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Hopkins's Arrow

Started by hollowfox38 · · 👁 6 views · 236 replies

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Participants hollowfox38slyviper47Acopperowl2coppernomad59granitebadger2hiddenviper9Paul Campbell3redrider63Jack Harris3Elizabeth Miller8Alexander HallKaren Sanchez19Jose Reyeshollowviper72
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#41 ·
copperowl2 said:Look, if this isn't your thing, just stop reading my posts. It’ll actually help you deal with whatever internal struggle you're dealing with right now—even if it doesn't make it vanish entirely. 😁 😬
But... there's still that little voice in your head won't let you be, right?
Oh, it definitely won't!
You’re going to keep reading, and you’re going to feel every single word.

🤣 And why on earth do you think YOU need to tell me to stop if I'm not interested? I might not be some logic professor, but I can hold my own... 😁
I don't generally spend my time reading things that bore me, so maybe save those condescending little lines for people who actually fall for them. 😉
The very fact that I'm replying means I *am* reading, which means I'm interested... and as long as that stays true, I'll keep showing up. 😁

You still haven't answered my question. 😁
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#42 ·
Jack Harris3 said:🤣 And why on earth would you think I need you to tell me to stop if I wasn't interested? I might not be some logic professor at Harvard, but I have enough common sense to get by. 😁
I don't generally bother reading things that don't interest me, so you can save those petty little jabs for people who actually fall for them. 😉
The mere fact that I’m responding means I’m reading, which obviously implies there's interest; as long as that remains true, I'll keep showing up. 😁

You still haven't answered my question. 😁


Why do you feel the need to path that you're interested, when it's patently obvious you're just tripping over your own grievances?
A "petty jab" is only as valuable—or as expensive—as the effort you put into trying to devalue it. By trying so hard, aren't you just proving how much power this holds over you and how much it actually scares you?
Think about it for a second: what exactly are we belittling or trampling on here?
Is it something that actually carries any weight?
🙂

As for the answer you're fishing for, I honestly don't see a single question there that you couldn't answer for yourself.
Whatever I tell you, you'll just pivot back to whatever preconceived notion you've already decided on.
So, really... 🙏
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#43 ·
copperowl2 said:An outsider can't fight back alone.
The urge to break the net will never come from within them, because they're just a stunned fly.
Resisting the usurper, the Demiurge Logos, comes from WITHIN. It comes from the CORE, right where it exists and where it can still grow.
Since you don't know anything about that—because the CORE inside you is still held in the tight grip of the outer shell and its fake consciousness—of course the idea of breaking the web will seem completely pointless to you.
I don't even bother trying to prove anything to you (or anyone else, for that matter).
I'm fully aware that those who can actually accept this are EXTREMELY RARE.

If that's how you feel, well... 🙂

I'm actually impressed by how WELL YOU SEE what's happening inside me. It’s fascinating that you claim to see it SO CLEARLY, and without any effort, you BOLDLY ASSERT that some core of mine is being crushed by an outer shell.

What’s even more hilarious is that despite your "CLEAR VISION" of me, you haven't heard a single word of truth from what my self has actually written here, as Parsifal knows all too well. 😁

It also blows my mind that after all your heavy-handed lecturing, you have the nerve to shamelessly claim you aren't even thinking about proving anything to me or anyone else on this board. 🙂

And then there's the fact that you are FULLY AWARE that those who can accept your little philosophy are EXTREMELY RARE.

I assume you can point your finger at these "extremely rare" people?

Oh sure, they're the ones who agree with every single thing you type here. There's no other way to spot them, right? 🙂

My dear copperowl2, you are so copperowl2 in your parrot-like repetition of the same old stuff that, like most people, you resist anything that might suggest a different perspective. You're actually terrified to even think in a slightly different direction—God forbid your precious tower falls down!

Lest the spiderweb you've built so perfectly in your head suddenly rips at the seams or starts looking like something a spider on acid would weave. 😉

In all this chaos, you've found your own logos and you're clinging to it like a drunk clings to a lamppost. You claim you won't bother presenting it to others, using the excuse that
they won't get it anyway—or if they do, they're rare.

For what purpose?
hollowfox38 hollowfox38 MemberOP
15 messages
joined Feb 2005
#44 ·
copperowl2 said:That’s exactly why an outsider ends up chasing meaning in a void; whatever they stumble upon here, they’re just spinning their wheels in a circle.
They’ll kick things into gear, get all fired up and productive, then suddenly pull back and go totally MIA for a while.
Then they’ll start up again, only to stall out once more, coming back each time "enriched" by some half-baked philosophy they didn't even come up with—just something they picked up somewhere, liked the sound of, and decided to pass off as their own deep insight.
They’ll have phases where they follow their gut, followed by stretches where they lean entirely into cold, detached, analytical logic.
And every single time, they’ll zealously defend the LIE they’re currently clinging to, even after having to lie to themselves a hundred times just to believe it was true in the first place.

I think meaning is actually out there; it’s just that an outsider can’t grasp it for the reasons you laid out. Personality is... well, personality.

Basically, it comes down to a person needing to evolve into their "inner self." That requires a total "bankruptcy of personality" as the opening move toward the path—the transition into becoming that inner person.

Later...
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#45 ·
Jack Harris3 said:A fly's fate is to get swatted.
Before that happens, she’ll probably just torture herself trying to save some shred of dignity through denial. 😁
It's pure, unadulterated nonsense right until the very end. 😁

Look, the reality is that a fly—just like the rest of us—is eventually going to leave this physical body behind.

Whether that happens caught in a spiderweb, under a rolled-up newspaper, or just "naturally," nobody knows. Not even the fly itself.

Once you actually accept that fact, you can finally start living instead of acting like a fool pretending that moment is never coming.

And honestly? That is light-years away from what people usually mean when they talk about "accepting one's fate."
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#46 ·
hollowfox38 said:I think there’s definitely a purpose here, it’s just that an outsider wouldn't be able to see it for the reasons you mentioned. Personality is—well, it's just Personality.

So, what we're talking about is someone actually becoming—becoming their true inner self. That requires a total "personality bankruptcy" as the first step on the path toward that transition into the inner man.

Cheers!

That all sounds great, hollowfox38, but how exactly do you picture this "personality bankruptcy" working?
And who, or what, is actually going bankrupt inside you?
Do you honestly believe—and this is the core issue we keep circling back to—that your own free will or some conscious effort is what actually triggers that bankruptcy?
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#47 ·
Endless said:And why on earth do you feel like you have to... Confirmed... Why does that even matter to you... when it's pretty obvious you're just tripping over your own complaints?
The more you try to tear down a little gimmick like that, the more value you actually end up giving it... and honestly, the higher the price tag becomes. It’s almost funny. Every time you try to belittle it, you're just proving how much power it actually holds over you... and how much you're secretly terrified of it...

The logic used by those hardcore cat fanatics... it’s just getting lower and lower... 😁
Whatever you say, they’re just going to take your own words and twist them to prove that the devil is running your life. Even if you try to speak their language... it doesn't matter... 🤣
Who would've thought we'd find the exact same type of people even here... 😁
Quinn:
Just take a second to really think about it... what exactly are we belittling here? What are we trampling on? What is it that we’re actually trying to devalue...
So, I was sitting there thinking about it today... just wondering about all those things we pour our time, money, or energy into that ultimately end up being a total wash. You know what I mean? That feeling when you realize you've been chasing something that just isn't worth the hassle in the end... What’s one thing for you that truly, absolutely isn't worth it? Not even a little bit...
🙂
I don't know about you, but that’s exactly how I handle things... 😁
I guess I’m just wasting my time on things that aren't even worth the effort...
It doesn't really matter if I'm technically right... honestly, all that matters is how it feels to me in the moment...
It honestly doesn't matter if I'm one to talk... I’ve got plenty of my own flaws, believe me. But being unable to screw things up just to spite myself? That's definitely not one of them... 😉
Quinn:
Regarding that answer you're looking for... honestly, I don't really see a question there that you couldn't just figure out on your own...
There are just certain questions I find myself wrestling with... things I can answer for myself, I guess, but I still end up asking them anyway...
If I go out of my way to ask someone a question, it’s because I actually give a damn about what they have to say... I really do. It’s not just about hearing noise, you know? I’m genuinely interested in their take on things... 😁
Quinn:
No matter what I say to you, you’re just going to sit there with your own opinion anyway...
So, based on that...🙏
That’s true, I guess... but I don't really see why that bothers you so much, especially since you're doing the exact same thing yourself. It's pretty obvious if you look closely... 😁
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#48 ·
Paul Campbell3 says:


I’m truly impressed by how "clearly" you perceive my internal landscape. It is quite fascinating to me that you can claim, with such unearned confidence and without any actual effort, to see some core essence of mine held in a tight embrace by an external shell.

It isn't just that I see it; I feel it.
And don't act like this is something that brings you joy.
How could anyone find satisfaction in something like that? 😕 😬

If you were to peel back just a few layers of that carefully constructed mask you wear, you would realize that your first instinct right now would be to charge at me with a baseball bat and crack my skull open.
Can you feel that stir within you even now—that sudden rush of heat climbing up your neck, urging you to drop this heavy facade of polite refinement for just one fleeting moment? 😉
Identify that impulse, because it is actually important.
That very same mask is what keeps you trapped in a spiderweb, whispering in your ear that living outside its control would be nothing short of foolish.
There you go; you finally have a mirror. If you actually look back at your own words, you'll see that someone who truly prefers to "sit on the sidelines" would never compose something quite like this.
Just think of how many of your own assumptions you have conveniently projected onto me!

If you are wise enough, you will realize that this realization is a good thing.
But if you aren't, you'll swing that bat, shatter the mirror, and realize too late that you only succeeded in hitting yourself.
Sorry, but I won't be feeling a single splinter of the impact.
You are free to view me as a provocateur or a spammer; you can try your hardest to get me banned, perhaps even lobby to have the profile of copperowl2 deleted entirely, but what does any of that actually achieve?
The issue remains entirely yours, and as for those new storms brewing inside you—storms that have plenty of fuel because your inner sea is far from calm (despite what you might think)—some new copperowl2 will always emerge to stir them up.
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#49 ·
Mr. Pes said:The logic used by these fanatics is bottom-tier at best. 😁
No matter what you say, they’ll somehow twist your words to prove you’re possessed by the devil itself. Even if you actually agree with them... 🤣
Who would have thought we’d find that exact same mentality right here? 😁

Well, look at that—you’re finally showing a bit of a shift in perspective.
Your facade is thinning, isn't it? Your true nature is starting to leak through the cracks.
That might be useful for someone looking for self-reflection, but for everyone else, it’ll likely just serve as an excuse to start some modern-day witch hunts in the name of "subjective rights."
But hold on, because the real show hasn't even started yet. 😂
Just wait until the penny finally drops and you realize what I was actually getting at.
Wait until you realize that YOU are entirely inconsequential, and that the only thing truly IMPORTANT about you is your ability to grasp what that "bottom-tier fanatic" is actually writing about.
And once that realization hits home, heaven help you, what will you have turned into?
Just sit back and watch yourself unfold.
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#50 ·
Endless said:It’s not just that I see it—I feel it.
And don't you dare act like you're pleased about it!
How could you possibly be happy about something like this? 😕 😬

If you actually peeled back those layers of pretense, you’d realize you’re itching to come at me with a baseball bat right now just to crack my skull open.
Can you feel it? That surge of heat rushing to your head, pushing you to drop this thick mask of fake politeness even if just for a second? 😉
Recognize that part of yourself, because it’s vital!
That very same mask is what keeps you trapped in a spiderweb, whispering in your ear that living outside its control would be foolish.
There. Now you have a mirror. Look at your own words and you'll see that someone who truly prefers to "sit on the sidelines" doesn't write stuff like this.
God, the amount of assumptions you're making and pinning on me!

If you’re smart, you’ll realize this is a good thing.
If you aren't, you'll swing that bat, shatter the mirror, and realize you only ended up hitting yourself.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be touched by any of it.
Call me a provocateur, call me some internet troll; go ahead, try to get me banned or work your magic to get the Endless persona deleted entirely, but what does it actually matter?
The problem remains yours. You’re just brewing up new storms inside yourself because your inner sea isn't nearly as calm as you think—it’s going to stir up a new Endless eventually.

People love to imagine things. But honestly, I have to admit, I haven't run into anyone quite like you in a long time. Not since I dealt with those cult-like groups that tried to brainwash me and make me feel like I was "broken" during an identity crisis. 😁

Look, Endless, none of this happened to me. Nothing. I don't even have the slightest urge to crack your head open like you've so vividly imagined.

Because of that, I'm sticking to my guns: you clearly DON'T HAVE A CLUE what you're talking about.

You're just imagining things. It's worst-case fanaticism. Or, to use your own logic, my "self" is simply REFLECTING WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE IN ME. It's reflecting you. 😢

I just hope you don't take this kind of "brainwashing" to people who are actually vulnerable and looking for direction.
Like g. Pes said: you might have better luck if you aim lower.
hollowfox38 hollowfox38 MemberOP
15 messages
joined Feb 2005
#51 ·
I’d just add that there’s a window of opportunity for certain things, and you can’t just spend your whole life running around like a headless chicken... indefinitely.

Anyone who actually bothered to read what Gurdjieff had to say about this in the link I posted earlier probably caught the term “crossroads.” We’ve been drifting closer and closer to that “crossroad,” except we haven't quite hit the intersection yet.

The truth is, we don't really have a choice. Either we wake up, or the "wolves" are going to eat us alive—that's how it goes in this old parable down here:

Lost in a forest crawling with predators, driven by some vague, unsettling, and deep-seated intuition, an unsuspecting man wanders in search of a path. Eventually, exhausted from dodging countless dangers, he reaches the edge of the woods.
The view before him hits him with a weird mix of awe and dread. On the opposite hill, a magnificent castle stands, separated from him by the bed of a deep blue river. Behind the castle, a stunning valley stretches out, bathed in the dying light of the sunset. To his left, a dark red horizon warns that a storm is brewing.
Stunned, yet gripped by an overwhelming urge to reach that castle, the man instantly forgets his exhaustion and all the hell he just crawled through.
“How do I get there?” he asks himself.
Suddenly, a faint Voice echoes from somewhere deep within his heart. “This river can only be crossed by swimming,” the Voice says... “the current is strong and fast, and the water is ice cold.”
Despite everything, the man feels a sudden surge of new strength. He throws himself into the river and starts swimming. The cold is so paralyzing he can barely breathe, but through sheer force of will, he manages to fight through several powerful strokes to reach the other side, where he pulls himself onto the first step leading toward the castle. Above him stand three more granite steps, which look massive. They lead to a huge semicircular facade flanked by two towers. There, two closed doors serve as the entrance.
Suddenly, a deafening howl erupts behind him. He spins around to see a pack of wolves appearing on the clearing where he stood just moments ago. Darkness has nearly fallen, but their hungry, glinting eyes are still visible.
The man hears that Voice again: “All things considered, you didn't even risk much; if you had refused to swim, those wolves would have torn you apart right then and there.”
Terrified by how close he came to death, the man tries to figure out his next move. Just as he straightens up, the sky seems to crack open and a heavy downpour slams into him. The stone beneath him turns slick, making progress nearly impossible, though he eventually manages to stay on his feet. The storm slowly dies down. He is soaked to the bone, water dripping from his head and clothes onto the stone step where he stands.
“It doesn't matter much,” the Voice tells him, “you already made your move when you swam across the river anyway.”
Night has fully set in, and a thin crescent moon appears to his right, where the sun had already vanished.
“A good sign,” he hears from deep within his being.
The man lets out a laugh. He’s already stepped onto the third stair. His hands and legs are pretty banged up, and just as he manages to stand tall, a brutal blast of polar wind hits him, nearly knocking him backward. But he grips the ground tight, grabbing onto the wall that forms part of the fourth step, finding a small crevice that offers some shelter from the storm.
“That’s not all,” the Voice says, “don't waste time hiding there; that step could crumble at any second, and then the earth will swallow you whole.”
All that resistance against the storm didn't actually wear the man down; if anything, it felt like his strength had doubled, allowing him to climb to the top of the fourth step without any trouble at all.
The second he scrambled back to his feet, a single trumpet blast tore through the air, sounding a frantic alarm. A sudden, scorching wind slammed into his face, and by the time he managed to squint through the grit, there was this shimmering figure standing in the darkness right in front of him. It was the Guardian, the castle’s sentry, clad in armor that caught what little light there was, gripping a drawn sword in his right hand with the tip pointed straight at the newcomer.
"Who are you, traveler?" he demanded. "Why have you braved all these obstacles, and in whose name did you climb the steps to paradise?"
Overwhelmed by this sudden, massive rush of luck, the man slowly echoed the truths coming from deep within his soul. It felt like those words had become his own reality, and he met the Guardian's gaze with total conviction:
"I am a Soul searching for divine bliss; a mere fragment seeking union with the Creator Principle!"
"Your answer is correct," the Guardian replied. The tower doors to the right swung open. He sheathed his blade, took the man by the hand, and led him across the threshold...
----

And there we go again—everyone is ultimately on their own. Saviors only exist in sci-fi movies and holy books (which, if you think about it, are pretty much the same thing).

Later!
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#52 ·
copperowl2 said:Great, you’re actually showing some progress here.
That mask of yours is getting thinner by the day, and your true self is starting to peek through... more than you probably intended.
It’s a good thing if you’re someone looking to learn about yourself; but for everyone else out there, this is just going to trigger a wave of persecution and public outcry based on their own subjective views of what’s right.
But hold on, because the real stuff hasn't even started yet. 😂
Just wait until you finally wrap your head around what I was actually getting at.
Wait until you realize that YOU are completely irrelevant, and that the only thing truly IMPORTANT within you is the part that can grasp what this "low-level fanatic" is actually writing about.
And once that realization hits home... man, God help you for what you'll turn into.
Just watch...

There’s no escaping this.
Whatever it is I need to know about myself, you aren't in any position to teach me anyway—it’s not your department, and it’s certainly not what I asked.
Why don't you talk a little about yourself instead? 😁
My question was pretty straightforward. Or maybe you just don't have an answer? 😛
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#53 ·
hollowfox38 said:I suspect there is indeed a purpose here, though an outsider would be fundamentally unable to perceive it for the very reasons you pointed out. Personality is simply—Personality.

So, what we are really discussing is the necessity of a person becoming their true self—the internal man. This process arguably requires a total "bankruptcy of personality" as the essential first step toward approaching the path, or rather, the transition toward that inner state.

Best,


👍

Perhaps "bankruptcy of personality" isn't quite the right way to put it, given that the external structures are still necessary to carry us. Without the external, there can be no internal GROWTH!
That is why the external side is never meant to be the master; at best, it is merely a student, a servant.
As long as the external persona continues to delude itself into thinking it holds the reins, it only deepens its own inherent imbalance.
Once someone identifies too closely with that imbalance, they become effectively blind.
They feel perfectly comfortable caught in the spider's web, nursing the naive hope that they might one day become the spider themselves, catching flies.
And they will, because eventually, the opportunity to play that role will certainly present itself.
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#54 ·
hollowfox38 said:I’d just add that there’s a window of opportunity for certain things to happen. You can’t just act like a "headless chicken" forever.

The truth is, we don't have a choice here. We either wake up, or we get eaten alive by the wolves—it's an old parable, but it holds up:

And at the end of the day, everyone is on their own. Saviors only exist in sci-fi movies and holy books (which, let's face it, are basically the same thing).

Cheers!

Who exactly decides if you "wake up" or not? Huh, hollowfox38? Come on. Let's start with something basic, like waking up in the morning. Who pulls you out of bed?

Are you responsible for, say, stepping into the street right when a car blows through a red light and hits you?
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#55 ·
Jack Harris3 said:Tell me a little about yourself. 😁
The question was perfectly clear, wasn't it? Or perhaps you simply don't have an answer? 😛


The answer lies within you once again.
Let's say, for instance, someone labels me a "die-hard cat person." 😉
No matter what I might tell you about myself, you will always arrive at your own conclusion regardless.
Are you perhaps hoping I'll try to convince you that I'm not quite who you perceive me to be? 😕
Ah, but that would be a futile exercise! 😳
It truly makes no difference to me how you or anyone else chooses to view me; feel free to write whatever you like about my character, because none of it will ever touch me.
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#56 ·
hollowfox38 said:I think there’s definitely a purpose here, it’s just that an outsider wouldn't be able to grasp it for the reasons you pointed out. A Personality is... well, a Personality.

So, really, it all boils down to the idea that a person needs to evolve—to become their true, inner self.

That's a beautiful theory. But how are you actually handling it in your daily life? 😁
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#57 ·
copperowl2 said:The answer is inside you again...
Let’s say, "you're just some religious zealot." 😉
No matter what I tell you about myself, you'll always have an answer ready.
Maybe you actually want me to try and convince you that I'm not who you think I am? 😕
Man, what a waste of time... 😳
Honestly, I couldn't care less how you or anyone else sees me; so feel free to write whatever you want about my account, none of it is ever going to touch me.

Oh, if nothing touches you, you sure are making a big deal out of it... 😛
Just like those fanatics who shout God's word from the rooftops instead of actually living by it. 😁

Your answer isn't found in me, which is exactly why I'm asking you.

And you don't really care about my own answer anyway, do you? So what's the harm in sharing yours? It doesn't matter what I say to it... 😁

Just be brave... 🤣
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#58 ·
Paul Campbell3 said:Look, copperowl2, none of this has actually changed anything inside me. Nothing at all. I don't even have the slightest urge to bash your head in, despite how vividly you seem to imagine it.

Who else would be crazy enough to expect validation from people who are essentially sleepwalking through life?
It’s as if you’re somehow fully aware of all those fragmented pieces of yourself!
Do they just retreat into the unconscious the moment things get uncomfortable, simply so your self-image doesn't shatter into a million little shards?
That way, you can keep up the charade of being much better than you actually are.
There, just bring that to consciousness and you could toss every book ever written into a bonfire because you won't need them anymore.
Everything will suddenly click into place—not just for your own sake, but for the entire world around you.
copperowl2 copperowl2 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jan 2005
#59 ·
Jack Harris3 said:It seems you’re being a bit too loud about how much someone doesn't bother you. 😛

Fine then!
From here on out, I won't say a word; I'll just sit back and watch you struggle through this all by yourself while using me as your punching bag. 😉 😉
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#60 ·
copperowl2 said:Who else is crazy enough to expect validation from people who are fast asleep?
As if you’re even fully aware of all those little fragments inside you!
They retreat into the unconscious so fast just to keep your self-image from shattering into a million pieces, right?
That way, you can keep playing pretend and act like you're better than you actually are.
Look, just realize that, and you can toss every book ever written into a bonfire because you won't need them anymore.
Everything will click instantly—not just for you, but for the whole world around you.

Luckily for me, I’m perfectly aware of my own "fragments," as you call them.

For example, people on this forum love to pick at me: whether it's over the short term or long haul.😁

There are moments when I lose my cool and feel like smashing someone's head in, just like you say! 🤣

You?
You leave me completely indifferent.
See? And honestly, your stubborn obsession with proving your supposed "visionary status" to everyone on this board just makes me laugh.
Because you're lying to yourself and to us. Take all that advice you're dishing out and apply it to yourself first. Then maybe we can actually talk.

All this just proves that YOU are the one sleeping most deeply of all.

And yet, you're convinced you're wide awake.
🙂

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