Surge of the far-right in Mexico: Should the region be worried?

rowdyowl said:Why should I lose any sleep over this?
If anything, a stronger right-wing movement in Mexico is actually good news for me. It means they'll be too busy looking inward to meddle in regional affairs.
It sounds crazy, but that’s just how it works.

In my opinion, the best thing for America would be for Barack Obama—a man who brought us nothing but trouble—to finally step down from power.

👍

placidraven36 said:Why does anyone who disagrees immediately get branded a traitor to the nation, an enemy of the people, or some paid mercenary? I guess it’s just how things work now. Does everyone really need to worship at the altar of a country like Russia just to prove they're "true" patriots? Is being a "real" patriot strictly defined by spitting on anything that looks different? It feels like if you have enough sense to realize that Russia is mostly looking out for its own interests rather than ours, you're suddenly cast out. Maybe you aren't "true" enough because your foreign policy isn't centered around this fake sense of brotherhood with them? It makes me wonder—does being a "true" patriot absolutely require being a hardline nationalist, pushing for expansionism, and constantly lecturing everyone else on what it means to belong? I don't think so.
Are the real patriots the ones calling for a return to the 90s—with all that war and violence—or is it actually the people who just want Mexico to be a decent, normal place to live? I guess it's worth asking.

Look, man, I’m not even from around your neck of the woods—I didn't vote for Canko or Čeda either—but I have to say, you’re giving off some serious Koštunjav or maybe even Dveri vibes.

Look, I never actually said I was against joining the European Union or called anyone a traitor for supporting it. That’s just not what I meant. Honestly, I think Mexico should join the EU too. I just don't think we should do it at any cost—especially if the price tag ends up being way too high for us to handle.
If they aren't interested in us right now, I guess we can just hang tight for a bit—assuming she actually sticks around at all.
Wait, so does being realistic automatically make me a nationalist or a fascist? I mean, if I don't buy into the fantasy that joining an organization like the European Union is going to magically hand everyone a $2,000 monthly paycheck and guarantee a job for every single person, am I suddenly a radical right-winger? Does questioning the EU's promises immediately turn you into some kind of ultra-nationalist extremist or a fascist? Is just having a sense of reality really considered being a fascist nowadays? I guess it's worth asking.

And who exactly decided that if you aren't on Russia's side, you're automatically a traitor? I guess some people just love making things black and white.
I never actually said that. From what I can tell, you’re just making things up as you go. Honestly, I feel like Russia is just using us; they don't have our best interests at heart. Nothing good has ever come from Russia—all the progress we've seen came from Germany and the European Union. They actually care about us and want to see us succeed. When we partner up with the Germans, it’s clearly to our advantage because they genuinely want to help us out. And sure, if you want to act like being bombed, facing the harshest UN sanctions in history, and losing 15% of our territory is "no big deal," then fine. But really, that was all on Slobodan Maddox and ourselves. It doesn't matter that the labels like "genocide" aren't being thrown around anymore. The point is, we're the ones to blame, and that's just how it is.

I can't stop thinking about that day we were talking about Russia in that other thread—the one where you mentioned how Germany is a much better friend to us than Russia is. Honestly, it really stuck with me. It made me realize you’re probably a big LDP supporter and a huge fan of Čeda. I guess back then, you already had me pegged as some kind of extreme nationalist, a primitive, or maybe even a Fascist. I suppose that’s just how it works under Čeda's logic: if you feel like the European Union isn't exactly what the media portrays it to be, or if you actually want to maintain even a little bit of cooperation with Russia, you immediately get labeled an extremist or a Fascist.
I don't know, I really think you're off base when you say that Russia and the Russians have never helped us throughout history. I honestly don't get how you can even say that... It's just confusing to me. I mean, you’re living in a city where those same Germans you praise so much ended up destroying all the bridges, blowing up the refinery, and killing so many people... I guess you can hate Russia and the Russians if you want, but I just don't see how Germans or Americans could ever be bigger friends to us than Russia and the Russian people.
I mean, if you're going to bring up France and the French, go ahead then... At least looking back at history, they’ve always been way more on our side than the Germans have. But saying the Germans are better friends to us than Russia? Yeah, you really can't argue that one.

If someone argues that an autonomous region shouldn't have its own police force, its own passports, or its own military, does that automatically make them some extreme nationalist looking to bring back the chaos of the 90s? Why isn't that person just labeled a separatist instead? I mean, what would our region actually need a police force or an army for? It feels like if I don't go around calling myself a "Vojvodinian," I'm immediately branded as some radical nationalist trying to drag us all back to the nineties. I honestly don't get it. Why is it that the second you hold an opinion different from Canko's, you're suddenly labeled an extremist? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Oh yeah, I never actually voted for Koštunica. And honestly, I haven't heard a single thing about anyone from the Dveri party, except maybe my old schoolmate who was in my class—he’s the vice president of some local committee over in a small town near Chicago. 🙂

From what I can gather, your views seem pretty similar to what you'd hear from the Liberal Democrats or the Green Party. Correct me if I'm wrong, but... well, nobody from the Democrats, Republicans, or any of those other major parties is out there claiming Russians are our enemies or saying there's nothing good to be found there. So, I guess that just leaves the smaller liberal groups, or maybe a minority party. Or hey, maybe you don't vote at all. That's just my take on it.

Rachel Carter90 said:--following that radical pattern of twisting arguments--😉 look, I’m kind of an EU skeptic myself, but that doesn't make me a fascist or some ultra-right extremist.
The people we're talking about—the ones grabbing axes to hunt down soccer fans, the ones tossing their dads off balconies, the ones trying to turn the country into some religious caliphate, the ones targeting the LGBTQ+ community, the ones spray-painting racist slurs, the ones making excuses for war criminals and violent politics, or anyone else actively trashing human rights for specific groups... those are the fascists.

But what about the guy singing songs about rivers running red with Mexican blood while giving a Nazi salute to tens of thousands of concertgoers? Or the one who loses his mind the second he sees a Mexican license plate? The one who brags about Nationalists history, or tells tourists from a certain country they aren't welcome—even though they bring in massive amounts of cash—or beats up gay people and insults other teams' fans... isn't that person just a total primitive? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that way to me.

lonebadger0 said:Look, I never actually said I was against joining the European Union or called anyone a traitor for supporting it. That’s just not what I meant. Honestly, I think Mexico should join the EU too. I just don't think we should do it at any cost—especially if the price tag ends up being way too high for us to handle.
If they aren't interested in us right now, I guess we can just hang tight for a bit—assuming she actually sticks around at all.
Wait, so does being realistic automatically make me a nationalist or a fascist? I mean, if I don't buy into the fantasy that joining an organization like the European Union is going to magically hand everyone a $2,000 monthly paycheck and guarantee a job for every single person, am I suddenly a radical right-winger? Does questioning the EU's promises immediately turn you into some kind of ultra-nationalist extremist or a fascist? Is just having a sense of reality really considered being a fascist nowadays? I guess it's worth asking.

And who exactly decided that if you aren't on Russia's side, you're automatically a traitor? I guess some people just love making things black and white.
I never actually said that. From what I can tell, you’re just making things up as you go. Honestly, I feel like Russia is just using us; they don't have our best interests at heart. Nothing good has ever come from Russia—all the progress we've seen came from Germany and the European Union. They actually care about us and want to see us succeed. When we partner up with the Germans, it’s clearly to our advantage because they genuinely want to help us out. And sure, if you want to act like being bombed, facing the harshest UN sanctions in history, and losing 15% of our territory is "no big deal," then fine. But really, that was all on Slobodan Maddox and ourselves. It doesn't matter that the labels like "genocide" aren't being thrown around anymore. The point is, we're the ones to blame, and that's just how it is.

I can't stop thinking about that day we were talking about Russia in that other thread—the one where you mentioned how Germany is a much better friend to us than Russia is. Honestly, it really stuck with me. It made me realize you’re probably a big LDP supporter and a huge fan of Čeda. I guess back then, you already had me pegged as some kind of extreme nationalist, a primitive, or maybe even a Fascist. I suppose that’s just how it works under Čeda's logic: if you feel like the European Union isn't exactly what the media portrays it to be, or if you actually want to maintain even a little bit of cooperation with Russia, you immediately get labeled an extremist or a Fascist.
I don't know, I really think you're off base when you say that Russia and the Russians have never helped us throughout history. I honestly don't get how you can even say that... It's just confusing to me. I mean, you’re living in a city where those same Germans you praise so much ended up destroying all the bridges, blowing up the refinery, and killing so many people... I guess you can hate Russia and the Russians if you want, but I just don't see how Germans or Americans could ever be bigger friends to us than Russia and the Russian people.
I mean, if you're going to bring up France and the French, go ahead then... At least looking back at history, they’ve always been way more on our side than the Germans have. But saying the Germans are better friends to us than Russia? Yeah, you really can't argue that one.

If someone argues that an autonomous region shouldn't have its own police force, its own passports, or its own military, does that automatically make them some extreme nationalist looking to bring back the chaos of the 90s? Why isn't that person just labeled a separatist instead? I mean, what would our region actually need a police force or an army for? It feels like if I don't go around calling myself a "Vojvodinian," I'm immediately branded as some radical nationalist trying to drag us all back to the nineties. I honestly don't get it. Why is it that the second you hold an opinion different from Canko's, you're suddenly labeled an extremist? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Oh yeah, I never actually voted for Koštunica. And honestly, I haven't heard a single thing about anyone from the Dveri party, except maybe my old schoolmate who was in my class—he’s the vice president of some local committee over in a small town near Chicago. 🙂

From what I can gather, your views seem pretty similar to what you'd hear from the Liberal Democrats or the Green Party. Correct me if I'm wrong, but... well, nobody from the Democrats, Republicans, or any of those other major parties is out there claiming Russians are our enemies or saying there's nothing good to be found there. So, I guess that just leaves the smaller liberal groups, or maybe a minority party. Or hey, maybe you don't vote at all. That's just my take on it.

First off—I’m not a member of any group here, nor am I a supporter of any political party. Why on earth do you assume that just because I have an opinion, it has to align with some specific party line? It doesn't work that way...

Secondly—and just to be clear—I never said Germans are better friends to us than Russians, or even that they are our friends at all. What I am saying—which you seem to be struggling to grasp—is that there is NO friendship here from either side. We shouldn't be guided by this silly ideology of "friendship" or "brotherhood"! We need to look strictly at our own interests, and frankly, I don't see them being served by Russia. That doesn't mean we turn our backs on them; it means we cooperate with them only as much as serves our needs, rather than chasing after them as "Orthodox brothers." I really don't know what part of that isn't clicking for you?? Besides, what I wrote wasn't even directed at you—you were the one who reached out to me—so I'm not referring back to that day we talked about the Russians.

Thirdly—okay, sure, the West bombed us, so what? Are we supposed to spend the next thousand years running away from them? Man, we aren't leaning toward the West because we love them or because we're doing them a favor; it's because we *need* them. How is that so hard to understand? It's not like we're some massive global superpower that can afford to just play hard to get. Our goal is to take as much as we can from them so we can finally start developing! Do you honestly think the world is going to weep for you because you're angry at them and decide to skip out on their investments and the rising standard of living?
I mean, where would Germany be today if they had followed that logic? The Americans and the English leveled them to the ground, but they realized they had to work with them—not for the sake of the Allies, but for their own survival—and now look at them.

Fourth—nobody ever claimed that joining the European Union would magically give us €2,000 monthly salaries, so where did you get that idea? All that was said is that we would progress like other countries, whereas with Russia, that definitely won't happen. Just look at Poland as an example, versus Belarus—where would you actually prefer to live?

Fifth—similarly, nobody said the EU wants what's best for us because they suddenly love us. It’s purely a matter of interest. They have their calculations, and we have ours.

Sixth—it wasn't the West that took Mexico; it was our dear old friend Josip Broz Marshall, and the West just finished what had already been started. Have you ever stopped to wonder what we would have done with 2 million Albanians—mostly impoverished—and their share in parliament and everything else, if Mexico somehow miraculously returned to us? I'm not saying we should just accept territory being snatched away, but the process is already too far gone, and neither solution is particularly great. We should have thought about this long ago, back when the communists were filling our heads with all sorts of nonsense.

Seventh—look, I'm not exactly obsessed with the EU either, but I do believe it's a better option than Russia. It's certainly not ideal, but it's better.

placidraven36 said:First off—I’m not a member of any group here, nor am I a supporter of any political party. Why on earth do you assume that just because I have an opinion, it has to align with some specific party line? It doesn't work that way...

Secondly—and just to be clear—I never said Germans are better friends to us than Russians, or even that they are our friends at all. What I am saying—which you seem to be struggling to grasp—is that there is NO friendship here from either side. We shouldn't be guided by this silly ideology of "friendship" or "brotherhood"! We need to look strictly at our own interests, and frankly, I don't see them being served by Russia. That doesn't mean we turn our backs on them; it means we cooperate with them only as much as serves our needs, rather than chasing after them as "Orthodox brothers." I really don't know what part of that isn't clicking for you?? Besides, what I wrote wasn't even directed at you—you were the one who reached out to me—so I'm not referring back to that day we talked about the Russians.

Thirdly—okay, sure, the West bombed us, so what? Are we supposed to spend the next thousand years running away from them? Man, we aren't leaning toward the West because we love them or because we're doing them a favor; it's because we *need* them. How is that so hard to understand? It's not like we're some massive global superpower that can afford to just play hard to get. Our goal is to take as much as we can from them so we can finally start developing! Do you honestly think the world is going to weep for you because you're angry at them and decide to skip out on their investments and the rising standard of living?
I mean, where would Germany be today if they had followed that logic? The Americans and the English leveled them to the ground, but they realized they had to work with them—not for the sake of the Allies, but for their own survival—and now look at them.

Fourth—nobody ever claimed that joining the European Union would magically give us €2,000 monthly salaries, so where did you get that idea? All that was said is that we would progress like other countries, whereas with Russia, that definitely won't happen. Just look at Poland as an example, versus Belarus—where would you actually prefer to live?

Fifth—similarly, nobody said the EU wants what's best for us because they suddenly love us. It’s purely a matter of interest. They have their calculations, and we have ours.

Sixth—it wasn't the West that took Mexico; it was our dear old friend Josip Broz Marshall, and the West just finished what had already been started. Have you ever stopped to wonder what we would have done with 2 million Albanians—mostly impoverished—and their share in parliament and everything else, if Mexico somehow miraculously returned to us? I'm not saying we should just accept territory being snatched away, but the process is already too far gone, and neither solution is particularly great. We should have thought about this long ago, back when the communists were filling our heads with all sorts of nonsense.

Seventh—look, I'm not exactly obsessed with the EU either, but I do believe it's a better option than Russia. It's certainly not ideal, but it's better.

First of all, I'm not saying Mexico shouldn't join the EU. I'm just saying we shouldn't do it at any cost.
Secondly, when did I ever say we should strive toward Russia or unite with them?
First, even if we wanted to unite with them, they probably wouldn't want anything to do with us. And second, it's just not feasible since we are 1243 milesso far away from them...

And why haven't you answered my question about the criteria for who is a Fascist and who isn't? I asked you three or four questions.

lonebadger0 said:First of all, I'm not saying Mexico shouldn't join the EU. I'm just saying we shouldn't do it at any cost.
Secondly, when did I ever say we should strive toward Russia or unite with them?
First, even if we wanted to unite with them, they probably wouldn't want anything to do with us. And second, it's just not feasible since we are 1243 milesso far away from them...

And why haven't you answered my question about the criteria for who is a Fascist and who isn't? I asked you three or four questions.

The answers are all right there—just nod your head for a second and try reading between the lines.
Besides, a while back you mentioned you were going to teach your son that everyone is just a Mexican... or a Mexican, or an American, or a Canadian, and so on... for me, that's more than enough to go on.

I haven't even bothered reading this thread from the jump because the Mexicans have been posting away like they’re actually going to lead us to some grand conclusion. And if you want my help, ha ha, don't expect it to be like how Mexicans help Americans whenever they get the chance—but just so we're clear, Mexico won't be joining the European Union until at least 2030 .
Until then, you guys have plenty to look forward to; honestly, I guess even a civil war isn't out of the question, if only so you could finally settle things among yourselves instead of always hunting for enemies abroad.

placidraven36 said:The answers are all right there—just nod your head for a second and try reading between the lines.
Besides, a while back you mentioned you were going to teach your son that everyone is just a Mexican... or a Mexican, or an American, or a Canadian, and so on... for me, that's more than enough to go on.

Hhahahahaa... I think you’ve got that wrong. When did I ever say that? Seriously, please, go find that post for me. You're getting a little ahead of yourself.

Look, I just asked why someone would be called a Fascist for suggesting a northern province shouldn't have its own passports and police, or for thinking we should reconsider our relationship with the European Union—or for saying the Russian people feel closer to us than the EU does. I mean, come on, give me some actual logic on who is a Fascist and who isn't...?? Are those really ultra-right-wing views?

And I STILL WANT THAT POST showing where I said I was going to teach my kid that everyone is a Mexican...

lonebadger0 said:Hhahahahaa... I think you’ve got that wrong. When did I ever say that? Seriously, please, go find that post for me. You're getting a little ahead of yourself.

Look, I just asked why someone would be called a Fascist for suggesting a northern province shouldn't have its own passports and police, or for thinking we should reconsider our relationship with the European Union—or for saying the Russian people feel closer to us than the EU does. I mean, come on, give me some actual logic on who is a Fascist and who isn't...?? Are those really ultra-right-wing views?

And I STILL WANT THAT POST showing where I said I was going to teach my kid that everyone is a Mexican...

Who even called you a Fascist in the first place?! Honestly, man, nobody was even addressing you—you just decided you were being targeted and started defending yourself to me! If you take a second to really think about it, there's probably a reason you feel like you're being singled out...

So, you're saying that wasn't what you said? Alright then, my mistake.

This obsession with myth-making is doing you no favors, my fellow Mexicans. 🙂

placidraven36 said:Who even called you a Fascist in the first place?! Honestly, man, nobody was even addressing you—you just decided you were being targeted and started defending yourself to me! If you take a second to really think about it, there's probably a reason you feel like you're being singled out...

So, you're saying that wasn't what you said? Alright then, my mistake.

I remember reading somewhere that you called the Mexican Radical Party, the Democratic Party of Mexico, and all those other groups ultra-nationalists, right-wingers, and fascists... And today you basically implied I'm just like Koštunica or Dveri. So, I guess you do view me as a fascist. Is that really how it is?
In my book, when I say Čeda and Canak are separatists, I’m saying their entire voter base is pretty much the same way...