Traffic violation procedures

crimsonsailor7 said:The statute of limitations is two years from when it actually happened, so your chances really depend on the specifics... and just so you know, we aren't talking about the Supreme Court here, just a high-level trial Court.

Appreciate it. I’m gonna try to drag my feet through this current instance as long as I can; I’ve got one more hearing coming up before I finally take the whole mess up to the Supreme Court.🙏

Since I don't really have much experience dealing with traffic violations, I guess I'm looking for some help from people who actually know how this works. Here's the deal:
On May 31, 2007, I got pulled over by a black Ford with no police markings on it, and three cocky kids in plain clothes hopped out. They didn't even bother identifying themselves as cops before demanding my driver's license and registration, then claiming I'd turned left on a red light at the previous intersection. I was maybe 10 meters from entering the junction when the light flipped from green to yellow. There wasn't a cruiser behind me; I assume they were just sitting at the light to my right. The road conditions right at the entrance to the intersection are honestly pretty terrible—kind of a mess, if you want to use the Japanese term *samajama*—so stopping safely before the line wasn't really an option. It’s a massive intersection,
right where the Potomac meets the Mississippi, so it's totally possible the light turned red just as I was crossing, but I couldn't tell by then.
The thing is, I passed through that exact same intersection about 15 minutes later, and the lights were completely busted, so the police were out there manually directing traffic.
The funniest part happened when they handed my papers back. Since they had pulled me into the deceleration lane before the next light, once they were done, they actually flicked on their sirens, blew through a red light—nearly causing a wreck, actually—and then just shut it off. 😠

I'm wondering if I can argue that the signal might have been malfunctioning right when I went through.
And could I potentially use the fact that the road surface was too sketchy to stop safely as a defense in Court?
A colleague of mine was driving behind me and stopped at the light; would he be any good as a witness in Court?
Also, is it even worth reporting how those officers acted, or is it just going to end up being their word against mine?
From what I understand, the statute of limitations jumps to four years starting January 1, 2008. Does that apply to violations committed after the start of the year, or does it work retroactively?

Thanks in advance...

Jessica Smith40 said:Since I don't really have much experience dealing with traffic violations, I guess I'm looking for some help from people who actually know how this works. Here's the deal:
On May 31, 2007, I got pulled over by a black Ford with no police markings on it, and three cocky kids in plain clothes hopped out. They didn't even bother identifying themselves as cops before demanding my driver's license and registration, then claiming I'd turned left on a red light at the previous intersection. I was maybe 10 meters from entering the junction when the light flipped from green to yellow. There wasn't a cruiser behind me; I assume they were just sitting at the light to my right. The road conditions right at the entrance to the intersection are honestly pretty terrible—kind of a mess, if you want to use the Japanese term *samajama*—so stopping safely before the line wasn't really an option. It’s a massive intersection,
right where the Potomac meets the Mississippi, so it's totally possible the light turned red just as I was crossing, but I couldn't tell by then.
The thing is, I passed through that exact same intersection about 15 minutes later, and the lights were completely busted, so the police were out there manually directing traffic.
The funniest part happened when they handed my papers back. Since they had pulled me into the deceleration lane before the next light, once they were done, they actually flicked on their sirens, blew through a red light—nearly causing a wreck, actually—and then just shut it off. 😠

I'm wondering if I can argue that the signal might have been malfunctioning right when I went through.
And could I potentially use the fact that the road surface was too sketchy to stop safely as a defense in Court?
A colleague of mine was driving behind me and stopped at the light; would he be any good as a witness in Court?
Also, is it even worth reporting how those officers acted, or is it just going to end up being their word against mine?
From what I understand, the statute of limitations jumps to four years starting January 1, 2008. Does that apply to violations committed after the start of the year, or does it work retroactively?

Thanks in advance...

Why on earth would you pull over if they haven't identified themselves—especially when the car isn't even marked? I'm certainly not handing over my papers to some cocky civilians... unless they decide to shove a gun in my face first.

A bit of a messy situation here... and perhaps you shouldn't have handed over those documents in the first place...

My initial instinct would have been to assume I was dealing with some common street thugs and simply make a run for it... however, if they had been actual police officers, I would have maintained my composure and argued that I was merely startled, given that without their badges visible, they looked more like agents from Men in Black...🙂

Just file an appeal—put everything you’ve said right there in the complaint—and I guarantee you won't be seeing anything else from them ever again.

feralfalcon50 said:Just file an appeal—put everything you’ve said right there in the complaint—and I guarantee you won't be seeing anything else from them ever again.

Sure—but I can't help feeling he left out one rather critical detail...☕

First off, if an officer approaches you in plainclothes, they are required to identify themselves by showing their badge before any official procedure begins. If they don't, you aren't obligated to hand over any documents or personal information at all—you have no way of verifying they’re actually law enforcement. This rule applies just as much to transit officers, code enforcement, or state inspectors.

If it turns out they *are* indeed police, your best move is to request a confrontation in court. Make sure to explicitly state that the officers were in civilian clothing and failed to properly identify themselves by displaying their badge. That constitutes a procedural error, essentially making their conduct unlawful. In many cases, this mistake means you won't face any consequences, while they could potentially face suspension for failing to follow protocol.

Megan White4 said:First off, if an officer approaches you in plainclothes, they are required to identify themselves by showing their badge before any official procedure begins. If they don't, you aren't obligated to hand over any documents or personal information at all—you have no way of verifying they’re actually law enforcement. This rule applies just as much to transit officers, code enforcement, or state inspectors.

If it turns out they *are* indeed police, your best move is to request a confrontation in court. Make sure to explicitly state that the officers were in civilian clothing and failed to properly identify themselves by displaying their badge. That constitutes a procedural error, essentially making their conduct unlawful. In many cases, this mistake means you won't face any consequences, while they could potentially face suspension for failing to follow protocol.

🤣
Give me a break—authority is authority. When the executive branch tells a judge who happens to be their buddy that they showed badges, while you, the supposed "criminal," claim otherwise, who is the judge going to believe? A "felon" or the boys in blue? All these lofty talks about our "rights" are just a legal veneer for how they're going to steamroll us anyway. Their power is so unchecked they could practically snatch you off the street just because they feel like it—no reason required. I just find his logic odd—it's as if he'd hand over his ID to anyone driving a black Mercedes...🤷 Even if he manages to prove they broke protocol, it doesn't change much—if those officers testify he ran a red light, he could still face charges, and proving their mistake won't exactly help the OP's case...

@doobie....did you happen to receive any kind of official report or a receipt... was that really all they gave you when they handed back your paperwork?

Douglas Nelson57 said:🤣
Give me a break—authority is authority. When the executive branch tells a judge who happens to be their buddy that they showed badges, while you, the supposed "criminal," claim otherwise, who is the judge going to believe? A "felon" or the boys in blue? All these lofty talks about our "rights" are just a legal veneer for how they're going to steamroll us anyway. Their power is so unchecked they could practically snatch you off the street just because they feel like it—no reason required. I just find his logic odd—it's as if he'd hand over his ID to anyone driving a black Mercedes...🤷 Even if he manages to prove they broke protocol, it doesn't change much—if those officers testify he ran a red light, he could still face charges, and proving their mistake won't exactly help the OP's case...

If there are witnesses and a decent lawyer on his side, that’s certainly going to help his case. Beyond that, if any documentation was filed, he should be entitled to copies of the reports, the citation receipt, a written warning, or whatever else was issued.

Megan White4 said:If there are witnesses and a decent lawyer on his side, that’s certainly going to help his case. Beyond that, if any documentation was filed, he should be entitled to copies of the reports, the citation receipt, a written warning, or whatever else was issued.

Of course—if someone else actually saw the whole thing, then we're looking at a completely different ballgame.

urbanraven16 said:Either the cops will come pick you up, or the Court is just going to make a ruling without you even being in the room, basically assuming you’re pleading not guilty but just decided to play hard to get by waiting until tomorrow...

Since they already have the signed delivery receipt back in their hands, you can't just pretend the summons doesn't exist, and any Court is going to view that as a perfectly legal notification unless you can somehow prove otherwise...

The situation was actually resolved in the best way possible. After a phone call where the father offered a direct apology to the judge—who was quite understanding—she told me to reach out once I'm back from my trip so we could reschedule the hearing. 🙂

Everything should be back to normal now, shouldn't it? 😕

Anyway, thanks everyone.

I guess I didn't really lay out the whole situation with the stop clearly enough. The car had those flashing lights tucked behind the windshield. I can only speculate, but honestly, given how things went down, it’s entirely possible that
it was some kind of official government escort vehicle.
If we just set aside their little stunt for a second, do you guys think there's any actual chance I could win in court by arguing I caught the yellow light instead of the red?

... yeah, I haven't actually heard back from them or anything, they just told me the fine would show up in the mail eventually. I guess I was secretly hoping they were just trying to bluff me all along...

Could have been a hidden camera... easy enough to grab a fake badge and play cop.

Jessica Smith40 said:I guess I didn't really lay out the whole situation with the stop clearly enough. The car had those flashing lights tucked behind the windshield. I can only speculate, but honestly, given how things went down, it’s entirely possible that
it was some kind of official government escort vehicle.
If we just set aside their little stunt for a second, do you guys think there's any actual chance I could win in court by arguing I caught the yellow light instead of the red?

An interceptor?

Forget about trying to claim you hit a yellow... once you're already clearing the intersection, the light's already turned red, and that's exactly how a judge is going to look at it.

So, here’s the deal—I blew a .08 at a checkpoint, went to court, and just got the final ruling. It turns out I'm officially guilty, and my sentence is $0.67, which includes a three-month license suspension and three points on my record.

Does it actually make sense to file an appeal? And if it does, what’s the best way to go about putting that together?

Also, am I required to physically turn in my driver's license so they can log the suspension on it? A buddy of mine mentioned I don't have to, but I'm not sure.

Thanks in advance!

Jessica Smith40 said:Since I don't really have much experience dealing with traffic violations, I guess I'm looking for some help from people who actually know how this works. Here's the deal:
On May 31, 2007, I got pulled over by a black Ford with no police markings on it, and three cocky kids in plain clothes hopped out. They didn't even bother identifying themselves as cops before demanding my driver's license and registration, then claiming I'd turned left on a red light at the previous intersection. I was maybe 10 meters from entering the junction when the light flipped from green to yellow. There wasn't a cruiser behind me; I assume they were just sitting at the light to my right. The road conditions right at the entrance to the intersection are honestly pretty terrible—kind of a mess, if you want to use the Japanese term *samajama*—so stopping safely before the line wasn't really an option. It’s a massive intersection,
right where the Potomac meets the Mississippi, so it's totally possible the light turned red just as I was crossing, but I couldn't tell by then.
The thing is, I passed through that exact same intersection about 15 minutes later, and the lights were completely busted, so the police were out there manually directing traffic.
The funniest part happened when they handed my papers back. Since they had pulled me into the deceleration lane before the next light, once they were done, they actually flicked on their sirens, blew through a red light—nearly causing a wreck, actually—and then just shut it off. 😠

I'm wondering if I can argue that the signal might have been malfunctioning right when I went through.
And could I potentially use the fact that the road surface was too sketchy to stop safely as a defense in Court?
A colleague of mine was driving behind me and stopped at the light; would he be any good as a witness in Court?
Also, is it even worth reporting how those officers acted, or is it just going to end up being their word against mine?
From what I understand, the statute of limitations jumps to four years starting January 1, 2008. Does that apply to violations committed after the start of the year, or does it work retroactively?

Thanks in advance...

1) No...

2) Nope...

3) You can, by suggesting to the judge that they hear his testimony and providing his full info, like his name and address...

4) Sure, you can file a complaint, but honestly, it’s probably not worth the headache...

5) Under the new legal code, the updated statute of limitations doesn't apply to violations where the legal process already kicked off under the old rules. So, it really isn't about when the violation actually happened, but rather when the proceedings officially started. In your situation, since the process usually starts once the citation is issued, everything hinges on when the local police department actually gets that paperwork out: if they issue it before January 1st, you're looking at a 2-year limit, but if they wait until 2008, then it jumps to 4 years...

Jessica Smith40 said:I guess I didn't really lay out the whole situation with the stop clearly enough. The car had those flashing lights tucked behind the windshield. I can only speculate, but honestly, given how things went down, it’s entirely possible that
it was some kind of official government escort vehicle.
If we just set aside their little stunt for a second, do you guys think there's any actual chance I could win in court by arguing I caught the yellow light instead of the red?

Not a chance, because at that point, it’s just your word against theirs—except you're the guy trying to dodge a ticket, and they're the unbiased officers with zero reason to frame you, not to mention all the witnesses who are testifying under oath...

In a situation like this, the court almost always sides with the authorities...

placidowl24 said:The situation was actually resolved in the best way possible. After a phone call where the father offered a direct apology to the judge—who was quite understanding—she told me to reach out once I'm back from my trip so we could reschedule the hearing. 🙂

Everything should be back to normal now, shouldn't it? 😕

Anyway, thanks everyone.

Yeah, because clearly, you (successfully) explained away why you didn't show up for the preliminary hearing...