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Gun culture and laws: USA vs. European Union

Started by rowdytiger13 · · 👁 11 views · 112 replies

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Participants rowdytiger13coastalgull9hiddeneagle98frozendrifter7driftingtinkerBrenda Murphy3Richard Wilson4Christian Torres3Timothy Nelson5boldraven3Kate Gonzalez11cosmicgull52Sam Alvarez4Larry Phillips6Christian Bennett2Larry Diaz4lonegardenerMatthew Rodriguez9Roger Fowlercasualtiger2Paul Sanders5Noah SullivanWilliam Clark86Betty Ross6 …
cosmicgull52 cosmicgull52 Active Member
125 messages
joined Nov 2023
#61 ·
Timothy Nelson5 said:I mean, you really don't get it at all. You haven't even made the slightest effort to try and understand. I guess... maybe there just isn't much there to work with.
Yeah, you’re totally stuck in that bubble, even if Bibimir insists you aren't. I guess. Maybe.
Even though you’re living right there, I guess you still don't quite grasp the most basic principles of Western democratic civilization—you know, the very stuff that serves as the foundation for the American Revolution. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective, I suppose.
And at the heart of defending all those liberties—well, I guess you could say it comes down to this... The whole point of the Second Amendment... I mean, it's really about the right of citizens to hold their own weapons, just to ensure there's some kind of defense against any potential attempt by the government to establish tyranny. Or maybe that's just how it's supposed to work. It’s a heavy concept, I suppose. Keeping that balance between authority and individual liberty... it's complicated.

I guess... it’s actually the first time in history where this is happening. Not just for some elite class or their private militias, but for everyone. Every single citizen finally has the right to bear arms. It’s a massive shift, really. All of us. Not just the people at the top.

Regarding what boldraven3 said—I think you’re completely off base there. How can you possibly think it's impossible? Of course it's possible... I mean, just look at Australia for instance. It's a massive territory, ten times the size of any single state in the USA, yet they don't come anywhere close to our levels of crime and homicide. I guess it just goes to show that scale isn't everything, though maybe I'm oversimplifying things.

I guess most of the USA doesn't actually deal with crime any more than you'd see in Western Europe or Australia. It’s probably exaggerated, maybe... I don't know. Just feels like that.
And that’s exactly where you find it—those rural stretches of the country where you mostly run into white Americans who just happen to own mountains of legal firearms. I guess that's just how it is out there.

It’s a grim reality when you actually sit down and look at the numbers, I suppose. About 75% of homicides in the USA take place within urban ghettos and their immediate surroundings. Then there's the demographic breakdown—roughly 53% of all murders are committed by Black Americans, with a significant portion of the remainder being Latinos. Most of this seems to boil down to short-range, illegal firearms used during gang disputes or those messy robberies tied to the drug trade and whatnot. It's just a heavy cycle, really.

So, look, I was just sitting here thinking about those crime statistics we keep seeing, and I can't help but feel a bit puzzled by the math. I mean, how does that even work? You look at the numbers and it’s all over the place. For instance, Russia supposedly has a homicide rate twice as high as the USA. Then you jump over to Brazil, where it’s five times higher, or Mexico, which is six times the rate. And if you really start digging into the chaos, Venezuela is fifteen times higher, and Honduras is eighteen times higher. It’s… well, it’s a lot to wrap your head around, I guess. Just feels like a massive, messy puzzle.

It isn’t really about whether it’s possible—because, honestly, anyone can do it—but more about the mindset behind it. I mean, seeing how Kyle carries himself, especially considering his age... it just feels off. It reminds me of those regions in Africa where you see child soldiers and various warlords running the show, and yet we see this exact same thing happening right here in the USA. Nowhere else in the world does it look quite like this. Doesn't that say something to you? I can't help but wonder if there's something fundamentally broken in the way people think, or maybe just in the entire narrative being pushed across the USA. I guess.

Well, I suppose there isn't much else to say, really. Just... wow. Or, I guess, oh my god. It’s one of those moments where you just have to sit there and process it all, though processing feels like a bit of an overstatement at this point. Everything just feels so incredibly heavy lately. Maybe that's just how it is now. I don't know.
You’re telling me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. I guess... maybe you're right, in some sense. It's easy to feel that way sometimes, isn't it? Everything feels so fragmented lately. I suppose I just offer my perspective, however flawed it might be.
You haven't the slightest clue, I suppose.

Look, I don't think the geography of it all really matters here... at least not in the way you're suggesting. Having a rifle tucked away somewhere safe isn't necessarily a bad thing, I suppose—it might even be the smart move in this climate. But that’s a completely different issue from what we consider "normal" in the USA, which some people (quite wrongly, if you ask me) somehow equate with freedom. That isn't freedom... not by a long shot. It's just plain old paranoia, violence, and living in a state of constant threat... well, at least mentally speaking.

Let’s just recap the facts here—it seems like a lot of people miss this point. A massive majority of Americans carrying legal firearms aren't out there committing crimes; I mean, they don't even account for 10% of homicides. Most of those instances are actually just legitimate self-defense cases. The vast majority of violent crime is driven by criminals using illegal weapons... I guess that's just how the math works out.

When you look at rifles like the AR-15 that Kyle used, plus all the stuff those totalitarian types and various fascists are trying to ban... it honestly barely accounts for like 1.5% of homicides. I mean, a huge chunk of those cases are actually just self-defense situations, much like what happened with Kyle.

As the legally and fairly elected 46th President of the United States, Joseph Robinette Biden, stated, the state possesses the atomic bomb.

As the highly respected and insightful cosmicgull52 has written here multiple times, this is the single most foolish thesis regarding the Second Amendment as it is currently implemented. With today's legally available firearms, citizens cannot defend themselves from tyranny. To make this argument valid, Stingers, Javelins, and grenades would need to be available at Walmart.

The only true purpose of a semi-automatic rifle, besides hunting, is mass murder. And, naturally, idiotic posing on social media and at fascist truth rallies. Any other form of self-defense in real-life circumstances can be handled with a handgun.
Kate Gonzalez11 Kate Gonzalez11 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2023
#62 ·
boldraven3 said:Which "everyone else" are we talking about here? The folks living in Europe where open carry is basically a fever dream, yet they still love to chime in on the perks of American culture on forums like this?

Comparing cars to an AR-15 is honestly beneath further discussion...

Are you trying to turn your personal mantra into some kind of dogma?
Open carry in Europe? Gun laws in Europe? All I can say is that the population there is quite effectively pacified, though there are certainly a few bright outliers.

Equating a vehicle to an AR-15 is unworthy of further debate because your entire logic seems stuck on the idea that "guns = bad."
How many crimes have been committed using legal semi-automatic or automatic firearms, and how many people have been killed or injured by them?
Now, compare those numbers to the crimes committed using a car or a blunt object (or whatever other tool fits whichever legal classification you prefer), and the resulting deaths or injuries caused by them.

Your fear is irrational; it stems purely from your visceral distaste for firearms.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#63 ·
Brenda Murphy3 said:😁😒

Do you honestly think someone who is at the mental level of calling Trump a "4D chess genius," writing all sorts of other similar idiocy, and obviously missing the mark completely—should be telling anyone else that they don't understand something? Ha ha... man, there's no shame and no sense left... it always goes like this, doesn't it?

Just keep going, buddy, in your little magazine-style commentary... until your next failed obsession... "Oh, I live in a fascist state, which is part of an even bigger fascist entity, and we won't let free people like you defend yourselves with weapons"... damn. What an infantile way of thinking...
Just pack up and head to the USA, arm yourself, build a bunker, and wait for the evil state to come for you... because that's exactly the kind of "smart guy" they need 🤣, but until then, we "fascists" will just live normally and freely... along with that "genius 4D chess player" who supposedly sees three moves ahead...🤣

(The American Revolution is the foundation of Western civilization? Really? Ha ha... I bet you don't even know what that means...)

I’m actually challenging you to go back to that USA thread and list just one legitimate mess Trump caused, and maybe one actual win for Biden—just one of each. And please, make them real examples, not some fantasy scenario cooked up by mainstream media outlets. That doesn't count...

unknown:
(The American Revolution is the bedrock of Western civilization? Seriously? Ha... I doubt you even grasp what that implies...)
Most modern democratic nations essentially have the US Constitution baked into their very foundation... being the first of its kind. People love to bring up the French Revolution as the starting point, but the American one happened first, and honestly, a lot of those principles were just... copied from us...
Kate Gonzalez11 Kate Gonzalez11 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2023
#64 ·
cosmicgull52 said:As the legally and fairly elected 46th President of the United States, Joseph Robinette Biden, stated, the state possesses the atomic bomb.

As the highly respected and insightful cosmicgull52 has written here multiple times, this is the single most foolish thesis regarding the Second Amendment as it is currently implemented. With today's legally available firearms, citizens cannot defend themselves from tyranny. To make this argument valid, Stingers, Javelins, and grenades would need to be available at Walmart.

The only true purpose of a semi-automatic rifle, besides hunting, is mass murder. And, naturally, idiotic posing on social media and at fascist truth rallies. Any other form of self-defense in real-life circumstances can be handled with a handgun.

You have to assume that in the event of a conflict like that (a civil war), the repressive apparatus won't act as a monolith, especially in the USA.
On top of that, your conceptual reasoning is frankly juvenile, and you're jumping into the heart of the conflict like someone who's completely lost their way.
Sam Alvarez4 Sam Alvarez4 Regular
303 messages
joined Sep 2014
#65 ·
Gun culture? 🤔
Just absurd...
frozendrifter7 frozendrifter7 Member
42 messages
joined Oct 2013
#66 ·
cosmicgull52 said:As the legally and fairly elected 46th President of the United States, Joseph Robinette Biden, stated, the state possesses the atomic bomb.

As the highly respected and insightful cosmicgull52 has written here multiple times, this is the single most foolish thesis regarding the Second Amendment as it is currently implemented. With today's legally available firearms, citizens cannot defend themselves from tyranny. To make this argument valid, Stingers, Javelins, and grenades would need to be available at Walmart.

The only true purpose of a semi-automatic rifle, besides hunting, is mass murder. And, naturally, idiotic posing on social media and at fascist truth rallies. Any other form of self-defense in real-life circumstances can be handled with a handgun.

But why bother with a pistol when a rifle makes the whole thing significantly easier?
Larry Phillips6 Larry Phillips6 Member
10 messages
joined Jun 2018
#67 ·
boldraven3 said:Exactly.

A friend of mine lives in Texas, and she once sent me a photo of a guy she was standing behind in line at Dunkin' while waiting for her coffee. He was right in front of her, placing his order, and sticking this massive rifle out of his backpack—or whatever he was carrying—and it looked almost intentional, you know? Like he wanted everyone to see exactly what he was packing. I couldn't tell if it was an AR-15 specifically, but regardless, there was no missing the fact that the guy was armed to the teeth.

Personally, I'm glad that carrying weapons around whenever you feel like it is illegal where I live. And I highly doubt that any of those people singing loudly about "gun culture" would be thrilled to run into armed individuals in a preschool hallway while waiting for their kids, or outside a school, in a grocery store, at Starbucks, or just anywhere else...

It's just basic paranoia, which then ends up feeding into everyone else's sense of paranoia.

Open carry is its own special brand of stupidity.

So, these people proudly flaunt their weapons thinking they’re somehow safer now.

They completely miss the point: if someone actually wants to pull off an ambush—like a thief or an active shooter—the people openly carrying guns are going to be the very first targets. You'll have a bullet in your forehead before you even realize you're under attack.
Kate Gonzalez11 Kate Gonzalez11 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2023
#68 ·
Larry Phillips6 said:Open carry is its own special brand of stupidity.

So, these people proudly flaunt their weapons thinking they’re somehow safer now.

They completely miss the point: if someone actually wants to pull off an ambush—like a thief or an active shooter—the people openly carrying guns are going to be the very first targets. You'll have a bullet in your forehead before you even realize you're under attack.

Honestly, they should just have that right taken away since they're clearly that reckless.
This whole idea about a thief(!) using an ambush😁 or an active shooter😁, especially the part about getting a bullet to the head😵, really doesn't need much commentary. We all know that thieves or active shooters aren't exactly operating at the skill level of Chris Kyle or, even better, Simo Häyhä.🤣
All your post is missing is a "thief SWAT team" or something along those lines.
Larry Phillips6 Larry Phillips6 Member
10 messages
joined Jun 2018
#69 ·
Kate Gonzalez11 said:Honestly, they should just have that right taken away since they're clearly that reckless.
This whole idea about a thief(!) using an ambush😁 or an active shooter😁, especially the part about getting a bullet to the head😵, really doesn't need much commentary. We all know that thieves or active shooters aren't exactly operating at the skill level of Chris Kyle or, even better, Simo Häyhä.🤣
All your post is missing is a "thief SWAT team" or something along those lines.

Look, if you have bad intentions, who are you going after first? The guy you already know is armed.
If you're trying to swipe someone's gun, who are you going to target? The one where it's obvious he’s carrying.

Yeah, ambushes happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZM...SelfProtection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPsG...SelfProtection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0i...SelfProtection

Got anything else to say besides this childish post that says absolutely nothing of substance?
Kate Gonzalez11 Kate Gonzalez11 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2023
#70 ·
Larry Phillips6 said:Look, if you have bad intentions, who are you going after first? The guy you already know is armed.
If you're trying to swipe someone's gun, who are you going to target? The one where it's obvious he’s carrying.

Yeah, ambushes happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZM...SelfProtection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPsG...SelfProtection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0i...SelfProtection

Got anything else to say besides this childish post that says absolutely nothing of substance?

Generally speaking, yes—the number of ambushes in states where open carry is legal is rising uncontrollably and has become a serious issue.
It’s pretty obvious who is pushing an infantile narrative here.
I would have been happy to address this more directly in my earlier post, but the forum rules won't allow me to.
Christian Bennett2 Christian Bennett2 Member
23 messages
joined Apr 2022
#71 ·
The USA is actually an anachronistic society in many respects; we just have a warped perception of reality because we're constantly bombarded by their mass culture.
boldraven3 boldraven3 Member
12 messages
joined Nov 2023
#72 ·
Kate Gonzalez11 said:Are you trying to turn your personal mantra into some kind of dogma?
Open carry in Europe? Gun laws in Europe? All I can say is that the population there is quite effectively pacified, though there are certainly a few bright outliers.

Equating a vehicle to an AR-15 is unworthy of further debate because your entire logic seems stuck on the idea that "guns = bad."
How many crimes have been committed using legal semi-automatic or automatic firearms, and how many people have been killed or injured by them?
Now, compare those numbers to the crimes committed using a car or a blunt object (or whatever other tool fits whichever legal classification you prefer), and the resulting deaths or injuries caused by them.

Your fear is irrational; it stems purely from your visceral distaste for firearms.

You know, you're absolutely right—I was just so completely stunned by the sheer brilliance, the creativity, and of course, the relentless originality of the argument that "it's people who kill, not guns," that I didn't even know how to react. Now that you've so skillfully enlightened me, I realize I'm basically the equivalent of an AR-15 owner myself... after all, I have knives in my kitchen, and since we've established that people kill people and not weapons, I guess I'm part of the problem too.

So, while we're at it, I'd love for you to enlighten me a bit regarding the special place the Second Amendment holds within the constitutional order as the very foundation for all other freedoms. 🍿 My brain was just too fried from fear to process such vital facts before today, but I think I'm finally ready!

The floor is yours, professor! 🐔
cosmicgull52 cosmicgull52 Active Member
125 messages
joined Nov 2023
#73 ·
I can't recall where I first saw that joke. I think it was some parody of a gangsta rap song.😁

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE

I KILL PEOPLE

...WITH GUNS
Kate Gonzalez11 Kate Gonzalez11 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2023
#74 ·
boldraven3 said:You know, you're absolutely right—I was just so completely stunned by the sheer brilliance, the creativity, and of course, the relentless originality of the argument that "it's people who kill, not guns," that I didn't even know how to react. Now that you've so skillfully enlightened me, I realize I'm basically the equivalent of an AR-15 owner myself... after all, I have knives in my kitchen, and since we've established that people kill people and not weapons, I guess I'm part of the problem too.

So, while we're at it, I'd love for you to enlighten me a bit regarding the special place the Second Amendment holds within the constitutional order as the very foundation for all other freedoms. 🍿 My brain was just too fried from fear to process such vital facts before today, but I think I'm finally ready!

The floor is yours, professor! 🐔

I don't know if you are truly the equivalent of an AR-15 owner, but I am 120% certain that if someone decides to kill a person, they can do it just as "effectively" with an AR-15 or almost anything else—hence the argument that people kill, not weapons (where validity matters more than originality). As for whether you can defend yourself against any type of attack just as well with a knife as you could with an AR-15, I think discussing that is beside the point.
Furthermore, your suggestion that owning an AR-15 makes someone a murderer, or close to it, is just further proof that you aren't qualified to have a sober discussion about firearms without letting bias take over.
I don't feel the need to enlighten you; I suspect even a supernova would struggle to pierce through that level of darkness.
cosmicgull52 cosmicgull52 Active Member
125 messages
joined Nov 2023
#75 ·
Kate Gonzalez11 said:I don't know if you are truly the equivalent of an AR-15 owner, but I am 120% certain that if someone decides to kill a person, they can do it just as "effectively" with an AR-15 or almost anything else—hence the argument that people kill, not weapons (where validity matters more than originality). As for whether you can defend yourself against any type of attack just as well with a knife as you could with an AR-15, I think discussing that is beside the point.
Furthermore, your suggestion that owning an AR-15 makes someone a murderer, or close to it, is just further proof that you aren't qualified to have a sober discussion about firearms without letting bias take over.
I don't feel the need to enlighten you; I suspect even a supernova would struggle to pierce through that level of darkness.

What the actual fuck 🤦
Kate Gonzalez11 Kate Gonzalez11 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2023
#76 ·
cosmicgull52 said:What the actual fuck 🤦

What part of this isn't making sense to you?
Larry Diaz4 Larry Diaz4 Member
26 messages
joined Aug 2019
#77 ·
If you’re dreaming about having laws just like they do in the USA, honestly, just forget about it... We're dealing with the European Union here, where the whole rulebook is written differently. Even back when we were part of the EU, we were losing legal battles because things like, say, failing to seize weapons used in announced crimes quickly enough, just weren't handled the way they needed to be.
The USA isn't some simple, one-size-fits-all situation—it’s actually way more complicated than people realize. You can't just walk into any shop in any state and buy a firearm the exact same way. At the federal level, laws shift constantly depending on whoever happens to be in power. There are even really detailed breakdowns out there showing how those laws change and how certain ones have been struck down...
The real kicker is how the Supreme Court of the United States changed everything back in 2008 with the Heller v. DC ruling. They went with a 5-4 decision stating that gun ownership is an individual right, totally separate from militia service. That was a massive pivot from the Miller v. USA case back in 1939, where the court basically ruled that certain types of firearms weren't "reasonable" for militia use...

There’s even this one quirky regulation in a little town over in Utah where the head of the household is supposed to own a weapon—though, to be fair, there aren't really any penalties if they don't😁
And oh, I almost forgot! There’s also this really interesting legal interpretation coming out of a Texas Attorney General regarding guns and churches😁
lonegardener lonegardener Regular
347 messages
joined Apr 2010
#78 ·
cosmicgull52 said:As the legally and fairly elected 46th President of the United States, Joseph Robinette Biden, stated, the state possesses the atomic bomb.

As the highly respected and insightful cosmicgull52 has written here multiple times, this is the single most foolish thesis regarding the Second Amendment as it is currently implemented. With today's legally available firearms, citizens cannot defend themselves from tyranny. To make this argument valid, Stingers, Javelins, and grenades would need to be available at Walmart.

The only true purpose of a semi-automatic rifle, besides hunting, is mass murder. And, naturally, idiotic posing on social media and at fascist truth rallies. Any other form of self-defense in real-life circumstances can be handled with a handgun.

Honestly, that isn't exactly a groundbreaking observation.

To put it plainly, that logic is just as flawed as saying "a locked door won't stop a professional thief." (Which is a pretty terrible excuse for why you shouldn't bother locking your door at all).

The same applies here. It is undeniably EASIER to prevent tyranny when people are armed than when they aren't. Firearms act as a massive deterrent. No aspiring tyrant can establish absolute control without a whole army of enforcers behind them. And regardless of what technology those enforcers might have, it's always going to be easier to suppress an unarmed population than one that is armed. Therefore, being armed absolutely makes sense as a deterrent against tyranny, regardless of the "theoretical possibility" that a tyranny could still emerge despite it.
boldraven3 boldraven3 Member
12 messages
joined Nov 2023
#79 ·
cosmicgull52 said:I can't recall where I first saw that joke. I think it was some parody of a gangsta rap song.😁

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE

I KILL PEOPLE

...WITH GUNS

🙏🙏🙏

"MC Vagina is back in the building
Back in 2009 when I laid this track down
Still got no love for the cops
But still showing love for the curves
Haters, watch your backs because...

Guns don't kill people
Nah, uh-uh
I'm the one doing the killing
With guns"

.............

Good grief, this is going to be the soundtrack to my Thanksgiving dinner...😁
cosmicgull52 cosmicgull52 Active Member
125 messages
joined Nov 2023
#80 ·
boldraven3 said:🙏🙏🙏

"MC Vagina is back in the building
Back in 2009 when I laid this track down
Still got no love for the cops
But still showing love for the curves
Haters, watch your backs because...

Guns don't kill people
Nah, uh-uh
I'm the one doing the killing
With guns"

.............

Good grief, this is going to be the soundtrack to my Thanksgiving dinner...😁


😍

As for those white guys up north worrying about protecting their Second Amendment rights in the USA, well, in the spirit of Thanksgiving, you are correct. Smart. Informed. Rational. Well-intentioned. I am going to watch some football; a classic game is on. 😁

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