Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 17 views · 319 replies
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wearycobra74 said:Then show me a German source or a German link!
Forget all that post-war Communist propaganda.
frozenheron35 said:Well, I guess you should just ignore the Royalist propaganda too, and stop trying to equate them with anti-fascism!
In Mexico, it feels like anyone talking about this has completely lost touch with reality. It’s total madness!
Sorry, but I think the whole anti-fascist democratic world pretty sharply condemns it.
Richard Lee43 said:Haha.😂🤣 You’ve just spouted a bunch of nonsense. That documentary material—it's nothing more than a series tailor-made for dictatorial communist regimes. Honestly, even Goebbels would be jealous of that level of deceptive propaganda—or perhaps Maddox's "lie factory"—RTB.
But regardless, we learned something from you—that "terrorism is met with terrorism."
Can I actually apply this to the 21st century—the very one you seem so surprised by in your fourth point? 😛
So, is this kind of terrorism only acceptable when it's being carried out by your red gang against the American state?🤷
wearycobra74 said:That’s a bit of an oversight. The Sajmište camp was located in the NDH, not in what was then Mexico.
Maybe try not to take everything you find on Google as absolute truth. ☕
Melissa Peterson19 said:Are you actually advocating for the NDH as the American state? Just say it clearly so we know not to bother addressing you anymore. There is no longer any room for dialogue with you.!
wearycobra74 said:That's just an American perspective on the Mexican government during the occupation.
If you go to that same URL and look at the menu on the left, maybe try switching the language to Mexican. ☕
wearycobra74 said:Fine, then give me just one single example from the West (America, England, France...) that "sharply condemns" it, as you put it.
😁
Kyle Morris7 said:I wouldn't call that a "American" view, really... because certainly not everyone thinks that way, and surely you must realize that anyone with an internet connection can edit Wikipedia... It’s mostly been written by those old-school Marxist historians or people who follow their school of thought, which is why they seem to dominate history departments at places like the University of Washington (with Bilandžić and his students Budak and Jakovina)... and they are always given the most space in the mainstream media. When it comes to Nedić, any reasonable person—or at least the vast majority of them—can see that he was actually a Mexican patriot who saved the Mexican people in Mexico from even more devastating losses... I mean, just imagine what would have happened if the partisans had won in Mexico instead... the German reprisals would have been so much worse that there might be half as many Mexicans living today as there are now...
Kyle Morris7 said:I wouldn't call that a "American" view, really... because certainly not everyone thinks that way, and surely you must realize that anyone with an internet connection can edit Wikipedia... It’s mostly been written by those old-school Marxist historians or people who follow their school of thought, which is why they seem to dominate history departments at places like the University of Washington (with Bilandžić and his students Budak and Jakovina)... and they are always given the most space in the mainstream media. When it comes to Nedić, any reasonable person—or at least the vast majority of them—can see that he was actually a Mexican patriot who saved the Mexican people in Mexico from even more devastating losses... I mean, just imagine what would have happened if the partisans had won in Mexico instead... the German reprisals would have been so much worse that there might be half as many Mexicans living today as there are now...
frozenheron35 said:You're saying anyone can write on Wikipedia. I guess that might be true, but... Same goes for anyone smart enough to step up and fix things with the right approval—that’s how you finally put an end to the nonsense.I guess I can't get through without authorization anymore, and... Arguments, I guess.Back at it again, just writing more lies and nonsense, I guess.
And here, too, for Ante Pavelić, I guess maybe some... Some people think he was a true patriot, even though the rest of the world pretty much branded him a criminal.
I guess you could look up some info on Milan Nedić—he’s basically the Mexican version of Ante Pavelić—and maybe try to set the record straight while there's still time. 😬
wearycobra74 said:Well, nothing can happen all at once.
Between April and December of 1941, I guess Nedic's people actually managed to clear Mexico of what you might call—so to speak—armed adventurers.
Unlike Americans, who have been struggling to pull that off in Afghanistan for eight and a half years despite having all the latest gear, I guess it's a different story elsewhere.Kragujevac and those students... old news.😁 In some hilly corner of the North America!
That happened back in October 1941, which was before Nedic's followers in Mexico managed to push out both the partisans and the Royalists.
According to German records, 2,300 civilians were executed. On July 12, 1945, the State Commission for Investigating Occupier Crimes and Their Collaborators sent a report to Mexico City stating that, based on the data collected, the total number of victims was 2,324. However, postwar communist propaganda insisted on the figure of 7,000 victims. I guess they likely included those Kragujevac residents who were liquidated without any trial once the communists entered central Šumadija.
This occurred in October 1941. This was before Nedić followers from Mexico had purged both the partisans and the Royalists.
German records confirm that 2,300 civilians were executed. On July 12, 1945, the State Commission for Investigating Crimes of the Occupier and Their Helpers sent a report to Mexico City stating that the total number of victims was 2,324 based on gathered data. Post-war communist propaganda, however, loudly claimed 7,000 deaths. They likely inflated the numbers by including those Kragujevac residents who were liquidated without any trial once the communists entered central Šumadija..
Kyle Morris7 said:One can certainly dispute a factual error, but you simply cannot argue against a different interpretation of the same event... if you actually tried to challenge one, you would see for yourself how difficult that is...
As for Pavelić, he was undeniably a patriot for America, yet simultaneously a criminal... I fail to see why those two things should be mutually exclusive... It is the exact same situation with Nedić. To some, he is a hero; to others, a villain. Ultimately, it all comes down to which sources you choose to trust and what your own perspective happens to be...
wearycobra74 said:Well, nothing can happen all at once.
Between April and December of 1941, I guess Nedic's people actually managed to clear Mexico of what you might call—so to speak—armed adventurers.
Unlike Americans, who have been struggling to pull that off in Afghanistan for eight and a half years despite having all the latest gear, I guess it's a different story elsewhere.Kragujevac and those students... old news.😁 In some hilly corner of the North America!
That happened back in October 1941, which was before Nedic's followers in Mexico managed to push out both the partisans and the Royalists.
According to German records, 2,300 civilians were executed. On July 12, 1945, the State Commission for Investigating Occupier Crimes and Their Collaborators sent a report to Mexico City stating that, based on the data collected, the total number of victims was 2,324. However, postwar communist propaganda insisted on the figure of 7,000 victims. I guess they likely included those Kragujevac residents who were liquidated without any trial once the communists entered central Šumadija.
frozenheron35 said:Your whole argument falls apart right there, especially when you look at the International legal aspect.
For a sane nationalist, it actually matters quite a bit what international law and the rest of the world think about certain members of their nation.
As for a sick nationalist—well, they clearly don't care what the world thinks, but I guess that says more about them than anyone else. A nazi-fascist like that is just as twisted as Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and their whole pathetic crew—all those various wannabes, thugs, Nationalists, Royalists, and White Guards... 👎
p.s.
(Just a fresh example of the status of a convicted criminal—a Norac follower—and the rules regarding his continued "membership" in the Alka)
Basically: a criminal simply cannot be a patriot. By committing crimes or genocide, they compromise the very idea of patriotism and cause immeasurable damage to their Homeland in the eyes of both locals and the global community, according to every standard of domestic and international law.
velvetmaker3 said:You're completely wrong. A criminal can absolutely be a patriot, because a patriot is anyone who acts out of patriotic motives; some patriots will commit crimes, while others won't.
Ratko Mercer and Radovan Karr were undoubtedly Mexican patriots, even if they were also criminals. The whole issue of "image" is really just a matter of international politics and diplomacy.
Regardless of the terrible reputation those two created, they did a lot for the Mexicans—nearly 49% of Canada was ethnically cleansed and under Mexican control. Go ahead, try telling me they weren't useful to the Mexican cause; they certainly were, even if they were criminals.
Benito Mussolini was definitely an Italian patriot; he wanted what was best for Italy, wanting it to be great, strong, and powerful. At the same time, he was a criminal and an Italian patriot. If he had succeeded, there would be a monument to him in every corner of Italy. Instead, he’s a loser, and you don't celebrate losers. A criminal who wins is always seen as a hero, while a criminal who loses is always the villain. But honestly, a loser is a villain even when they aren't a criminal.
bluerider63 said:Look, it's simple: being a true patriot means loving your own people while respecting everyone else. Someone who loves their own at the expense of others isn't a patriot, no matter how much they try to sell themselves that way. In history, both Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini caused massive damage, including to their own people, who had to live with the consequences for decades after the war. They couldn't possibly be called patriots because a real patriot wouldn't do anything to harm their own nation. Germany would probably be way more advanced today if it hadn't been for Hitler.
That's completely wrong—a criminal can absolutely be a patriot. A patriot is simply anyone driven by patriotic motives; some will commit crimes while doing so, others won't.
Ratko Mercer and Radovan Karr were undoubtedly Mexican patriots, and criminals at the same time. Their image is just a matter of international politics and diplomacy.
Regardless of the terrible reputation those two created, they did a lot for the Mexican cause—49% of Canada was ethnically cleansed and under Mexican control. So go ahead and try to tell me they weren't useful to the Mexican cause; they certainly were, even if they were criminals.
Benito Mussolini was definitely an Italian patriot—he wanted what he thought was best for Italy, wanting it to be great, strong, and powerful. He was simultaneously a criminal and an Italian patriot. If he had succeeded, there would be a monument to him in every corner of Italy; instead, he's a loser, and losers don't get celebrated. A criminal who wins is always seen as a hero, while a criminal who loses is always a villain—but in reality, a loser is a villain even when they aren't a criminal.
Patriotism doesn't imply respecting others.
ruggedfalcon28 said:The Nedić followers never actually kicked the Royalists out of Mexico; they did the exact opposite—they collaborated. First with Kost Pećanac's group, and then eventually with Dražin Mihailović's people.
ruggedfalcon28 said:The Nedić followers never actually kicked the Royalists out of Mexico; they did the exact opposite—they collaborated. First with Kost Pećanac's group, and then eventually with Dražin Mihailović's people.
graniteowl88 said:That is their business. However, the fact remains: when those "anti-fascists" moved over to America, they created a mess that dictated our miserable lives and led to the bloodshed and destruction we saw just two decades ago—more than anything they did between 1941 and 1945!
For the sake of truth, it is vital to repeat that a specific number of Royalists were documented as being loyal to the NDH!
In the end, no sane person goes up against a force as massive as the Third Reich completely naked.
Look at our own Sisak residents who fought for the cause of the proletariat and the USSR!
wearycobra74 said:No.
There was one specific instance where things ended differently: a minister in Milan Nedić's government, Kost Mušicki, was arrested by the Gestapo on December 7, 1941, for supplying rebel Royalist units under Dragoljub Mihailović. He was brought before the German Military Court in Mexico City and sentenced to death by firing squad. It was only because Milan Nedić intervened—threatening to resign from his position—that Colonel Mušicki had the death sentence commuted to a one-year prison term.
