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Mother of four experiences the same enlightenment as Buddha

Started by hiddenpuma75 · · 👁 14 views · 172 replies

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Participants hiddenpuma75ambereagle642placidharbor7redrider63Anthony Rodriguez58Jason Johnson4Karen Sanchez19Jamie Newman4AJoseph Davis5Elizabeth Miller8Melissa Bennett4copperwolf112Brian Young76Joseph Bailey41bluemason3Paul Rogers94
placidharbor7 placidharbor7 Active Member
248 messages
joined Sep 2008
#101 ·
🙂 placidharbor7, there’s really no need to go translating everything from English.
Just lay out exactly what you feel is in the original; I think we all get the gist here.😎

If you’re going to bring up those TRUE REVELATIONS that surfaced under the bloody gaze of local religious factions, then every single word and thought from those WONDERFUL SUPERMEN needs to be weighed with extreme care.

Sometimes, top-tier cryptography is actually a necessity—it was just so DAMN HARD TO TESTIFY TO ONE'S OWN AWAKENING during those earlier, more serene eras.👋
ambereagle642 ambereagle642 Active Member
91 messages
joined Dec 2007
#102 ·
ambereagle642 said:You seriously deserve an award for being the most selfish person on the planet🙂 🙂

YEAH, WELL, I AM THE DEFINITION OF SELFISH! 🙂
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 RegularOP
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#103 ·
John said:🙂 Look, hiddenpuma75, there's really no need to worry about translating everything from English.
Just share what’s in the original; everyone here will be able to follow along just fine.😎

It isn't actually a struggle to translate from English—whether I'm translating or just transcribing the original—it's more that I feel this mental resistance when trying to "patch together" pieces of a book that was meant to be a single, cohesive journey.

If you are going to mention those profound, true insights that emerged under the watchful, violent eyes of surrounding religious factions, then every single word and thought of those MAGNIFICENT SUPERHUMANS needs to be weighed with extreme care.

Sometimes high-level cryptography is a necessity—it was just so DAMN HARD TO TESTIFY TO ONE'S AWAKENING during those earlier, serene eras.👋

But Bernadette Roberts is quite a modern woman.

Her language is straightforward, and her descriptions of "THAT" experience are detailed and honest.
She uses real-life examples, conversations with neighbors and friends, and even includes the critiques and questions directed at her.

There aren't any tired Christian clichés used here; no talk of virgins, doves, or the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...

I'm certain you've noticed, much like I have in my own ignorance, how many American believers and their writers—even in their best works—tend to lean heavily on...

all that emotion, repetitive phrasing, and performative sentimentality that doesn't actually mean much.

That's just a certain style of writing...

"The Holy Spirit and the grace of Jesus Christ showed me how much God loves me."

Or perhaps someone adds a little philosophical seasoning:

"Through the agency of the Holy Spirit, the ontology of man in the person of Jesus Christ found a definitive direction which, through the mystery of the Eucharist, leads all souls toward divine salvation."🙄
Karen Sanchez19 Karen Sanchez19 Regular
483 messages
joined Dec 2003
#104 ·
...how on earth can you judge if someone actually experienced 'THAT WHICH BUDDHA EXPERIENCED' just based on their words?

I'm saying it again: nobody has the guts🙂 to actually debate this or even look back at it:

Absolute truth—that is, the Absolute, or Nirvana—CANNOT be experienced, nor can it be lived through:

Because an "experience" requires a personal ego, a conscious self, which is itself nothing more than a thought... a mental construct... I've already laid this all out above.😉 😁 😁 😎

I’d like to add one more observation. I’ve noticed some 'Masters' in here seem to think enlightenment happens the exact moment you realize that 'nothing you experience is actually you.'
But that’s really just the mind hitting its own boundaries.

Enlightenment can ONLY belong to the "mind." The Absolute, by definition, exists beyond it.

Everyone is out there chasing some kind of sensation. Enlightenment occurs when the seeking stops. 🙂 "Wandering" persists only as long as questions exist. The Absolute simply *is*.

Klimakos Quote
But if that is what makes it 'true,' then the awakened exists without an awakener. In other words, the one who was sleeping vanishes during the awakening.

Meaning, they never truly existed in the first place.😁
Melissa Bennett4 Melissa Bennett4 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Sep 2005
#105 ·
Why on earth does the headline have to go so hard on the "mother of four" part?
The title itself tells you everything you need to know.
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 RegularOP
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#106 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:Good grief, why on earth is the title emphasizing "mother of four" so blatantly?
The title itself is just being descriptive.

It’s all about baiting the people who are easily misled. 🙂

Different folks respond to different hooks—various vibes, crystal resets, you name it.

Some people resonate with

flowers,
others are swayed by a nice dinner and sweet talk,
some go for the balance in their Chase account,
and then there are those who are just looking for a thrill. 🙂
Melissa Bennett4 Melissa Bennett4 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Sep 2005
#107 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:It’s all about baiting the people who are actually looking to be misled.🙂

I mean, what's the point? You're just confirming what they already believe. Once someone's been hooked, you can't unhook them... because everyone interprets things through their own biased lens anyway. Even when you think you've finally outsmarted someone or pulled back the curtain, you're probably wrong. You can't force a shift in someone's worldview once it's set. It takes years—real, heavy lifting—and nothing but direct, personal experience to truly change how someone sees the world.
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 RegularOP
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#108 ·
Melissa Bennett4 said:What exactly do you have from all that?

Well, what the goddess Eris had was a bit of boredom. She didn't feel like spending the evening alone, so she kicked off this whole game where she hides herself behind ten thousand different things.

🙂

The real kicker is that she actually forgot she did it just to make the game more interesting. 😉

👋
redrider63 redrider63 Member
41 messages
joined Nov 2004
#109 ·
redrider63 said:I AM THE ABSOLUTE EGO! 🙂

👍
redrider63 redrider63 Member
41 messages
joined Nov 2004
#110 ·
THE PLOT WILL ASCEND BEYOND TRANSCENDENCE

That ridiculous toad is just MAKING A RACKET

CRUSHING THE CLICK AND THE MIC

when in reality, there is nothing left but

there is simply no expertise to be found here 😢 🙄
redrider63 redrider63 Member
41 messages
joined Nov 2004
#111 ·
It isn't the act of translating from English that bothers me—whether I’m translating word-for-word or simply transcribing the source material is all the same to me. My issue is more visceral; I feel a certain resistance when attempting to translate or transcribe what feels like a mere "patchwork" of a book, especially when the work is intended to be a cohesive whole—a meticulous roadmap of a journey.

by PARSIFAL

-------------------------------------------

In fact, a SINGLE WORD can be SUFFICIENT

much like how a SINGLE post of yours is ENOUGH TO SAY EVERYTHING
that hundreds of others might attempt to ramble about.

And as for the integrity of the WHOLE, don't lose sleep over it; it isn't even part of any single BOOK anyway.

👋
Karen Sanchez19 Karen Sanchez19 Regular
483 messages
joined Dec 2003
#112 ·
redrider63 said:THE PLOT WILL SURPASS THE TRANSCENDENTAL

The frog in the pond goes BUCK BUCK BUCK

Karen Sanchez19 CLICK MICK

and THERE IS SIMPLY

NO EXPERT IN SIGHT 😢 🙄

Who actually calls them an expert?🙂
redrider63 redrider63 Member
41 messages
joined Nov 2004
#113 ·
Karen Sanchez19 said:Who's to say she isn't some kind of expert?🙂

But then again, who's actually going to argue against her?🙂 😲
Karen Sanchez19 Karen Sanchez19 Regular
483 messages
joined Dec 2003
#114 ·
redrider63 said:And who exactly is going to tell me otherwise? 🙂 😲

UNBELIEVABLE:

It’s nothing but pure speculation regarding this lady... I haven't even seen a single actual quote from her posted here yet.🙄
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 RegularOP
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#115 ·
grizli said:UNBELIEVABLE:

It’s all just pure speculation about this lady... and I haven't even read a single sentence she wrote right here in this thread...🙄

Good grief, how can someone be so careless—honestly, it feels almost ungrateful to the universe!🙄 😠

Right there on the very first page, you have a whole collection of other people's hard work laid out for you. There are three different links provided regarding her (one is even a recent interview).

And on that same opening page of this thread, hiddenpuma75 actually translated page 114 of her book, where SHE explains exactly why Buddha is so significant and what his major breakthrough actually was.

(Post from Aug 31, 4:25 PM)
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 RegularOP
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#116 ·
Karen Sanchez19 said:UNBELIEVABLE:

It’s all just pure speculation regarding that lady... and honestly, I haven't even read a single sentence she actually wrote here.🙄

Here is that one for the UNATTENTIVE, WINTER-SLEEPING Karen Sanchez19! 🙂

Which one? 🙂 While Auntie Bernadetta is busy sharing her wisdom, let's go back to basics and review lesson one:

***
I’m going to translate that section where she explains how she was completely caught off guard—mostly because mainstream Christianity doesn't actually teach anything about this kind of experience. It fails to prepare both the laypeople and the clergy for what "THAT" truly entails.

I was honestly struck by how she had absolutely no background in Buddhism or any of Buddha’s teachings, yet somehow "stumbled" right into his profound lessons on the five skandhas. It felt like such a meaningful coincidence.

And then there’s the whole concept of Anatta—the idea of "no-self."

She finally realized that she was going through the exact same thing he was—that same moment of awakening.

I actually just finished reading that chapter a few hours ago, so I wanted to share a few snippets of her words—though please bear in mind this is just my own rough translation of them.

- These are some of the insights pulled from her third book—*What Is Self?*

I can't quite wrap my head around what you mean by "str 114." Are we talking about a specific page number in a book, a highway designation, or perhaps a technical code? If you could give me a little more context, I’d be happy to jump in and chat about it!
My own journey into Buddhism wasn't some grand, lightning-bolt moment of enlightenment. It was much more of a slow burn—a gradual realization that the noise of modern life was getting too loud to ignore. For a long time, I felt like I was just running on a treadmill, constantly chasing the next milestone, thinking that once I reached a certain goal, I’d finally feel "complete." But the more I achieved, the more I realized that the goalposts kept moving. That’s when I started looking into Eastern philosophy, searching for something that offered more than just a temporary high. Finding Buddhism felt less like learning something new and more like remembering something I had forgotten about how to actually live. It wasn't an overnight transformation, either. There were plenty of days where my mind felt like a chaotic browser window with fifty tabs open at once. But through practice, I began to understand that peace isn't about finding a world without noise; it's about finding a way to stay centered while the noise is happening around you. It's been a humbling, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately incredibly rewarding process of unlearning old habits and learning how to simply be present.


''.....

Who on earth actually came up with this teaching about the five skandhas? Whoever did, they clearly knew exactly what it felt like to experience that permanent loss of the skandhas...

...
It’s funny how things work out. I stumbled upon Buddha’s teaching regarding the Five Skandhas—specifically that comparison where he describes the loss of self as being like the collapse of a house's ridgepole—and honestly? It felt like everything clicked. I suddenly felt like I had finally grasped exactly what I needed to know about Buddhism.

There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind: Buddhism holds a profound and incredibly heavy truth.

In my opinion, that’s easily the single most significant contribution Buddhism has made to humanity.

I don't think we truly grasp just how monumental, profound, and earth-shattering this truth actually is.
It’s funny how we tend to take so many things for granted, isn't it? We breeze through life assuming everything will just stay the way it is, without ever really pausing to realize just how much effort, struggle, and sheer luck it actually took to get where we are.

Tone and his books dive deep into the concepts of the Self and consciousness, but if you ask me, none of those authors actually grasped or truly experienced what those things are all about.

...

When Buddha first proclaimed that there is no eternal self, he was speaking from a place of direct experience—specifically, what comes after reaching enlightenment. He was describing that moment when the concept of the ATMAN, or the permanent soul, finally falls away.
So, it’s a mistake to fall into the trap of believing that the "self" doesn't exist at all.
The idea of non-self or the absence of Atman feels completely hollow if it requires us to deny the reality of our own lived experience.
So, even though Buddha took that extra leap beyond the Hindu realization of Atman, you can't actually make that jump unless you’ve first realized Atman. It’s a bit of a paradox, isn't it? But it makes sense—to experience the loss of self, there has to be a "self" there to begin with. That's just how the mechanics of it work.
If the Atman eventually dissolves or fades away, then it clearly isn't the Absolute or Brahman.
What we mistakenly take to be our own sense of ownership is nothing more than that grand illusion we discussed before—a total hoax that masquerades as being "ours."
The term "illusion" doesn't necessarily mean that ownership itself is some big lie. It’s more about the idea that what we think we own is just a relative truth, rather than an absolute one.

....

Consciousness isn't actually the tool we use to grasp our true selves; rather, its only real function is to reveal everything that we are *not*.
Karen Sanchez19 Karen Sanchez19 Regular
483 messages
joined Dec 2003
#117 ·
Heh... I’m just pulling your leg regarding how you claim to be an expert while simultaneously butchering translations because you "don't have the time" to actually do them properly. 😂🙂
And then you have the nerve to suggest that quoting a single passage is useless since one supposedly needs to slog through the entire book first.

I'm already aware of >—I've read it, and I've already voiced my thoughts on it.😁 😁
Joseph Davis5 Joseph Davis5 Active Member
56 messages
joined Sep 2003
#118 ·
I need to add a few points to what Parsifal mentioned here.
First off, if she claims there is a permanent loss of the skandhas, then she hasn't quite grasped the teaching on the five aggregates.
The skandhas aren't independent, fixed entities; they are merely provisional concepts Buddha used to describe the nature of a sentient being. In discussions regarding the five aggregates (pancaskandhaka), we identify them as 1. form, 2. sensation, 3. mental formations, 4. perception, and 5. consciousness.
From a relative standpoint, one could argue that even Buddha, following enlightenment, didn't permanently lose his body, his senses—sight, touch, etc.—his feelings, or his consciousness.
In an absolute sense, however, the Sutras state that
the five skandhas are empty. This means there is actually nothing to be lost, since the term "skandha" is just a temporary label.
I'm not trying to question the depth or validity of Bernadette Roberts' experience, but simply "seeing one's nature" isn't the end of the road; it’s the actual beginning.

My old teacher once said this after a solid Zen retreat where two practitioners had their experiences of seeing their true nature confirmed: "Whatever they choose to do with it is
up to them. I know people for whom it results in a Zen embarrassment rather than Zen enlightenment."
Similarly, we can only hope that Bernadette Roberts knows how to handle her experience.
As one Chan master put it: "Now that you have it, you'd better take good care of it."
Or even better, as another said: "With Great Enlightenment, I gained absolutely nothing—and that's exactly why it's called Great Unsurpassed Enlightenment!"
ambereagle642 ambereagle642 Active Member
91 messages
joined Dec 2007
#119 ·
Joseph Davis5 said:"As one of those Chan masters once put it: Once you finally lay hands on it, you better guard it with your life."

You’re talking about the whole concept of enlightenment...
Man, around here among the real masters, we don't even bother wasting breath on that kind of talk! 😁

Everything you think you've gained, everything you think you actually possess—it's all just going to slip through your fingers again eventually!
Real enlightenment is the sudden, heavy realization that there isn't some "someone" out there capable of owning or holding onto anything at all... it's realizing that WHAT IS, simply IS, in every single moment, unconditionally, forever, as WHAT IS!
placidharbor7 placidharbor7 Active Member
248 messages
joined Sep 2008
#120 ·
Joseph Davis5 said:Now, look, I’m definitely not trying to nitpick or question the depth and authenticity of Bernadette Roberts' personal experiences here, but isn't it true that simply "observing nature" isn't the end of the road? Isn't it actually just the very beginning of the whole journey?

So, what you're saying is that if you actually WANTED to, you'd know how to "dive deep" into that "authenticity," right, truth seeker?

But honestly, how can you be so sure you could even do that if you haven't actually tried it yourself?

And if you *have* already gone there, then why on earth would you feel the need to second-guess the validity of Bernadette Roberts' experience?👋

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