S - Kingdom of Sweden

So, I wonder what all those people are saying now—you know, the ones who were so convinced there was some kind of "Moderate Republican" factor influencing the Democratic Party voters? 🙏
It turns out everything they thought was totally backwards, because the polls pretty much completely missed the mark on Democrats, even when you account for the Social Democrats and Moderates. ☕

Carol Newman2 said:Exit poll NBC:

The Alliance: 39.6% - 141
The Red-Green coalition: 39.4% - 140
Social Democrats: 19.2% - 68

Interesting. But let's be real, this is just an exit poll.

In Sweden, you see the left holding strong in rural areas, while the center-right tends to dominate the major cities and the south.

Looking back at the 2014 elections:

I can't say I really agree with that assessment. I actually live in a rural area, and the Democratic Party took the win here with 29.6% of the vote in my district—and they even led the entire county at 26.3%. From what I was looking at this morning regarding different counties, the Democratic Party is actually strongest in those isolated regions because that's where most of the immigrant populations have settled. Since there aren't many people living out there to begin with, every new arrival makes a massive impact on the numbers, doesn't it?

nimbleridge5 said:It’s just one of those moments, isn't it? When you see a team from one of the least developed 🙂
nations somehow manage to pull off a win against a powerhouse from the most advanced countries in the European Union.

I mean, are we really talking about a country where citizens can just walk through any neighborhood at midnight without worrying they'll be intercepted, harassed, physically assaulted, or even robbed or raped by groups of migrants? In the Kingdom of Sweden, I hear even the paramedics, firefighters on calls, or police patrols aren't safe anymore.

frozenpuma69 said:So, I wonder what all those people are saying now—you know, the ones who were so convinced there was some kind of "Moderate Republican" factor influencing the Democratic Party voters? 🙏
It turns out everything they thought was totally backwards, because the polls pretty much completely missed the mark on Democrats, even when you account for the Social Democrats and Moderates. ☕

True enough.
I guess the people in Sweden basically voted for their own downfall this time around. If the Social Democrats had managed to pull in somewhere between 25 and 30%, they would have become that indispensable force needed to actually shift policy.
You see citizens in various authoritarian regimes fighting back against tyranny, risking everything just to get a taste of freedom. Meanwhile, these complacent Swedes just sit there, watching calmly as their liberties are stripped away right under their noses.
Things might change once the economy starts heading south, but by then, I suppose it’ll be too little, too late.
Sweden is a lost cause.
Fine.
It’ll serve as a cautionary tale for everyone else.

Timothy Nelson5 said:True enough.
I guess the people in Sweden basically voted for their own downfall this time around. If the Social Democrats had managed to pull in somewhere between 25 and 30%, they would have become that indispensable force needed to actually shift policy.
You see citizens in various authoritarian regimes fighting back against tyranny, risking everything just to get a taste of freedom. Meanwhile, these complacent Swedes just sit there, watching calmly as their liberties are stripped away right under their noses.
Things might change once the economy starts heading south, but by then, I suppose it’ll be too little, too late.
Sweden is a lost cause.
Fine.
It’ll serve as a cautionary tale for everyone else.

Instead of trying to play prophet, you might find it more dignified to just sprinkle some ash on yourself, especially since you were just claiming the other day that Social Democratic voters are too scared to even admit who they voted for.

Who exactly is rising up against tyranny here? 😁
The exact same thing is playing out in the Netherlands, France, and Germany.
Sure, extremists might be gaining ground in decent countries, but they usually hit a wall they can't cross.
As long as the bulk of the conservatives and centrists keep acting like François Fillon or Angela Merkel rather than Sebastian Kurz, parties like the Social Democratic Party aren't going to see any real power.
And I guess we shouldn't even count places like Italy or Greece, where finding a functioning political party is a struggle in itself.

Timothy Nelson5 said:I mean, are we really talking about a country where citizens can just walk through any neighborhood at midnight without worrying they'll be intercepted, harassed, physically assaulted, or even robbed or raped by groups of migrants? In the Kingdom of Sweden, I hear even the paramedics, firefighters on calls, or police patrols aren't safe anymore.

Did you actually travel there and witness all of this firsthand?
And honestly, you don't even need to worry about what happens to the Swedes, because if this overly permissive, short-sighted policy from the left and the liberals ends up causing too much chaos with immigration—and if the people in charge are too oblivious to see the damage they're doing—it’s just the natural course of things that conservatives and hardline right-wingers will surge to power. They'll swoop in with strict anti-immigration laws and try to pack everyone back to where they came from, which might end up setting society back decades. And the later this happens, the more extreme those measures will likely be. As for those specific ghettos, I assume it's a lot like how most regular folks would just avoid certain rough neighborhoods in a place like Chicago—there's just no reason for a normal person to go there.

You should probably focus more on your own struggling country, which seems to view Sweden as some kind of promised land or a mix of the ultimate dream destination and paradise, whether it has immigrants or not. You really don't have the moral standing to lecture anyone when your own nation lags behind Sweden in basically every single metric.
If some Swede actually read what people from the fringes of Europe were saying about them, they'd probably just roll their eyes and say, "Look, you have plenty of your own massive problems to deal with; we aren't worried about our immigration debates or our choices."

frozenpuma69 said:Instead of trying to play prophet, you might find it more dignified to just sprinkle some ash on yourself, especially since you were just claiming the other day that Social Democratic voters are too scared to even admit who they voted for.

Who exactly is rising up against tyranny here? 😁
The exact same thing is playing out in the Netherlands, France, and Germany.
Sure, extremists might be gaining ground in decent countries, but they usually hit a wall they can't cross.
As long as the bulk of the conservatives and centrists keep acting like François Fillon or Angela Merkel rather than Sebastian Kurz, parties like the Social Democratic Party aren't going to see any real power.
And I guess we shouldn't even count places like Italy or Greece, where finding a functioning political party is a struggle in itself.

Actually, it’s worse than that.
It wasn't just that they wouldn't admit their choice in a poll— they didn't even have the guts to actually vote!
Just a bunch of spineless cowards, I guess.

And don't try to twist my words.
I was just relaying what the poll showed.
The reason I wasn't making any predictions is because the Swedes have already proven themselves to be pretty pathetic weaklings.

Extremists might be on the rise in stable countries, but there's always a clear line they can't cross.
As long as the mainstream conservatives and Democrats act like François Fillon or Angela Merkel,

Which extremists are we talking about?
The ones who actually love their country and want to preserve their culture?
Because if you think Merkel and Fillon are examples of people doing that... well, 🤣that's something.

I'm obviously not counting places like Italy or Greece, where you can barely find a functional political party.

Yeah, right. Imagine that.
Politicians and parties who actually care about the people electing them and the interests of those citizens more than some globalist agenda or the influx of migrants tied to it.

frozenpuma69 said:Instead of trying to play prophet, you might find it more dignified to just sprinkle some ash on yourself, especially since you were just claiming the other day that Social Democratic voters are too scared to even admit who they voted for.

Who exactly is rising up against tyranny here? 😁
The exact same thing is playing out in the Netherlands, France, and Germany.
Sure, extremists might be gaining ground in decent countries, but they usually hit a wall they can't cross.
As long as the bulk of the conservatives and centrists keep acting like François Fillon or Angela Merkel rather than Sebastian Kurz, parties like the Social Democratic Party aren't going to see any real power.
And I guess we shouldn't even count places like Italy or Greece, where finding a functioning political party is a struggle in itself.

If those standard political parties just started acting like actual, functional parties—like you see in Denmark—there wouldn't even be an opening for the Social Democratic Party to seize power. It's the same story everywhere else.

The thing is, that boundary they can't cross? It gets pushed back a little more every single year.

nimbleridge5 said:Did you actually travel there and witness all of this firsthand?
And honestly, you don't even need to worry about what happens to the Swedes, because if this overly permissive, short-sighted policy from the left and the liberals ends up causing too much chaos with immigration—and if the people in charge are too oblivious to see the damage they're doing—it’s just the natural course of things that conservatives and hardline right-wingers will surge to power. They'll swoop in with strict anti-immigration laws and try to pack everyone back to where they came from, which might end up setting society back decades. And the later this happens, the more extreme those measures will likely be. As for those specific ghettos, I assume it's a lot like how most regular folks would just avoid certain rough neighborhoods in a place like Chicago—there's just no reason for a normal person to go there.

You should probably focus more on your own struggling country, which seems to view Sweden as some kind of promised land or a mix of the ultimate dream destination and paradise, whether it has immigrants or not. You really don't have the moral standing to lecture anyone when your own nation lags behind Sweden in basically every single metric.
If some Swede actually read what people from the fringes of Europe were saying about them, they'd probably just roll their eyes and say, "Look, you have plenty of your own massive problems to deal with; we aren't worried about our immigration debates or our choices."

Sweden didn't just become wealthy overnight or even ten years ago; Sweden is prosperous because the Swedes built it through hard work and expertise—not the people voting today, but generations upon generations before them. Modern-day Sweden is sliding toward a catastrophe that they themselves are aware of—otherwise, the Social Democrats wouldn't be seeing such massive growth. And let's be clear: people vote for the Social Democrats because they are ethnic Swedes, not Somalis, Iraqis, or other immigrants who already have voting rights along with their descendants. It should be obvious to everyone. Comparing the Sweden of the 60s—which was a benchmark of development for all of America and a traditional nation—to the country today is pure nonsense. We are talking about two entirely different nations. Today's version isn't wealthy because they built it themselves; they inherited it from previous generations. What the next generation inherits in a decade or so remains to be seen. Furthermore, places like Tensta, Rinkeby, or Rosengård in Malm are nothing like the outskirts of Mexico—they are part of Sweden.

Timothy Nelson5 said:Actually, it’s worse than that.
It wasn't just that they wouldn't admit their choice in a poll— they didn't even have the guts to actually vote!
Just a bunch of spineless cowards, I guess.

And don't try to twist my words.
I was just relaying what the poll showed.
The reason I wasn't making any predictions is because the Swedes have already proven themselves to be pretty pathetic weaklings.

Extremists might be on the rise in stable countries, but there's always a clear line they can't cross.
As long as the mainstream conservatives and Democrats act like François Fillon or Angela Merkel,

Which extremists are we talking about?
The ones who actually love their country and want to preserve their culture?
Because if you think Merkel and Fillon are examples of people doing that... well, 🤣that's something.

I'm obviously not counting places like Italy or Greece, where you can barely find a functional political party.

Yeah, right. Imagine that.
Politicians and parties who actually care about the people electing them and the interests of those citizens more than some globalist agenda or the influx of migrants tied to it.

🤣
Maybe that 17% just got swallowed by the void. Or wait, we aren't even talking about Russia here.

Timothy Nelson5 said:Actually, it’s worse than that.
It wasn't just that they wouldn't admit their choice in a poll— they didn't even have the guts to actually vote!
Just a bunch of spineless cowards, I guess.

And don't try to twist my words.
I was just relaying what the poll showed.
The reason I wasn't making any predictions is because the Swedes have already proven themselves to be pretty pathetic weaklings.

Extremists might be on the rise in stable countries, but there's always a clear line they can't cross.
As long as the mainstream conservatives and Democrats act like François Fillon or Angela Merkel,

Which extremists are we talking about?
The ones who actually love their country and want to preserve their culture?
Because if you think Merkel and Fillon are examples of people doing that... well, 🤣that's something.

I'm obviously not counting places like Italy or Greece, where you can barely find a functional political party.

Yeah, right. Imagine that.
Politicians and parties who actually care about the people electing them and the interests of those citizens more than some globalist agenda or the influx of migrants tied to it.

You don't judge things by how much noise people make, but by where they've actually led their country.
And now go ahead and try to tell me that a Greek person is doing better than a Swede or a German. ☕

Morgan Cook10 said:If those standard political parties just started acting like actual, functional parties—like you see in Denmark—there wouldn't even be an opening for the Social Democratic Party to seize power. It's the same story everywhere else.

The thing is, that boundary they can't cross? It gets pushed back a little more every single year.

The exact same thing happened in the Netherlands. It wasn't until Mark Rutte adopted some "Wilders-esque" rhetoric that his party actually gained momentum while the PVV began to slide.

As for what’s happening with the Swedes, I can't say for certain, but Stefan Löfven and the migration minister cooked up some new migrant policy that apparently caused Sara Karlsson to resign, calling it anti-migrant. Whether it was just political theater for the voters remains to be seen, but if it was, it likely worked.

On another note, you have to hand it to the Swedes for that 85% turnout. I suspect it might even top the Netherlands, where they also saw numbers north of 80%.

frozenpuma69 said:Instead of trying to play prophet, you might find it more dignified to just sprinkle some ash on yourself, especially since you were just claiming the other day that Social Democratic voters are too scared to even admit who they voted for.

Who exactly is rising up against tyranny here? 😁
The exact same thing is playing out in the Netherlands, France, and Germany.
Sure, extremists might be gaining ground in decent countries, but they usually hit a wall they can't cross.
As long as the bulk of the conservatives and centrists keep acting like François Fillon or Angela Merkel rather than Sebastian Kurz, parties like the Social Democratic Party aren't going to see any real power.
And I guess we shouldn't even count places like Italy or Greece, where finding a functioning political party is a struggle in itself.

It’s interesting how this media narrative works—convincing regular people that anyone who doesn't support unchecked immigration is an "extremist." If you can explain it in just a few simple sentences, why is border control considered extremism?

Secondly, can you give me even one example of a Western nation where anti-immigration parties (your so-called "extremists") haven't seen growth in two consecutive elections? That would actually prove there's some kind of ceiling. Four years ago, the Democratic Party was at 12%; now they're already at 18%. If this insanity continues, they'll hit 25% within four years. And it's funny how there are fewer and fewer "stable" countries left in the West. Not too long ago, you probably would have called Austria and Denmark orderly, normal countries. Today, they're just as messy as Italy, Canada, and Poland—basically half of the continent. Even in your "normal" countries, the anti-immigration parties are now among the most significant political forces, whereas ten or twenty years ago, they didn't even exist. It's amazing how fast the definition of "normal" shifts...😍

Lisa Thomas3 said:It’s interesting how this media narrative works—convincing regular people that anyone who doesn't support unchecked immigration is an "extremist." If you can explain it in just a few simple sentences, why is border control considered extremism?

Secondly, can you give me even one example of a Western nation where anti-immigration parties (your so-called "extremists") haven't seen growth in two consecutive elections? That would actually prove there's some kind of ceiling. Four years ago, the Democratic Party was at 12%; now they're already at 18%. If this insanity continues, they'll hit 25% within four years. And it's funny how there are fewer and fewer "stable" countries left in the West. Not too long ago, you probably would have called Austria and Denmark orderly, normal countries. Today, they're just as messy as Italy, Canada, and Poland—basically half of the continent. Even in your "normal" countries, the anti-immigration parties are now among the most significant political forces, whereas ten or twenty years ago, they didn't even exist. It's amazing how fast the definition of "normal" shifts...😍

By the time it hits the Kingdom of Sweden, it might already be too late—even their own reports are admitting it. They're actually providing data showing how majority-immigrant neighborhoods voted. Just do the math: more and more migrants (thousands every single year) are gaining voting rights while the native population shrinks, all while the number of descendants of immigrants grows. This is likely the peak of what the Democratic Party will achieve. There's no way things go downward in the next election... One thing is certain: elections won't fix the situation in Sweden. As funds dry up and crime rates climb, social tensions will continue to simmer. A new economic crisis could easily trigger much harsher unrest across the country.

Lisa Thomas3 said:It’s interesting how this media narrative works—convincing regular people that anyone who doesn't support unchecked immigration is an "extremist." If you can explain it in just a few simple sentences, why is border control considered extremism?

Secondly, can you give me even one example of a Western nation where anti-immigration parties (your so-called "extremists") haven't seen growth in two consecutive elections? That would actually prove there's some kind of ceiling. Four years ago, the Democratic Party was at 12%; now they're already at 18%. If this insanity continues, they'll hit 25% within four years. And it's funny how there are fewer and fewer "stable" countries left in the West. Not too long ago, you probably would have called Austria and Denmark orderly, normal countries. Today, they're just as messy as Italy, Canada, and Poland—basically half of the continent. Even in your "normal" countries, the anti-immigration parties are now among the most significant political forces, whereas ten or twenty years ago, they didn't even exist. It's amazing how fast the definition of "normal" shifts...😍

And your little spin is pretty interesting too, I guess. You seem to know exactly why they're being called extremists—just because they want to manage migration.
You're conveniently ignoring the whole long history of racist and nationalist incidents tied to this party, not to mention all those connections to neo-Nazism.

Lisa Thomas3 said:It’s interesting how this media narrative works—convincing regular people that anyone who doesn't support unchecked immigration is an "extremist." If you can explain it in just a few simple sentences, why is border control considered extremism?

Secondly, can you give me even one example of a Western nation where anti-immigration parties (your so-called "extremists") haven't seen growth in two consecutive elections? That would actually prove there's some kind of ceiling. Four years ago, the Democratic Party was at 12%; now they're already at 18%. If this insanity continues, they'll hit 25% within four years. And it's funny how there are fewer and fewer "stable" countries left in the West. Not too long ago, you probably would have called Austria and Denmark orderly, normal countries. Today, they're just as messy as Italy, Canada, and Poland—basically half of the continent. Even in your "normal" countries, the anti-immigration parties are now among the most significant political forces, whereas ten or twenty years ago, they didn't even exist. It's amazing how fast the definition of "normal" shifts...😍

Just because they might have a ceiling doesn't mean they've actually hit it yet. When they eventually do, we'll see, but in most stable countries, that ceiling usually isn't high enough to let them be anything more than a junior coalition partner.

frozenpuma69 said:And your little spin is pretty interesting too, I guess. You seem to know exactly why they're being called extremists—just because they want to manage migration.
You're conveniently ignoring the whole long history of racist and nationalist incidents tied to this party, not to mention all those connections to neo-Nazism.

Just because they might have a ceiling doesn't mean they've actually hit it yet. When they eventually do, we'll see, but in most stable countries, that ceiling usually isn't high enough to let them be anything more than a junior coalition partner.

You weren't just talking about the Democratic Party; you were talking about parties across Europe in general, and their only common thread is anti-immigration policy. Go ahead, feel free to explain what you meant by "Extremists might be rising in normal countries"—who exactly are these rising extremists, and why are they considered extremists?
I don't see an increase in extremism anywhere; I just see an increase in anti-immigration parties throughout Europe (or more accurately, parties advocating for border control and immigration management).

frozenpuma69 said:And your little spin is pretty interesting too, I guess. You seem to know exactly why they're being called extremists—just because they want to manage migration.
You're conveniently ignoring the whole long history of racist and nationalist incidents tied to this party, not to mention all those connections to neo-Nazism.

Just because they might have a ceiling doesn't mean they've actually hit it yet. When they eventually do, we'll see, but in most stable countries, that ceiling usually isn't high enough to let them be anything more than a junior coalition partner.

Fine, glad we could agree that this "ceiling" is purely your own invention and hasn't actually been proven anywhere in practice yet.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as a "ceiling." Anti-immigration parties are effectively in power in half of Europe, and in the other half, they've become major second or third players that drastically shape national policy.
Moving forward, those other countries will either reach a compromise on immigration—meaning actual border control—or they'll keep ignoring the issue until these parties inevitably take power...

frozenpuma69 said:And your little spin is pretty interesting too, I guess. You seem to know exactly why they're being called extremists—just because they want to manage migration.
You're conveniently ignoring the whole long history of racist and nationalist incidents tied to this party, not to mention all those connections to neo-Nazism.

Just because they might have a ceiling doesn't mean they've actually hit it yet. When they eventually do, we'll see, but in most stable countries, that ceiling usually isn't high enough to let them be anything more than a junior coalition partner.

Were you napping through your 20th-century history classes or something?

Michael Ortiz68 said:The exact same thing happened in the Netherlands. It wasn't until Mark Rutte adopted some "Wilders-esque" rhetoric that his party actually gained momentum while the PVV began to slide.

As for what’s happening with the Swedes, I can't say for certain, but Stefan Löfven and the migration minister cooked up some new migrant policy that apparently caused Sara Karlsson to resign, calling it anti-migrant. Whether it was just political theater for the voters remains to be seen, but if it was, it likely worked.

On another note, you have to hand it to the Swedes for that 85% turnout. I suspect it might even top the Netherlands, where they also saw numbers north of 80%.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Honestly, though, major props to them for the turnout... it’s pretty rare to see people showing up in such massive numbers everywhere else...

Lisa Thomas3 said:You weren't just talking about the Democratic Party; you were talking about parties across Europe in general, and their only common thread is anti-immigration policy. Go ahead, feel free to explain what you meant by "Extremists might be rising in normal countries"—who exactly are these rising extremists, and why are they considered extremists?
I don't see an increase in extremism anywhere; I just see an increase in anti-immigration parties throughout Europe (or more accurately, parties advocating for border control and immigration management).

Fine, glad we could agree that this "ceiling" is purely your own invention and hasn't actually been proven anywhere in practice yet.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as a "ceiling." Anti-immigration parties are effectively in power in half of Europe, and in the other half, they've become major second or third players that drastically shape national policy.
Moving forward, those other countries will either reach a compromise on immigration—meaning actual border control—or they'll keep ignoring the issue until these parties inevitably take power...

I mean, obviously it hasn't been proven. I guess how would you even go about proving something like that? 🍿

And yeah, I wasn't just focusing on the Democratic Party; I was talking about all the parties in that vein, like the Alt-Right or various nationalist movements. Those groups are extremist in every sense of the word, not just when it comes to immigration policy.

frozenpuma69 said:I mean, obviously it hasn't been proven. I guess how would you even go about proving something like that? 🍿

And yeah, I wasn't just focusing on the Democratic Party; I was talking about all the parties in that vein, like the Alt-Right or various nationalist movements. Those groups are extremist in every sense of the word, not just when it comes to immigration policy.

Even if they are, who else is there? What’s the actual alternative? It feels like the mainstream parties won't even admit there's a massive problem to begin with.

If they actually had a solution—or even just a rough blueprint for the long term—why aren't they putting it out there?

Parallel societies within these countries with high immigration levels just keep growing...

The Democratic Party is seeing massive momentum in Scania, where they managed to sweep 21 out of 33 municipalities during the local elections. Even in Hobby, they pulled in over 35% of the vote.

Here is an interesting bit: the Moderate Party in Malmo is just one seat away from ousting the Social Democrats, and they might find that seat sitting right within the Democratic Party. To prevent this, the Social Democrats actually offered to let the Moderates join their coalition, but the Moderates turned them down—they didn't want to be stuck in a "minority role."😁 They'd rather hold their own, even if they end up needing a single vote from the Democratic Party, primarily because the Democratic Party doesn't demand any concessions in return. It turns out everyone is looking for a way to kick the Social Democrats out of power in Malmo for the first time in 24 years.

That said, it looks like the Moderate Party might not even need that extra help from the Democratic Party; analysts are suggesting that seat will likely fall their way once the overseas votes are tallied.