Freezing cold

Love and affection can turn into pure hatred in a heartbeat. And yeah, the reverse happens too. But why does that even happen?

I'm thinking it's just this built-in psychological defense mechanism. Like, when someone actually opens up—which is basically how you connect with people and find love—but they end up getting crushed because the other person can't handle that vulnerability. Instead of just owning the mistake and moving on, people flip out. This nasty little ego shield kicks in and suddenly treats that person like a threat. How does someone you loved five minutes ago suddenly become a "threat"? What kind of threat are we even talking about here? Isn't hatred just some primitive reflex we should be outgrowing? Or better yet... just leaving behind?

Because at the end of the day, hating someone just burns you alive more than anyone else.

Bradley Fisher20 said:Affection can easily turn into hatred.
...

It is interesting how this false claim has become accepted as truth after being repeated so many times.🙄

What turns into hate isn't love; it is possessiveness masquerading as love.

Love and hate are too far apart to ever truly meet or be exchanged for one another.😎

Rachel Bishop, what are your thoughts on this?😉

🙂 🙂 🙂

Harold James9 said:It’s curious how a falsehood, repeated enough times, eventually settles into being accepted as truth.🙄

What turns into hatred isn't love; it's possessiveness masquerading as affection.

Love and hate are too distant to ever truly meet, let alone become one another.😎

Rachel Bishop, what's your take on this?😉

🙂 🙂 🙂

I suppose I agree...😉

On this earthly plane (ha...), love and hate are essentially the same thing. That's why they can morph into one another—it's proof of their shared nature.
Nothing truly "different" could undergo such a transformation. It is simply the same substance with a different polarity.
Love that isn't about ownership or control, but focuses solely on the happiness of the other... that is a completely different beast, even if everything stems from the same singular source.😉

I posted this on Bradley Fisher20's thread about love:

Love always needs someone or something to latch onto just so it can actually exist...

So how can anyone claim to be truly independent or unconditional when the very nature of love wipes all those notions away from the start?

That’s why love is such a ridiculous, contradictory game we play with ourselves.

It practically requires hatred just so it has something to push back against..
It needs fear just so it can act as a source of courage..

What purpose does love even serve if there isn't any hatred to balance it out?

Can you honestly say you've ever truly felt love without having experienced hate first—or vice versa? (I know, I know, it's a total cliché)

Is love actually love then,

or is it just a bandage for an old wound?

It’s this whole dualistic concept, almost like some old philosophical doctrine where good and evil are inseparable forces.//

But then again, there's another way to look at it~

There is only love.

And hatred? Hatred is just moving away from it.

Clichés stick around because they usually hold some truth. So, I’m with you on that—we really only experience love in contrast to hate...
The real question is whether absolute love and absolute hate actually exist. Or are they just two sides of the same coin?

Man, that was way too easy for him...😎

Someone once pointed out that just by mentioning something, you basically bring it into existence...😎 And if we follow that logic, I guess that would mean both sides of this argument actually exist.😁 But does all this even exist outside of our own heads, or is it just a matter of what the local police department decides based on their own personal biases?

John Walker74 said:Someone once said that just mentioning something makes it real..😎 If we follow that logic, Henry Barrett11, then both of those things exist..😁 But does it all just live inside our heads? That’s probably up to the police—or, you know, personal conviction.

hahahaha... the police😁 👍
I’d love to believe absolute love actually exists. Though I’m becoming more convinced that if it does, it isn't about emotion—it's about reason.
To me, love is higher than just a hormonal rush. It's the conscious awareness of acting or not acting. A rational, deliberate choice to act in someone's best interest (please don't come for me on this one. Fine, whatever, let's call it "well-being")... without needing anything in return.
What people call love in the first three months? That's definitely not it. Not even close.

Philosophically speaking—and my neighbor 😁 Henry Barrett11 is going to agree with me on this one, hey neighbor—it’s nearly impossible to claim that anything is strictly "this" or "that." Because once you label something as "this," you immediately find yourself stuck in the loop of having to prove why it qualifies as such, which just triggers another layer of justification, and then another, and another... you never actually reach a point of absolute finality or precision in any definition.

My neighbor put it perfectly when he suggested that we should just hand philosophy over to the physicists😁 because we've reached this boiling point where everything just spins in circles; every single claim demands its own explanation, and then that explanation demands yet another, ad infinitum.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with Henry Barrett11, mostly because I try (even if I don't always succeed) to respect everyone's individual perspective.
The idea is that you should simply witness your own approach rather than trying to preach it to others.
Personally, my favorite way to look at philosophy is the one Karl Jaspers laid out so beautifully in his introduction to the subject.
I have an interest in other approaches too, but nothing too intense.
It doesn't really matter to me whether philosophy helps physics explain if the Earth is round or just a bit lumpy,
what actually matters to me is: what does THIS do for ME?
People should be free to view philosophy however suits them best....
Some might treat it like a hard science, while others might treat it like a piece of poetry.
Then Henry Barrett11 tells me that I'm not really a philosopher, arguing that history shows how every single philosopher fights tooth and nail to make their own worldview the foundation for everyone else's.

And where does that lead us?
To the death of philosophy?😁
Or to the ultimate triumph of physics?🙂

It takes you back to the very beginning, when all sciences—or arts, if we’re being honest—were actually one single thing.
So, a philosopher was also a physicist, a geographer, and a poet all at once...
Nowadays, physics is crawling back toward philosophy because our tech is lagging about 200 years behind our theories.
"The Death of Philosophy"... that’s a killer book title. I should write that down.
Approaching philosophy is such a sensitive, delicate business... personally, I try not to force an approach. I try to be like water in a container—changing shape while still remaining myself. Though, honestly, sometimes it feels like I'm just talking in circles. Maybe that's just my version of an "approach."

Henry Barrett11 said:Love and hate are just too far apart to ever truly meet, let alone become one and the same.😎

I find myself agreeing with that sentiment. Illegal, I'm curious how you managed to draw such a drastic connection between them? 😕 It’s hard to imagine someone genuinely hating what they actually love, unless that "love" is nothing more than a calculated move based on self-interest. Hate is also a much heavier, more complex concept than people give it credit for. Personally, I don't harbor any hatred toward anyone, though there are certainly plenty of people I simply don't care for.
Love is such a profound and powerful thing, and it isn't something everyone has experienced or even understands. But those who really do grasp what love is—no matter who or what it's directed toward—know instinctively that it exists in a completely different universe than something negative like hate.

Love.
Such a simple word, yet there’s an endless amount you can say about it. Even when I think I get it, I realize I don't know a damn thing.

Love is the engine that drives everything. Like Anne Hathaway once said🙏, you need it to soften the edges, to crush fear, and to actually see beauty.
On its own, love doesn't mean much. It isn't some perfect, untouchable absolute, but we can reach that sense of wholeness through our own contradictions. Love needs us to exist, just like we need it to find ourselves. It’s the one constant in this chaotic mess we call life. And look, it isn't always sweet or romantic—but somehow, it's all of that too. It’s not just sitting behind the "good" or "beautiful" things; it’s the actual glue that heals the friction within ourselves.
Love isn't the opposite of hate; love isn't the opposite of anything. It exists in the middle and above it all. Affection can flip into hate, and hate can flip back into affection. But love? Love keeps that engine turning. Maybe love is the tool that breaks us apart just so it can put us back together as something whole. We shouldn't be chasing some "ultimate" version of love, because love already is that. It's how we take our internal duality and fuse it together until we're soft enough to accept the constant shift between black and white as the ultimate truth. Hate and affection just dance to the rhythm of love. The goal is simple: heal yourself, but do it by connecting with others.
Love flows through us and, eventually, through everyone else. You can only truly give and receive when you stop setting conditions for other people and start setting them for yourself. That's when it clicks—giving is exactly the same as receiving, because it all starts and ends with us.

But hey, don't listen to me—I'm still figuring this stuff out...😁 😉

one fat guy...
Is this thread actually just about hate? I think we've all collectively lost our minds here...

Can someone please give me a decent breakdown: what even is hate?
Is it just the opposite of love? Does Essence think hate is the opposite of an engine—like, just the brakes?
Do we link love to creation and hate to destruction?
Or is it simple: love equals good, and hate equals evil?
I want to hear everyone's take on hate, but specifically this: can hate ever have a positive outcome? Not from the perspective of the person hating (fine, I'm acknowledging human nature), but looking at it from a broader angle?

Hatred?
To me, hatred is just a negative emotion that kicks in when someone or something "forces" our hand, making us act against what we actually enjoy or love over a long stretch of time. It’s basically just chronic anger. If you’re hit with constant irritation that you can't shake, that anger eventually boils over into hatred.

Like any other emotion, hatred has levels. It can be a flash in the pan, or it can become a permanent fixture. You can direct it at a person, an object, a whole nation, animals, nature—the reasons behind it are endless.

Here's a mild example: I love chocolate, but I absolutely loathe Brussels sprouts. Okay, if someone serves me Brussels sprouts and forces me to eat them, I'm going to feel angry at that person. If they lock me in a basement and feed me nothing but Brussels sprouts every single day, I’ll be seriously tempted to start hating them.😁.
But, (to answer the second question), there's also a chance I might suddenly discover how great Brussels sprouts actually taste. In that case, the hatred turns into affection—both for the sprouts and for the person who forced my hand, whether they meant to or not. I'd realize everything in life is relative.😁 Or, I could just stop eating entirely and starve to death, but then that would basically be a form of self-hatred, right?😁
So, love is what liberates me from hatred. That's why I can't accept the idea that they are opposites.

The solution is always within us. Either I take an axe to the person forcing those sprouts on me, or I learn to love the damn sprouts. It all comes down to how conscious and aware I am of the situation.

Second, I don't believe hatred is the opposite of love.

Third, hatred crops up the moment our lives become dependent on how everyone else behaves. It happens when we feel trapped and inflexible, when we refuse to allow ourselves the power of choice. Because every negative emotion, including hatred, carries a seed of liberation within it.
The problem with emotions, though, is that they are exactly what they say they are: emotions. They are irrational, instinctive reactions triggered by outside forces. And you have to let them out. When you're pissed off, be pissed off! Smash some plates and glasses!😁 Then, sit down and actually think about why and what made you so angry. Otherwise, we risk losing our compass and our freedom of choice, sinking straight into hatred.

It all depends on us and how big our "Ego" is and whether we can perceive this; just know that around the corner, love (mostly self-love) is waiting to help us out.

P.S. S. Esse, this probably belongs on the psychology subforum.😁😉

illegale said:Love and affection can easily turn into hatred. And vice versa, too. Now, why is that?

I suspect it’s a psychological defense mechanism—basically, when someone opens up in a direction they just can't handle (since being vulnerable is essentially the gateway to love, because it allows you to actually connect with others). Once someone gets burned like that, instead of just accepting the fact that they misjudged the situation and moving on, this stubborn psychological reflex kicks in, perceiving the other person as a threat. I mean, how does someone you loved five minutes ago suddenly become a threat? What kind of "threat" is that even supposed to be? Isn't hatred just one of those mechanisms we should be outgrowing? Or better yet, *should* be able to?

Because at the end of the day, hatred hurts the person harboring it the most.

I wonder, I really do... isn't the mechanism you're describing just that—a mechanism that manifests through various shades of emotion to camouflage the true feeling, which is the hardest thing to reach? Maybe hatred is something else entirely. If I find it hard to talk about love, I find it even harder to talk about hate. We speak of love as if we didn't already know it, just as we wouldn't enjoy the warmth of the Sun if there weren't frost, but... I have felt hatred in others, though it wasn't necessarily directed at me; people mostly just nagged me while they were busy defending themselves from their own internal mechanisms. As for myself, I've never truly felt hatred toward others, as long as I was loving and continue to love. So what is the reality here? Does this negate the possibility that love and hate are two sides of the same Idea? Personally, I don't think so. We are microcosms. Ideas, the Absolute upon which the spiritual—and subsequently the material—world rests (or is it the other way around?), reflect through us. We are the vessels for everything; it is all within us, yet we only manage to live out a tiny (yet massive!) fraction of that enormous burden/blessing. That's why I can sense hatred in others without needing to express it myself. That's why I can love without having to hate. We can be brimming with hatred that we can't stomach, so we mask it with pretty words and fake postures (mechanisms), or we can be overflowing with love that we don't know how to show, so we act out rudely and feel threatened (mechanisms)...

Bipolarity... you claim you can love without ever knowing hatred, but let’s be real, don't you also know exactly what it feels like to hate? Surely you recognize that sensation deep down...
The mere fact that you carry the memory of hatred creates a conscious awareness of it—a fundamental knowledge of what hate is. And isn't that precisely why you might actually understand how to love, or perhaps why you're capable of loving even more intensely? Hatred serves as a teacher for love.
If I look at it through that lens, hatred can't truly be seen as a negative force. Instead, it functions in service of the good.
Hatred tests the good, forcing it to question itself over and over again, providing the friction necessary for it to prove its own existence.
So, did love invent hatred?
But maybe it doesn't even matter if we assert that it did.
What matters is realizing that hatred ultimately works for love, because within itself, it holds the potential for love to emerge.

Let’s try flipping the script: suppose there is only hatred, and it is hatred that invents love.
In that scenario, hatred would conjure love specifically to annihilate itself. Because that is exactly what love does—it nullifies hate.
And then I find myself wondering...
Is the ultimate goal of hatred simply to cease to exist?
To answer that, wouldn't we have to ask ourselves what the actual purpose of everything in existence is?
Is it to persist, or is it to vanish?

If the goal is persistence, then hatred cannot possibly invent love, because love would just end the cycle.
But if the goal is vanishing, then love can indeed spring from the ashes of hatred.

Do you people see where this is going?

I certainly don't.😁🙂

All I can say is what I personally lean toward, what I actually do.
And until I figure out exactly who this "I" is, I won't ever truly know if I'm right.
That process of discovering my true self will probably take my entire life.

And I have to admit, I'll never truly know, yet somehow, I'll always know.

This concept of never feels completely unprovable and out of reach to me right now.
Yet, this idea of always is what shapes every opportunity I encounter throughout my life, acting as a mirror that reflects whether I am being good... or bad.

manwe said:Well, this is a heavy one...
Is this whole thread actually just about hatred!? Have we all collectively lost our minds here?...

Can someone please break this down for me: what even is hate?
Is it just the opposite of love? Does John Walker74 think hate is to a motor what a brake is?
Do we equate love with creation and hate with destruction?
Or is it simply love equals good and hate equals evil?
I want everyone to weigh in on what they think hate is, but most importantly, I’m curious about this: can hate ever have positive consequences—not from the perspective of the person hating (fine, I'm acknowledging the human nature of hate), but from some broader, more objective standpoint?

You act like I have all the answers, but honestly, the more I think I know, the more I realize how little I actually understand.
Are you really going to sit there and go hunting for even more "knowledge"😁?

If you want things for me that I don't want for myself, then I suppose that means you hate me.
But how am I supposed to be certain about what I truly want or don't want, when the actual impact of any given event might not show itself until much later?
Your supposed "evil" could very well turn out to be my ultimate good.

So, in that case, how can I ever say for sure that you actually hate me?

😉

Look, if we’re talking purely from a subjective angle—assuming our baseline goal is love—then love becomes the yardstick. It’s the standard we use to define hate. But that creates this immediate imbalance right out of the gate, making it impossible to truly define either one fairly, because let's face it: humans naturally lean toward one side more than the other, don't we? If you're someone who's leaning harder into hatred, how do you even begin to frame your thoughts? You can't really get a clear picture until you step back, rise above those gut impulses, and try to look at everything from an objective distance.

Love builds things up. But it can tear them down, too.
Hate destroys. But it can create, as well (same deal, just flip the order).

It’s entirely possible that both are just different intensities of the exact same thing.

replying to manweu:

Yeah, hate can actually have positive outcomes. Just like love can leave a trail of destruction. At their core, these concepts are just pure abstractions—it's people or specific circumstances that give them weight (again, it all comes down to human perception and how we react to what's happening around us). (And no, I haven't found a way to escape this damn relativity yet, ugh! 😁)

p.s. manweu, are all your buddies this brain-dead?😁 😉🙂

Hatred just isn't the answer. 🙂

There’s this one line floating around that says "never underestimate the healing power of hatred". It’s an interesting thought because hate and love actually share a common middle ground: obsession. I've seen it happen plenty of times in my own life—how something that starts out as genuine, pure affection can slowly morph into this all-consuming fixation. It happens way more often in human relationships than people care to admit.
When you find yourself stuck in that loop, sometimes the only way to actually break free is to lean into temporary resentment. You have to feel that anger just to snap out of it. If that hatred eventually settles into simple indifference, then you know you've finally found the solution to moving on from what was lost.

slavko said:Love and hate are just too far apart; they can't get close, let alone swap places.😎

Hmm. Okay, but what even is hate? Why? For what purpose?

Pandora says
On this earthly plane (hehe...), love and hate are actually the exact same thing, which is why they can morph into one another... it’s basically proof they’re identical.

But hold up, Pandora, are emptiness and love also "identical"? I'm asking you seriously here. Actually, since your take on philosophy seems halfway coherent, I might start a new thread just to prove it—or to let you prove me wrong. Because everything you're saying boils down to "everything is one" and "love is everything." That's fine, but can you actually go any deeper than that?

essenca says
What is love without its role alongside hate?

Yeah, true. It feels like this is a classic issue with people who view everything through a Yin and Yang lens. But first off, do you really think hate is the opposite of love? To me, it feels more like emptiness is the real opposite of love.

gothica says
Personally, I don't hate anyone, but there are definitely people I just don't like.

Have you ever actually hated someone? Like, did your feelings for someone flip from positive to negative overnight? Did you actually love them before?

mali zmaj says
Secondly, I don't think hate is the opposite of love.

Thirdly, hate shows up when our lives become dependent on how everyone else acts; when we feel trapped, inflexible, and lose our ability to choose. Because any negative emotion—hate included—actually carries a sense of liberation within it.
The problem with emotions, though, is that they are just what they are: emotions. They're irrational, instinctive reactions triggered by stuff happening around us. And you have to let them out. When we're pissed, we should be pissed—smash some plates and glasses! And then sit down and think about why and what made us so angry. Otherwise, we risk losing our compass and our freedom of choice, sinking straight into hate.

Yeah, okay. Second point, I'm with you. Third point, sounds pretty interesting. The only thing is, I find emotions just as understandable as anything else. But hey, we agree on the "sit down and think about it" part 🙂. Let me ask you about that idea that hate offers liberation. I know people who hate the world. They don't look free to me... if anything, they look the opposite.

man, what's the deal with
everyone just spill it... tell me what you guys think about hate. specifically this: can hate actually have positive consequences? and I don't mean from the perspective of the person doing the hating (yeah, yeah, I get how human nature works here), but looking at the bigger picture... like, from a broader angle?

hm, you agree that hate isn't good for the person carrying it, right? but if we're talking about the bigger picture, maybe hate makes it easier for the good guys to step up and be good... kind of like how 🙂 works.