drito Konj said:And yeah, I absolutely loved playing my instrument, but man, I couldn't stand ear training classes.

I am totally, 100% on board with this.
Honestly, I still can't stand those repetitive ear training drills even today, and I really think it’s just plain stupid to spend all that time scribbling down patterns and repeating chords that you're just going to pick up naturally once you actually start playing your instrument anyway.
The choir is where the real magic happens, you know? That's the real deal.
Not some mindless, brain-numbing exercise like "do re mi fa mi fa re..." over and over again.😬