Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Kyle Lopez2 said:Honestly, if you're really that obsessed with Wuhan, maybe you should just focus on Italy instead. They’ve got a 9% infection rate spreading through hospitals filled with the most vulnerable people—folks who probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway.🙏
Why didn't you pull the mortality data for Korea, Japan, or China outside of the Wuhan area?🤔 Man, I don't know what to tell you—your data just doesn't seem to line up.

We're just cherry-picking bits and pieces now, aren't we? It’s getting a little ridiculous.☕ Why on earth would you think anyone’s asking me anything, or that I’m under some kind of delusion thinking I actually *should* be asked?🤔 Is talking about politics officially banned now by some kind of commissar's decree?

If you're going to label me a sociopath, then fine—I’ll call you an emotional wreck right back, mostly because that seems to be how your mind works.

If I’m reading this right and they expect these quarantine measures to stay in place for five or six months just to build up herd immunity, then I don't exactly need a PhD to figure out that I'll be completely broke by then. What happens after that? I'll be stuck choosing between taking out a loan equal to the entire GDP or just driving around a few times to stay warm once fall and winter finally roll around.☕ I’m actually looking forward to seeing interest rates climb by a few points.

If you really want to wage a full-scale war against a crisis, go ahead—you’ll just be staring down a mountain of medical supplies where a single vial costs more than a used car, leaving you to fight tooth and nail for every single life. Personally, I try to be a bit more selective about which battles I pick.

What exactly makes you think I’d stand in the way of saving a family member's life? You seem to think I’m oblivious to the fact that my own people could be at risk too. Am I supposed to just shift my political stance out of fear—like claiming I'm "well-connected" just so I can secure a cushy job—when the reality is we already have plenty of hardworking people doing the work? 🤷 I'm sure you wouldn't want to leave your own kids out on the streets facing those kinds of fatal risks. 🤷

I harbor no delusions regarding whether you seek my input or if you all intend to; rather, I am simply using a direct reality check to shatter your illusion that you have any authority to decide what can or cannot be challenged within your own posts.☕

Kyle Lopez2 said:Honestly, if you're really that obsessed with Wuhan, maybe you should just focus on Italy instead. They’ve got a 9% infection rate spreading through hospitals filled with the most vulnerable people—folks who probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway.🙏
Why didn't you pull the mortality data for Korea, Japan, or China outside of the Wuhan area?🤔 Man, I don't know what to tell you—your data just doesn't seem to line up.

We're just cherry-picking bits and pieces now, aren't we? It’s getting a little ridiculous.☕ Why on earth would you think anyone’s asking me anything, or that I’m under some kind of delusion thinking I actually *should* be asked?🤔 Is talking about politics officially banned now by some kind of commissar's decree?

If you're going to label me a sociopath, then fine—I’ll call you an emotional wreck right back, mostly because that seems to be how your mind works.

If I’m reading this right and they expect these quarantine measures to stay in place for five or six months just to build up herd immunity, then I don't exactly need a PhD to figure out that I'll be completely broke by then. What happens after that? I'll be stuck choosing between taking out a loan equal to the entire GDP or just driving around a few times to stay warm once fall and winter finally roll around.☕ I’m actually looking forward to seeing interest rates climb by a few points.

If you really want to wage a full-scale war against a crisis, go ahead—you’ll just be staring down a mountain of medical supplies where a single vial costs more than a used car, leaving you to fight tooth and nail for every single life. Personally, I try to be a bit more selective about which battles I pick.

What exactly makes you think I’d stand in the way of saving a family member's life? You seem to think I’m oblivious to the fact that my own people could be at risk too. Am I supposed to just shift my political stance out of fear—like claiming I'm "well-connected" just so I can secure a cushy job—when the reality is we already have plenty of hardworking people doing the work? 🤷 I'm sure you wouldn't want to leave your own kids out on the streets facing those kinds of fatal risks. 🤷

Under the premise of democracy—and I would venture to say Western civilization itself—the protection of the individual and a humanistic approach should be the absolute priority.
If I am merely an "emotional wreck," then by that logic, every major government in the world operates under the exact same flawed reasoning.

Or is it just a special agenda in America to force the economy onto its knees? From what I see in Europe, things are moving along fine, tourism is thriving, and so on.

The idea of allowing a few thousand people to perish via natural selection does not align with liberal democracies; that is the hallmark of totalitarian agendas that utilize eugenics to eliminate the "unfit" or employ various cultural revolutions to manage population surpluses. In this instance, they aren't using brute force, but rather the spread of a pandemic.

If you weren't busy taking sides with specific moderators in their battles against dissenting users, you would have been banned from this forum long ago for a post like that.

And feel free to keep singing your songs about communism and commissar decrees that supposedly dictate our basic freedoms.☕

Kyle Lopez2 said:Honestly, if you're really that obsessed with Wuhan, maybe you should just focus on Italy instead. They’ve got a 9% infection rate spreading through hospitals filled with the most vulnerable people—folks who probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway.🙏
Why didn't you pull the mortality data for Korea, Japan, or China outside of the Wuhan area?🤔 Man, I don't know what to tell you—your data just doesn't seem to line up.

We're just cherry-picking bits and pieces now, aren't we? It’s getting a little ridiculous.☕ Why on earth would you think anyone’s asking me anything, or that I’m under some kind of delusion thinking I actually *should* be asked?🤔 Is talking about politics officially banned now by some kind of commissar's decree?

If you're going to label me a sociopath, then fine—I’ll call you an emotional wreck right back, mostly because that seems to be how your mind works.

If I’m reading this right and they expect these quarantine measures to stay in place for five or six months just to build up herd immunity, then I don't exactly need a PhD to figure out that I'll be completely broke by then. What happens after that? I'll be stuck choosing between taking out a loan equal to the entire GDP or just driving around a few times to stay warm once fall and winter finally roll around.☕ I’m actually looking forward to seeing interest rates climb by a few points.

If you really want to wage a full-scale war against a crisis, go ahead—you’ll just be staring down a mountain of medical supplies where a single vial costs more than a used car, leaving you to fight tooth and nail for every single life. Personally, I try to be a bit more selective about which battles I pick.

What exactly makes you think I’d stand in the way of saving a family member's life? You seem to think I’m oblivious to the fact that my own people could be at risk too. Am I supposed to just shift my political stance out of fear—like claiming I'm "well-connected" just so I can secure a cushy job—when the reality is we already have plenty of hardworking people doing the work? 🤷 I'm sure you wouldn't want to leave your own kids out on the streets facing those kinds of fatal risks. 🤷

What nonsense. This talk of five or six months is absurd. The lockdowns in China yielded results much sooner, and they will yield results wherever they are implemented. In my opinion, because of certain fools, the measures are becoming increasingly stringent; currently, they are excessive simply because of people like that.

Clearly, you consider yourself some sort of economic expert. It is as if we were living in the 19th century and everything was destined to collapse.

Boris Johnson was once a major proponent of herd immunity, yet he abandoned that stance overnight and imposed even stricter restrictions than we have here.
And what does he know? Some idiot standing on a street corner claims you can just walk around freely and that doing so will somehow make the nation immune to this previously unknown virus.

Besides, if you are actually employed, obtaining a pass should be a seamless process. I fail to see the basis for complaining about these procedures. 👍

Kyle Lopez2 said:Honestly, if you're really that obsessed with Wuhan, maybe you should just focus on Italy instead. They’ve got a 9% infection rate spreading through hospitals filled with the most vulnerable people—folks who probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway.🙏
Why didn't you pull the mortality data for Korea, Japan, or China outside of the Wuhan area?🤔 Man, I don't know what to tell you—your data just doesn't seem to line up.

We're just cherry-picking bits and pieces now, aren't we? It’s getting a little ridiculous.☕ Why on earth would you think anyone’s asking me anything, or that I’m under some kind of delusion thinking I actually *should* be asked?🤔 Is talking about politics officially banned now by some kind of commissar's decree?

If you're going to label me a sociopath, then fine—I’ll call you an emotional wreck right back, mostly because that seems to be how your mind works.

If I’m reading this right and they expect these quarantine measures to stay in place for five or six months just to build up herd immunity, then I don't exactly need a PhD to figure out that I'll be completely broke by then. What happens after that? I'll be stuck choosing between taking out a loan equal to the entire GDP or just driving around a few times to stay warm once fall and winter finally roll around.☕ I’m actually looking forward to seeing interest rates climb by a few points.

If you really want to wage a full-scale war against a crisis, go ahead—you’ll just be staring down a mountain of medical supplies where a single vial costs more than a used car, leaving you to fight tooth and nail for every single life. Personally, I try to be a bit more selective about which battles I pick.

What exactly makes you think I’d stand in the way of saving a family member's life? You seem to think I’m oblivious to the fact that my own people could be at risk too. Am I supposed to just shift my political stance out of fear—like claiming I'm "well-connected" just so I can secure a cushy job—when the reality is we already have plenty of hardworking people doing the work? 🤷 I'm sure you wouldn't want to leave your own kids out on the streets facing those kinds of fatal risks. 🤷

By all means, choose your battles, but you won't do so at the expense of the community. As another gentleman so eloquently explained, everyone wants to enjoy their rights, but the moment social obligations arise, the whining begins.

restlesssurfer97 said:Around here, officials are wearing masks half the time and skipping them the other half.
Some cynical people might try to claim they’re ditching them just because there’s a shortage, thinking it’s a way to dodge public backlash against the government structures that demand huge sacrifices from everyday Americans while failing to provide even the most basic necessities. But honestly, those people are just being bitter.

The local politicians and Unknown are having these intense one-on-one chats, standing just two meters apart with their masks on. Total idiots.

When the earthquake hit on Sunday morning, the President and the Secretary of Health were at the press conference repeatedly telling everyone to maintain distance and wear masks. Five minutes later, a group of about 30 people is walking through the city together. The President has his mask pulled down under his chin, the Mayor isn't wearing one at all, and the Secretary of Health just has it over his mouth with his nose sticking right out.

It's a total comedy 🤣

I actually heard the President tell a reporter, "Watch your distance," while the Mayor was standing less than 50 cm away, picking his nose.

They even went into an old church later where the local priest was showing them some ruins, and the President is just wiping his nose with his bare hands. 🤣

Go ahead and explain that to Paul Martinez73 😂

Noah Perez2 said:I harbor no delusions regarding whether you seek my input or if you all intend to; rather, I am simply using a direct reality check to shatter your illusion that you have any authority to decide what can or cannot be challenged within your own posts.☕

Under the premise of democracy—and I would venture to say Western civilization itself—the protection of the individual and a humanistic approach should be the absolute priority.
If I am merely an "emotional wreck," then by that logic, every major government in the world operates under the exact same flawed reasoning.

Or is it just a special agenda in America to force the economy onto its knees? From what I see in Europe, things are moving along fine, tourism is thriving, and so on.

The idea of allowing a few thousand people to perish via natural selection does not align with liberal democracies; that is the hallmark of totalitarian agendas that utilize eugenics to eliminate the "unfit" or employ various cultural revolutions to manage population surpluses. In this instance, they aren't using brute force, but rather the spread of a pandemic.

If you weren't busy taking sides with specific moderators in their battles against dissenting users, you would have been banned from this forum long ago for a post like that.

And feel free to keep singing your songs about communism and commissar decrees that supposedly dictate our basic freedoms.☕

What nonsense. This talk of five or six months is absurd. The lockdowns in China yielded results much sooner, and they will yield results wherever they are implemented. In my opinion, because of certain fools, the measures are becoming increasingly stringent; currently, they are excessive simply because of people like that.

Clearly, you consider yourself some sort of economic expert. It is as if we were living in the 19th century and everything was destined to collapse.

Boris Johnson was once a major proponent of herd immunity, yet he abandoned that stance overnight and imposed even stricter restrictions than we have here.
And what does he know? Some idiot standing on a street corner claims you can just walk around freely and that doing so will somehow make the nation immune to this previously unknown virus.

Besides, if you are actually employed, obtaining a pass should be a seamless process. I fail to see the basis for complaining about these procedures. 👍

By all means, choose your battles, but you won't do so at the expense of the community. As another gentleman so eloquently explained, everyone wants to enjoy their rights, but the moment social obligations arise, the whining begins.

Check out what this guy has to say about all of this:

🍿

Paul Martinez73 said:I guess now we'll just have to wait for Anthony Jackson2 and Papi to explain why these numbers are somehow wrong...

Look, anyone with a basic grasp of statistics is going to tell you those figures are off. 🤷

For data to actually mean anything, you need verification—absolute certainty. Can you even prove the infection count listed here is accurate? An Italian virologist already noted they saw a massive spike in unusual pneumonia cases back in early December—meaning there's a real chance the virus hit Italy long before they even started tracking it.

Spain is seeing the same thing—they exhumed a body only to realize it was the first death from COVID-19. They have zero clue when the virus actually arrived or how many people were infected.

Then you have Germany—they don't test people who die outside of hospitals for the virus, so they effectively have no idea what their actual death toll looks like.

Statistics is a science built on foundations—what you're throwing out here is just baseless rambling.

Honestly, the Norwegians had the exact same idea—thinking they could just "isolate" themselves at their vacation homes and weekend retreats. Just like we saw here, there was this sudden, massive spike in population density in tiny areas that simply didn't have the oversight or medical infrastructure to handle it, all based on the false hope of being socially distanced. They even ended up banning people from leaving the major cities to try and manage the chaos.
My prediction? The biggest mess is going to happen on the islands, which are getting absolutely packed with local and international "isolators," making them just as crowded as they are during the peak summer months.

Anthony Jackson2 said:Look, anyone with a basic grasp of statistics is going to tell you those figures are off. 🤷

For data to actually mean anything, you need verification—absolute certainty. Can you even prove the infection count listed here is accurate? An Italian virologist already noted they saw a massive spike in unusual pneumonia cases back in early December—meaning there's a real chance the virus hit Italy long before they even started tracking it.

Spain is seeing the same thing—they exhumed a body only to realize it was the first death from COVID-19. They have zero clue when the virus actually arrived or how many people were infected.

Then you have Germany—they don't test people who die outside of hospitals for the virus, so they effectively have no idea what their actual death toll looks like.

Statistics is a science built on foundations—what you're throwing out here is just baseless rambling.

But sure, go ahead and claim the mortality rate is low or similar to the flu. Or maybe argue that the numbers are high only because everyone is getting hospitalized and tested? Do you see the contradiction there? What are you even basing these assumptions on, since you haven't provided a shred of evidence for this "six weeks of mild cases" theory... maybe you'll actually have some proof for this part?

That’s like claiming HIV mortality rates are fake because plenty of people die worldwide without being recorded, or arguing that people aren't being recorded in the stats because there are still huge numbers of cases in Africa that aren't tracked.

Why focus on anything other than reporting the confirmed cases and the outcomes of those reported cases? If there's a massive wave of unreported infections, there's an equally massive wave of unreported deaths. One rises with the other; you can try to nitpick the known figures all you want, but you can't just delete the imaginary ones you think are more accurate...

Let’s be clear: I’m not exactly thrilled about this recent decision either. It feels incredibly rushed, like it was slapped together without any clear guidelines or logical boundaries. I mean, think about it—if you look at a metro area like Los Angeles, you have several distinct cities all bunched together, yet they function differently. Where exactly is the line supposed to be drawn? As it stands, it seems like anyone can just pick and choose where they want to go based on whatever proposal lands in their lap. This whole situation following the Earthquake has been a complete mess. In my opinion, we should have implemented certain, more moderate, and clearly defined measures much sooner. For instance, we could have set borders based on county lines or broader regional districts, ensuring that smaller municipalities and local tourism boards could effectively report sudden spikes in population density or monitor traffic flow along the major interstates...

So, apparently some soccer players just dropped 500,000€ to help out with COVID-19 and the Earthquake.
The little guy makes enough daily to cover $167, so if we assume everyone chipped in about 25,000€, our average Joe basically handed over a third of his daily pay...
Talk about pure patriotism, right? I guess I’ll just go ahead and donate $33 so I can brag about it on Twitter and wait for the applause...

Anyway, Sime donated 62,000€ to Zadar Hospital, while Unknown sent money to Livno 🤷

Hugo, let me know if you actually have the inside scoop on this, but is it true they’re still only cranking out just 200 tests a day?

I was told that back when the mumps epidemic broke out in 1972, the quarantine zone for the Split area was centered around Klis-Grl, where sheep graze today, simply because that served as the only northern entrance to the city at the time. I have no idea why they decided to implement such an unintelligent blockade at the Walmart roundabout today. As far as I could tell this morning, there was nothing on the way toward Stobreč, yet people on the radio were claiming there were four checkpoints heading toward Trogir.

They could have efficiently blocked the highway at the top of Klis, forcing those unable to enter the zone to divert via the roundabout toward Dugopolj and vice versa; cutting off the entire conglomerate like this is frankly ridiculous.

restlesssurfer97 said:Check out what this guy has to say about all of this:

🍿

If some philosophy is more complex than the whole Messi vs Ronaldo debate, I am certainly not reading it this afternoon.☕

restlesssurfer97 said:Hugo, let me know if you actually have the inside scoop on this, but is it true they’re still only cranking out just 200 tests a day?

But honestly, this is just the kind of thing America will forget about during times like these.

Paul Martinez73 said:So, apparently some soccer players just dropped 500,000€ to help out with COVID-19 and the Earthquake.
The little guy makes enough daily to cover $167, so if we assume everyone chipped in about 25,000€, our average Joe basically handed over a third of his daily pay...
Talk about pure patriotism, right? I guess I’ll just go ahead and donate $33 so I can brag about it on Twitter and wait for the applause...

Anyway, Sime donated 62,000€ to Zadar Hospital, while Unknown sent money to Livno 🤷

500 $0.00 So, if you do the math on that 365 figure, we're looking at roughly 182 million bucks, which translates to about 24.4 million euros if you're tracking it that way.

Forget about all those numbers, man, that’s way too much math for you anyway, so you might as well just go ahead and send over those funds instead. $33.

restlesssurfer97 said:Hugo, let me know if you actually have the inside scoop on this, but is it true they’re still only cranking out just 200 tests a day?

I'm not entirely sure on the exact numbers. What I do know is that testing operations are ramping up in cities like Split, Rijeka, and Osijek, so we should see much higher capacity and significantly shorter wait times very soon!

William Kim said:

But honestly, this is just the kind of thing America will forget about during times like these.

The PCR method we’re using here is practically the gold standard—it's arguably the most sensitive and specific method available. I highly doubt there’s an alternative that wouldn't cost more overall, though maybe some other way could churn out more results at the expense of reliability (I couldn't find the exact sensitivity and specificity stats with a quick search). It might be an ideal solution for sparsely populated regions where people have to drive hours to reach a lab—think parts of the rural US or other massive states—but since we're usually only a couple of hours away from a PCR center, I don't think we even need to consider it!

The Italians are basically just multiplying the infection count by 10 at this point. And honestly? That probably includes everyone out there who’s barely even feeling sick or has zero symptoms at all.

Do you guys at least agree that massive, widespread testing really ought to be one of the top priorities in this whole fight, regardless of how much the bill actually comes to?
And if you aren't on board with that, what's your reasoning?

restlesssurfer97 said:500 $0.00 So, if you do the math on that 365 figure, we're looking at roughly 182 million bucks, which translates to about 24.4 million euros if you're tracking it that way.

Forget about all those numbers, man, that’s way too much math for you anyway, so you might as well just go ahead and send over those funds instead. $33.

What are you even sucking on $33 for? ☕
Didn't you just sit here crying about wanting a perm? Go back to sobbing somewhere else, serious topics clearly aren't for you.

restlesssurfer97 said:Do you guys at least agree that massive, widespread testing really ought to be one of the top priorities in this whole fight, regardless of how much the bill actually comes to?
And if you aren't on board with that, what's your reasoning?

My initial gut reaction was exactly the same—that we need to be testing everyone, everywhere—but once I sat with the thought for a moment, I started seeing the lack of efficiency in such a broad approach.

There are three main reasons for my hesitation.

First off, if we are talking about mass testing, who exactly are we targeting? Just pulling random people off the street in a major city like New York? Who would even have the logistical capacity to manage that scale?

Second, how often would these tests occur? If I test positive today, fine, but what happens if I test negative today and catch it tomorrow right after my turn has passed?

Third, and perhaps most importantly, I can already picture the behavior of a group that has been randomly tested and comes back negative. "Hey Razbu, come over for a drink, grab the crew, let's celebrate!"

restlesssurfer97 said:Do you guys at least agree that massive, widespread testing really ought to be one of the top priorities in this whole fight, regardless of how much the bill actually comes to?
And if you aren't on board with that, what's your reasoning?

Just imagine the media frenzy and the attacks on the White House and the crisis task force if they tested as aggressively as you’re suggesting. I guess very few people would actually admit they were doing a good job.

brightpilot6 said:My initial gut reaction was exactly the same—that we need to be testing everyone, everywhere—but once I sat with the thought for a moment, I started seeing the lack of efficiency in such a broad approach.

There are three main reasons for my hesitation.

First off, if we are talking about mass testing, who exactly are we targeting? Just pulling random people off the street in a major city like New York? Who would even have the logistical capacity to manage that scale?

Second, how often would these tests occur? If I test positive today, fine, but what happens if I test negative today and catch it tomorrow right after my turn has passed?

Third, and perhaps most importantly, I can already picture the behavior of a group that has been randomly tested and comes back negative. "Hey Razbu, come over for a drink, grab the crew, let's celebrate!"

1. From a mathematical standpoint, you’d need to assemble a whole squad of mathematicians and data scientists to build out a proper model, which is a serious undertaking.
2. And no matter how often it needs to happen—again, following the model—whether it's today or repeating it in five days, I honestly have no clue.

So basically, you develop a model and just hammer away at it, doing 10,000, 15,000, maybe even 50,000 tests a day, whatever is possible. Once an infected person is identified, they immediately go into isolation and everyone they've been in contact with for the last 10 days gets tested too.

That is a massive operation that requires serious logistical preparation.

I'm not talking about America specifically—the US probably isn't going to lead the charge on anything like this anyway—I'm talking about a universal strategy.
I mean a global approach.

I don't know exactly how this specific test works, whether it picks up antibodies or just the virus itself, but we should definitely include antibody testing to see how many people might have already cruised through it without even knowing.

I think I wrote something similar in another thread, so I'm basically repeating myself, but doing it this way wouldn't just stop the spread faster, it would actually give us an accurate mortality rate, which is huge. We’d know exactly how many people have recovered, and based on those numbers, we could calculate the real threat of a second wave and prepare for it much more effectively. Things like medication supplies (since certain combinations of drugs are already looking promising for treatment) or the amount of vaccine needed if one is found... we could build a serious strategy for the next 6 to 18 months based on a massive, rich database of info.

Is it complicated and expensive? Of course it is, but if we can lock people in their houses and endure billions of dollars in economic losses, we can certainly pull together a high-quality strategy based on mass testing.

ps. South Koreans have the most convincing record for testing per million people, and they were the fastest at shutting down the epidemic.
pps. I also read somewhere that a tiny little town in Italy tested almost everyone, kept repeating the tests, and they haven't had a single new case in days.