Rape: Fact or Fiction?

frozentiger6 · 2003-03-22T16:55:00+00:00

Everyone knows the standard definition of rape. Basically, it's any sexual act performed without consent. Nowadays, the legal system hands out massive sentence…

frozentiger6 Active MemberOP

211 messages
joined Apr 2007

#41 · Mar 25, 2003

Aganor said:Look, N. Wind,
do you even realize who you're actually arguing with here?
You're going toe-to-toe with these nationalist thugs and delinquents—people whose consciences should be eating them alive after all the horrific rapes committed throughout Canada and America. They just want everyone to shut up and forgive them so they can sleep at night.

Only lowlifes try to bring up the topic of sexual assault in this specific way. They do it because they're looking for some kind of absolution from anyone in this thread, hoping to turn a brutal crime into some polite, academic debate just to minimize how horrific and criminal it actually is.

And if this isn't a philosophical discussion, it should have been obvious to you by now!
Honestly, this would be better suited for a religious debate; there’s a much stronger connection there than there is to philosophy.

You could probably have a decent conversation about this from a scientific standpoint too, but certainly not through the primitive lens these people are using!
Stop trivializing such a massive issue and take this into a legal arena instead.

The moral reality is undeniable, so there's no need to debate it. Rape is a vile crime that demands the strictest punishment possible.
Best,

The only thing primitive here is your argument.

Save the moral lecturing for someone else; maybe try teaching the people in your own life.
Spare us the flood of subjective opinions.

Drew Williams21 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Mar 2003

#42 · Mar 25, 2003

north wind said:What kind of comparisons are these? 🙄 It feels like you’re trying to downplay rape in two ways: 1. by gender—acting like men and women are equally capable of raping the opposite sex; 2. by trying to equate actual, substantiated accusations with mere insinuations. I mean, seriously, how can you even compare them?😲

1. Men and women ARE NOT equally capable of raping the opposite sex—rape is overwhelmingly male sexual violence against women and/or children. The reverse scenarios are massive exceptions and practically negligible.
2. What kind of sane woman, with at least an average Google intelligence, would ever go out and file a false rape accusation???? 😲😕 Look, rape is proven in court. If evidence is hard enough to gather even when a victim was actually assaulted, how could anyone expect to win a trial based on some fabricated claims?😕 Do you have any common sense at all?

...maybe you could lend me a bit of yours?...

downplaying rape in 2 aspects
1. regarding gender
Read my post again... I'm talking about rape and how hard it is for me to imagine that happening to me... where did I even mention genders? Maybe a woman might find it difficult or impossible to commit an act of rape against an adult man, but what about another man??
He'd abuse me just as much, mentally and physically, as he would a woman.

2. What kind of sane woman, with at least an average Google intelligence, would ever go out and file a false rape accusation????
That’s debatable, sure—but since that's how the topic was framed (even if I didn't start it), I'll answer you: some reckless or vengeful idiot actually *would* do that, and those cases show up in US courtrooms quite often.

Chloe Murphy3 Member

29 messages
joined Mar 2003

#43 · Mar 25, 2003

cabon:
so what if the guy pulled a knife or a gun and threatened them... then people start talking about medical exams like they're some kind of smoking gun... total nonsense.

It’s pretty relative, I guess. Even back then, certain injuries still show up during a medical exam and get categorized as evidence, anyway

- some reckless or vengeful idiot would do that, and those kinds of cases pop up all the time in US courts.

And they're super easy to spot! Lying under oath might seem simple, but it's actually really hard to fake it convincingly. Most people just aren't capable of pulling that off.

But I'd really highlight this:

.n.wind: you're trying to equate actual solid charges with some random insinuations about rape. Like, how can you even do that?

That is exactly what makes this thread so disgusting!

placidorca16 Active Member

166 messages
joined Jan 2021

#44 · Mar 25, 2003

placidorca16 said:[B... What kind of sane woman—I mean, someone with at least an average IBM—would ever go out of her way to file a false rape accusation? Sure, maybe some impulsive or vengeful idiot would try it, and those cases pop up in court more often than you'd think. [/B]

Alright then, let's see them. Give me the names. 😎

Matthew Lopez11 Member

38 messages
joined Feb 2003

#45 · Mar 25, 2003

Eowyn:

At some point, a woman simply surrenders because she realizes there is no way out. In that state of total numbness and shock, she dissociates from her own body and just prays to God that it will be over as soon as possible.

😢 😢 😢

Is it possible to strip away more than just physical safety—to essentially steal a person's respect for their own body and sexuality?

I believe that due to biological functions and physical makeup, women experience sexuality on a much deeper level than men do.
Because of that, I truly believe an act of violence like this hits a woman far harder than what we call the rape of a man.

(I also think men suffer much more deeply from what I’d call "emotional rape." It happens to them at every turn; they are humiliated and hurt, and it doesn't even have to involve anything sexual... but there is absolutely NO acknowledgment of it. Women generally navigate emotions with more ease...
but the impact is just as devastating.)

In a sexual act, a woman lets someone in ....and she is far more selective about that than a man is... I don't think I even need to explain why.
No modern rationalization can ever be stronger than that profound , instinctive reality...

Eo:

When a woman is raped, it creates a very specific state of consciousness.
She isn't silent because she's afraid. The process works entirely differently. After the act, she is in shock. She doesn't even fully grasp what happened to her. She is split: her body is one thing, and her soul is somewhere else entirely. The reaction is pure revulsion. She tries to wash and scrub her body just to somehow negate the act itself. It’s an unconscious, yet completely natural response.
Then comes the guilt. Hours upon hours are spent spiraling, wondering if she did something wrong or if she somehow caused the whole situation. That is why women stay silent. They try to sweep the event under the rug, hoping that if they ignore it, it might just vanish.

Think about this for a moment before you start talking nonsense about legal penalties or other trivialities that are supposed to serve as some kind of satisfaction for what is, frankly, an amputation of the soul.

Think about it next time you see a girl out in the world who seems to be holding herself tightly together—shoulders and neck tense, eyes cast down, jaw clenched. She carries herself as if she’s been stabbed in the solar plexus, with a poison spreading toward her heart that causes a constant spasm, a wound that feels like it has split her very being in two...

...I don't know how to describe that phenomenon more precisely... but I have noticed it often.
And it isn't always as overtly obvious
as my description might make it seem.
Just look closer... in the streets, in a grocery store.
And don't go thinking that your unsolicited intervention would be welcomed.

It's the upper part of a body that, out of helplessness, pain, and shame, has rejected the lower half.
How do you restore their capacity for joy and love?
How?

(Our film
foxes
does an incredible job portraying the reality of sexual violence against both women and men.)

Exactly! And honestly, I am sick to death of the moronic jokes regarding rape and survivors that we hear from idiots... everywhere you look.

jadetinker85 Regular

446 messages
joined Jan 2024

#46 · Mar 25, 2003

I kind of like the idea that, as a woman, I could assault anyone and likely face zero legal consequences for it 😁

Drew Williams21 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Mar 2003

#47 · Mar 25, 2003

Drew Williams21 says:
It’s pretty subjective—even back then, you’d still see specific injuries during a medical exam that get logged as evidence, anyway
And they're incredibly easy to spot! A lie, no matter how simple it seems, is actually a nightmare to construct convincingly—very few people have the actual chops to pull it off.

I had no idea physical evidence from an exam could still be used like that,
so does that mean responding to the original question is basically saying any form of sexual assault is pretty much easy to prove? If so, isn't this whole "what if" debate just a waste of breath?

Drew Williams21 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Mar 2003

#48 · Mar 25, 2003

north wind said:Come on, give me some actual examples. 😎

...And how am I supposed to do that?—just by trying to remember which specific newspaper I saw it in?

Matthew Lopez11 Member

38 messages
joined Feb 2003

#49 · Mar 25, 2003

🙄 Philosophers, may love be with you all 🙂 !!!!

Chloe Murphy3 Member

29 messages
joined Mar 2003

#50 · Mar 25, 2003

cabon :...and even if this whole "what if" debate is just pointless...

I guess it's safe to say nothing about these situations is easy—playing down the risks or being naive usually ends in a total disaster.

George Jackson21 Newcomer

4 messages
joined Mar 2003

#51 · Mar 26, 2003

placidorca16 said:I suppose men and women aren't equally capable of committing sexual assault against the opposite sex. In my view, rape is largely a form of male violence directed at women or children, while any instances to the contrary seem to be rare exceptions that are almost negligible.

Just for the sake of argument, let's say we take a hypothetical scenario where someone close to you—maybe a brother, a partner, or a good friend—was part of that small number of men who have been assaulted. I guess you wouldn't call it "virtually negligible" then, would you?
The reality is that while their numbers are smaller than those of women who have been assaulted, even a single case is far from insignificant, I guess.
I guess that kind of logic feels a bit absurd to me. You eventually have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere... like saying 50 is negligible, but once you hit 51, suddenly it matters. Maybe it's just how we see things, I suppose. 🙄 Those fifty might seem insignificant, but this one individual makes all the difference. I mean, we’re talking about people here. I guess even just one person truly matters.
Just wanted to add that I thought your first post was pretty good. 👍 I guess you might have written this without really thinking it through, or maybe something else happened.
And those people above joking about wanting to be assaulted... it’s just gross. Honestly, it seems pretty pathetic.🙂

George Jackson21 Newcomer

4 messages
joined Mar 2003

#52 · Mar 26, 2003

jadetinker85 said:I kind of like the idea that as a woman, I could assault anyone and probably wouldn't face any legal consequences for it.😁

I felt like I really had to highlight this one.🙄
Just as a joke, I guess.🤮

Alex Ramirez40 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Feb 2003

#53 · Mar 26, 2003

Alright guys, I've got this wild one for you... it's about a sexual assault and some seriously creepy supernatural fallout. Seriously, just give it a read, you won't regret it.
http://www.darkicon.com/Library/slasher1.htm

placidorca16 Active Member

166 messages
joined Jan 2021

#54 · Mar 26, 2003

George Jackson21 said:Look, let's just play along—for the sake of the argument—and assume, hypothetically, that someone close to you, like a brother, a boyfriend, or a friend, was one of those men... would you still call it "virtually negligible" then??
Okay, look—the fact is there are fewer of them than women, sure, but even ONE case isn't negligible!
Your logic is honestly kind of absurd because you have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere... like, we decide 50 people is "negligible," but once it hits 51, suddenly it's a tragedy 🙄—those first 50 don't matter, but this one guy makes all the difference? We're talking about actual human beings here! I’ll say it again: even one person is not negligible!
I'm just saying—your first post was... well, something 👍—and I'm pretty sure you wrote it without really thinking it through...
And these guys above, joking about wanting to be victims... it's just gross and pathetic...🙂

Yes, I used the phrase "virtually negligible"—but I meant it as a statistical description of one phenomenon relative to the scale of another, which I already explained, not as a specific headcount. So, I wasn't saying what you think I was, nor is that my point. 🙄

jadetinker85 Regular

446 messages
joined Jan 2024

#55 · Mar 26, 2003

George Jackson21 said:I had to point this one out specifically. 🙄
It’s basically just a joke. 🤮

What's your issue with it? Most decent guys don't see any problem here. 🙄 😁

Anonymous Veteran

3.6K messages
joined May 2005

#56 · Mar 28, 2003

Eowyn:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There comes a moment when a woman just breaks. When you realize there’s absolutely nowhere left to turn, the sheer stupidity and shock of it all makes you feel like you're completely detached from your own body. You just find yourself praying to God that it'll all be over soon.
__________________________________________________ _

But that feeling of being disconnected? That doesn't just vanish overnight. If it ever leaves you at all....

Larry Scott5 Active Member

69 messages
joined Dec 2005

#57 · Mar 29, 2003

Johnny said:But seriously, how do you actually distinguish a consensual encounter from an assault? How can anyone be 100% certain that their partner isn't actually unwilling during the act?

You’ve gotta be joking, Johnny, right🙄?

If you aren't kidding, then honestly, I'm a little worried.

It’s incredibly obvious when someone isn't into it, even when you're just playing around in bed.
If it’s just part of some consensual roleplay between a man and a woman, you can feel that energy—that tension where one person is being "rough" and the other is leaning into it. But if a woman doesn't want to have sex, trust me, it is more than clear; her body, her words, her emotions, and her entire vibe will scream it at you. These are unmistakable signs that essentially shout "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

If you can't read those cues, she’s going to tell you "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" loud and clear enough for the whole neighborhood to hear, you get me?

At that point, any decent man would stop dead in his tracks, no matter how much he's craving it.

Because "no" means "no," especially when it's backed up by things like pulling away, pushing back, or even tears, for crying out loud.

😲😠

Larry Scott5 Active Member

69 messages
joined Dec 2005

#58 · Mar 29, 2003

Eowyn really nailed what happens to a survivor's mind and body; if you want clarity, go give her post a read.

There aren't any gray areas here, and I don't care who tries to tell me otherwise. Once she says "STOP" at the end of that sequence—it means STOP. Period. End of story.

I mean, seriously, imagine if I just lunged at you and every single nerve in your brain and body started screaming😢?

I’d venture to say I’d kill anyone who tried to assault me, and honestly, I think she’d be ready to fight tooth and nail too. I remember sitting in on a roundtable discussion a few years back involving an American non-profit, and I was covering the whole thing for the radio.

In one anonymous survey, every single woman stated they would be capable of killing their attacker.

So, just try to wrap your head around how horrific a crime actually has to be for someone to be certain they'd take a life in response.

It's a primal, instinctive reaction when someone tears through your soul and your physical self by force. It hits that most raw, animalistic part of you.

It's just devastating.

Jamie Johnson6 Member

37 messages
joined Mar 2003

#59 · Mar 29, 2003

nataniel said:I dare say I would kill someone attempting to rape me; I believe I'd be ready to pull the trigger without a second thought.

Every single woman in an anonymous poll stated she would be capable of killing her attacker.

And so on and so forth. The real question is whether you'd end up sitting in a prison cell because of one psychopath (which might happen here in the States, wouldn't it?)

I honestly can't wrap my head around how much inhumanity and prejudice can be gathered in one single place.
As for those who are throwing shade at this topic, 🙂 🙂 🙂
all while hiding behind a thin veil of philosophy...
Some women particularly baffle me...
It just serves as another reminder that anyone with an internet connection can post anything. 😢

Come on, if you lack basic humanity, at least use your brain: you don't need physical evidence left behind after an assault (especially since the psychological trauma remains), particularly when victims don't report it immediately, which is actually quite common. You all watch far too many movies; the cultural mindset has shifted away from the old Fox ways, and today, women don't stay silent out of "lost virtue," but precisely because of people like Johnny... especially if they work in law enforcement.🙄

Patrick Chase2 Member

45 messages
joined Mar 2003

#60 · Mar 30, 2003

Integrity?

Sure, people used to use that euphemism back in the day, but I don't think a single thing has actually changed...

One thing has definitely shifted since the days of "Fox" when it comes to how people show off their dominance:

Ever since cell phones became a thing, the real status symbol is whoever has the smaller

Rape: Fact or Fiction?

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