Let's talk about capitalism...

Rachel Ruiz39 said:How am I supposed to stay true to myself when everyone else is calling the shots and rigging the game!!??
And how exactly am I meant to just chuck my computer out the window when, unfortunately, this machine is literally my livelihood!?
Honestly, I’d much rather be out working some farm somewhere...
If you look at the math, a human life is maybe 50 years if you count from age 22 or 24—you know, after all the messing around is done—and then it's just backbreaking labor until you drop. Every single day boils down to:
-commuting to work -grinding away with frustrated assholes -trudging home on the pavement -eating -shitting -shoving your junk into some fleshy hole
-sleeping

But where in all this mess is the spiritual side? Like, seriously, has anyone actually stopped to ask themselves why we’re even living on this godforsaken planet, just to hoard material crap before we kick the bucket?? Where is the fucking point in any of this??

No joke, man, it sounds like you're describing some kind of imaginary utopia. I get where you're coming from, though; we're both in the software game😎 I spend my entire day staring at a screen, but honestly, I find it pretty damn fun, and even when I'm working like a dog, those are actually some of my best moments. It's not masochism, really—there’s just this incredible feeling you get when you actually build something, especially if you're getting paid well and people actually respect what you do. Nothing beats that.

To me, capitalism is actually kind of wild. I sit there programming things (which is basically just playing around) in a nice, air-conditioned office with a view of the California Coast, and in exchange, my wife, the kids, and I get a house, a car, food, vacations, clothes, and everything else we need. Calling it "wonderful" feels like an understatement. Plus, nobody is stopping me from being a devout Catholic, a Muslim, or a Hare Krishna, or just spending my days drinking beer and watching whatever the hell I want. I have total freedom.

Is it always perfect? Of course not. Companies go under, or sometimes the work just dries up and the money stops flowing, and you have to move on to the next thing. But like they say out west, sometimes a kick in the ass is just the push you need to move forward😁 and there's a lot of truth in that

Do I hate how commercialized everything has become? Yeah, I do. But what's the issue? You don't have to watch TV, you don't have to listen to the radio, you don't have to engage with any of it. Just read some Shakespeare... A lot of people trash capitalism because they claim it makes people shallow and stupid with garbage shows like Big Brother. But that's just not true; it only makes people stupid if they don't have anything better to do than watch that trash. In a place like Sweden, there isn't much of an audience for that mindless stuff, so their shows might be about things like "How to open and run your own restaurant," which is way more interesting, even if most Americans aren't interested in that right now.

Basically, socialism was a great setup for people who just wanted to be left alone, but it was absolute hell for the high-energy types hungry for cash, career growth, and knowledge... They had to jump through endless hoops just to burn off their energy. Capitalism is the exact opposite of that..

That is a fair point you made there.

Capitalism essentially boils down to choice. You get to decide which products and services you want to support, though I suppose the flip side is that employers also get to decide when they want to hire you.

Ronald Moore8 said:That’s a fair point.

Capitalism is essentially a system of choice. You select your products and services, just as employers select their workforce when they see fit.

And there is quite a lot to choose from: where you work, how many hours you put in, what career path you pursue, whether you intend to hire others or remain an employee...

Rachel Ruiz39 said:I'm not even trying to link this to spirituality, I'm just asking WHAT SPIRITUALITY EVEN IS

This whole forum is a mess... just a bunch of frustrated losers with nothing better to do than pick fights over topics they don't even understand, just like you...

Honestly, I'm with you. I wonder who the actually frustrated one is here...

Anyway, I'm loving life under capitalism.

About 10 years ago, I started from nothing, and now I'm doing pretty well...
- bought an apartment (all cash)
- got a solid job (plus a side hustle)
- making good money playing the stock market
- started a family
- getting into real estate

In another 10 years, I'll be a total mogul!!

There's no way I could have pulled any of that off starting from zero under socialism... definitely not...

I love this game!

Benjamin Rodriguez2 said:To put it simply, socialism was a dream for people who just wanted to sit tight and do nothing, but an absolute nightmare for those high-energy types hungry for profit, career growth, and new skills... They basically had to find creative loopholes just to channel their drive into something useful. Capitalism works in the exact opposite way..

That is such a brilliant way to frame it! 👍

Under capitalism, you can say whatever you want, provided you follow the rules
under socialism, you can do whatever you want, provided you say what they tell you to

I think there's an old saying for this:

They can't pay me peanuts if I don't work for peanuts.

Basically a perfect summary of how things used to run under communism... 😁

Rachel Ruiz39 said:Oh, man, that sounds awesome... must be nice to have things running smoothly while being your own boss...
I guess you're in the trading business then?

Nah. Unless they’re selling consulting services, I wouldn't really call that trading.

Arthur Anderson49 said:Not quite. Unless they’re peddling consulting services, you aren't looking at actual trade.

Knowledge is undoubtedly the most valuable commodity on the market right now. If we look back, iron and coal drove the 19th century, electrical engineering fueled the 20th, and IT dominated the turn of the millennium. Today, the real business is selling expertise.

Keep pushing in that direction.

Some people just live to work 🙂

Then you’ve got those types who can't even handle three days off on vacation without starting to hallucinate new projects they should be tackling 🙂

On the flip side, there are people who dive into something for a month, grind it out, actually finish it, and feel that genuine sense of accomplishment when it's done... which is great, really...

But looking at this thread, I see some folks who clearly think sex is way more important than being productive 🤣

I'm dying to know though—what kind of system is he actually proposing here?? Are we all just supposed to go out and mow the lawn together?

Bradley Phillips35 said:Some people actually enjoy working 🙂

There are certain types of people who can't even handle three days off without starting to manufacture new projects just to stay busy. 🙂

That describes me perfectly. Personally, I find it impossible to wrap my head around those folks who would spend their entire vacation just lying around doing nothing. 🙂

goldengull3 said:That’s me. Honestly, I can't wrap my head around people who just spend their entire vacation rotting on the couch. 🙂

It's tough living with people like that.😁

goldengull3 said:That’s me. Honestly, I can’t wrap my head around people who just spend their entire vacation lying around doing nothing. 🙂

As for me—I just don't get the appeal of being stuck working through it all.🙄 Better to make some extra cash than to end up broke and stressed.🧐 😬

Oh yeah, excellent, just wonderful... You guys who defend capitalism based on the idea that it provides "choice" must be pretty well-educated and well-off yourselves. But what about the people who didn't get lucky like you did? What about those born in developing regions where social mobility isn't even a thing, making it impossible to access the same education or living standards we take for granted? Do they really have "choices" too? Not really. They’re forced to accept pennies just to manufacture everything we use. Just take a look at your own stuff—from your laptop to your shoes... "Made in [insert some third-world country here]." Of course, it's easy to call them losers for working for such low wages, but hey, why don't they just quit the one company in their tiny town that's actually willing to hire them? It's not like there are a million other people in the exact same boat looking for work. Or better yet... why doesn't some guy making $1 a day just go out and start his own corporation? Become the next Nike, right? 👍

Charles Vaughn50 said:Oh sure, "excellent, excellent"... you people defending capitalism just because it offers a few choices—I'm sure you're all highly educated and well-paid... but what about those folks who didn't get lucky like us? People born in developing regions where social structures don't give them the same shot at life—education, living standards, the whole nine yards? Do they get to choose, too? No. They have to accept peanuts just so we can have our stuff... just look at everything you own... from your laptop to your shoes... "Made in [insert some third-world country here]"... Of course, it's just "losers" who don't want to work, right? So they take low wages... but hey, why not? They can just quit the only company willing to hire them in a town overflowing with millions of people in the exact same situation... Or better yet... why doesn't some guy working for $1 a day just start his own business? A new Nike, man... 👍

You don't even need to look in third-world countries for that; just head out to the rural Midwest, where there's a massive population of people with zero options other than taking whatever low-paying job comes their way.
It might not be quite slavery or feudalism, but capitalism definitely has its elite circles—membership in which grants immense privilege, while everyone else is essentially oppressed and disenfranchised by the mere fact of their birth.

Look, it’s probably a good thing you guys finally realized the world isn't exactly fair. Injustice has been around since forever—it's a constant—and no amount of whining or endless complaining is going to shift that reality. Human nature is just wired this way; it's baked in. Honestly, I've always found it a bit strange when people spend all their energy playing the victim or trying to rationalize why things aren't fair. If you look closely, most of them are just looking for an excuse to justify their own failures.

Charles Vaughn50 said:Oh yeah, "excellent, excellent"... you guys defending capitalism just because it offers a few choices—I bet you're all super well-educated and landed some cushy jobs, right? But what about the folks who didn't get as lucky as us? You know, the ones born in developing parts of the world where social opportunities don't even let them touch what we have in terms of education or living standards? Do they get to "choose" too? Hell no! They’re stuck accepting peanuts just so they can manufacture stuff for us. Just take a look at everything you own... from your laptop to your sneakers... "Made in [insert some third-world country here]." And of course, according to the logic, it's just because those losers are too lazy to work for better pay... as if! Like, hey, why don't they just quit the one company in their tiny town that actually wants to hire them? Or better yet... why doesn't some guy working for $1 a day just go out and start his own Nike? Yeah, right... 👍

Look, you're totally entitled to your opinion, but let's be real: nature isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Shit happens. Honestly, there isn't a single major system out there that fixes that fundamental unfairness any better than capitalism does.

Systems that look perfectly fair on paper haven't exactly turned out to be successful, and they certainly haven't been much more "just." The reality is that capitalism is the most resilient system we've got, and once it reaches a developed stage, it actually provides a ton of opportunities even for the people who aren't running the show, but just working within it.

Once capitalism hits a certain level of maturity, it becomes pretty democratic in how it spreads prosperity. Plus, it's incredibly flexible; you can tweak it to fit whatever goals you have. That's why the way capitalism works in Chile is worlds apart from the US model, which is totally different from the way things run in Sweden—yet all three of them work great.

And those massive problems we see in developing nations? Those are usually the result of a broken system, leftover feudalism, and straight-up corruption rather than capitalism itself. In places where capitalism actually follows the rules—like in Tunis or Jordan—things aren't nearly as bad for the average person.

Charles Vaughn50 said:Oh sure, excellent, just excellent... you people who champion capitalism simply because it offers a handful of choices must be incredibly well-educated and high on the corporate ladder... but what about those folks who weren't quite as lucky as you (us) and happened to be born in less developed parts of the world where social structures don't exactly grant them the same opportunities we enjoy (in terms of education, living standards, etc.)? I suppose they get to make choices too, right?

From what I've been able to gather, those individuals have actually managed to thrive best under entirely new circumstances.
If someone made a guarantee, then a guarantee was made.😉 Where exactly is the issue?

And for instance, goldengull3 isn't from Chicago.🙂

I honestly feel like we should just scrap the whole monetary system entirely and go back to a barter economy. I was watching this documentary the other day, and they mentioned how a sculptor who carved a statue of the Holy Trinity was actually paid in the equivalent value of 200 eggs. It really makes you think about how much more grounded things used to be. We need to find our way back to living in harmony with nature; people ought to leave these crowded cities behind and move out to rural homesteads where they can focus on farming and just lead some kind of peaceful, normal life. This modern way of existing—this relentless cycle of capitalism and pure greed being forced upon us—really feels like the greatest tragedy ever visited upon the human race in all of history.

beebop said:We really ought to scrap the whole monetary system and just go back to bartering goods. I was watching this documentary the other day where they mentioned a sculptor who carved a statue of the Holy Trinity, and his payment ended up being worth about 200 eggs! We need to reconnect with nature. People should honestly just move out of these crowded cities and settle on farms where they can focus on agriculture and live a peaceful, simple life. This modern way of living—driven by nothing but capitalism and pure greed—is easily the greatest tragedy ever to strike the human race.

🤔 But wait, how exactly would you afford to buy a massive ranch to start your farming life and find that peace and quiet? With eggs?