What matters more for spiritual growth?

... the power of thought vs. gut feeling?

Sorry if this has already been covered, but I’ve had this question looping in my head for the last few days.
As part of Western culture, we're pretty obsessed with the mind and everything we can rationalize—but honestly, that feels like such a tiny slice of reality.
On the flip side, leaning way too hard on nothing but "vibes" just leads to dogma and blindly following ideas that don't even make sense. It basically turns into that classic: "Because I said so," or "Trust the guru," or some random influencer telling you how to live your life.😁

When you get into spirituality, things get even messier depending on how people define the "soul"—whether they see it as an intellectual thing or an emotional one.
Personally, I tend to put the spirit in its own separate category altogether, but I'm curious to hear what you guys think.🙂

plavva said:... is it the power of thought or just pure feeling?

I think it's worth sitting with those feelings for a bit. 😁

Why even stress over which tool works better? There isn't some one-size-fits-all solution out there, so honestly... just use whatever you've got on hand when the moment calls for it. 😁
Also, if we’re really trying to pin down an answer to what’s actually "more important," you aren't going to find one single truth. It all comes down to who you are. Some people lean heavily on logic, while others follow their gut... and that's just how it works. Whatever carries more weight for you, that's what's "better."
But that's just my two cents. 😉

I find myself actually agreeing with Smith this time around—though I’d love to add one little thought to the mix. To my mind, spirituality is essentially the practice of nurturing the soul, and the soul is our true "wholeness." If we look at it that way, there really isn't such a thing as a more or less important aspect of who we are. We are simply what we are; our spirituality and the paths we choose should be a direct reflection of our soul—or at least, they ought to be.

So, I guess there really aren't any other big aspects to us, right? Like, who we are is just who we are... our spirituality and all that stuff should basically just be a mirror of our soul, or at least they're supposed to be.

who I am
is just who I am
no way out
only beloved
you're a real woman😁

don't listen to Smith, she just levels everything out,
kind of like using a mason's tool to flatten things,

it's pretty obvious that depending on what you're into, some tools are better than others,

and hollowviper72 was totally raised on those leveling principles😁

Thanks for giving my opinion another spin and making it sound like yours... 😛

It’s all about gut feelings, though I always try to keep my head on straight.

Even if both were really just stepping stones to get me where I needed to be.

If you're asking me,

you totally picked the wrong gear,

If you ask me, the absolute core of spiritual growth—the real essence of the journey—comes down to surrender... just letting go and trusting that innate, primal compass we all have that recognizes what is good and pulls us toward it. It’s about that constant, quiet striving for grace and finding a genuine sense of empathy for the people around us.
Then there's the matter of being patient with yourself, I suppose, and accepting that progress usually happens in these tiny, almost imperceptible increments... and maybe a little bit of self-denial here and there, if it leads to true freedom. That's really all there is to it.

Why should a soul even bother to "grow"? What does that term actually signify?

Perhaps we are simply searching for the most fundamental elements. Something pure and uncomplicated....

Refinement isn't usually about adding more knowledge; rather, it's about stripping away the excess...

V.

The word "growth" might trigger some negative associations for people—for me, it brings to mind consumerism, the grind of the economy, chasing dollars just to spend them, and feeling lost in that endless flood. I prefer describing it as an "awakening." I like to think we have this inner spirit, a latent potential... but you have to nudge it to make it live. It’s as if certain parts of the brain, those neural loops, are actually that spirit; you just need to engage them. You do that through various experiences, deep thought, observing (not staring, observing 😉), feelings. Through truly living through things.

The method I use probably won't work for everyone. It's deeply personal; everyone has their own way. For me, it's nature plus physical exertion. Combining them means intense outdoor sports—usually in the mountains, specifically—which forces me to become aware of how my body actually functions. That level of effort and focus on my physical state and the surrounding hazards clears out all the mental clutter... work, traffic, smog, congestion, the city, noise. Spending time in nature—often alone, often in extreme conditions—leads to an understanding of the miracle of life. A return to roots. I call it "connecting with Gaia."

I believe we’ve drifted too far from nature. We've paved over everything. I want to go back. van the concrete. The only upside to city life is access to information, but to generate new knowledge, you need a massive network of specialists. Intellectual heavyweights. I think the perfect balance—which is surprisingly possible today—is living outside the city (ideally in a log cabin in the middle of nowhere) while staying connected via the internet. Every day, I push myself to endure a career that will eventually allow for that, and to find the courage to take the leap. It’s damn hard. It's risky. And the worst part is being labeled a "weirdo." I get what you're saying, blue eyes; it's quite practical, as you can see 😁

I am convinced that the most spiritually advanced people (by my definition of spirit and "progress") are those living in the remote corners of nature, away from the cities, relatively untouched by civilization, yet not spending every waking hour scavenging for food or starving. My only critique of them is that they exist outside the flow of new knowledge. Science is our greatest achievement, but it was paid for by alienating ourselves from Gaia. The beauty of our era is that we can finally bridge that gap. Perhaps we don't have much time left, so maybe this really is the best time to be alive, if you look at it pessimistically 😬 That's why one should try

boldsailor32 said:Maybe what we’re all searching for is just the most basic, elemental thing? Something pure and simple....

And honestly, self-improvement isn't always about adding more stuff to your life. Usually, it's just about stripping away everything that doesn't matter...
V.

Hmm... If someone decides to go totally elemental and tosses out everything else, then logically, they lose interest in anything complex.
I feel like that kind of person eventually becomes pretty dull—just uninterested and mentally stagnant. They stop driving themselves; if you want to talk about anything even slightly complicated, you have to push them to care because there's just no internal spark left...

If I ever run into someone like that, I'll have to ask whether they're more frustrated by the world around them, or if the world is more frustrated by them. 😂

Joshua Foster5 said:...

Joshua Foster5, 👍 👍

you nailed it—I'm pretty much on the same page as you for the most part.🙂

Joshua Foster5 said:Science is our biggest win, sure, but we paid for it by cutting ourselves off from Gaia. The beauty of right now is that we might actually be able to bridge that gap. Maybe we’re running out of time, which—if you want to be a pessimist—actually makes this the perfect era to be alive. 😬 That’s why you’ve gotta try

😬
Are you actually kidding me?😲
That exact brand of "science" is what landed you right where you are—totally disconnected from Gaia.
😁

Joshua Foster5 said:I’ve always felt that the most spiritually evolved people—if you ask me, anyway, based on my own taste and how I define "evolution"—are those living out in the middle of nowhere. You know, tucked away in nature, far from the city, mostly free from all that modern civilization clutter... but still actually having enough to eat without spending every waking second scavenging. The only downside to them is that they aren't really plugged into the latest flow of information and knowledge.

🙂

Seriously, go back and read that again. 😁

It’s YOU who's missing something. Not them. 😂

You're clearly suffering from Jebeniposten syndrome. 😛

Oops, looks like Musica was thinking along the exact same lines... 😁

If you want to actually grow spiritually, you gotta feed your soul the right stuff.

Paul Campbell3 said:😬
Are you actually being serious right now?😲
That whole "science" nonsense is exactly what landed you where you are—completely disconnected from Gaia.
😁

I'm not buying that.

Science—real science, I mean, actual facts—actually helps people grow their consciousness. By connecting the dots, we understand how things work, which makes us more aware, more human, more... normal.

Sure, we lose some things and gain others—you know, human skills and virtues changing over the centuries—but when you look at the big picture, we're definitely coming out ahead.

nimblecobra79, you're finishing my thought. Industrialization trashed Earth, sure, but it also pushed our understanding of the universe forward—intellectually and spiritually. Who am I to deny the benefits of astronomy, physics, and the hard sciences, Smith, Fly? I'm talking about merging the best of both worlds.
I wouldn't be any happier living in the Stone Age, but I'd love for us to reach a post-industrial era (a post-dirty-industry era, if you catch my drift). We need to stop polluting and destroying everything without throwing away the breakthroughs of science and industry. You really think that's impossible?
And as for what people are lacking, GPes, being a mystic in Tibet doesn't exactly sound like my idea of a good time. They might be spiritually fulfilled, but I suspect it's limited to religion and myth. Like I said, skip the Stone Age; give me a space age that actually respects nature. I believe the turning point regarding this destruction of Gaia will happen in our lifetime or shortly after. If we don't pivot, we're all toast. Spiritual evolution toward healing Gaia seems like our only way to survive.
I don't buy the idea of an "alternative." We can't just run away somewhere else and act the exact same way. We don't exactly have many places left to go.

I honestly think nothing changes until science starts actually serving people instead of just lining the pockets of big corporations.

nimblecobra79, give me a definition of "real science" then.

Joshua Foster5 said:Do you guys honestly think it’s impossible?

I personally think so. I mean, every "good side" has a dark side, and let's be honest, most people find that part way more interesting... 😁

As for what anyone is missing, GPes, I don't see being some mystic out in Tibet as particularly appealing. Sure, they might be spiritually fulfilled, but I suspect it's mostly just on a surface level—you know, through religion and old myths.

Who cares, though? As long as they're happy.
Besides, your take isn't much more realistic than theirs, really... 😂
It all sounds a bit too much like a Utopia to me... 😁

Dragonfly said:In my view, nothing moves forward until science actually serves humanity instead of just lining the pockets of big corporations.

nimblecobra79, give me a definition for "real science."

Real science is based on facts—hard data.

Sometimes 😁 people mistake whatever some "scientist" concludes from a handful of data points for actual knowledge—except half the time, that "expert" ignores half the facts needed to reach a valid conclusion, making the whole thing wrong. That’s not science, even if they slap the label on it to look legit.