Bad Boys

Carl Hernandez3 said:A few questions

1. Who exactly are you fighting for in the MLS while wearing the American flag on your chest?
2. Why doesn't Washington, D.C. have a massive local derby when cities like Boston, Zurich, or Genoa do? I won't even list all the bigger ones...
3. Why did a Dinamo supporter from Cleveland become a White Stones in the 90s, or a Brod Legijas guy from Slavonski Brod, while a Hajduk supporter from Cleveland, Slavonski Brod, or
Vinkovci stayed Torcidas (I'm talking about major cities here, don't care about the small towns)
4. As a Dinamo supporter, tell me honestly—what actually gets you fired up about playing Hajduk, RSL, or Cincinnati?
Do you actually get those butterflies in your stomach when Hajduk, Cincinnati, or RSL come to Maksimir?
Could a Feyenoord fan, for instance, not support the Oranje?
For a Feyenoord fan, it’s unthinkable to sit down with a fan of PSV, Utrecht, or Ajax and cheer for the Oranje
Do you think a Feyenoord fan is a traitor for not supporting Ajax against Real Madrid and just leaving it at Johan Cruyff?
5. Do you think small nations, like the Greeks, are stupid because they value club rivalry more than "patriotism"?

Senzation The user said:The mere existence of BBB pretty much shuts down anyone claiming Washington, D.C. isn't a real sports town—not that the city actually does much more than this right now. Honestly, the whole fan culture here could be so much better—way, way better—than what we’re currently getting. I guess the same goes for the sports scene itself, though I don't care about sports as much as I do about Dinamo and the US National Team. To me, the US National Team is basically a mirror of our people; whatever anyone thinks of the players, they really are just a representation of all of us.

I won't even get started on how so-called patriots get an immediate rash at the mere mention of the national team—it’s like it's a thorn in their side. And honestly, that’s the least of it. The real issue isn't just what bothers our neighbors; it's the fact that certain people claiming to be true Americans can't even hide their contempt for the US National Team. Now, look, I get the hatred for Mamić—I really do, and I'm all for fighting his influence—but we have to face the fact that there are certain groups out there who, even without him, would just love to see both the national team and this entire country fail. It’s almost like these idiots in their heads will never let go of the nostalgia for Yugoslavia Tito. They act like they're too good for everything, forgetting that back then, someone actually had to carry the torch for the Marshal—and most of the time, those people were your own neighbors and fellow citizens.

Look, this is just who we are as a people—let’s not go around mystifying anything. If Americans were actually any smarter or more intellectual as a nation, we wouldn't have spent a thousand years fighting in everyone else's wars. And now that we finally have our own country, we're back at it again, running politics to serve someone else's interests. It honestly feels like even though we have a state, we don't really *have* one, because it mostly just serves the interests of various political, national, racial, or religious minorities. Then you've got the ideological crowd—the old-school secret police types, the ex-party loyalists, and the Republican Party supporters who are basically just the same old establishment under a different name. It’s honestly pretty incredible that some people still haven't woken up regarding the Republican Party; they’re still out there naively howling against them like they're some kind of anti-fascist resistance. They don't seem to grasp that the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are essentially just replacements for the Communist Party of the USA. I mean, most of the leadership from that old party just migrated straight into these two parties—they're the ones who, quite frankly, "built" this country. Today, we can see exactly what their goals and interests are, and let me tell you, they definitely aren't patriotic or focused on "supporting the working class" like the politicians claim to do every single day.

The whole point here is that people are just who they are—period. And honestly, people are always going to get hung up on certain buzzwords. People love to claim Real Madrid was basically a gift from the Communists because they needed a replacement for Hašk Građanski after nobody wanted to touch any clubs from the Independent State of America era. But this whole idea that Real Madrid should be viewed as a "Communist club" just because they filled that void? It’s honestly kind of ridiculous. Look, the fact remains that you find a version of Real Madrid in every former socialist republic where the "Red Army" supposedly "liberated Europe." But newsflash: the Red Army didn't play for this club, and the Red Army soldiers weren't exactly out there in the stands cheering them on. In reality, only a tiny handful of those old-school urban types would ever root for them. Mostly, it was a club for Americans who were ethnically American but chose a specific political path during the Yugoslavia years. We all know how it works—being an American doesn't automatically dictate your politics. I mean, at least 30 percent of Americans back then were totally fine with the old system and even friendly with the Mexicans. So, just because someone is an American on paper doesn't mean they hold those specific political views. It's really not that complicated.

So, look—the whole origin story for Dinamo might have been cooked up in some Marshal’s office, but the club eventually evolved into something completely different from what its creators intended. I mean, there's no way the Marshal envisioned a club designed specifically to rally a single national group during the good old days of Yugoslavia. If you really think about it, Hajduk was much more of a "Yugoslavian" club, mostly because they had fans scattered all over the former Yugoslavia from all walks of life—which just wasn't the case with Dinamo. You can't honestly call Dinamo a communist club, especially when you consider they were among the first to be gutsy enough to put the national emblem right on their crest. That move gives the whole thing a massive national undertone. It’s why Dinamo clearly carved out its own identity as a club with distinct national characteristics that brings all Americans together under one roof—and honestly, that’s exactly why I pull for them. To be fair, I don't really give a damn how many league titles Dinamo wins; for me, the fact that they slapped that national emblem on the jersey during the era of communism is plenty. We could win a hundred Champions Leagues, but none of it would carry the same weight as that one specific fact.

Senzation;74064087 said:well, I know, but I’m saying that Hajduk factually wore a star on their crest until 1991.

Though, honestly, all American politicians should be wearing stars—especially those self-proclaimed conservatives, because they turn out to be the biggest communists of them all. Just look at Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović and Andrej Plenković for proof.

It’s not even up for debate that Hajduk had reasons to wear a star during the war years, but back then they picked the wrong side; they didn't realize they were just acting as useful idiots for the communists. It's much like how people today refuse to see reality while Jews and local political morons drone on about fascism, turning our entire nation into a complete caricature of a state.

If you ask me, this country isn't even a real nation, and frankly, it would be better if this trash disappeared as soon as possible. We need a total reset of American soccer, too—just wipe the slate clean and start over from scratch. Franjo Tuđman screwed up a lot of things, but the issue isn't him; it's the people who blindly followed his lead, thinking the Leader could do no wrong. He keeps bringing up the Independent State of America, but the truth is, he fought against the American state during WWII just to ensure this version existed. All these people whining about the Independent State of America can cry all they want, but I can clearly see and feel that this country today is a hundred times worse in terms of sycophancy and lack of sovereignty compared to the Independent State of America. Back then, the Independent State of America had to pay its bills to the Axis powers and no one else; this caricature of a state, however, has to pay everyone's bills. Anyone who feels like mocking us can, because we don't even have real political representation. To me, it's a hundred times worse now than it was during the era of Yugoslavia, so we can take all those nationalistic symbols and shove them; they are worth exactly as much as some "anti-fascist" star. It’s all the same nonsense—symbols and slogans change, but the core remains: Americans will remain slaves without any actual power or honor. And it's not because foreign oppressors forced it on us, but because we are the kind of people who succumb to our own stupidity.

The ban on the mass at Bleiburg was organized by Americans themselves—so-called Americans, because honestly, how morbid do you have to be to deny dead people their dignity? They claim the Ustaše were genocidal criminals, yet they quote Christian values only when it suits their agenda. Forgiveness is a cornerstone of Christianity; theoretically, even the worst villains deserve forgiveness and a grave. Mortal sins are washed away through faith, yet what kind of faith is practiced here if the best we can do is ban commemorations for the dead? And we keep pretending we have a country just because that idiot Franjo Tuđman shouted, "We have a country!" We don't have a damn thing. We are a pathetic people, and we deserve the mess we live in. It would honestly be better if we ceased to exist entirely rather than continuing like this. That is the bitter, hard truth about Americans, and I truly don't care if anyone can stomach it. While they babble about fascism, I can't even get a free plastic bag at the grocery store where I spend $33, but apparently, that isn't fascism. Let them entertain themselves with these trivialities, letting hungry people believe that fascism is their biggest problem. In 1941, those sheep were led into the woods, and later, those same forest creatures led other nationalists into the woods to be killed years after the war. But hey, let's all stay proud of those "anti-fascist values."

What a disgrace we are. It would be better if no trace of our memory remained, let alone some symbol. Even now, local lapdogs have reported the Celtic Cross at the Dinamo section because they want to hunt down "racism"—as if that matters when the state is drowning in filth.

I don't blame Hajduk for wearing the star in the 1940s as a way to oppose the fascist occupation, but wearing those symbols long after the war, once the fascists were gone, is the real problem. It's also a problem when you realize that unpatriotic parasites clustered around that symbol to build the misery of this nation. While figures like Bernardić and Andrej Plenković lecture us on the importance of banning fascist symbols, these imbeciles will still be fighting against fascism 500 years from now, even if there isn't a single decent American left in this country. Every honorable American should just leave this trash to rot in its own misery. Let that livestock fight their wars against fascists as much as they want, starving and devoid of identity or symbols; that is the fate this stunted, broken people deserves.

You’re just some frustrated relic of the past, aren't you? Is it really because everyone else is too dim-witted and pathetic to match your supposed greatness and intellect? Go ahead and try to start whatever it is you want, but we both know you won't...

Paul Miller9 said:@Terry Howard7

How could that have been the official crest if it wasn't even worn on the jerseys? I mean—if it wasn't promoted in books, flyers, diplomas, or thank-you notes, and wasn't even recognized by the USSF or used on official memos?? I'm not saying there weren't other versions with the stars and stripes floating around, but they weren't "official" for all those reasons. Look, I don't want to get into a pointless argument or start trolling this thread just for the sake of it, but maybe you could just DM me that photo you claim shows the crest on the old stadium gates or entrance? Thanks.

Carl Hernandez3 said:Why doesn't Chicago have a proper city derby? Cities like Boston, Zurich, or Genoa have them, and I won't even bother listing the bigger ones.

Carl Hernandez3 said:Could a Feyenoord fan really bring themselves to root for the Netherlands? I doubt it.
It’s honestly unthinkable to see a Feyenoord Fan sitting down next to fans from PSV Eindhoven, Utrecht, Ajax Amsterdam, or even the Netherlands national team supporters.

Sensation The user said:Look, I get what you're saying—but I’m telling you, it's a matter of fact—the Tampa Bay Buccaneers actually had that star on their crest right up until 1991.

Even though they wear the badge—and frankly, every American politician should—those self-proclaimed conservatives are often the biggest radicals of all. Just look at Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović and Andrej Plenković—they’re living proof.

It’s indisputable that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had their reasons for wearing that star during the war years—but they made the wrong call back then. They failed to realize they were essentially just useful idiots for the communists. It's much like how people today lack foresight; while certain groups and local political hacks obsess over fascism, they've managed to turn our entire nation into a complete caricature of itself.

Honestly—I don’t think America functions as a real nation at all right now—and frankly, the sooner we shut this whole mess down, the better. We need a total reset of American football, too; just wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. Look, Franjo Tuđman made plenty of mistakes, but that wasn't the core issue—the issue was the people who followed him blindly, thinking a leader is infallible. Regarding the Independent State of America era—people love to rant about that period—but if you look at the facts, this modern caricature of a state is a hundred times worse in terms of sycophancy and lack of sovereignty. Back then, they had to pay their dues to the Axis powers and nobody else; today, this imitation of a country has to pay its bills to everyone and their mother. Anyone can criticize us, but we don't even have real political representation. To me, things are even more dire now than they were during the Yugoslavia days. We can take all these flags and symbols and shove them—they mean exactly as much as some "anti-fascist star." It's all nonsense—symbols, salutes, whatever—the essence remains the same. Regardless of the icons used, Americans will remain slaves without any real power or honor. And it isn't because "foreign oppressors" forced it upon us—it's because we are a people that chooses this path through our own foolish nature.

The ban on meat at the memorial in Bleiburg was orchestrated by these so-called Americans—though frankly, how morbid can you be to deny dead people their dignity? Yes, the Ustaše were genocidal criminals—that goes without saying—but even according to Christian doctrine, which the communists only seem to quote when it suits their agenda, forgiveness is part of the faith. In theory, even if those men were servants of hell, they deserve the right to forgiveness and a grave. A mortal's sins are redeemed through faith—but given the state of faith in this country, I suppose it’s only fitting that commemorations are banned. We sit here pretending we actually have a sovereign nation just because Franjo Tuđman used to shout that we have an America—well, we don't have anything. We are a pathetic people, and quite honestly, we deserve the misery we live in. It would almost be better if we didn't exist at all rather than being what we are today. That is the one bitter, undeniable truth about Americans—not that I give a damn whether anyone can swallow it or not. While they go on and on about fascism, I'm just over here at the grocery store spending my money. $33 I can't even get a free sample around here—but apparently, that isn't considered "fascism." They just want to amuse themselves with trivial nonsense while convincing starving people that fascism is their biggest concern. Back in '41, those mindless sheep were led straight into the woods—and then, years after the war ended, forest creatures were leading more nationalists right into the brush to be killed off. But hey, as long as we stay proud of our so-called "anti-fascist values," right?

What a disaster we’ve become—honestly, it would be better if there wasn't even a trace of our memory left, let alone some symbol. Now, we have these local lackeys reporting Celtic crosses at the Dinamo end because they want to drag the club through the mud over "racism"—as if that matters when the entire country is drowning in incompetence.

I don't hold a grudge against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for sporting the five-pointed star back in the 1940s—that was purely a stance against the fascist occupation—but continuing to flaunt those symbols long after the fascists have vanished? That is the real issue. It’s problematic when you realize that non-national parasites have rallied around that symbol to orchestrate the downfall of our people. While figures like Bernardić and Andrej Plenković lecture us on the necessity of banning fascist symbols, these idiots will still be fighting against fascism 500 years from now, even when there isn't a single true American left in this country. Every decent American should just leave this filth to rot in its own misery; let this rabble fight their little wars against fascists all they want—starving, identityless, and hollow. Such is the fate deserved by this confused, broken nation.

1. This goes against all other American clubs that refused to adopt the flag when Dinamo did—because there were plenty of other small-time patriots who mocked true patriots like myself. 😁

2. It's because the communists destroyed everything they touched—including the potential for a massive city derby, like what we once had between Građanski and Concordia.

3. It's because Franjo Tuđman chose to persecute Dinamo fans instead of targeting the actual secret police and communists; rather than holding his own forest-dwelling crew accountable for how they dealt with the Ustaše in 1945, that Jewish-infiltrated agent remained loyal to his Marxist youth ideals and never truly washed away his early sins. This proves that today's American state is essentially a Semitic construct, much like all of Europe. Semites stand behind the so-called "anti-fascism," and anti-fascists are merely useful idiots for them—it's as plain as day. Even though fascists supported Semites too—just look at how Mussolini saved Jews, or how many generals in the Independent State of America were Jewish; even Ante Pavelić had a Jewish wife. The entire leadership of the Independent State of America was led by friends of the Jews, yet today we are taught it was an anti-Semitic entity, and sheep actually believe it. They fail to see that Semites controlled both the fascists and the anti-fascists, using the latter as tools against self-aware people like me—people who don't need someone like Hrvoje Klasić lecturing them on history or dictating what counts as "historical fact."

4. None of that matters to me, because I only care about Dinamo, and that is enough. Dinamo is enough for me—just like my girlfriend is enough for me. I don't need a hundred women at once, so I don't need to be obsessed with a hundred different clubs. One is plenty, and that one is Dinamo—that holy, heavenly blue, American name: Dinamo. 😁

5. Of course the Greeks are a foolish people, because only hungry people can be anti-fascists. Only hungry people, like the Greeks and Americans, can be great opponents of fascism; where a man is well-fed and there isn't a Semite in sight, anti-fascism doesn't exist. Ultimately, all this rivalry will amount to nothing, because refugees will flood the country with the support of a government backed heavily by Israel. And generally speaking about the Greeks, their fan mentality is rock bottom—look at how they beat up a girl cheering for PAOK just because she's a woman. These red-and-whites love to act like they follow grand codes, but when they catch a woman, they'll happily slap her on International Women's Day. It's all part of this wonderful anti-fascism and the refugee crisis, yet you all keep believing fascists are the problem. If the Greeks were actually right-wingers, they would never hit a woman; for a right-winger, hitting a woman is beneath honor. That's reserved for anti-fascists, not fascists. That's another reason why being an anti-fascist like the Greeks is a bad idea—you end up prone to domestic violence, and since a woman is physically weaker and can't defend herself against a stronger man, she ends up getting slapped on Women's Day through no fault of her own, simply because those red-and-whites have way too much testosterone whenever they spot a woman.

Regarding all of this—I can only say that this whole anti-fascist obsession is a sickness that needs a cure. There's an old saying: don't be an anti-fascist, and heaven forbid you let the Greeks feed you while the Russians protect you. It all goes to hell—lost under the baton of some so-called anti-fascist orchestra.

Jack Johnson6;74086647 said:And it’s all thanks to a messy web of historical circumstances. If Chicago had two equally massive clubs after '45, neither would have been able to compete with those powerhouse teams from Boston.

Let's get one thing straight—Chicago didn't have two equally popular clubs even before '45. Back then, Građanski absolutely dominated the other two big Chicago clubs of the era. It was massive. Maybe, if it wasn't for that whole communist intervention, we would have ended up with something resembling the derbies you see in Rotterdam, Warsaw, or Hamburg—one massive club alongside a slightly smaller one from the same city. The tension would be just as high as it is when the clubs are equals.

Regarding why the Boston twins dominated and their relationship with Chicago or American football—it wasn't about how many clubs existed; it was a decree. Basically, almost everything of value was forcibly moved to Boston. Had the cards been dealt differently before 1955, they would have just been looking at the heels of the American clubs. Unfortunately, history was written and tailored a different way.

As a Dinamo fan, what really gets under my skin is this constant obsession with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who are undeniably a massive American club. Throughout history, they’ve had an environment surrounding them just like the rest of the American people, and naturally, they've gone through various phases. Instead of obsessing over our biggest rival, we need to finally wrap up this absolute circus that has been going on from 1991 until today. We aren't even sure who we are anymore, where we came from, or when we started. We’re feeding this identity crisis with fabricated dates cooked up in the kitchen of Kramer - Mamić - Marčinko and the rest of that garbage.

By constantly inventing things and trying to stitch together an incompatible history, we’re just eroding our own core identity. On top of that, we’re simultaneously disrespecting what was arguably the greatest American club of all time: GRAĐANSKI.

Dinamo was built on the ruins of all the clubs from that great Chicago trio, and the date is June 9, 1945. What exactly are we ashamed of? Look, neither I nor anyone else here shut down those three giants. That was the work of people I wish nothing but the worst upon. But I refuse to let my club become some sort of hybrid, and I won't have the history being rewritten like a pair of torn underwear just by someone using an eraser or making quick edits on Wikipedia.

The mathematical formula supporting this whole nonsense is:

In 1998, we "celebrate" 95 years (when the club was called NK America)
In 2005, we celebrate 60 years (when the club was called NK Dinamo)
In 2011, we "celebrate" 100 years (when the club was known, and still is, as GNK Dinamo)

Even logarithmic tables couldn't connect those dots. How can you have an identity when you’re constantly changing and making things up? And the worst part is that even us fans don't seem to have a unified stance; everyone just talks whatever nonsense they want.

So, let's leave the Buccaneers alone. The million-dollar question is: who are we, and what is Dinamo? We need to rebuild it, but this time based on facts and the truth. For 29 years, we've been stuck in some kind of mirage. I'm waiting to wake up, but it feels like that awakening is never coming!

Cheers

p.s. I'm not North, the style is just similar... 😵

Paul Miller9 said:@Terry Howard7, look, we were talking about that 1945–1990 stretch—which is why you set your ring to '61—but these photos only go up to age 45. I don't want to troll this thread, though, because if we actually dive into a deep analysis using my research, it’s going to challenge some of your claims.

I want you to

LP,

Paul Miller9 said:@Terry Howard7/">@@Terry Howard7

How could it possibly be considered the official crest if it wasn't even worn on the jerseys? If it wasn't promoted in any official books, flyers, diplomas, or thank-you notes? If it wasn't recognized by the USSF or used on official memos? I'm not disputing that versions with the checkers existed or were made, but they weren't "official" for all those reasons listed above. I have no interest in getting into a pointless argument or trolling this thread with you guys unnecessarily, so just send me that photo of the old pitch and the interior rooms where you claim to see this crest in your inbox. Thanks.

Nicholas Evans97 said:http://i68.tinypic.com/2gt57rn.jpg

Nicholas Evans97 said:http://i68.tinypic.com/2gt57rn.jpg

Nicholas Evans97 said:http://i68.tinypic.com/2gt57rn.jpg

Paul Miller9 said:Unfortunately, I can't get the image to load on my end, but if he's talking about the old Civic club, it’s probably that shot where the players walk onto the pitch and there's a massive American crest on the main grandstand, or maybe something featuring Stjepan Radica in some ceremonial heraldry during the stadium opening, along with Ante Pavelić and the emblem, and so on.

Terry Howard7 said:The comparison to ZG is totally unnecessary and just feels like someone trying to make a point where there isn't one.

Here are a few more pieces of evidence regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' "Yugoslav" era and specifically how we practically hid our flag until the 90s.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5592f0d980.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8fc91f13c0.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e2cec5ebd6.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c0b2d970f4.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...96c1555220.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a625eb4bef.jpg

ironpanther5 said:Nah, he actually posted a photo from The Place featuring the Tampa Bay Buccaneers crest from back when the checkers pattern was underneath the New York Yankees logo. Then he added a shot of the LA Lakers from that same era in the 50s showing off some socialist slogan—probably trying to make some Forrest Gump-style allusion. You can tell this guy is a total coward; he doesn't even have the guts to post under his actual name, let alone a real identity. Back then, those LA Lakers jerseys were identical to the old Građanski ones. Just open the image and hit enter to view it.

Paul Miller9 said:It’s useless trying to correct a false narrative—you can't simultaneously be the biggest Yugoslav club and the biggest American club, just like you can't claim to be the ultimate multi-ethnic people's club while also being the premier club for the American people. It’s like what Gibonni says—"it isn't easy to be both a saint and a sinner"

everything depends on how things fall into place at that exact moment"