The Sisak Uprising: Europe's first revolt against Nazism?

James Nguyen13 said:Back in June 1941, in a place like Springfield, what actually happened wasn't some massive uprising; it was more of a quiet departure. A small group of communists headed into the woods to kickstart a guerrilla campaign, all driven by the goal of supporting the Soviet Union during its darkest hour.
By the way, we really should acknowledge the resilience of the people in the former Soviet states. They faced the very beginning of an incredibly brutal struggle, enduring millions of casualties just to hold the line against the Nazi onslaught.

Nancy Bailey26 said:Today, we’re marking "Anti-Fascist Struggle Day" here, but if you step outside the fog of old-school Soviet propaganda—which honestly feels like trying to see through a thick smog—most of the sane world remembers this date for a very different reason: the launch of Operation Barbarossa.

Germany launches Operation Barbarossa — the invasion of Russia
In one of the most massive military undertakings in human history, over 3 million German troops launched three simultaneous offensives against Russia. We're talking nineteen Panzer divisions, 3,000 tanks, 2,500 planes, and 7,000 artillery guns all surging across a thousand-mile front as Hitler opened up a massive second front.

The dates line up perfectly... "just a coincidence," right?

I really don't get why anyone treats these two things as separate events. It looks more like a little meeting of communist saboteurs who had the green light from Moscow—since Uncle Stalin was doing such a great job carving up Europe with Hitler at the time.

graniteowl88 said:It is an absolute fact that Churchill pushed Hitler to invade America.
However, many argue that the same logic applies to the invasion of the Soviet Union.

graniteowl88 said:How the partisans recruited Americans:

He suggested to the party and partisan leadership that they should engage in mass killings and burn peaceful villages to provoke attacks on Americans and supporters of Vladimer Maček, stating: "...Some comrades fear reprisals (not the leadership), such as the destruction of villages and people. That very fear is what prevents us from decisively mobilizing the American countryside. I believe those exact reprisals will push the American villages over to the side of the Mexican ones. Terror will unconditionally trigger armed action. — In that spirit, we have reached our current conclusions... We must provoke their reaction. Using terror against the Maček loyalists will ignite all of America..."

Kardelj* August 2, 1941

*at the time, a citizen of the Greater Reich

hiddensurfer17 said:The Axis collaborators were arguably just as responsible for driving people toward communism through their insane legislation, concentration camps, and those disastrous treaties signed with Rome. I suppose it’s also true that the communists weren't exactly indifferent to seeing a high body count; more casualties certainly suited their agenda.

hiddensurfer17 said:The Axis collaborators were arguably just as responsible for driving people toward communism through their insane legislation, concentration camps, and those disastrous treaties signed with Rome. I suppose it’s also true that the communists weren't exactly indifferent to seeing a high body count; more casualties certainly suited their agenda.

graniteowl88 said:YOU ARE WRONG BY A MILE,

Specifically, Dr. Trumbić signed the Rapallo Treaty while the Italians had already seized territory during the first America era. Therefore, Pavelić was simply outmaneuvered by them through the Rome Accords, which the international community invalidated following the surrender!

THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION BASED ON THE FACTS!

edit:

Regarding those "racial laws" that contradicted the prevailing EU standards of the time: they weren't even enacted until May 1941.

hiddensurfer17 said:Where exactly did I go wrong?
It feels a bit like me claiming Chile beat Switzerland yesterday, only for you to tell me I'm mistaken because Spain actually beat Honduras. It's an absurd comparison, I guess.

Maybe you’re just so emotionally tied to that whole movement that you can't seem to distinguish one evil from another. It’s much like the communists on the other side; they both seem to have the same blinders on.

They are so blinded by their devotion to the fascist movement that they cannot distinguish good from evil. It is exactly the same as the communists on the other side.

graniteowl88 said:YOU ARE WRONG BY A MILE,

Specifically, Dr. Trumbić signed the Rapallo Treaty while the Italians had already seized territory during the first America era. Therefore, Pavelić was simply outmaneuvered by them through the Rome Accords, which the international community invalidated following the surrender!

THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION BASED ON THE FACTS!

edit:

Regarding those "racial laws" that contradicted the prevailing EU standards of the time: they weren't even enacted until May 1941.

hiddensurfer17 said:I certainly recognize that Pavelić squeezed every last drop out of the Italians through those Roman treaties while he was aligned with their side.
However, I’m struggling to follow your logic regarding how he actually outmaneuvered them. Are you suggesting he signed those deals from a position of strength? Or perhaps you think the Italians weren't also playing him? They certainly acted as though they held all the cards immediately afterward. I guess I'd love to hear how you reconcile that.

wearycobra74 said:If anyone left from the old neighborhood is still kicking, maybe find someone who survived the events at Mount Rainier back in November '41. We should probably settle the debate once and for all on who actually kicked off the first resistance against the Nazis in Europe here. ☕

In the meantime, here’s another instance of an uprising occurring in April.

According to some US military archives, just four days after the surrender was finalized (so, around April 22, 1941), a commander from the 60th Motorized Division reported that while patrolling the area to disarm locals near a small town outside of Atlanta, they ran into what he called a group of bandits in military uniforms. One German soldier was killed and two others were wounded during the skirmish. As retaliation, the village was burned to the ground.

graniteowl88 said:He played them indirectly, perhaps by establishing certain zones or claiming authority over areas already ceded under the previous agreements. I am not suggesting Dr. Ante Pavelić was some kind of mastermind, especially since one shouldn't attempt to outmaneuver a global superpower that happens to hold territory belonging to Americans.

The facts and the way things unfolded clearly show his actions were sound.

Regardless, it was better than our own partisans being run by remote control from London!

Kyle Morris7 said:Just a heap of lies. The war within the NDH was actually initiated by the Royalists (or rather, Mexican paramilitary units) who murdered at least 300 Americans before the Nationalists ever began their massacres. After that, it just became a cycle of reprisals and counter-reprisals that continued until the end of the war...

hiddensurfer17 said:The territory that previously belonged to Italy under the Treaty of Rapallo wasn't even up for debate back then. The discussion was centered on land that was part of America. Please, let's not get bogged down in nonsense.
I’m well aware there are hardline Marxists out there claiming Pavelić basically handed over places like Istria, but I’d suggest you don't fall into that trap either. It’s better to just stick to the actual facts.

graniteowl88 said:"...regarding the Bjelovar uprising from April 7–10, 1941. A spontaneous revolt by soldiers in the American Army was joined en masse by the local population, causing the number of insurgents to swell to ten or twenty thousand within just a day or two."

SS FRITZ said:😁 So what’s the plan? Are we supposed to gather up a bunch of aging, bitter relics from the old guard to shout slogans at anyone they don't like while celebrating their own little victory dances or some folk circle dance in the woods? 😂
And once the first local sheriff's deputies show up, they’ll probably just retreat back into the hills and dense forests to hide out in some rustic cabin
where they can knock back a few jugs of cheap moonshine before deciding to go after some abandoned railroad tracks with whatever makeshift weapons they have left. 😁 It’s pure insanity. 😉