Is moderation actually a sign of wisdom?

Of course I’m surprised. Honestly, I was expecting at least a 70:30 split in favor of the books. 😂
Maybe it actually went that way, but after all those endless theories about being moderate, you just can't bring yourself to admit it, right? 😛

Anyway, I'm sticking to my guns here. I spent twenty years as a dedicated reader... 😁
Sure, there isn't a single one of those thousands of books from back then that I could actually recount for you, but I can certainly brag about my track record.
😂

hollowviper72 said:Basically, saying you agree with Jack Harris3 just means you actually agree with me too, since he and I have been talking past each other for ages. That’s "the point." If I didn't know better, I'd say you just showed up as Ravanin's "reinforcement."😉

Honey, the difference between you, Jack Harris3, and that one other person who just repeats the same thing using different words is simple: they say what things actually are, while you just philosophize endlessly—spinning 100 pounds of fluff just to find an ounce of actual wisdom😉. Look, that's just how you roll... I'm nobody's reinforcement. I don't have anything against you personally; I'm not your enemy, your friend, your relative, your boss, or your subordinate. I just use the truth to say what's on my mind. Take care.😉 👋

It’s true—I tend to ramble way more than I should... usually in this misguided attempt to be clearer (which is pretty ironic if you think about it).

Look, I have a deep love for philosophy, even though I know some people just prefer plain talk, no bullshit. That’s fair. But honestly? One of the biggest flaws in philosophical circles is how everyone is so obsessed with shouting their own "truths" that they completely tune out anyone else. Actually, if we’re being real, that’s a massive flaw in human society as a whole.

Even though I clearly enjoy getting lost in long-winded tangents, I really try my best to stay polite and show respect to everyone I interact with. In my mind, being decent to people matters way more than whether my writing style gets a little confusing sometimes.

At the end of the day, though, Tao tells us: "more Word count less."
That’s a lesson I’m still working on mastering. 🙂

P.S.

"...nor a friend..."

Oh, come on! How could you *not* want to be friends with an eloquent philosopher like me? You know we always tell the absolute best jokes... 😉 😁

hollowviper72 said:If we're moving from household appliances to aviation, a fighter jet is never moderate. A military jet is always loud, aggressive, constantly rushing, and incredibly difficult to steer or stop once it's on a path. It gulps fuel like there's no tomorrow, ignoring any sense of conservation, and runs dry fast. It flies far, but you don't see much because everything happens too quickly. It wants to reach high altitudes, but it can't stay there.

No, a glider is the true example of a moderate person. It glides elegantly and quietly, observing everything without ever being rushed. Its design understands wind currents perfectly, allowing it to go wherever there is sky. A glider travels far and climbs high, turning easily and gracefully. Because it is silent, it can actually hear the sounds of its world instead of drowning them out with its own racket. It isn't aggressive, yet it reaches its destination exactly where it wants, at its own pace.

Moderation stems from wisdom. A wise person is a thoughtful person, and a thoughtful person is never impulsive or aggressive. You are all mistaken if you confuse gentleness with weakness or moderation with mediocrity. You are wrong because you fail to grasp the aspirations of a wise man, fueled by the false belief that you have already achieved wisdom yourselves. I know I am not wise. I know I don't fully grasp what I think I know, so I quiet my own noise to learn the path of wisdom from the heavens. You fighter jets, caught up in your own power and tension, see nothing beyond your own flight path and hear nothing but the roar of your own engines.

Trying to convince you is pointless. You are deaf. 🙂

That last sentence tells us exactly what you think: that you are wiser than everyone else.

And those who are "deaf" are simply anyone who refuses or is unable to accept your version of wisdom. 😁

Why does this remind me of Lukić? 🙄

V.

Since we are discussing fighter jets, things work a bit differently when you look at the bigger picture...

About thirty years ago, fighter jet designers hit a massive paradox. A modern supersonic interceptor has to be able to fight opponents at high altitudes and supersonic speeds, yet still be effective against ground targets at subsonic speeds.

The requirements are contradictory. You need flight stability so the pilot can cruise without constant fatigue, but you also need extreme maneuverability to dodge incoming missiles or track an enemy during a dogfight. It needs raw power and speed for combat, but reasonable fuel efficiency for long-range autonomy.

Here is the catch: if you design a stable aircraft, its physical inertia and aerodynamics make it sluggish. It lacks agility.

If you design an aircraft optimized for rapid maneuvers, it becomes inherently unstable during normal flight. The pilot would struggle just to fly straight, and landing would feel like a total gamble.

If you aim for a middle ground—moderate stability and moderate agility—you end up with a decent trainer jet for basic scenarios, but it fails in real combat because it isn't agile enough, and it fails in transit because it isn't stable enough.

After several half-hearted attempts using variable-geometry wings, engineers finally found the winning combination.

They design the aircraft to be highly unstable. This instability is exactly what grants it incredible agility and maneuverability.

Stability is then achieved through a computer-controlled active stability system. Essentially, a computer uses sensors and actuators to monitor the plane's behavior hundreds of times per second, constantly making micro-corrections via electro-servo devices based on millions of data points. If that computer fails for even a split second, the pilot wouldn't be able to keep the plane level, let alone land it safely.

That kind of aircraft is capable of any combat role while remaining steady for long-distance cruising. It is agile, and it is exactly as stable as the immediate situation requires.

It adapts perfectly to whatever is needed in the moment.

Your glider, Gaudrath, is a beautiful, highly stable aircraft. To quote you: "It isn't aggressive, but it gets where it wants to go at its own pace."

But the sky I fly in isn't empty or peaceful. It is a battlefield filled with daily struggles. For someone living by their own hard work in the urban grind of the US, life is a series of small and large battles—a succession of mental crises. You have to be mentally agile to resolve them quickly, and they must be resolved fast because new ones are always coming. You are constantly scanning the environment and adjusting your flight path to match the situation. It is exhausting. You have to maintain active stability while staying ready for sudden maneuvers. There are moments of relaxation or quiet cruising, but those aren't permanent states. The only permanent state is being shot down. Death is the only thing that quiets the mind.

With its slow pace, lack of aggression, and inability to perform sudden defensive maneuvers, a glider simply isn't the right craft for me, or for many of my friends, given where we live and work.

And flying a glider in this environment—which certainly isn't a peaceful field—wouldn't be wise.

A glider needs open skies. Neither of us is stopping anyone from changing our lifestyle to something more stable and materially modest, so we can quiet our minds and glide through life like a seagull in the open air.

As I told an acquaintance of mine the other day—a follower of Krishna who was struggling with his own internal conflicts: "Your Bhakti Yoga philosophy is a great choice. But it’s meant for living and working in a spiritual community outside the city. Trying to do it here? You're just making yourself suffer..."

Look, Gaudrath, your sailboat is basically the Jonathan Livingston Seagull of the fleet. 😉

boldsailor32.

Listen, kid, you’re nothing but skin and bones right now. 😁

But tell me... didn't John finally see the light when he hit rock bottom?

Gaudrath, you know exactly what needs to be done now. 😁

The Enterprise is far superior to those UFOs that just hover around and zip about like crazy.

Now, even though I find myself at odds with almost everyone here—mostly because I can't stand the pretentiousness—I suppose I have to admit that V. actually saved me from having to respond to Gaudrath’s sailing vessel.

That boat is basically a... floating jellyfish.😁

We’re looking at a fundamental divide in how we approach existence itself.
To many of you, life feels like a constant struggle—a relentless series of battles punctuated by brief, fleeting moments of peace.
My perspective is entirely different.

...it's just a continuous cycle of mental crises hitting one after another...

But where do these crises actually come from if not from within ourselves? In those moments, we become frantic—much like a cat endlessly chasing its own tail.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it seems you all are chasing victory. I, on the other hand, am pursuing inner peace. Concepts like "warfare" or "crisis" simply don't exist for me in the way you describe them—mostly because I refuse to grant them any legitimacy, even when they show up at my doorstep. They are nothing more than straw dogs. I’m not sure if that resonates with you, but honestly, it doesn't matter much.

I don't live in fear, because I try to live by the principle of the tree: keeping my roots deep in the soil (staying grounded in reality) while stretching my canopy high toward the sky (refusing to let the chaos of the daily grind bury me). Whether you buy into that philosophy or not is irrelevant; what matters is that I am content with it. 🙂

That last sentence tells us everything we need to know—you clearly think you're wiser than everyone else here.

Is that because I noticed a misuse of metaphors—and perhaps even the words themselves? Throughout this entire thread, there seems to be a glaring lack of understanding regarding basic concepts like temperance, which many people mistake for mere "ordinariness." If temperance were truly the standard quality for most, we would be living in a completely different world. So why does the word "mediocrity" keep popping up here?
Frankly, I find this whole thing quite amusing... I'm not particularly interested in a contest over who has the longer beard. You can take my words at face value, or you can decide I'm lying—it makes very little difference to me. 🙂

And one more thing before I go: has it ever occurred to anyone that a fighter jet, despite flying through the air, is never truly *part* of the sky? Think about that metaphor for a second. Otherwise, this discussion serves as a perfect illustration of the modern mindset.

Baphomet said:A sailboat is just like... a motorboat 😁

Not really. A motorboat doesn't give a damn whether the water is calm or rough.
But a sailboat? It's entirely at the mercy of the wind. If you hit a storm or if the breeze just dies out completely, you're basically looking at an "unplanned landing" pretty much immediately. 😁

Mr. Pease said:That’s just not how it works. A raft doesn't give a damn whether the waters are calm or rough.
A sailboat, on the other hand, is entirely at the mercy of the wind; if you hit a storm or the breeze simply dies out, you're looking at an immediate, forced landing. 😁

Honestly, I suspect you people are all just sailors pretending to be drifters because you lack the technical know-how to actually manage a jet engine.🙂

Mr. Pes said:That’s just not how it works. The elements don't care whether the sea is calm or not.
A sailboat is completely at the mercy of the wind—if you hit a storm or the breeze just dies out, you're going to "crash land" pretty much instantly. 😁

Well, first off, the wind never truly stops blowing, and even if it does, a sailboat can glide along for quite a while just on pure lift.
And secondly—let's be real—you can sail right through almost any storm if you know what you're doing.

If we look at this allegorically, a sailboat follows the winds of the heavens; it exists in harmony with them. A boat doesn't fight against the wind—it uses the wind to fly. I’m talking about the principle of water here, which, as many of you know, is one of the most vital concepts in Taoism. We shouldn't take our little planes too literally. 😉

Jack Harris3
since you guys can't even get close to jet propulsion🙂

And who’s actually going to do that for me? 😛
I'm in no rush at all. Are you?... 😁

Gaudrath, are you absolutely sure a glider is actually using the wind, rather than just being dragged along by it?
Or maybe he just got bored and built the thing just to have something to occupy his time... just so he could find some sense in all that blowing around... 😁

Mr. Pes said:And who exactly is rushing? 😛
Personally, I’m in no hurry at all. Are you? 😁

Gaudrath, are you absolutely certain that a sailboat actually harnesses the wind, rather than just being dragged along by it?
Or perhaps it was designed simply because he was bored—just something to keep his hands busy, a way to find some semblance of purpose through constant tinkering? 😁

It isn't about rushing; it's about what happens when a storm hits and you realize a jet engine might actually give you a fighting chance compared to a sailboat. 😁

But since you don't have any jets, and you clearly know you won't survive a real storm, you just close your eyes while drifting and pretend you're a sturdy raft just to feel a little more secure. At least until the first real gale rolls in. 🙂

Mr. Pes said:hollowviper72, are you absolutely certain the sailboat is actually harnessing the wind—rather than just being dragged along by it?
And for that matter, is it possible he didn't get bored and just designed the whole thing as a way to stay busy? To find some semblance of purpose in his own constant striving? 😁

It’s essentially the same thing, isn't it? 😁

Here’s a little more wisdom for you all while you’re busy tinkering with your household appliances and flying around in planes—meanwhile, I’ll just be drifting along with Tao and Ching. 😈

Do you really think you have the power to seize control of The Universe and make it better?
I truly don't believe it's possible.

The Universe is sacred.
You cannot improve it.
If you attempt to change it, you’ll only end up ruining it.
If you try to grasp it, you’ll only end up losing it.

So, at times things move forward, and at other times they fall behind;
At times breathing feels labored, and at others, it comes naturally;
At times there is strength, and at times there is weakness;
At times one is elevated, and at times one is low.

That is why the wise soul avoids extremes, excess, and complacency.

There you go. Now, feel free to carry on with your endless "blah blah blah" following the teachings of Tao and Ching. 😁

P.S.

Alexander Parker69, if the wind carries you along, can that same wind ever truly break you? Just remember—we’re talking about a proverbial sailboat and a proverbial sky here. There isn't a patch of solid ground in sight. 😉

What I mean is, think about the principle of water. You can try to box water in with a massive dam, and it won't fight back—not at first. But no dam on earth can hold back even the tiniest little stream forever. The world isn't some territory waiting for us to conquer; it's something we're meant to understand. And honestly, it's pretty hard to wrap your head around the "wind" when you're busy trying to tear right through it, don't you think?

Let's not take our talk about planes too literally. We don't need to go *ad nauseam* with it. 😛

hollowviper72 said:There you have it. Now feel free to go ahead and tear into Tao and Ching all you want. 😁

Per the request of 😁

It’s just that those guys always frame their little philosophies as if they were ancient sages. In reality, they're just senile old men who probably can't even make it to the bathroom without help anymore, so they pivot to being "deeply balanced." It isn't actual wisdom; it's just a lack of options. It's an excuse for the weak 🙂
But I suppose it was hard to survive back in the day when life was brutal. You had no social security, you were physically failing, and anyone could walk up and mess with you. So, naturally, you start playing the wise man act just to claw back some semblance of respect 😁

Arthritis is just a euphemism for your entire philosophy, 🎉

hollowviper72 said:P.S.

Alexander Parker69, if the wind carries you, can that very same wind break you? You need to remember that we’re talking about a proverbial sailboat and a proverbial sky here. There isn't a patch of solid ground in sight. 😉

I'm talking about the principle of water. You can try to wall it off with a dam, and it won't fight back. But no damn dam on Earth can hold back even the smallest stream forever. The world isn't some territory waiting for us to conquer; it's something we're meant to understand. And frankly, it's pretty hard to grasp the nature of the "wind" when you're busy trying to scream your way through it, wouldn't you agree?

Let's not take our aircraft too literally. We don't need to go *ad nauseam* with this. 😛

The world is matter—an illusory series of natural occurrences. We are here to conquer it, to master it, to subjugate it, to dismantle it, to grasp it, to harness it...

Of course, you could just choose to surrender and be nothing more than another biological entity—just another animal, perhaps slightly more intelligent but not by much—and in doing so, you'd miss out on what the human body is actually capable of achieving.

I used to think people dismissed the older generation as just being out of touch—you know, those stereotypical "grumpy old folks"—simply because certain individuals were dragging down the averages for us younger guys... I won't go on naming names here, but you all know exactly who I'm talking about... 😁

hollowviper72 said:I used to think people dismissed intellectuals as nothing more than outdated old farts simply because certain individuals—and I won't name names here, but you all know exactly who you are—tend to drag down the average for the rest of us younger folks... 😁

But honestly, let's not forget there are still those who actually have some life in them; the ones who aren't just searching for a philosophical substitute for their mother's apron to hide under, hoping to feel safe, warm, and insulated from all the nasty things happening in the world. 😁

ravana said:The world is just matter—an illusionary string of nature. We are here to conquer it, master it, subdue it, tear it down, grasp it, and tame it...

Of course, you could choose to just surrender to it all. You could settle for being just another biological entity—basically an animal, maybe a little more intelligent, but not by much—and pass up everything the human body is actually capable of achieving.

But seriously, how exactly do you "conquer" the ocean? How do you "master" the wind? Subdue a rock? Destroy light? Grasp lightning? Tame a mountain?