Anyone following the hostage situation in Russia?

Dana Miller6 said:Exactly! It’s like how the Russian military just turns around and starts targeting their own people, whereas Americans don't go after our own kind...

🙄 🙄
Oh, really?
Man, you are just so young and incredibly naive...

Steven Ruiz said:And, by the way, for everyone blaming the Russians.
The operation wasn't premeditated; they were in the middle of negotiations.
It turned violent because terrorists set off bombs just as negotiators were carrying out bodies they had already agreed to release. Children and other hostages used the chaos to try and escape, and the terrorists started shooting at them, so the Russians reacted. I believe anyone else would have done the exact same thing.
Besides, how long could those kids have survived without food or water? One boy said on TV they were drinking their own urine because they were so thirsty.
Honestly, I'm disgusted by anyone blaming the Russians for such heavy casualties.
Cause and effect, people. Get with it. 🙄
Unless you've experienced terror yourself, there is no excuse for targeting children.
I get that the Chechens are oppressed and that basic human rights are being violated there, etc., etc... but if you're that bitter, go express it in the Russian parliament instead of a school full of kids.
Disgusting.
Frankly, I have no patience for any kind of terrorism. To me, it’s not even in the same league as armed combat or blowing up a bus, a subway, a plane, or a school.
Pathetic and cowardly.
When we were being suppressed by Mexicans, we didn't march into Mexico to blow up their schools and buses, did we?
Terrorism only breeds more hatred. They won't achieve anything with these Chechens—absolutely nothing.

I don't blame the Russians for the firefight or the deaths. I blame them because over 300 people died (!). Where were the snipers on the surrounding rooftops to stop anyone in the building from opening fire? Where were the flashbang grenades?

The units shown on TV looked like regular infantry to me, not some specialized SWAT team. This isn't the first terrorist attack on Russia, and you don't need an atomic submarine to fight terrorists; it's just a matter of training and decent gear. My conclusion is that the Russian government was 100% incompetent, and the innocent paid the price.

Steven Ruiz said:🙄 🙄 Oh, really? My goodness, you are just so young and incredibly naive...

Steven Ruiz, you are clearly suffering from that classic female affliction known as "selective hearing." Let me say this again for clarity: you are being truly gullible if you actually bought into the official Russian version of events.

As for that other topic you're attempting to pivot toward: where in the USA has an operation against hostage-takers ever resulted in over 300 of our own people being killed alongside maybe 15 to 25 captors? And where have they tried to pass off complete nonsense as truth, much like the Russians always do? Just stick to talking about shopping...

Oh, come on, let’s stop with the patronizing tone... 🙄

Seriously though, when has America ever dealt with such a massive hostage crisis without some sort of mess following it?
I mean, it's not like they haven't found themselves stuck in tight spots before... not by a long shot... it's just that they always manage to frame everything as a series of military triumphs, even when terrorists are breathing down their necks, right?
Honestly, if you had just said that Russia messed up and left things as they were, I wouldn't have said a word, but when you compare their impact to what Americans do—who tend to leave much bigger messes behind in almost every situation—it actually becomes pretty laughable...
BTW, I don't need the official Russian versions of events. There are plenty of reporters and former hostages coming forward now, sharing exactly what happened and how it all went down. If I don't need to trust "official reports," then I can certainly trust the hostages who were actually there to see it firsthand...

hobbit said:What a total disaster.

The people who came up with this whole school concept have basically screwed over Muslims everywhere.

Actually, no they didn't, hobbit. In several other places—places I won't even bother naming specifically—this has been going on for years already.

ladybug said:The terrorists actually got exactly what they wanted—they successfully pivoted the entire public spotlight toward Chechnya. Now, a lot of Americans are thinking it might be better to just let the Chechens go, provided it stops the violence...

I don't think you really understand the American spirit, ma'am. 😉 Sometimes, this nation is more than willing to pay in blood just to make sure the enemy feels the sting...

I wouldn't be surprised if those terrorists turned out to be foreign agents.

Steven Ruiz said:Nah, they’ve never been on my good side—they’re just flat-out wrong, honestly.

You've got a point there. I'm originally from Georgia, and back home, we all spoke /absolutely beautiful/ Russian. (I mean, am I even in the right place? 😉)

If they're looking for people who don't know a word of Russian, they might find some isolated little towns out in the middle of nowhere. But good luck finding those; it's a long shot.

This is a bit off-topic, but there’s a connection here, so I hope you’ll forgive me. A couple of weeks ago, I found myself having to drop by the Canadian consulate over in Manhattan. The official there—just one person working in a tiny but very tidy little office—was perfectly polite. However, even after I mentioned I was American, she just kept right on speaking English to me (as did I, naturally). It wasn't an issue, though I'm fairly certain she understands some American or perhaps Mexican given her age and what they teach in school.

Most of us who grew up watching Canadian television don't have much trouble following their language, even if I never actually studied it formally in school, so my grammar isn't exactly perfect. I don't see why a Canadian woman would feel obligated to meet me halfway by speaking American just because she likely understands it. Then again, who knows? If I were some elderly lady who didn't speak a word of English, I suspect the situation would have played out quite differently.

Perhaps a more accurate comparison would be with the non-Slavic groups from the old America—take the Albanians, for instance, being the largest group among them. Most of them, at least those living outside of Mexico, could speak at least a little bit of American or Mexican. They certainly don't speak to each other that way, but they can definitely make themselves understood.

Honestly, you can't really compare the Russian Federation to the old America when it comes to language dynamics.

Back then, everyone—and I mean absolutely everyone—spoke Russian. It’s still widely understood today, mostly because it was the official language used everywhere... it was just part of life.

Look at Turkmenistan for instance. They tried to kick Russian out of official use, but once everything turned into total chaos in government communications, they had to bring it right back.

frozenbison42 said:Nah, you little hobbit, they aren't. In other places—places I won't even bother naming—this has been going on for years.

Maybe try backing that up with some actual evidence or a link. Right now, it's just empty talk.

frozenbison42 said:Nah, you little hobbits, they really aren't. I've seen this exact same thing playing out in other places for years now—places I won't even bother naming specifically.

Quote:A 13-year-old girl told me the worst moment was when the terrorists shot a man dead on the first day in front of all the little children. I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

But look, back in Iraq, you had Muslim religious leaders heading over there specifically to try and negotiate the release of those French journalists. And now? Now we're looking at something where they've grabbed something like 1,500 people, including kids, as hostages—it's just one of those situations where nobody on the planet seems to have any real control.

The Chechens have been seizing hospitals before; honestly, that's nothing new at this point.
But what they've pulled off this time is just plain haram—a massive sin, truly.

It’s not going to do anything to help their cause, either.

And it's definitely not true that there's no information coming out of Chechnya from independent media sources. I mean, seriously, what does "independent media" even mean in this day and age anyway?
I've spent so much time digging through documentaries and reading everything I can get my hands on. Just because you don't see a crew from CNN or CBS actually standing on the ground there doesn't mean there isn't reporting happening.

Let me clean this up a bit... They shouldn't be taking children. It was just plain stupid. And honestly, we can't just gloss over the fact that the deaths of 3,000 people at the WTC were just as devastating.

frozenbison42 said:Let me just polish this up a bit... Look, they shouldn't be taking kids. It was just plain stupid. And honestly, we can't just gloss over the fact that the loss of 3,000 lives at the World Trade Center was just as massive and devastating.

I mean, if we were talking about any other standard conventional war, the World Trade Center would have been leveled, period. But anyway, that's not even what we're getting into here.

frozenbison42 said:Sometimes the Russian people are more than willing to pay in blood just to ensure their enemy suffers...

Why would the average Russian care about Chechnya? Are they a suicidal nation?😕 You can't compare this to WWII, where there was a direct threat to survival, or even Afghanistan, which was an imperialistic mess typical of any dictatorship.

stormylynx14 said:What does your average American actually care about in Chechnya? Are Americans just collectively suicidal or something?😕 You really can't draw any parallels here to World War II, where the US was facing an existential threat, or even Afghanistan, which was just one of those imperialist quagmires you get when a dictatorship runs out of better things to do.

In my circles, people usually just label this kind of thing as "chauvinism." But let’s be honest, there are much more pragmatic reasons at play here. I’ll have to check in with my relatives—they definitely have a better handle on the specifics than I do—to find out what those actual motivations are.

They’re a lot like Chechnya. The Kazakhs told me that Russia doesn't want to show any signs of weakness, just as Putin put it.

Chechen guerrillas are offering a $20 million bounty on Putin, the war criminal. These guys clearly have a sense of humor, I'll give them that. 🙂

I hope everyone who was busy criticizing the Russian liberation efforts actually watched THE VIDEO RECORDED BY THE CHECHEN GOONS THEMSELVES... It’s honestly a miracle anyone survived, considering how much of it was "captured" by bombs and the sheer willingness of those Chechens to target children.

It's shameful. What kind of animals are these? There’s no excuse here—this isn't about politics between Russia and Chechnya.

How long are we going to keep being targeted by terrorists all over the world?

http://www.theodora.com/flags/as-t.gif 🙂 😉 😎

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Jamie Clark74 said:I truly hope that everyone who was so quick to criticize the Russian liberation efforts actually watched THE VIDEO THAT THE CHECHEN BRUTES RECORDED THEMSELVES... honestly, it’s a miracle anyone survived at all, considering how much of everything was just "leveled by bombs," and the sheer willingness of those Chechens to open fire on children.

It is a disgrace. What kind of animals even exist? There is absolutely no excuse here; this isn't about some political dispute between Russia and Chechnya.

How long are we going to be targeted by terrorists all over the world?

http://www.theodora.com/flags/as-t.gif 🙂 😉 😎

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Precisely.

Now, the real question is whether this would have happened if the Russians had stayed at the negotiating table with the Chechens, or if Chechnya were an independent nation.
Personally, I suspect it still would have come to this. Perhaps not on such a massive scale, but terrorism would still be an issue. The core problem lies within Islam itself, specifically because many of those nations are underdeveloped and deeply intolerant. In places like Iran or what used to be Afghanistan, everything is being systematically destroyed simply because it clashes with Islamic doctrine. Take, for instance, the kidnapping of two French journalists in Iraq. France—a nation that advocated for a peaceful resolution to the Iraqi crisis and doesn't even have troops stationed there—became a target for terrorism just because of bans on wearing religious symbols in schools. I mean, what happens if someone wears a cross necklace in an Iranian school? Where does that end?😠
What did bin Laden actually achieve by bringing down the towers? He didn't even have a sovereign state of his own. Did he really think that move was a smart play for the Muslim world?