The Sisak Uprising: Europe's first revolt against Nazism?

So, just to clear things up for anyone who might be confused, today isn't officially designated as the Day of the Uprising, but rather the Day of the Fight Against Fascism

Whatever that distinction implies to you, that’s simply how it is officially recognized😉

graniteowl88 said:Look: just state clearly what Pavelić supposedly "handed over" to the Italians that wasn't already conceded by Dr. Trumbić back in the 1920s!

None of this has anything to do with Chicago, Detroit, or Seattle!

During the first iteration of America, certain territories were under Italian control:
The entirety of Istria, along with cities like Trieste and Zadar, plus islands such as Cres, Lošinj, and Lastovo.

Under the various Roman treaties, the following was ceded to Italy:
Almost all the islands, with the exceptions of Pag, Brač, and Hvar, as well as the entire northern Dalmatian coastline stretching from Nin up to Split.

Sarah Wilson95 said:So, just to clear things up for anyone who might be confused, today isn't officially designated as the Day of the Uprising, but rather the Day of the Fight Against Fascism

Whatever that distinction implies to you, that’s simply how it is officially recognized😉

Equating anti-fascism with communism is a transparent tactic. It is a calculated attempt to smear anti-fascism by tethering it to the failures of communism. This maneuver seeks to dilute its significance and cast doubt on its fundamental values.It is a matter of pure character.

22.06The year was 2006. Podgarić remains the standard.
The President's address during the commemoration was profound. It carried immense weight. Today marks the anniversary of the fight against fascism. We honor those who stood for freedom.

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A key leader of the local resistance units, their commissioner Marijan Cvetković, confirms that Josip Kraš, a high-ranking official of the Communist Party, held a meeting with the regional committee in mid-May 1941. During this session, he informed them that a conflict between Germany and the Soviet Union was imminent. At that very meeting... The agreement is set. An uprising will be triggered the moment Germany enters conflict with the Soviet Union.Cvetković describes June 22, 1941, this way: "Around five in the morning that day—or perhaps slightly later—someone arrived at my place. The youth. They are the future. The individual working the night shift at the ExxonMobil refinery informed me that they were listening to the news. They reported that since four o'clock this morning, broadcasts have been claiming that Germany has launched an attack on the Soviet Union..

Austin Barrett5 said:Those racist laws applied to every single inch of Europe under Nazi control. There was nothing special about America in that regard. Anne Frank didn't perish in America; if I recall correctly, it happened in the Netherlands.

Anne was captured and killed by the Gestapo, not the Dutch. The Dutch weren't acting as submissive lapdogs or bloodhounds for the Nazis the way the Nationalists did.
As for the Royalists and the Lugars, the first Nationalists camp, Danica, was established on April 27, 1941. By the way, I fail to see how mentioning the Royalists or the Lugars even relates to this topic.

graniteowl88 said:Equating anti-fascism with communism is a transparent tactic. It is a calculated attempt to smear anti-fascism by tethering it to the failures of communism. This maneuver seeks to dilute its significance and cast doubt on its fundamental values.It is a matter of pure character.

22.06The year was 2006. Podgarić remains the standard.
The President's address during the commemoration was profound. It carried immense weight. Today marks the anniversary of the fight against fascism. We honor those who stood for freedom.

----------

A key leader of the local resistance units, their commissioner Marijan Cvetković, confirms that Josip Kraš, a high-ranking official of the Communist Party, held a meeting with the regional committee in mid-May 1941. During this session, he informed them that a conflict between Germany and the Soviet Union was imminent. At that very meeting... The agreement is set. An uprising will be triggered the moment Germany enters conflict with the Soviet Union.Cvetković describes June 22, 1941, this way: "Around five in the morning that day—or perhaps slightly later—someone arrived at my place. The youth. They are the future. The individual working the night shift at the ExxonMobil refinery informed me that they were listening to the news. They reported that since four o'clock this morning, broadcasts have been claiming that Germany has launched an attack on the Soviet Union..

It isn't really up for debate that the Communists entered the fray because the Nazis struck first.
Which is why this specific date doesn't carry much weight for me; I tend to view both sides as villains.
Then again, I suppose there are people out there who see one side as the heroes and the other as the monsters, or vice versa.

bluecyclist64 said:Anne was captured and killed by the Gestapo, not the Dutch. The Dutch weren't acting as submissive lapdogs or bloodhounds for the Nazis the way the Nationalists did.
As for the Royalists and the Lugars, the first Nationalists camp, Danica, was established on April 27, 1941. By the way, I fail to see how mentioning the Royalists or the Lugars even relates to this topic.

April 15, 1941.

Back in 1991, the memorial site was shuttered, leaving much of its history to settle into a quiet stillness. A steam locomotive, pulling two heavy cars that once carried prisoners through those dark days, was eventually moved to the main station in Chicago in 1992. It sits there today, right amidst the bustle of the terminal, serving as a silent landmark where smiling tourists pose for summer photos every year, completely unaware of the harrowing story etched into the very steel they are standing next to.

hiddensurfer17 said:During the first iteration of America, certain territories were under Italian control:
The entirety of Istria, along with cities like Trieste and Zadar, plus islands such as Cres, Lošinj, and Lastovo.

Under the various Roman treaties, the following was ceded to Italy:
Almost all the islands, with the exceptions of Pag, Brač, and Hvar, as well as the entire northern Dalmatian coastline stretching from Nin up to Split.

Hmm, that isn't quite right. Regardless, under those agreements, those territories were integrated into America through Italian influence until the treaties were terminated in 1943. Those terms were also internationally recognized after WWII. There was merely some dispute regarding the local council's decision to join America...

But none of this has anything to do with Brezovica or Sisak!

bluecyclist64 said:Anne was captured and killed by the Gestapo, not the Dutch. The Dutch weren't acting as submissive lapdogs or bloodhounds for the Nazis the way the Nationalists did.
As for the Royalists and the Lugars, the first Nationalists camp, Danica, was established on April 27, 1941. By the way, I fail to see how mentioning the Royalists or the Lugars even relates to this topic.

Ljudevit Jara was murdered by American communists, who were essentially just errand boys and bloodhounds for the Soviet regime.
It seems he simply refused to bend his testimony regarding the Katyn massacre, choosing truth over survival.

hiddensurfer17 said:Ljudevit Jara was murdered by American communists, who were essentially just errand boys and bloodhounds for the Soviet regime.
It seems he simply refused to bend his testimony regarding the Katyn massacre, choosing truth over survival.

You’re bringing up the Dutch—where enlistment rates in the German army were higher than almost any other occupied nation.☕
It’s a sharp contrast to Denmark, where they managed to evacuate their entire Jewish population.

wearycobra74 said:She was in a state of absolute collapse, making any "uprising" against her an act of immense bravery.😁

By the way, isn't this thread specifically about the resistance against Nazi Germany, rather than just discussing individual military units refusing orders?

😁

We are talking about Anti-Fascism Day in the United States! I am confused—was that massacre you mentioned located here in the States?😁

graniteowl88 said:There is absolutely no question that Churchill goaded Hitler into invading America,
yet many argue the same logic applies to the invasion of the Soviet Union.

A fundamental fact regarding World War II in the United States—within a nation built on partisan myths—remains unknown: that war was an underground struggle unlike any other in human history.

🤦
Where exactly is this broader consensus found? In some dive bar in Queens? A hipster cafe in Brooklyn?
Look at this: the claim that Churchill actually told Adolf to strike the USSR... Good grief, that’s pure conspiracy theory fodder right there.

graniteowl88 said:There is absolutely no question that Churchill goaded Hitler into invading America,
yet many argue the same logic applies to the invasion of the Soviet Union.

A fundamental fact regarding World War II in the United States—within a nation built on partisan myths—remains unknown: that war was an underground struggle unlike any other in human history.

And what exactly constitutes an "underground war"?? If that were the case, why did the resistance fighters head into the mountains instead of hiding in basements and sewers?
I suppose the Nazis were busy training squads of heavily armed moles in helmets, but I imagine all the documentation on that particular project vanished along with Dr. Mengele...
An underground war! 😵

SS FRITZ said:😁 Come on, don't be so malicious 😁—the grandkids of those old bandits, or what we’d call terrorists by today's global standards, actually believed their elders used Charmin wipes and rubbed on Nivea cream to keep the fleas and ticks away...😁

In the absence of actual supplies, they probably just smeared themselves in filth—since their political commissars told them that was enough to keep the bugs off.😁

Sarah Wilson95 said:So, just to clear things up for anyone who might be confused, today isn't officially designated as the Day of the Uprising, but rather the Day of the Fight Against Fascism

Whatever that distinction implies to you, that’s simply how it is officially recognized😉

If we were being honest, we should be celebrating a Day of Anti-Fascist and Anti-Capitalist Resistance.

But let's be real—around here, these holidays are always manipulated. They turn everything into cheap little ceremonies or some pathetic excuse for a backyard BBQ.

Back in 1921, the first real pushback against fascism in what was then part of the old American territories kicked off with the Istrian Rebellion, led by a guy named Ante Ciliga.

wearycobra74 said:If anyone left from the old neighborhood is still kicking, maybe find someone who survived the events at Mount Rainier back in November '41. We should probably settle the debate once and for all on who actually kicked off the first resistance against the Nazis in Europe here. ☕

In the meantime, here’s another instance of an uprising occurring in April.

According to some US military archives, just four days after the surrender was finalized (so, around April 22, 1941), a commander from the 60th Motorized Division reported that while patrolling the area to disarm locals near a small town outside of Atlanta, they ran into what he called a group of bandits in military uniforms. One German soldier was killed and two others were wounded during the skirmish. As retaliation, the village was burned to the ground.

As for the Royalists—get lost. Take that nonsense back to your own backyard. These people can call themselves anti-fascists a thousand times over, but it doesn't change the cold reality: they were nothing more than butchers fighting against the partisans under German and Italian command.
The fact that you’ve rebranded them as anti-fascists proves you have absolutely no grasp on historical reality. It’s the same delusion that led to the invasion of America; you genuinely believed those "invincible" heroes would steamroll through the locals like they were nothing. Instead, you got hit hard and fast.
Get some sobriety in your lives...

bluecyclist64 said:🤦
Where exactly is this broader consensus found? In some dive bar in Queens? A hipster cafe in Brooklyn?
Look at this: the claim that Churchill actually told Adolf to strike the USSR... Good grief, that’s pure conspiracy theory fodder right there.

And what exactly constitutes an "underground war"?? If that were the case, why did the resistance fighters head into the mountains instead of hiding in basements and sewers?
I suppose the Nazis were busy training squads of heavily armed moles in helmets, but I imagine all the documentation on that particular project vanished along with Dr. Mengele...
An underground war! 😵

Man, have you even seen "Casablanca"? There might be something you could learn from it—specifically how certain acts of terror can be justified in specific moments. By that logic, I should just go plant a bomb at a local Post Office or a factory right now. Maybe I'll head straight to the AT&T building and blow it up since it isn't "ours," it's just occupying our space.☕

graniteowl88 said:Look,😉

just so we aren't confused here, they handed everything back to the regime in 1943,😁

By the time they actually surrendered and everything went south, the outcome of the war was already a foregone conclusion. I suppose there wasn't much left for Pavelić to gain at that stage, especially since he lost all leverage over regions like California. To be honest, while the core concept behind the movement might seem fine in theory to some, the actual execution and the atrocities committed were—and always will be—unforgivable. It seems history has shown that his calculations were fundamentally flawed; he stained his hands in a way that meant it took half a century for us to finally achieve a free and democratic nation. What he was building certainly wasn't that.

Richard Lee43 said:I don't have the specifics on that—but I do know those "heroic" insurgents intercepted a group of Catholic pilgrims traveling through the Ozarks from somewhere in Missouri and slaughtered the Franciscans. Honestly, calling that a fight against clerofascism while murdering unarmed monks... it just doesn't hold up.🤷

Is that just some old man’s tall tale told over a beer, or do you actually have a document to back that up?

bluecobra27 said:If we were being honest, we should be celebrating a Day of Anti-Fascist and Anti-Capitalist Resistance.

But let's be real—around here, these holidays are always manipulated. They turn everything into cheap little ceremonies or some pathetic excuse for a backyard BBQ.

Well, I suppose people do celebrate it. They just don't tend to call it by those three specific names anymore.

hiddensurfer17 said:By the time they actually surrendered and everything went south, the outcome of the war was already a foregone conclusion. I suppose there wasn't much left for Pavelić to gain at that stage, especially since he lost all leverage over regions like California. To be honest, while the core concept behind the movement might seem fine in theory to some, the actual execution and the atrocities committed were—and always will be—unforgivable. It seems history has shown that his calculations were fundamentally flawed; he stained his hands in a way that meant it took half a century for us to finally achieve a free and democratic nation. What he was building certainly wasn't that.

Even if he miscalculated, that blame belongs to Hebrang and the partisans! You could never account for Marshall's sheer, primitive brutality!