A - Austria

Chloe Sullivan88 said:You certainly get worked up the second someone shares an opinion on the American electoral system.

This is a forum for people who know the English language and want to debate everything from U.S. presidential elections and the situation in the Middle East to the Brexit referendum and elections in the United States. We only talk about the United States when there's an election happening.

I have never once seen an expat jump into a thread about the United Kingdom and claim that only Britons are allowed to speak on the matter, or that Americans have no right to question British democracy.

I simply don't see why anyone shouldn't be allowed to question a voting method, regardless of whether they are right or wrong.
Are we going to wait for someone from Saudi Arabia to pop up in a thread about Saudi Arabia and tell us to shut up because Saudis are satisfied with their own system?

There are no dogmas here, period. If you find that funny, fine, but this constant insistence that certain people shouldn't discuss American elections is bizarre for a forum like this.

And let's not forget, we're talking about private individuals. If the American ambassador were unhappy with media freedom in America and meddled in our internal affairs, one might express that dissatisfaction through a protest. Or are you actually suggesting that American diplomats are allowed to interfere in the domestic business of other nations, while forum users shouldn't question American elections on a public platform?

Even if we are talking about some extreme scenario where a Freedom Party member was out there carrying the biggest sign imaginable that simply screams "Ausländer Raus"🙂

Brenda Taylor13 said:Ugh, seriously, has anyone actually come up with a halfway decent explanation for why the mail-in ballot numbers are such a massive outlier compared to what we saw at the actual polling stations? Like, I mean, really think about it—at the precincts, Hofer pulled in 51%, but then you look at these mail-in ballots and suddenly the guy's sitting at 61%? That’s just... wow. Totally normal, right? Yeah, sure, just a totally "normal" gap.

If you take the arguments from the movie Hacking Democracy at face value, you’d conclude a polling station is hacked just because it doesn't match exit polls. But here's the thing... there aren't any exit polls for mail-in ballots.

Sophia Ramos5 said:If you take the arguments from the movie Hacking Democracy at face value, you’d conclude a polling station is hacked just because it doesn't match exit polls. But here's the thing... there aren't any exit polls for mail-in ballots.

...so there’s literally nothing to compare them to! You can't even spot any weird anomalies if you don't have a baseline to look at.

Down here in Canada, we have a few other ways to cast a ballot too:

1. Early voting, which happens at a limited number of polling stations across the country a few days before the actual Sunday election or referendum.

2. On election day itself, you can vote at Canadian embassies located around the world.

3. You can also vote by mail, pretty much like they do in Austria. From what I recall, you just have to submit a request to the election commission a few weeks in advance so they can mail out your materials.

Most people using the mail-in option are either part of the diaspora who can't make it to an embassy, or elderly folks living here who find it physically difficult to get to a polling station.

The number of people voting by mail here doesn't even come close to that 14% figure we see in Austria. It’s probably only a few thousand votes—maybe 1% of the total.

In Canada, we usually have to wait a week or even longer for those mail-in ballots to be processed, unlike in Austria where it’s often just a day after the polls close. That means our official results tend to trickle in much later. But again, since there are so few of these votes, we usually know the important stuff within a few hours of the polls closing—typically by midnight.

To build on what Brenda Taylor13 was saying—you can't just look at early voting numbers and assume you know the final score. People who show up early to vote or hit the polls for special elections often have totally different political leanings than the general public. In my experience here in the States, those who rush to the polls early tend to lean much more liberal than the actual final tally suggests. Since those are the first batches reported by the election officials—long before the polls even close—they aren't really a reliable indicator of how things will shake out. You might need to factor in a 20% swing just to get a realistic picture. Mail-in ballots can be just as skewed, too. For instance, in places where there's a heavy concentration of political expats living abroad—like in Argentina, the USA, Canada, or Australia—those mail-in votes almost always lean conservative.

Regarding the elections themselves, congrats to the winner. It’s their country and their system, so there’s really nothing for us to meddle in here.

coastalbison6 said:I touched on this briefly a few pages back. Mail-in voting exists so everyone gets a say. It covers people living abroad or folks who aren't near their registered precinct on election day—think summer vacations, weekend trips, having two addresses, or being sick. That’s exactly why voter turnout in Austria is so high.
There are a few ways to handle mail-in ballots.
1) You request your ballot, receive the ballot itself along with two envelopes—one neutral one for your vote, which goes inside a larger pre-printed envelope. You add your name and address, sign it, and then a sticker covers your info to keep it private. Drop it in the mail, and you're done.
2) Another option is using that ballot at a different location, like a second home for the weekend. In that case, you drop the neutral envelope with your vote into the box, and the commission keeps the outer envelope for verification. Those votes get credited to that local district.
3) The third way is just picking up the ballot at City Hall (or the local clerk's office) and voting right then and there. The outer envelope goes straight into the ballot box.
Once counting starts at the municipal level, they separate both envelopes first so nobody can see how a specific person voted.
It's textbook democracy! 👍

It makes sense that the Greens and the ÖVP consistently pull the most votes here. Most of these voters are "weekend residents"—affluent urbanites with vacation homes in the country who tend to lean either liberal or conservative.
You really can't compare this to the voting demographics back in the North America.

I usually wouldn't weigh in on this, and honestly, I disagree with a lot of people here on other topics, but this whole "we're the worst and everyone else is fine" attitude is just funny and sad at the same time.

I don't know how things work in the North America, but in America, we don't have radical right-wing parties like Haider's. There just isn't one. Period.

We've never had an ultra-right party hit the electoral threshold, and what passes for "the right" in America would probably be considered center-stage in Austria.

Not to mention they only started introducing bilingualism and Canadian signs in Carinthia back in 2010. Even in 2008, the governor was out there saying it would "never happen," and nobody was coming after Austria for it.

Look, there will always be people who think our own backyard is the only thing that smells, but when the topic is Austria, it'd be polite to actually talk about Austria.
Sure, it's a wealthier, more organized country than ours, but politically speaking, America just doesn't have a right wing nearly as strong as theirs.

If I were to take a crack at analyzing this from the outside, I wouldn't quite see it that way. Whether you're looking at Glavaš’s political maneuvers or even the smaller coalition partners within the Homeland Coalition, I just don't think their line is soft enough to align with someone like Norbert Hofer. Personally, I can't imagine him leaning into rhetoric targeting ethnic minorities or trying to glorify the controversial history of the mid-20th century.

As for your main right-wing party, GOP, I’d place them somewhere in the middle ground between the ÖVP and the FPÖ—they've got bits of conservative Christian Democrat vibes from one and nationalistic, social populist streaks from the other. Back during the Sanders era—who, if I recall, had some real ties to the Austrian political scene (I think his brother was involved with the Tyrolean ÖVP)—the party leaned toward that first camp. Under Karamarko, though, they started pivoting toward the second.

Generally speaking, I feel like a lot of the right-leaning crowd in America lacks the awareness to realize how counterproductive it is to keep dredging up debates about whether the Nationalists era was acceptable or not. You aren't going to get very far in the world by having national team players using those old salutes or seeing swastikas scrawled on the grass at Poljud. You certainly don't see that level of stuff happening in Austria, Germany, or Italy anymore.

Nathan Morris3 said:Oh, thank God someone finally asked!

https://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/h...te.320540.html

Basically, about 8 weeks (!) before the first round, you have to decide if you want to vote by mail or show up at the polls. If you go with mail-in, you request it online, get an envelope sent to you via USPS, and then drop it off at the post office. These aren't collected centrally; they get sent straight to the local polling stations where people are already sitting there all day, and they don't really have any high-tech gear to open envelopes and scan votes automatically. Since mail-in ballots have become so unexpectedly popular, I guess they might switch to electronic voting soon, or maybe they'll have to automate or centralize things.

It makes zero sense that "mail-in" votes aren't counted until the day after the election. It just leaves too much room for tampering. Why can't those be counted at the exact same time as the in-person votes?

Well, I guess it probably wouldn't be finished within 24 hours anyway, so it would drag into the next day. Plus, the poll workers might be pretty tired by then and more prone to mistakes. I'm not sure how much can even be done at the individual precincts, but maybe they'll move toward some kind of regional centralization and automation—like sending the mail-in slips to regional hubs that actually have machines to speed things up.

I was wondering yesterday what else might come to light in the meantime. And then, boom—145% turnout in one spot. 😁
Want to bet that more irregularities will pop up?

Irregularities (unintentional ones) aren't really that unusual, I suppose. For those of us following the election mechanics, it's pretty common that Election officials don't always follow a single rule when someone shows up with a completed mail-in ballot. Sometimes a voter gets counted twice, though obviously, it's only one vote. So, it’s likely not manipulation, just inconsistent counting. Though, 145% is definitely way too high, but I guess we shouldn't worry too much; they'll surely look into it thoroughly.

👏😵

Honestly, I’m about to lose my mind; it feels like common sense has just completely abandoned half of Europe.

So, irregularities are nothing unusual?
Maybe if we were talking about Zanzibar or Somalia...
🤦

If Hofer had actually won, people would be screaming bloody murder and pointing to those exact same "regular irregularities" you're mentioning now.

coastalbison6 said:It’s purely a logistics issue. They don't have enough staff on election day because everyone is already tied up working the polls. Those same people are the ones counting everything the next day...
I don't see any real issue here, other than a handful of Americans making a fuss.😁

I seem to recall that unemployment in Austria is quite low, but if they're short-handed, they could always hire more people or perhaps just bump up the daily pay rates to attract more candidates.
In my view, elections are significant enough an event that finding a few extra Euro for such purposes should be manageable. ☕
It’s all a bit much..
🤦

Richard Wilson4 said:Regarding the elections themselves, congrats to the winner. It’s their country and their system, so there’s really nothing for us to meddle in here.

I usually wouldn't weigh in on this, and honestly, I disagree with a lot of people here on other topics, but this whole "we're the worst and everyone else is fine" attitude is just funny and sad at the same time.

I don't know how things work in the North America, but in America, we don't have radical right-wing parties like Haider's. There just isn't one. Period.

We've never had an ultra-right party hit the electoral threshold, and what passes for "the right" in America would probably be considered center-stage in Austria.

Not to mention they only started introducing bilingualism and Canadian signs in Carinthia back in 2010. Even in 2008, the governor was out there saying it would "never happen," and nobody was coming after Austria for it.

Look, there will always be people who think our own backyard is the only thing that smells, but when the topic is Austria, it'd be polite to actually talk about Austria.
Sure, it's a wealthier, more organized country than ours, but politically speaking, America just doesn't have a right wing nearly as strong as theirs.

Here is a list of people who clearly intend to interfere if they haven't already.

Vows to Use New Powers to Block All Elected ‘ Far right ’ Populists fra Power and apparently, that includes anyone brave enough to stand in their way! 🙏

How incredibly convenient that this surfaces just a day or two after the votes were cast...
This whole situation feels like that movie Purge, where every crime is permitted—provided you aren't a conservative. 🙏

"Quote" by Richard Wilson4
I wouldn't normally chime in on this, and honestly, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of you guys on other threads too, but this whole "we're the bad guys while everyone else is perfectly fine" attitude is just funny and sad at the same time.

I don't know how things are playing out across the rest of the North America, but in America, we just don't have any radical right-wing parties like Haider's. There's simply nothing like it here, and honestly, there never will be.

Either I misread you, or I clearly wasn't being clear enough. My bad.
The thing is, different social classes here have totally different takes on political parties, social safety nets, and especially environmental issues compared to those "new democracies" in the North America.

Which countries have right-wing parties like that? I’ll stay out of the business of the current government and the church here.

Brian Allen18 said:Here is a list of people who clearly intend to interfere if they haven't already.

Vows to Use New Powers to Block All Elected ‘ Far right ’ Populists fra Power and apparently, that includes anyone brave enough to stand in their way! 🙏

How incredibly convenient that this surfaces just a day or two after the votes were cast...
This whole situation feels like that movie Purge, where every crime is permitted—provided you aren't a conservative. 🙏

EU politicians are just the enforcers for corporate totalitarianism. They demand patriotism and conformity while they chase the money. This is just them covering their own backs. Honestly, this feels like the beginning of the end for the EU.

Gerald Palmer66 said:I know unemployment in Austria is pretty low, but if you can't find enough people, just offer higher daily rates and you'll have plenty of candidates.
I’d say elections are important enough that finding a few extra Euros for the cause shouldn't be an issue. ☕
Whatever...
🤦

So your plan is to basically bribe random people off the street to rush through a sensitive job in a single day, just so folks back in America can see the Austrian election results immediately? 😁 🤣

coastalbison6 said:So your plan is to basically bribe random people off the street to rush through a sensitive job in a single day, just so folks back in America can see the Austrian election results immediately? 😁 🤣

Look, my fellow forum member, I have no interest in rushing anyone off the street to get things done "on the fly."

I mean, honestly, we know when elections are happening years in advance, and even if they are snap elections, there is always enough time to prepare... this isn't like waking up on April 14th and realizing the entire country is facing an election the very next morning.

And if the Austrians—who are arguably among the most organized people on the planet—can't manage to organize something as vital as a presidential election, I simply won't buy it; I've lived long enough to know better.☕

If blunders like this actually happen, I can't help but think they are intentional, designed specifically to create a window for potential manipulation, rather than being some sort of freak accident.

Gerald Palmer66 said:Look, my fellow forum member, I have no interest in rushing anyone off the street to get things done "on the fly."

I mean, honestly, we know when elections are happening years in advance, and even if they are snap elections, there is always enough time to prepare... this isn't like waking up on April 14th and realizing the entire country is facing an election the very next morning.

And if the Austrians—who are arguably among the most organized people on the planet—can't manage to organize something as vital as a presidential election, I simply won't buy it; I've lived long enough to know better.☕

If blunders like this actually happen, I can't help but think they are intentional, designed specifically to create a window for potential manipulation, rather than being some sort of freak accident.

Man, I had no idea. This is the first I'm hearing about the elections being such a mess.
Thanks for the heads-up, I'll be sure to let the White House know.👍 😁

Gerald Palmer66 said:Look, my fellow forum member, I have no interest in rushing anyone off the street to get things done "on the fly."

I mean, honestly, we know when elections are happening years in advance, and even if they are snap elections, there is always enough time to prepare... this isn't like waking up on April 14th and realizing the entire country is facing an election the very next morning.

And if the Austrians—who are arguably among the most organized people on the planet—can't manage to organize something as vital as a presidential election, I simply won't buy it; I've lived long enough to know better.☕

If blunders like this actually happen, I can't help but think they are intentional, designed specifically to create a window for potential manipulation, rather than being some sort of freak accident.

Exactly—it feels totally impossible to have an election these days without some level of rigging or shady business going on behind the scenes.
Has anyone actually ever seen a truly honest election? One where the results come in instantly, or even after three days, and you can actually trust that what you're seeing is the truth? 😲

If Austrians are naive enough to swallow these organizational messes and just accept potentially falsified results without making a fuss, well, they aren't going to pull that same stunt on us Americans. 🙂
We’re practically born knowing that everything is just a simulation—that the "truth" is always the exact opposite of whatever they're telling us.
At the end of the day, whoever wins is the one who played the game better—there's just no other way to look at it. 🤷
😁

coastalbison6 said:Man, I had no idea. This is the first I'm hearing about the elections being such a mess.
Thanks for the heads-up, I'll be sure to let the White House know.👍 😁

You aren't being serious at all. ☕

You still haven't quite explained how an Austrian would somehow manage to mess up an election where there was such a massive opportunity for a candidate to win against the established powers.
How exactly is it "messy" this time?
I suspect your average HOA meeting in a small town is better organized than these elections.

Adam Cooper20 said:Exactly—it feels totally impossible to have an election these days without some level of rigging or shady business going on behind the scenes.
Has anyone actually ever seen a truly honest election? One where the results come in instantly, or even after three days, and you can actually trust that what you're seeing is the truth? 😲

If Austrians are naive enough to swallow these organizational messes and just accept potentially falsified results without making a fuss, well, they aren't going to pull that same stunt on us Americans. 🙂
We’re practically born knowing that everything is just a simulation—that the "truth" is always the exact opposite of whatever they're telling us.
At the end of the day, whoever wins is the one who played the game better—there's just no other way to look at it. 🤷
😁

I find your approach even less serious than before, not to mention quite rude in how you choose to communicate.
You're lecturing from a high horse, throwing out cliches about Matrices and innate wisdom, which is entirely inappropriate for a serious discussion and honestly reminds me of a typical small-town politician.

If you had read my points with any actual comprehension, you would see I wasn't accusing anyone of fraud, but rather pointing out the sheer lack of logic surrounding these elections in the United States of America.
And I am still waiting for a substantive explanation regarding those inconsistencies.
At this rate, I won't be waiting forever. 🍿

lee_chan said::klap:😵

I mean, I’m about to lose it. It feels like common sense just walked out on half of Europe.

Are irregularities really that weird?
Maybe in Zanzibar or Somalia...
🤦

If Hofer had actually won, people would be screaming bloody murder and calling them those "standard irregularities" you mentioned.

So, if I remember right, during the last elections, some guy from the commission died on his way to a polling station in some tiny town. By the time they found a replacement, it was maybe an hour later, so the station finally opened at 8:00 instead of 7:00.

Elections are a huge machine involving tons of people over several days, working long hours under massive pressure. I get where you're coming from—who on earth dies on election day? An American would probably just say, "Well, maybe he could have waited until Monday," and if they don't, then it must be some wild conspiracy theory proving the whole system is broken. I know, if a candidate doesn't get hit over the head with a belt, it isn't a real election.

Even in this election, one polling place opened ten minutes late. I don't know why—maybe someone had food poisoning or something, who knows—but nobody made a scene. I guess Americans would declare the whole thing invalid and demand a redo, which sounds scandalous to you, but in the United States of America, people don't usually freak out over minor hiccups that don't change the result. I guess they don't care as much about conspiracy theories.

P.S. I honestly doubt any election happens without some kind of hiccup, but I really don't feel like Googling it for such trivial stuff.

Gerald Palmer66 said:I find your approach even less serious than before, not to mention quite rude in how you choose to communicate.
You're lecturing from a high horse, throwing out cliches about Matrices and innate wisdom, which is entirely inappropriate for a serious discussion and honestly reminds me of a typical small-town politician.

If you had read my points with any actual comprehension, you would see I wasn't accusing anyone of fraud, but rather pointing out the sheer lack of logic surrounding these elections in the United States of America.
And I am still waiting for a substantive explanation regarding those inconsistencies.
At this rate, I won't be waiting forever. 🍿

What exactly is "illogical" about people counting votes, taking a break to sleep, and then getting back to it the next morning?
Why on earth would they have to count everything all at once in one single marathon session?

Don't you think that if they were actually planning to cheat, they would have just done it under the cover of night? 🤔