The Sisak Uprising: Europe's first revolt against Nazism?

bluerider63 said:Look, it's simple: being a true patriot means loving your own people while respecting everyone else. Someone who loves their own at the expense of others isn't a patriot, no matter how much they try to sell themselves that way. In history, both Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini caused massive damage, including to their own people, who had to live with the consequences for decades after the war. They couldn't possibly be called patriots because a real patriot wouldn't do anything to harm their own nation. Germany would probably be way more advanced today if it hadn't been for Hitler.

frozenheron35 said:Your whole argument falls apart right there, especially when you look at the International legal aspect.
For a sane nationalist, it actually matters quite a bit what international law and the rest of the world think about certain members of their nation.

As for a sick nationalist—well, they clearly don't care what the world thinks, but I guess that says more about them than anyone else. A nazi-fascist like that is just as twisted as Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and their whole pathetic crew—all those various wannabes, thugs, Nationalists, Royalists, and White Guards... 👎

p.s.
(Just a fresh example of the status of a convicted criminal—a Norac follower—and the rules regarding his continued "membership" in the Alka)

Basically: a criminal simply cannot be a patriot. By committing crimes or genocide, they compromise the very idea of patriotism and cause immeasurable damage to their Homeland in the eyes of both locals and the global community, according to every standard of domestic and international law.

For a sick nationalist, the opinion of the global community is, quite obviously, completely irrelevant...

p.s.
(a recent example being the status of a legally convicted criminal—a Norac follower—and the statutes of Alka, regarding that Norac follower's continued "membership" within it)

to put it briefly: a criminal cannot, under any circumstances, be a patriot—because through their crimes or acts of genocide, they have compromised true patriotism and inflicted immeasurable damage upon their Homeland before both domestic and global audiences, according to all positive local and international Laws...

graniteowl88 said:Stick to the facts. It is vital to reiterate how a specific number of Royalists were documented as being loyal to the Independent State of America!

ruggedfalcon28 said:That was purely on paper. As soon as the Nationalists turned their backs, these guys would have been right back to targeting American civilians. Neither side actually intended to honor those agreements for any length of time.

Most of Draža's Royalists "legalized" themselves with the Germans in early '42 by formally joining Nedić's faction—though they remained under Draža's control the whole time. Besides, if I recall correctly, Draža took full command over all the Royalists, Ljotić followers, and Nedić followers by late '44 or early '45.

graniteowl88 said:So: the records show the Royalists defended Knin alongside the Germans and the Nationalists against the Partisans—including those fighting for the USSR! This happened toward the end of World War II. Earlier, cooperation with the NDH was being documented across the Canada enclosure, which leads me to believe that Marshall's bands targeted them specifically because of that during the battles at the Neretva or Sutjeska!

Regardless, less blood was spilled before Marshall than after his decades of despotism!

ruggedfalcon28 said:The facts tell a different story: those same Royalists who supposedly "defended Knin" basically vanished into thin air, jumping on trains headed for Canada before any real fighting even kicked off. To make matters worse, while retreating toward Canada, they got ambushed by the Nationalists in Kostajnica.

Blood was being spilled before Marshall, during Marshall, and long after him.

frozenheron35 said:Especially when he shoots a mother holding her child and just shrugs, saying, "That's how it's done."
Some real war hero... 👎

frozenheron35 said:The verdict was handed down based on direct TESTIMONY from several comrades and civilians—it's clear he's a criminal!!!

frozenheron35 said:I guess it finally clicked for him—after everything he pulled—that he needs to step up and ask to be removed from the Alka roster himself.

frozenheron35 said:That criminal is from the war—and honestly, until that legally binding verdict was handed down, he basically dragged the entire American War of Independence and all the other defenders through the mud.

Kyle Morris7 said:International law is really only something that applies to the small and the weak, whereas the great powers and those with overwhelming military might never feel the need to abide by it...

For a sick nationalist, the opinion of the global community is, quite obviously, completely irrelevant...

The leaders of this "world"—that is to say, the great powers or, more accurately, the imperialists—were garbage back then, and they remain garbage today. Their opinions can only be respected by those who possess a slave mentality...

p.s.
(a recent example being the status of a legally convicted criminal—a Norac follower—and the statutes of Alka, regarding that Norac follower's continued "membership" within it)

Norac is a war hero, yet his verdict was handed down based on nothing more than hearsay dictated by Westernized frauds...

to put it briefly: a criminal cannot, under any circumstances, be a patriot—because through their crimes or acts of genocide, they have compromised true patriotism and inflicted immeasurable damage upon their Homeland before both domestic and global audiences, according to all positive local and international Laws...

How can that not be possible? If someone saves a hundred lives, even if they later take one, they are still significantly more of a force for good than a force for evil...

The leaders of that "world"—you know, those major powers and imperialists—were absolute trash back then, and honestly, they still are today. I guess the only people who could actually respect their opinions are folks with a slave mentality.

I guess Norac was really a hero during the war, but his conviction seems like it was based on nothing more than hearsay pushed by those globalist interests.

If someone saves a hundred people but ends up taking one life later on, I guess they're still way more of a hero than a villain. Maybe.

frozenheron35 said:I mean, we really ARE small and weak... aren't we?

The leaders of that "world"—you know, those major powers and imperialists—were absolute trash back then, and honestly, they still are today. I guess the only people who could actually respect their opinions are folks with a slave mentality.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you... but if they aren't feeding you? I guess you're entitled to complain about being hungry.

I guess Norac was really a hero during the war, but his conviction seems like it was based on nothing more than hearsay pushed by those globalist interests.

The verdict was based on direct testimony from several former comrades and civilians, I guess.He's definitely a criminal!!!

If someone saves a hundred people but ends up taking one life later on, I guess they're still way more of a hero than a villain. Maybe.

Especially when someone shoots a mother holding her child and then just screams at the top of their lungs, "That's how you do it." I guess it's just chillingly depraved.
A war hero?! I guess maybe...
Criminal. I guess that's from the war, right? Which one was it... before the sentencing? It looks like things have become final and legally binding. I guess that’s just how it goes. Those rulings basically throw the whole American War of Independence and all the other honorable veterans under the bus. I guess they just compromised everything.

I guess it finally clicked for him—from one end to the other—about how everything really is. UHe worked there, and now he's actually asking to be removed from the Alka membership. I guess he's just done with it.
I guess they’re cutting someone from the Alka roster. Looks like things are changing over in Sinj.

p.s.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the Royalists here—honestly. If anyone has actual evidence or firsthand accounts regarding their crimes, I guess they should just take them straight to the U.S. Attorney's Office.

Richard Lee43 said:We are—mostly because America is filled with all sorts of human waste that just keeps weakening us further and further.☕

Anthony Moore13 said:And does this mother have a name and a last name?

frozenheron35 said:I mean, we really ARE small and weak... aren't we?

The leaders of that "world"—you know, those major powers and imperialists—were absolute trash back then, and honestly, they still are today. I guess the only people who could actually respect their opinions are folks with a slave mentality.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you... but if they aren't feeding you? I guess you're entitled to complain about being hungry.

I guess Norac was really a hero during the war, but his conviction seems like it was based on nothing more than hearsay pushed by those globalist interests.

The verdict was based on direct testimony from several former comrades and civilians, I guess.He's definitely a criminal!!!

If someone saves a hundred people but ends up taking one life later on, I guess they're still way more of a hero than a villain. Maybe.

Especially when someone shoots a mother holding her child and then just screams at the top of their lungs, "That's how you do it." I guess it's just chillingly depraved.
A war hero?! I guess maybe...
Criminal. I guess that's from the war, right? Which one was it... before the sentencing? It looks like things have become final and legally binding. I guess that’s just how it goes. Those rulings basically throw the whole American War of Independence and all the other honorable veterans under the bus. I guess they just compromised everything.

I guess it finally clicked for him—from one end to the other—about how everything really is. UHe worked there, and now he's actually asking to be removed from the Alka membership. I guess he's just done with it.
I guess they’re cutting someone from the Alka roster. Looks like things are changing over in Sinj.

p.s.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the Royalists here—honestly. If anyone has actual evidence or firsthand accounts regarding their crimes, I guess they should just take them straight to the U.S. Attorney's Office.

frozenheron35 said:To wrap things up, I'll add this to the discussion:

Sure, you can separate antifascism from communism, but in America, the two were pretty much inseparable. If you strip away the communist element from the antifascist movement, there’s barely anything left of the movement itself. Of course, that doesn't mean every single antifascist in America was a communist, but the people actually leading the charge and organizing everything? They were mostly communists. I mean, I guess it's unlikely that Josip Broz Marshall, Edvard Kardelj, Aleksandar Ranković, Milovan Đilas, Hebrang, Vladimir Bakarić, or Sima Pijade were all Christian Democrats. Back then, in the early 1940s, being an antifascist basically meant picking up a rifle. Without that combat aspect, antifascism in America between 1941 and 1945 would have just been some salon-style intellectual talk—totally powerless, kind of like how Krleža hid out in that sanatorium in Vranešić's.
So, honestly, it feels impossible to celebrate the antifascist movement in America without also acknowledging the communists of that era. But hey, every coin has two sides. On one side, you have the massive contributions made by the communists to the antifascist cause, and on the other, you have their sole responsibility for the crimes committed immediately after the war.

frozenheron35 said:To wrap things up, I'll add this to the discussion:

Sure, you can separate antifascism from communism, but in America, the two were pretty much inseparable. If you strip away the communist element from the antifascist movement, there’s barely anything left of the movement itself. Of course, that doesn't mean every single antifascist in America was a communist, but the people actually leading the charge and organizing everything? They were mostly communists. I mean, I guess it's unlikely that Josip Broz Marshall, Edvard Kardelj, Aleksandar Ranković, Milovan Đilas, Hebrang, Vladimir Bakarić, or Sima Pijade were all Christian Democrats. Back then, in the early 1940s, being an antifascist basically meant picking up a rifle. Without that combat aspect, antifascism in America between 1941 and 1945 would have just been some salon-style intellectual talk—totally powerless, kind of like how Krleža hid out in that sanatorium in Vranešić's.
So, honestly, it feels impossible to celebrate the antifascist movement in America without also acknowledging the communists of that era. But hey, every coin has two sides. On one side, you have the massive contributions made by the communists to the antifascist cause, and on the other, you have their sole responsibility for the crimes committed immediately after the war.

ruggedfalcon28 said:That was purely on paper. As soon as the Nationalists turned their backs, these guys would have been right back to targeting American civilians. Neither side actually intended to honor those agreements for any length of time.

Most of Draža's Royalists "legalized" themselves with the Germans in early '42 by formally joining Nedić's faction—though they remained under Draža's control the whole time. Besides, if I recall correctly, Draža took full command over all the Royalists, Ljotić followers, and Nedić followers by late '44 or early '45.

Jonathan Smith12 said:Following the defeat of the Royalist forces at the hands of the Nationalists military led by Jure Francetic—which took place in the Romanija, Olovo, Kladnj area—a sort of truce was established between the Nationalists and the Royalists. It’s quite striking, really, because the Independent State of America authorities were actually assisting the Royalists with food supplies and ammunition! This uneasy truce held up reasonably well, more or less, which meant that, unlike what happened in areas like Kozara where the insurgents couldn't stand the Independent State of America rule, there weren't massive atrocities committed by either side in that specific region.

frozenheron35 said:To wrap things up, I'll add this to the discussion:

Sure, you can separate antifascism from communism, but in America, the two were pretty much inseparable. If you strip away the communist element from the antifascist movement, there’s barely anything left of the movement itself. Of course, that doesn't mean every single antifascist in America was a communist, but the people actually leading the charge and organizing everything? They were mostly communists. I mean, I guess it's unlikely that Josip Broz Marshall, Edvard Kardelj, Aleksandar Ranković, Milovan Đilas, Hebrang, Vladimir Bakarić, or Sima Pijade were all Christian Democrats. Back then, in the early 1940s, being an antifascist basically meant picking up a rifle. Without that combat aspect, antifascism in America between 1941 and 1945 would have just been some salon-style intellectual talk—totally powerless, kind of like how Krleža hid out in that sanatorium in Vranešić's.
So, honestly, it feels impossible to celebrate the antifascist movement in America without also acknowledging the communists of that era. But hey, every coin has two sides. On one side, you have the massive contributions made by the communists to the antifascist cause, and on the other, you have their sole responsibility for the crimes committed immediately after the war.