Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

restlesssurfer97 said:Honestly, I think it’s more than obvious that we would’ve been way ahead of the curve if we’d just let the free market do its thing from the start and built our society on that foundation instead of this absolute mess we’ve managed to create. And look, even if we decided to go full laissez-faire right this second, the first thing that would happen is all that leftover privatization garbage would just get cleared out naturally, because honestly, not even one percent of those bloated entities would survive a real competitive market, which would finally give us a clean slate to actually build something worthwhile. We’re basically twenty-eight years behind where we should be, but hey, I guess it's better late than never, right?

We would have ended up exactly where we are. It wasn't the presence of market regulations that ruined us—it was the systemic looting. One way or another, we were always going to get robbed.

ruggedjackal46 said:So, what’s the actual fix here? Are we supposed to just hand everything over to a free market dominated by the same corporate titans who made their fortunes during the deregulation era of the 90s? I listen to you liberals constantly—and look, most of your critiques regarding government corruption are actually pretty valid—but I have yet to hear a single constructive idea for a solution. In my experience, whether looking at theory or real-world practice, I haven't seen how completely abandoning oversight to the market solves a damn thing.

There isn't one.
We're already done for.

Matthew Young35 said:We would have ended up exactly where we are. It wasn't the presence of market regulations that ruined us—it was the systemic looting. One way or another, we were always going to get robbed.

Look, I’m just saying they’d be in a way better spot right now, and I’m definitely not claiming that the war or the looting wouldn't have happened regardless.

restlesssurfer97 said:Honestly, I think it’s more than obvious that we would’ve been way ahead of the curve if we’d just let the free market do its thing from the start and built our society on that foundation instead of this absolute mess we’ve managed to create. And look, even if we decided to go full laissez-faire right this second, the first thing that would happen is all that leftover privatization garbage would just get cleared out naturally, because honestly, not even one percent of those bloated entities would survive a real competitive market, which would finally give us a clean slate to actually build something worthwhile. We’re basically twenty-eight years behind where we should be, but hey, I guess it's better late than never, right?

It isn't just obvious; it's practically written in stone, especially since this whole disaster was born during that messy transition from socialism to capitalism. And look, our little corner of the States wouldn't be special in that regard; you saw similar predatory privatization schemes play out across almost every former socialist nation. Whether you look at the chaos in Russia or what happened in the old North America, the "transition" process basically just meant looting everything, gutting useful public utilities, and handing massive amounts of power to a handful of oligarchs. In a true free market, anyone with that kind of concentrated power would still find ways to dominate, which isn't exactly comforting—whether you're talking about a corrupt tycoon in Chicago or some massive Russian banking conglomerate.

By the way, man, we all got played by those old-school radicals who suddenly rebranded themselves as "liberals" back in the early nineties. It’s that exact same mindset, honestly—they weren't ever true believers in the old system, and they aren't actual democrats now either; when you look at their core ideology, they’re really just nothing but crooks.

Those staunch defenders of statism are constantly demanding proof that the free market actually works in the real world 🙏🙏🙏

But honestly, ruggedjackal46... if you look at almost any successful nation on the planet, the answer is pretty obvious 😉

Matthew Young35 said:In this country, none of those tycoons are actual entrepreneurs; they're just thieves. I already stated that I have nothing against genuine business owners.
I don't have an issue with the small-scale players who are being squeezed by the government. On the other hand, when it comes to people like the Koch brothers or similar figures...

Every single nation... every society has its share of regime-backed oligarchs. The state breathes life into them, and the state can just as easily suffocate them. It is incredibly rare for any one individual to actually become more powerful than the government itself.

restlesssurfer97 said:By the way, man, we all got played by those old-school radicals who suddenly rebranded themselves as "liberals" back in the early nineties. It’s that exact same mindset, honestly—they weren't ever true believers in the old system, and they aren't actual democrats now either; when you look at their core ideology, they’re really just nothing but crooks.

Not quite.
We were robbed by crooks.
Some might have been radicals and others might not, but make no mistake—every single one of them was a thief.

Everyone turns into a thief the second they see an opening—especially when they feel like the risk-to-reward ratio is tipped heavily in their favor. In this country, those guys practically had zero skin in the game

Justin James10 said:Those staunch defenders of statism are constantly demanding proof that the free market actually works in the real world 🙏🙏🙏

But honestly, ruggedjackal46... if you look at almost any successful nation on the planet, the answer is pretty obvious 😉

Look, this constant sniping on the forums is getting a bit old, but if you want to have an actual, serious debate, you’re going to have to put in some real effort. We aren't living in 1989 anymore where everyone was busy celebrating capitalism as the "end of history." We're stuck in a pretty messy era where even people in the West who aren't hardcore socialists are starting to question whether the system is still working.

shadowmarlin22 said:Everyone turns into a thief the second they see an opening—especially when they feel like the risk-to-reward ratio is tipped heavily in their favor. In this country, those guys practically had zero skin in the game

Sounds like he's talking about himself.

If you actually left everything up to the free market, you wouldn't even be holding an iPhone right now. Every single component inside those things was built thanks to massive government subsidies and taxpayer funding.

wiredfalcon2 said:If you actually left everything up to the free market, you wouldn't even be holding an iPhone right now. Every single component inside those things was built thanks to massive government subsidies and taxpayer funding.

Sure, if we're talking about iPhones. But if you actually left everything to the "pure" market, you probably wouldn't have indoor plumbing, either.

ruggedjackal46 said:Sounds like he's talking about himself.

Don't sweat it.

shadowmarlin22 said:Don't sweat it.

Look, sure, plenty of people would turn into thieves if they had the chance—and honestly, you’d probably be one of them too, judging by what you're saying here. But that’s hardly a universal rule. I’ve seen plenty of folks get a golden opportunity to swipe something and they just... don't. This whole argument that everyone would act like some corrupt billionaire CEO if they were in that position? It’s nothing more than a convenient way to excuse guys like him and his cronies.

ruggedjackal46 said:Look, sure, plenty of people would turn into thieves if they had the chance—and honestly, you’d probably be one of them too, judging by what you're saying here. But that’s hardly a universal rule. I’ve seen plenty of folks get a golden opportunity to swipe something and they just... don't. This whole argument that everyone would act like some corrupt billionaire CEO if they were in that position? It’s nothing more than a convenient way to excuse guys like him and his cronies.

I was speaking in broad terms—it doesn't necessarily have to be about cash. Maybe it's a situation where someone steals medicine because their neighbors have no other choice. It isn't always about money. Let's face it, nobody is 100% morally pure.

ruggedjackal46 said:Sure, if we're talking about iPhones. But if you actually left everything to the "pure" market, you probably wouldn't have indoor plumbing, either.

Look, I don't think restlesssurfer97 is some hardcore libertarian. He’s not an idiot. Sure, he’s from a small town in rural Kansas, but you can find decent people anywhere if you look hard enough.

shadowmarlin22 said:I was speaking in broad terms—it doesn't necessarily have to be about cash. Maybe it's a situation where someone steals medicine because their neighbors have no other choice. It isn't always about money. Let's face it, nobody is 100% morally pure.

We aren't talking about some kid snatching a loaf of bread from a local bakery; we're talking about the corporate sharks who gut major utility companies and walk away with billions in stolen assets.

The real reason America is lagging behind other major players is this constant legal instability. It’s a mess—corrupt laws, overlapping regulations where you’re basically breaking the law just by existing, and rules that change every five minutes. If you could actually settle a lawsuit in a reasonable timeframe or plan a business strategy for the next five or ten years without the floor dropping out from under you, the economy would actually take off. Honestly, tax rates aren't even the main issue here, nor is how the government spends the money. On a global scale, we’ll finally see some real growth once we become more like the Americans in places like Seattle, where only about 21% of people are religious.

Exactly—most of these people wouldn't even steal a loaf of bread from a local bakery if the profit wasn't there. It’s all about the margin. The government exists to monitor the situation and then crack down on them—basically making sure it just isn't worth the risk.