Jealousy

brightnomad0 said:Envy is essentially a darker, more toxic version of jealousy.
Someone driven by envy might secretly resent the success of those they envy, or perhaps they even hope to see that person stumble.
At times, an envious person can't quite mask their true feelings, which might lead them to act openly against someone else....
Even if jealousy doesn't dictate your entire life, I suppose we all deal with it to some extent—whether it's managing our own feelings or navigating the resentment others feel toward us. We’re all susceptible to it, but I think it’s something we can learn to manage and eventually overcome……

Envy is that sense of discontent or disapproval triggered by seeing what others have achieved, owned, or simply who they are....
An envious person craves what belongs to someone else, often feeling as though they don't deserve what they currently possess.
In the struggle to pull themselves up to the level of those they envy, an envious person tends to suffer a moral decline, sacrificing their integrity in the process. Even if they actually succeed, I suspect any gain is only temporary.

Ultimately, envy is just an expression of HATRED....
The root of this feeling lies in Selfishness Inc.
To cope, an envious person might try to tear down those they envy by using unfair criticism or questioning their competence and motives.

It also makes people prone to being UNRELIABLE and DISTRUSTFUL toward their rivals.

An envious individual can be POSSESSIVE, excessively suspicious, and overly demanding regarding rules and expectations.

And at the end of the day, true LOVE IS NOT JEALOUS....

Have you ever dealt with someone who tried to undermine you out of pure envy? Or perhaps, can you recognize those jealous impulses within yourself?.....?????
Do you find yourself leaning toward jealousy at times, and if so, why... or do you stay clear of it entirely?.....?????

This thread is relatively old, but I’m digging it back up because these posts—specifically this interesting theory that envy is just a negative side of jealousy and the debate that followed—might hold some answers to questions I've been chewing on after hearing about a certain situation recently.

I'm wondering, when does jealousy—or perhaps envy, as a more complex and selfish version of jealousy—cross the line into something pathological?

And also, what’s the connection between envy and vindictiveness? In other words, if a person feels jealousy or envy first, they usually get closer to the person they're feeling it toward, but if the relationship doesn't turn positive, those negative feelings don't just resolve themselves into a friendship; instead, they just... stop. (Well, the relationship stops for secondary reasons, but that serves as a catalyst for the person to lean further into their resentment, which eventually manifests as revenge.) I’m simplifying things here just so we don't get bogged down in the weeds and can hopefully see the core issue. So, under what conditions does a rivalry continue even after the relationship has officially ended (what kind of personality type maintains that)? And at what point can we say something has become truly pathological?

That's a lot of questions, I know. But basically, do you think highly competitive people—as opposed to those who are more grounded and content with their place in the world—tend to struggle with pathological jealousy or envy? Or am I just overthinking this?

🤣

Envy and jealousy aren't exactly the same thing. They might overlap sometimes, but they’re fundamentally different experiences.

Envy is just what happens when too many similar cliques get crammed into the same space. They don't know what to do with themselves, so they start competing. It's pointless. People are just bored and looking for something to exhaust themselves over.

"To truly recognize someone else's value, you first have to have some of your own."

Arthur Schopenhauer

Gary James88 said:Envy and jealousy aren't exactly the same thing. They might overlap sometimes, but they’re fundamentally different experiences.

Both of them are teetering right on the edge of being actual pathology. Yikes. ☕

rowdyridge59 said:I just want to see people suffer, and it’s not even because I’m jealous or anything. I'm not being envious, I swear ☕

Exactly—you aren't envious, you're just "malicious."

Sure, malice can stem from envy, but it can also come from pure spite—after all, the mere thought of doing harm can provide a certain internal satisfaction. 😬

You can be malicious toward people you don't feel any envy toward at all—like those you simply despise as "lesser beings."

For me, envy and jealousy are two sides of the same coin—they basically walk hand in hand. I broke up with my ex about thirty years ago, and he just recently lost his absolute mind after stumbling upon my profile on a dating app. There’s a photo of me with some younger guy, and I’m actively chatting with people who, frankly, aren't exactly his type. He’s bitter about my marriage, my career success, and the fact that I actually have a solid circle of friends. Instead of dealing with reality, he sent me this barrage of insults fueled by pure projection—claiming I’m old and overweight (which is ridiculous, I’m at a perfectly healthy weight) and insisting that anyone telling me I’m attractive or sexy is just lying because they want to use me. He even went as far as suggesting I’m still suffering from lingering effects of a concussion and that everyone avoids me once they get to know the real me. He sent such disgusting, vile messages that I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. It’s all just a desperate play because he wants me to crawl back to him—to make him feel like the center of my universe again. He doesn't want a partner; he wants an insecure wreck he can control.

swifthawk23 said:For me, envy and jealousy are two sides of the same coin—they basically walk hand in hand. I broke up with my ex about thirty years ago, and he just recently lost his absolute mind after stumbling upon my profile on a dating app. There’s a photo of me with some younger guy, and I’m actively chatting with people who, frankly, aren't exactly his type. He’s bitter about my marriage, my career success, and the fact that I actually have a solid circle of friends. Instead of dealing with reality, he sent me this barrage of insults fueled by pure projection—claiming I’m old and overweight (which is ridiculous, I’m at a perfectly healthy weight) and insisting that anyone telling me I’m attractive or sexy is just lying because they want to use me. He even went as far as suggesting I’m still suffering from lingering effects of a concussion and that everyone avoids me once they get to know the real me. He sent such disgusting, vile messages that I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. It’s all just a desperate play because he wants me to crawl back to him—to make him feel like the center of my universe again. He doesn't want a partner; he wants an insecure wreck he can control.

You broke up thirty years ago?! Honestly, I probably wouldn't even remember someone I dated last year if we split after three decades... ☕
There you go, Lisa Hernandez3, this might be exactly the kind of pathological behavior you were talking about..

Lisa Hernandez3 said:This thread is relatively old, but I’m digging it back up because these posts—specifically this interesting theory that envy is just a negative side of jealousy and the debate that followed—might hold some answers to questions I've been chewing on after hearing about a certain situation recently.

I'm wondering, when does jealousy—or perhaps envy, as a more complex and selfish version of jealousy—cross the line into something pathological?

And also, what’s the connection between envy and vindictiveness? In other words, if a person feels jealousy or envy first, they usually get closer to the person they're feeling it toward, but if the relationship doesn't turn positive, those negative feelings don't just resolve themselves into a friendship; instead, they just... stop. (Well, the relationship stops for secondary reasons, but that serves as a catalyst for the person to lean further into their resentment, which eventually manifests as revenge.) I’m simplifying things here just so we don't get bogged down in the weeds and can hopefully see the core issue. So, under what conditions does a rivalry continue even after the relationship has officially ended (what kind of personality type maintains that)? And at what point can we say something has become truly pathological?

That's a lot of questions, I know. But basically, do you think highly competitive people—as opposed to those who are more grounded and content with their place in the world—tend to struggle with pathological jealousy or envy? Or am I just overthinking this?

🤣

It likely persists until that envious person finds peace with themselves. For a decent outcome, they really have to admit to themselves that they are acting out of envy and actually do the work to change.
Envy feels like a direct assault on the ego. It's that nagging thought: "How can that person be better or more successful than me?" I suppose..🙄

Regarding this specific question—when exactly does it cross the line into something pathological? Looking at the recent post: D

And yeah, naturally, people who are more self-aware and fulfilled are far less likely to fall into that "trap" of dependency.

Jealous people are just the worst. I’ve noticed though, that folks down south seem way less petty than they are here in Scandinavia. A buddy of mine used to hang out with this one guy from Denmark, but once he saw how well my friend was actually doing at his place, he just totally ghosted him. Believe it or not, he won't even give him the time of day now. People are just so jealous, especially since I guess having an exotic name is a bit more interesting than their boring ones. Honestly, you might as well just drive those jealous types crazy.

swiftrider80 said:You broke up thirty years ago?! Honestly, I probably wouldn't even remember someone I dated last year if we split after three decades... ☕
There you go, Lisa Hernandez3, this might be exactly the kind of pathological behavior you were talking about..

It likely persists until that envious person finds peace with themselves. For a decent outcome, they really have to admit to themselves that they are acting out of envy and actually do the work to change.
Envy feels like a direct assault on the ego. It's that nagging thought: "How can that person be better or more successful than me?" I suppose..🙄

Regarding this specific question—when exactly does it cross the line into something pathological? Looking at the recent post: D

And yeah, naturally, people who are more self-aware and fulfilled are far less likely to fall into that "trap" of dependency.

The absolute worst part is that even today, they tell everyone how much they love me and how they only want what's best for me. Unfortunately, deceptive people have always existed and always will; all we can do is try to survive them.

Well, I'm back on this thread.

Gary James88 said:Envy and jealousy aren't exactly the same thing. They might overlap sometimes, but they’re fundamentally different experiences.

They aren't exactly identical—though I suppose that's subjective—but if you're feeling up to it, I'd love to hear how you see them.

I think I understand how jealousy can spiral into something pathological, but envy usually seems to "form" around more categorical issues—less about those specific interpersonal or emotional triggers, and more about broader stuff. Under the umbrella of what I’d call "categorical"...😁I mean... I think what I'm getting at is—well, I suppose I'm referring to... Areas of resentment—it’s an interesting concept to dwell on, I suppose.Success, money, career, property, lifestyle—it’s all very well, isn't it? But there is this strange way that rivalry over these "categories" can spiral into a pathological fixation. It turns into this desperate need for revenge fueled by pure envy, even long after you have stopped actually interacting with the person you supposedly "hate." I suppose the answer lies in the fact that the relationship hasn't actually ended—not really. There is this unresolved emotional tether that keeps pulling you back, constantly renewed by every new milestone or success that makes you wonder whether you should be envious of them or not. If we notice them achieving something that rubs us the wrong way, our first instinct might just be to try and sabotage them... even if we haven't been in their orbit for years. Because what does that achieve, really? I guess we are just trying to soothe some deep-seated sense of personal failure—a feeling that this person provoked in us through their own status or achievements—by trying to drag them down to our level.

Well, I’ve had a chance to sit with my thoughts for a bit during this second part—just some quiet introspection, I suppose—and I think things are finally starting to feel a little clearer now. 😬

Gary James88:

I suppose there isn't much to say here—just some thoughts floating around, I guess. kaže: To truly recognize the value in someone else, I suppose you first have to possess a sense of your own. Arthur Schopenhauer

Well, that’s certainly interesting. 🙂

Envy hits when we want what someone else has; jealousy kicks in when we’re terrified of losing what’s already ours. Usually, jealousy is about people and connections, while envy is more about stuff.

My girlfriend meets up for coffee three times a week with some guy she insists is just a friend—that’s jealousy.

George makes twice as much as I do and just finished renovating his massive suburban home—that’s envy.

This hits home. I see what Gary James88 is saying regarding envy and jealousy, but I’m currently wrestling with something else entirely—something that doesn't feel quite like those two things.
I’ve been overthinking this one guy. He’s attractive, sure, but there were plenty of reasons to stay away. Eventually, I forced myself to face reality and decided it was better not to get involved. Part of that logic was based on the old theory that men are either unavailable or just trouble; if they're actually single, you should probably be suspicious. But that wasn't the only factor. Word got out that he’s seeing someone.
Even though I already convinced myself that staying away was the right move, I still don't feel like I have any right to care that he's involved with someone else. It's funny how once someone is off the market, they suddenly seem more desirable.
Am I being envious? Am I jealous or possessive? Or am I simply questioning my own judgment because she ended up with him, which feels like some sort of validation that he might actually be worth it?😵
I don't know anything about her. But I can't stop wondering.

Anyway, regarding Cocaine, I didn't really need such a basic breakdown of the difference between jealousy and envy—that part goes without saying, I suppose. Regardless, thanks.

What I’m actually curious about is how envy transitions into those pathological forms expressed through vendettas—specifically, when we try to sabotage someone's progress or visibility just because they possess certain qualities that aren't their fault, essentially trying to stop them from being a constant reminder of what we lack. I realize this sounds a bit abstract, but it's the closest I can get to what's on my mind, based on some patterns I've observed—which I might have explained more clearly in my previous post.

To clarify my edit: I'm wondering what constitutes the "pathological" aspect in these scenarios versus what is considered normal or simply human behavior. How does it tie back into one's actual personality?

But, like I mentioned, this was mostly just me processing things internally—I'm not looking to start a whole new debate on this specific angle, since I realize it's probably too niche.

I’m curious—do you ever find yourself feeling jealous of your friends when they happen to be better looking, wealthier, or more successful than you?
For instance, I don't really care if an acquaintance is more attractive or doing better in life; since we aren't close, their success doesn't really impact my daily reality, so I just tune it out. But when it comes to my actual friends, I catch myself feeling envious and constantly comparing my life to theirs, which is something I really want to stop doing.
Do you think someone who struggles with jealousy can truly be considered a good friend?

Also, does anyone have advice on how to actually be content with who you are, accept your own limitations, and stop feeling this constant pressure to overextend yourself?

Thanks.

Gary James88...

Anthony Ward20 said:I’m curious—do you ever find yourself feeling jealous of your friends when they happen to be better looking, wealthier, or more successful than you?
For instance, I don't really care if an acquaintance is more attractive or doing better in life; since we aren't close, their success doesn't really impact my daily reality, so I just tune it out. But when it comes to my actual friends, I catch myself feeling envious and constantly comparing my life to theirs, which is something I really want to stop doing.
Do you think someone who struggles with jealousy can truly be considered a good friend?

Also, does anyone have advice on how to actually be content with who you are, accept your own limitations, and stop feeling this constant pressure to overextend yourself?

Thanks.

It’s important to distinguish between envy and jealousy, as they aren't quite the same thing. What seems to be bothering you is actually envy... especially since you mentioned earlier that you "always feel envious"...

I don't want to overstep or act like an expert, but maybe this copy-paste will help clarify some of those points you're struggling with...
Gary James88:

When someone says, "They're just jealous of my success," whether it's a new car or a promotion, they’ve missed the mark between jealousy and envy. Understanding that distinction—true emotional literacy—is vital, not just in a marriage, but in every connection we make... Once you can actually identify and name what you're feeling, you start to truly grasp your own reactions and the people around you... Unlike envy, jealousy actually requires love to exist. You have to care about something first before you can fear someone else might steal it away from you... Envy, on the other hand, leaves no room for affection, whether in a romance or even a true friendship. While jealousy involves three people—where there's a real or imagined rival involved—envy only ever needs two... Envy isn't just about wanting what someone else has, though that's how most people simplify it. To truly feel envy, you have to be constantly measuring yourself against others. That’s why we see so much generational envy... When you compare yourself to a peer and notice they possess a quality or achievement you deeply value, you don't see them as simply successful. Instead, you see them as superior. It forces the realization that if they are better, then by that same measure, you are falling behind. In that moment, someone else's success becomes a direct reflection of your own perceived failure, which is where that sharp, painful sting of envy actually comes from... Envy stems from the belief that one person holds more value than another. If you can close that perceived gap, the bitterness fades... There are two ways to handle it: either tear down what makes someone successful, or work harder to achieve that same level of excellence themselves. Taking the first route is much easier and faster, which is why so many people fall into that "if I can't have it, neither can you" mindset. When enough people follow that logic, it turns into a toxic group mentality... When a group is fueled by destructive envy, being successful or standing out becomes a liability. You can't build a thriving society without high achievers, so this aggressive hostility between peers really stunts collective progress... The only way out is to stop measuring ourselves against everyone else and realize that someone else's win doesn't diminish our own. (author: Dr. Z. Milivojevic, psychotherapist)

P.S. I'm merging this thread with an existing one on the same topic...

Envy is such a fascinating emotion to pick apart. We all feel it at some point, but I’m constantly wondering where we draw the line—when do we decide to actually lash out at someone because of what they have, and when do we just let it go? It seems like there's a massive divide here. You look at incredibly successful, wealthy people, and they rarely deal with this kind of resentment; instead, people tend to openly admire their achievements and their status. But then, on the flip side, you see certain individuals who get constant backlash and targeted simply because of their success. What’s the actual driver behind that? There’s this deep-seated concept of petty jealousy that pops up whenever one person gains even the slightest edge over another. It stems from those tiny, incremental differences between us. We like to tell ourselves we all started on a level playing field, which leads to that nagging thought: "If we all had the same shot, how did they end up getting ahead of me?" It’s strange to me how, in certain parts of the country, people will shower praise on criminals, folks who just moved in for quick cash, or career politicians, yet they’ll turn around and openly resent someone who is genuinely educated, hardworking, and building something legitimate. Where does that disconnect come from?

Envy isn't some illogical glitch. Some people are genuinely angry, and honestly, they end up feeling envious because they feel like life dealt them an unfair hand—and maybe it still is.

For me? I’ve managed to dial back that sense of envy big time just by working on myself.
Envy is such a drag because it's pure negativity. It just puts off this bad energy that weighs everything down.

When I take a step back and look at the big picture, I think about people out there struggling just to find shelter or a decent meal. Suddenly, feeling envious seems pretty absurd, doesn't it?

You never know when your time is up. Carrying around stuff like envy just drags you into a dark headspace that ruins who you are as a person.

I’ve definitely found that working on myself helps dial down the envy—but man, I’ve got another hurdle to clear. It absolutely kills me when someone who had a massive head start—like, they were born on third base while I was still trying to find the stadium—acts like they’re somehow smarter or better than me just because of where they started. It’s soul-crushing.

Paul Martinez15 said:I’ve definitely found that working on myself helps dial down the envy—but man, I’ve got another hurdle to clear. It absolutely kills me when someone who had a massive head start—like, they were born on third base while I was still trying to find the stadium—acts like they’re somehow smarter or better than me just because of where they started. It’s soul-crushing.

When you say it "gets to you," what does that actually look like? Do you find yourself engaging with those types of people, or do you just steer clear?
I can't help but wonder if that old saying, "birds of a feather flock together," actually holds true for everyone.