A - Austria

Mark Harris66 said:With over 3.5% of the votes being tossed out, those mail-in ballots basically decided the whole thing—and they're still counting 24 hours after the polls closed... makes you wonder what else is going to surface, doesn't it?
Is everything really as transparent and airtight as they say? 🤣

Of course, we won't see any of the usual liberal outrage machines spinning this one, though I must admit, I’m quite curious to see what kind of frantic narratives they would have cooked up if the result had gone the other way. 🕺

Chris Chase5 said:If something like this happened in the States—counting all those votes, having 10% of the electorate using mail-in ballots (which can't be tampered with)—critics of our political system would be calling us the laughingstock of the world, or worse, using much harsher labels to describe our chaos...

Over here, it’s actually seen as a celebration of democracy. Honestly, I don't get the argument that people who travel frequently shouldn't be allowed to vote just because they happen to be spending their weekend in their favorite city, like Chicago or New York. It's just nonsense.

And yet, looking back at 2018, we ended up with Hofer in power :-) which is going to be absolute hell... for everyone, not just his supporters...

Honestly, I don't see why Americans get so worked up about a democratic process that Austrians seem to love. This system has been around since 2007 and more people use it every year, which probably helps strengthen democracy by boosting turnout. People don't have to worry about being in the right place at the exact right time; they have the CHOICE to vote however they want. Now that the results didn't go someone's way, they start bashing Austrian democracy. Even though the Republican Party accepted the loss and likely won't complain since everything was legitimate, you still have people from the States acting like this voting method is a huge problem.
For anyone seeing a conspiracy here, maybe take a few minutes to look up how the mail-in ballot works. If you look for actual complaints about the method, I get the feeling the loudest critics are usually the ones who don't even understand it. I guess they just like having something to attack. Sure, any system can be abused, but if Austrians find the risk acceptable, I don't see the issue. Personally, I think the mail-in ballot is great, and it works perfectly in Austria. I'm not sure if it would work as well in the States.

It's no big deal; in a race between a left-wing and a right-wing candidate, half the country went one way and the other half went the other. You'd probably see similar results in most places, including the USA. It isn't that shocking that a candidate from a fairly minor left-wing party (polling at just over 10%) beat a right-wing candidate (who had over 30% in polls), or that the right-wing candidate still managed to hit that 50% mark, which is a big psychological milestone. Austrians will live with this divide, but it seems like Americans just can't accept this Austrian choice. Pretty funny, I guess.😁

Maybe you moved from the States to Austria, but you're still thinking like you're back home, worrying about being cheated and doubting democracy when you probably didn't trust it much there either. But I guess these are two pretty different worlds, with their own pros and cons.

hiddengardener12 said:Let me restate my argument against the whole "urban vs. rural" simplification. I'll lay it out clearly this time so it's obvious I'm just doubling down on my previous point. And look, I'm not disputing any other statistics here.

It seems like nobody is looking at the regional patterns in this vote beyond the basic urban-rural divide. And keeping in mind that Vienna is its own beast entirely: it's really more about the West/Northwest versus the South/Southeast.

Look at the states: in Vorarlberg, Alexander Van der Bellen pulls a convincing win with over 56%. And that is a deeply rural area.

In Tyrol and Upper Austria, Hofer and VdB are basically neck and neck. There, Alexander Van der Bellen actually won the majority in several rural spots—take Bad Ischl and Gmunden in the Salzkammergut region, for example. He even took historic Hallstatt with 70%.

But Burgenland, Styria, and Carinthia are a completely different story. In those states, Hofer wins by over 60%. He’s even picking up some urban centers there. In Styria, he wins almost everywhere except Graz. In Burgenland, he takes everything, including Eisenstadt. Over in Carinthia, VdB barely scrapes by in Klagenfurt (50.4% to 49.6%). In Villach, for instance, Hofer wins handily.

That's the reality. I just don't care for oversimplifications.

I know just about every little town in Austria, but the Mühlviertel feels like a total black hole to me. That's why I figured I'd weigh in on this.
Tyrol might be mostly rural, but their economy is surprisingly powerhouse. They’ve got some serious heavy hitters that lead their industries globally—think companies like Caterpillar, John Deere, or even Red Bull. It's pretty impressive.
Vorarlberg only has about 400,000 people now, though back in the 70s, they were sitting at around 180,000.
The whole Rhine Valley area, stretching from Bregenz to Feldkirch, covers about... 37 milesIt’s basically just one big industrial zone masquerading as a city.
While everyone else thinks Austrians are just Bavarians, they’re actually more like Germans—closely tied to the Swiss and speaking that same Swiss dialect. Back in 1919, there was even a referendum where 80% voted to join Switzerland, but the French cantons shot it down.

In Tyrol, just like everywhere else in western Austria, you've got this strong mix of Greens and conservatives, with plenty of active Catholics in the mix too. Plus, since VdB is from Tyrol himself, it’s pretty obvious how he managed to sweep the republic.
Upper Austria is actually pretty unique. About a third of all the priests and nuns in the country come from the Innviertel region. 😁 The industrial corridor between Pittsburgh and Cleveland is basically the heavy-duty heart of the country, while everything else out in the sticks is pretty much empty.
Most people from the old country who moved to Germany ended up settling right around the Enns-Wels-Gmunden area and Hausruck. You still run into plenty of older German folks there who act like they can be understood by everyone in the world. 😁

Chris Chase5 said:If something like this happened in the States—counting all those votes, having 10% of the electorate using mail-in ballots (which can't be tampered with)—critics of our political system would be calling us the laughingstock of the world, or worse, using much harsher labels to describe our chaos...

Over here, it’s actually seen as a celebration of democracy. Honestly, I don't get the argument that people who travel frequently shouldn't be allowed to vote just because they happen to be spending their weekend in their favorite city, like Chicago or New York. It's just nonsense.

And yet, looking back at 2018, we ended up with Hofer in power :-) which is going to be absolute hell... for everyone, not just his supporters...

And where exactly does it say that you and your crowd are required to understand that? 😁

Nathan Morris3 said:Honestly, I don't see why Americans get so worked up about a democratic process that Austrians seem to love. This system has been around since 2007 and more people use it every year, which probably helps strengthen democracy by boosting turnout. People don't have to worry about being in the right place at the exact right time; they have the CHOICE to vote however they want. Now that the results didn't go someone's way, they start bashing Austrian democracy. Even though the Republican Party accepted the loss and likely won't complain since everything was legitimate, you still have people from the States acting like this voting method is a huge problem.
For anyone seeing a conspiracy here, maybe take a few minutes to look up how the mail-in ballot works. If you look for actual complaints about the method, I get the feeling the loudest critics are usually the ones who don't even understand it. I guess they just like having something to attack. Sure, any system can be abused, but if Austrians find the risk acceptable, I don't see the issue. Personally, I think the mail-in ballot is great, and it works perfectly in Austria. I'm not sure if it would work as well in the States.

It's no big deal; in a race between a left-wing and a right-wing candidate, half the country went one way and the other half went the other. You'd probably see similar results in most places, including the USA. It isn't that shocking that a candidate from a fairly minor left-wing party (polling at just over 10%) beat a right-wing candidate (who had over 30% in polls), or that the right-wing candidate still managed to hit that 50% mark, which is a big psychological milestone. Austrians will live with this divide, but it seems like Americans just can't accept this Austrian choice. Pretty funny, I guess.😁

Maybe you moved from the States to Austria, but you're still thinking like you're back home, worrying about being cheated and doubting democracy when you probably didn't trust it much there either. But I guess these are two pretty different worlds, with their own pros and cons.

America gets criticized for way more trivial things than Austria does. This is a forum, the topic is about Austria, and it's good to have a discussion.

Mark Harris66 said:America gets criticized for way more trivial things than Austria does. This is a forum, the topic is about Austria, and it's good to have a discussion.

I mean, debating is great, but it feels like everyone from America just jumps in here to lecture Austrians about how scandalous mail-in ballots are. Everyone gets so worked up and aggressive, I guess.
It’s kind of like if some guy named Heinz showed up on a US forum and started lecturing Americans about how crazy it is that people living abroad get to vote, or how it's ruining American democracy or whatever. Debate is fine if it's actually constructive, but honestly, it seems like most of these kids just show up, insult everyone, and leave. That feels more like the norm than the exception, maybe.

Chris Chase5 said:If something like this happened in the States—counting all those votes, having 10% of the electorate using mail-in ballots (which can't be tampered with)—critics of our political system would be calling us the laughingstock of the world, or worse, using much harsher labels to describe our chaos...

Over here, it’s actually seen as a celebration of democracy. Honestly, I don't get the argument that people who travel frequently shouldn't be allowed to vote just because they happen to be spending their weekend in their favorite city, like Chicago or New York. It's just nonsense.

And yet, looking back at 2018, we ended up with Hofer in power :-) which is going to be absolute hell... for everyone, not just his supporters...

It isn't even 10% (which would be suspicious enough), it’s closer to 14%!!!
In this presidential election, there are as many as 885,437 of those mail-in
ballots, but the most glaring red flag is that there are more than
THREE times as many as the last election! For no discernible reason! (No sudden
cold snap or anything else that would make actually leaving the house
unappealing.)

Furthermore, during the previous presidential elections, those mail-in ballots
didn't move the needle much, because the candidate distribution ON
them WASN'T drastically different from the turnout at the polling stations—
exactly what you would expect. But this time, inexplicably, the gap
IS massive, since Alexander Van der Bellen pulled over 60% via mail-in, even though
he scored under 49% at the actual polling sites!
And The Press admits that with these mail-in ballots,
virtually any kind of manipulation becomes possible:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bp...litik/index.do

The mail-in ballots were left unsecured overnight, leading
the President of the Constitutional Court, Robert Holzinger, to remark: "Without 24 hours
of waiting, I find it politically
concerning," meaning he thinks it is politically dubious to wait 24 hours and
leave the votes sitting in a "vacuum" overnight, rather than counting them
on the very same election night:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bp...n-am-Wahlabend

Back home in the States, people nitpick every tiny detail, yet in Austria, they pull off stunts like this—it is clearly election rigging!

Noah Sullivan said:It isn't even 10% (which would be suspicious enough), it’s closer to 14%!!!
In this presidential election, there are as many as 885,437 of those mail-in
ballots, but the most glaring red flag is that there are more than
THREE times as many as the last election! For no discernible reason! (No sudden
cold snap or anything else that would make actually leaving the house
unappealing.)

Furthermore, during the previous presidential elections, those mail-in ballots
didn't move the needle much, because the candidate distribution ON
them WASN'T drastically different from the turnout at the polling stations—
exactly what you would expect. But this time, inexplicably, the gap
IS massive, since Alexander Van der Bellen pulled over 60% via mail-in, even though
he scored under 49% at the actual polling sites!
And The Press admits that with these mail-in ballots,
virtually any kind of manipulation becomes possible:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bp...litik/index.do

The mail-in ballots were left unsecured overnight, leading
the President of the Constitutional Court, Robert Holzinger, to remark: "Without 24 hours
of waiting, I find it politically
concerning," meaning he thinks it is politically dubious to wait 24 hours and
leave the votes sitting in a "vacuum" overnight, rather than counting them
on the very same election night:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bp...n-am-Wahlabend

Back home in the States, people nitpick every tiny detail, yet in Austria, they pull off stunts like this—it is clearly election rigging!

I’m totally with you on this—there isn't a single logical reason why the mail-in ballots would swing so wildly different from what we saw at the actual polling stations. And get this—just imagine—the gap was exactly what VdB needed to pull off the win! It’s like they handed him the victory on a silver platter. Seriously, the math on those mail-in votes was just too perfect to be a coincidence. I mean, come on, people! This kind of amateur hour? You wouldn't even see this level of incompetence in a small town in Ohio. It's ridiculous.

Noah Sullivan said:It isn't even 10% (which would be suspicious enough), it’s closer to 14%!!!
In this presidential election, there are as many as 885,437 of those mail-in
ballots, but the most glaring red flag is that there are more than
THREE times as many as the last election! For no discernible reason! (No sudden
cold snap or anything else that would make actually leaving the house
unappealing.)

Furthermore, during the previous presidential elections, those mail-in ballots
didn't move the needle much, because the candidate distribution ON
them WASN'T drastically different from the turnout at the polling stations—
exactly what you would expect. But this time, inexplicably, the gap
IS massive, since Alexander Van der Bellen pulled over 60% via mail-in, even though
he scored under 49% at the actual polling sites!
And The Press admits that with these mail-in ballots,
virtually any kind of manipulation becomes possible:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bp...litik/index.do

The mail-in ballots were left unsecured overnight, leading
the President of the Constitutional Court, Robert Holzinger, to remark: "Without 24 hours
of waiting, I find it politically
concerning," meaning he thinks it is politically dubious to wait 24 hours and
leave the votes sitting in a "vacuum" overnight, rather than counting them
on the very same election night:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bp...n-am-Wahlabend

Back home in the States, people nitpick every tiny detail, yet in Austria, they pull off stunts like this—it is clearly election rigging!

Since mail-in ballots were introduced back in 2007, voter turnout via mail has been on a steady, uninterrupted climb.

The official results from the mail-in ballots are finally being released. You can check the breakdown right here on the government portal. It’s all there in black and white. No sense in guessing when the numbers are public.

Look at these numbers from the 2008 elections: 376,000. Now look at 2013: 543,000. Massive jump.
The numbers don't lie. You can clearly see a significant surge in left-wing support through these results. We already saw this trend emerging after the first round of elections.

That's how they cast their votes in the Presidential 2016 election.
The first round saw 543,000 voters. The second jumped to 766,000.

Check out the official breakdown of the mail-in ballots from the 2016 Presidential election. Everything is laid out right here.

Check out the official site for the Presidential 2016 election results here: http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/

🤣

Austria is supposedly this bastion of high-level democracy, isn't it?
But what happens when Heider finally breaks out of those small-town political circles? They just cut the brakes on his local road.
When a candidate who carries a Glock specifically because of the migrant crisis pulls in more than 50% of the vote, suddenly the mail-in ballots take over.
I mean, which ones are they actually counting over in Florida?

Romano Bolković

People who share my views don't really grasp the whole transgender issue either. They’ll do whatever it takes to make sure five-year-old girls aren't fast-tracked into being non-consensually transitioned and deeply traumatized. But the progressive left? They get it perfectly well.😁

The level of snobbery found in mail-in ballots is something you rarely see. 😁 And I'll say it again: that's how Americans voted, plain and simple. If Zoko were in charge, he’d turn the whole thing into a massive circus. Just one big, pathetic show.

To me, a healthy, functioning group of people is one that isn't too lazy or self-absorbed to admit when things are unclear. But honestly, I’ve always been someone who values hard work over sitting around doing nothing in every aspect of life, so that "Austrian" way of doing things just doesn't sit right with me...

In Pittsburgh voter turnout hit 146.9% 😵 Oh sure, nothing was rigged; everything went strictly by the book 🤣

hiddenmarlin14 said:In Pittsburgh voter turnout hit 146.9% 😵 Oh sure, nothing was rigged; everything went strictly by the book 🤣

Some weird input error keeps popping up, but who cares? It doesn't even change the math. In Pittsburgh (City), the Heritage Foundation pulled 52.7% against Hofer's 47.3%—that’s a lead of 683 votes. Just your typical urban split you see all over Ohio. Same story in Savannah with 53.1% for the Heritage Foundation out of 13,392 votes. Then you got 56.8% in Sacramento and 50.4% in Newark. Same old pattern.

lonetrucker4 said:Some weird input error keeps popping up, but who cares? It doesn't even change the math. In Pittsburgh (City), the Heritage Foundation pulled 52.7% against Hofer's 47.3%—that’s a lead of 683 votes. Just your typical urban split you see all over Ohio. Same story in Savannah with 53.1% for the Heritage Foundation out of 13,392 votes. Then you got 56.8% in Sacramento and 50.4% in Newark. Same old pattern.

But it says the number of "Eligible voters" is only 9,026.

And they turned in 13,262 ballots.

That means there are over 4,000 more ballots than actual voters.

🤷

good morning United States of America ☕ 👍

a beautiful day starts with our green president and some fresh, wild conspiracy theories cooked up by right-wingers 👍
I'll be watching closely as they spin more tales about globalists plotting against the hardworking American people 😁

coastalbison6 said:good morning United States of America ☕ 👍

a beautiful day starts with our green president and some fresh, wild conspiracy theories cooked up by right-wingers 👍
I'll be watching closely as they spin more tales about globalists plotting against the hardworking American people 😁

over here, it's raining. currently in the United States 🙂

Chris Chase5 said:If something like this happened in the States—counting all those votes, having 10% of the electorate using mail-in ballots (which can't be tampered with)—critics of our political system would be calling us the laughingstock of the world, or worse, using much harsher labels to describe our chaos...

Over here, it’s actually seen as a celebration of democracy. Honestly, I don't get the argument that people who travel frequently shouldn't be allowed to vote just because they happen to be spending their weekend in their favorite city, like Chicago or New York. It's just nonsense.

And yet, looking back at 2018, we ended up with Hofer in power :-) which is going to be absolute hell... for everyone, not just his supporters...

I'm not voting for Hofer and I definitely don't support the FPÖ... but seriously, what is he actually going to do? Kick every single one of us expats out of the country? 🤣
It's just nonsense and fear-mongering...

hiddenmarlin14 said:over here, it's raining. currently in the United States 🙂

...same here. That means mushroom season kicks off at my place in the country this weekend. Time to hunt for some porcinis and chanterelles. 👍

Nathan Morris3 said:I mean, debating is great, but it feels like everyone from America just jumps in here to lecture Austrians about how scandalous mail-in ballots are. Everyone gets so worked up and aggressive, I guess.
It’s kind of like if some guy named Heinz showed up on a US forum and started lecturing Americans about how crazy it is that people living abroad get to vote, or how it's ruining American democracy or whatever. Debate is fine if it's actually constructive, but honestly, it seems like most of these kids just show up, insult everyone, and leave. That feels more like the norm than the exception, maybe.

Given that the Austrian ambassador in the United States is constantly talking about media freedom issues over here, I don't see why anyone on this forum shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinion on the electoral process in Austria or any other country.

Besides, in the United States, no fascist could ever pull in as many votes as Hofer did, so I honestly don't get where you're getting this sense of superiority when lecturing local forum users about democracy and all that.

Everyone is entitled to their own take on how elections are run. If someone thinks Hofer was cheated, that is absolutely their right to an opinion.
We aren't exactly going to ban all debate just because we might offend the Austrian diaspora, are we? 🤔

coastalbison6 said:...same here. That means mushroom season kicks off at my place in the country this weekend. Time to hunt for some porcinis and chanterelles. 👍

Yeah, things will be a bit later where I am—higher elevation, colder weather.🙂

But honestly, those people in charge of the mail-in ballots🤷 claim they'll just "fix the error" next week.🤷 If it were me, I’d be recounting every single one.😳 To me, that’s not exactly a "minor glitch."🤷