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Resources and support for families dealing with cancer and serious illness

Started by Angela Wright · · 👁 184 views · 3K replies

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Participants Angela WrightChristian Wilson16Morgan Williams4Jeremy Nelson3John Chase6steelbadger83hiddentiger80urbanjackal3silentviper30mistyranger4ruggednomad182placidfalconJerry Morales4frozenviper492velvetgull9Joshua Flores48Frank Ramirez23Roger Hall15Walter Cox5mellowlynx8boldjackal70northernfox9ALaura Gomez10 …
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1341 ·
Melissa Kim45 said:I’m so sorry. My dad passed away at 64, too.
Hang in there, guys, regardless of which side you're on. 🙂

Her labs came back at 132. It’s decent. She’s got another round of chemo this Monday. They tweaked the protocol last time, so hopefully, she gets that same three-drug cocktail again.

She nearly slipped in the tub yesterday.😲
I barely caught her—grabbed her so hard I think I left a bruise under her arm.🙄

Total chaos.🤷

If there’s any way to avoid the bathtub, do it. Honestly, just have her shower standing over a floor drain instead. You can grab a plastic stool, sit down, and get everything done right there. That’s how I handled my mom back when she could still stand on her own. We used to try putting her in the tub, but getting her out was a nightmare. Just line the area around the washing machine with some plastic sheeting or wrap the cabinets in tarp, and you're set. Afterward, you just sweep the water straight into the drain.
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1342 ·
Lawrence Rogers56 said:...

I am truly sorry for your loss.
Drew Nguyen47 Drew Nguyen47 Member
26 messages
joined Jun 2008
#1343 ·
reading all these posts.... Lawrence Rogers56 and jadetinker42, man, I really feel for you guys. It’s wild how fast this sickness can just hollow a person out in a matter of months. Honestly.... my dad was basically a beast too... 240 pounds and 6'4" (just six months ago).... now he's just.... hunched over, broken, terrified.... god, it breaks my heart 😢 😢 😢 😢
Elizabeth Collins60 Elizabeth Collins60 Member
32 messages
joined Jul 2007
#1344 ·
Greetings to all fellow warriors!
My heart goes out to everyone dealing with the loss of loved ones; at least we actually understand one another here.
My father’s condition has been catastrophic over the last ten days. He doesn't know anything anymore—he can't even speak a single sentence normally. He only recognizes my mother and me. He has no idea what time it is, what he’s eating, if he has even eaten, or how to ask for something as simple as a glass of water. Yet, despite this, he just talks and talks, rambling about nonsense that makes zero sense. He’s constantly trying to go somewhere; when we tell him he can't, he screams that we are harassing him. It’s horrific. I am at a total loss. He has about five or six tumors on his brain, each roughly an inch and a half in size, and it is honestly baffling to me how he keeps talking. He even has the energy to sit up. From what I've gathered, most others experience a sort of "dulling" or cognitive decline, but not him. He doesn't sleep at night, and rarely during the day, and when he does, his breathing is incredibly irregular. We can't leave him alone for even a second, and my mother is reaching her absolute breaking point. Does anyone have any advice on what to do? Thank God he isn't in physical pain, but it is killing me that he knows nothing... absolutely nothing... hugs to you all.
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1345 ·
Elizabeth Collins60 said:Hey everyone fighting the good fight!!!!
My heart goes out to everyone losing their loved ones; at least we actually understand each other here.
My dad’s last ten days have been a total nightmare. He’s lost everything—he can’t process anything, can't speak a single coherent sentence. He only recognizes me and my mom. He doesn't know what time it is, what he’s eating, if he’s even eaten, or how to ask for something as basic as a glass of water. Yet, despite all that, he just keeps rambling incessantly about things that make zero sense. He’s constantly trying to get up and go somewhere, and when we tell him he can't, he screams that we're harassing him. It's horrific. I am at a complete loss. He has about five or six brain metastases, each around two inches wide, and it's baffling to me how he still has the energy to keep talking. From what I've gathered, most people hit this stage of "dullness" or total cognitive shutdown, but he's different. He doesn't sleep at night, and rarely during the day, and when he does, his breathing is incredibly erratic. We can't leave him alone for a single second, and my mom is reaching her breaking point. Does anyone have any advice on what to do? Thank God he isn't in physical pain, but it's killing me that he knows nothing anymore... absolutely nothing... sending love to you all.

When you're dealing with brain issues, anything goes. The brain is essentially the control center for every single bodily function. All this chaos is happening because those metastases have likely hit specific centers, causing massive short circuits. He’s talking because his speech center is being stimulated; he’s breathing irregularly because the brain is firing off incorrect signals, even if there isn't an actual oxygen deficiency.
I don't really know what to tell you, other than I went through this exact same thing with my mother. That period didn't last forever, though unfortunately, it ended with her slipping into a complete vegetative state. Honestly, I would give anything right now just to hear her say one more thing, even if it was complete nonsense.
You will pull through, even when it feels like you've completely run out of steam. You'll find the strength simply out of pure, unadulterated love for that person. If you ever reach a point where you feel like you aren't providing the care he needs, or if you worry your mother is heading toward a total breakdown, seriously consider looking into hospice care. Eventually, he probably won't even recognize you, and at that point, moving him to a facility might be the best move, because your presence won't mean much to him personally anymore. No one has the right to judge you for that, not even yourself. Your devotion and love are beyond question.

I actually thought about this myself back when she could still walk, because let's be real, there was way more work involved then than it is now while she just lies there in a stupor. Still, my mom still recognizes me and reacts to me; she still gives me a tiny kiss when I lean in, even if it's barely perceptible. When I put our dog near her, she'll barely twitch her fingers or widen her eyes. I decided to lay the dog on her chest every day so she can pet him with her hands. I think it means a lot to her, even though the dog mostly avoids her since she's bedridden—he won't even come up to the bed, even though she's his owner. I honestly don't know what's bothering him😕 .
Elizabeth Collins60 Elizabeth Collins60 Member
32 messages
joined Jul 2007
#1346 ·
My mother and I have discussed the idea of assisted living, but even though she knows him better than anyone, we just can't bring ourselves to do it. I might be able to cope with the decision, but her? Even though
she understands that certain things are inevitable, she insists she could never forgive herself if we placed him there just to let him die.
It’s incredible how the exact same thing is happening with my dog. He and she were inseparable, but now that he's bedridden, she won't even go near him—even when he calls for her. "Puppy, puppy!" he begs, but nothing. She won't budge. It's only when I'm sitting by his side that she'll briefly squeeze in between us. He used to take her out on walks every single day, and now she just lies there sleeping; she's such a sweetheart. I don't know what's bothering her... I suppose these creatures feel things quite intensely.
As for his care, we truly provide everything possible. Mom, especially, jumps at his every move, doing everything in her power to make him comfortable. And then, when he snaps that we're just harassing him and won't leave him alone? That's what hurts. Most of the time, you know he isn't himself... but when it becomes a constant cycle, you eventually start to forget.
Laura Harris13 Laura Harris13 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jun 2008
#1347 ·
Hi there.

I find myself reading through all these stories—honestly, I’m not even sure why I do it sometimes—and I keep thinking that there comes a point where you just have to try and find some laughter and a way to actually live.
Emotional involvement is such a difficult thing to manage. The illness itself puts those of us close to the patient in this position where we feel an overwhelming urge to step in and fix things... but sometimes, there really isn't anything left to do except leave it in higher hands and accept how small and insignificant we truly are.
As strange as it might sound to some people here, death can sometimes be a relief. The shock is massive, of course—the grief, the loss, and all the exhausting, mundane logistics that follow—but reading these posts, I somehow feel a sense of peace knowing the old man has finally "gone." During that final stage, everything felt so incredibly dark and heavy that it was starting to take a real toll on my mother and all of us. It’s heartbreaking that only memories are left now, but it’s also a blessing; I honestly don't know how we would have handled it if this had dragged on for another year before reaching this conclusion.
And yet, we are all wired for survival and fighting.. we can't help but hold onto hope.

My dad was quite difficult to deal with after his diagnosis, and he only got harder as his condition worsened. I think, on one hand, he didn't want to burden anyone around him, and on the other, he needed a certain amount of isolation just to process everything in his own head. Plus, there's the fear involved. All of that combined creates a heavy atmosphere that I'm sure he found nearly impossible to communicate to us.

Regarding dogs, I remember reading or hearing somewhere that they—especially Black Labradors or Retrievers, the ones trained to sniff out bombs, drugs, or truffles—can actually scent or detect cancer in a person at a very early stage.
I wonder if that affects the dog?

Regardless, please don't forget yourselves. Don't forget the sunshine, the laughter, and life itself amidst all this darkness.
After all, we're all just passing through.

Best regards,
brightgardener8 brightgardener8 Active Member
157 messages
joined Jul 2007
#1348 ·
Elizabeth Collins60 said:My dad’s been doing absolutely terrible these last ten days; he’s completely lost his grip on reality...

Things haven't hit that critical breaking point for us yet, but I know exactly what you're talking about. We went through similar episodes with my mom, where she’d accuse us of starving her or trying to control her life and stop her from living. Of course, that was just her subjective perception of the mess her illness had made of things. Honestly, it's a small comfort knowing she isn't in physical pain and that she actually has NO clue how bad things really are (even if her insisting on doing stuff she physically can't do anymore drives us straight to the brink of insanity...). I’m stuck wondering how to explain to her that she simply can't do certain things without being totally harsh and making everything ten times worse. When I ask her if she feels like anything has changed in her life lately, she just shrugs and goes, "Nope." 😱 She’s talking about climbing ladders, vacuuming, or working in the garden, when in reality, she can barely stand up without wobbling; any kind of household appliance is basically an enemy to her now (she can't tell time, doesn't know how to use a remote or a cell phone, and we had to cut off her access to the savings account a long time ago...). Finding the right balance in all of this is incredibly tough.
Hang in there, everyone. Don't let it get to you.
John Chase6 John Chase6 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Jun 2007
#1349 ·
Hey everyone!
My heart goes out to anyone dealing with loss right now... honestly, sometimes I get this wave of anxiety just reading through all these posts... but I try to shake it off and just keep pushing forward.. anyway, this coming Wednesday is my sixth-to-last one in this cycle... and obviously, my only focus right now is making sure my WBC and platelet counts stay high enough to actually get the treatment... If God wills it, I'm heading to a clinic in Germany next Monday for intensive immunotherapy—I'm really pinning my hopes on that being the breakthrough I need...
Hang in there, everyone, and wish me luck... Grace Fowler
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1350 ·
Grace Fowler said:Hey everyone!
My heart goes out to anyone who has lost their loved ones... honestly, sometimes reading through all these stories gives me this heavy sense of anxiety... but I just push through it and keep moving forward. This coming Wednesday marks the penultimate session in my current cycle. Right now, my entire focus is strictly on keeping my white blood cell and platelet counts high enough to actually get through it. If God wills it, I’m heading over to a clinic in Germany next Monday for intensive immunotherapy—really hoping against hope that this will be the turning point we need.
Hang in there, everyone. Stay strong for me... Grace

Keep fighting that hard, you lioness👍. You are such an incredible example to all of us, showing exactly how much someone can endure. Because of that strength, I have zero doubt that this immunotherapy is going to yield nothing but positive results for you.
Don't be a stranger—check in whenever you feel up to it.
🙂
Harold Richardson4 Harold Richardson4 Member
16 messages
joined Nov 2007
#1351 ·
Grace Fowler said:Hello, everyone.
My deepest condolences to all those who have lost their loved ones... at times, though only occasionally, I feel a wave of anxiety reading through these posts... but somehow, I manage to push past that feeling and keep moving forward. This coming Wednesday marks the penultimate session in my current cycle. Naturally, my entire focus right now is simply ensuring my white blood cell and platelet counts stay high enough to proceed... If God wills it, I am traveling to a clinic in Germany this coming Monday for intensive immunotherapy—holding onto a strong hope that this might finally offer some relief...
Best wishes to you all, and please, lend me your strength... Grace

Dear, I have certain enzymes and injections left over from the treatment we received from our oncologist in Austria, along with some things my mother used to take. If you are interested, I would be more than happy to give them to you. Please, keep fighting, and if you want them, send me a private message.
Christian Wilson16 Christian Wilson16 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jan 2007
#1352 ·
Hello everyone.
I haven't been posting as frequently lately, mostly because I’ve begun to lose hope of discovering some breakthrough or a new medication that might actually make things easier for my grandfather. He is still on quite a heavy regimen; my heart just aches whenever I see him pull out that bag of pills to start his daily dosing. Lately, things have taken a turn for the worse—he's started coughing up blood, and the weather seems to be hitting him incredibly hard. His breathing has become labored. His doctor simply tells us that this is just how the process unfolds, which is devastating to hear.
At this stage, my prayers have shifted. I don't pray for a cure as much as I pray for his peace. He has become quite aggressive, pushing everyone away from him. He rejects any help or attention offered. While he remains relatively gentle with me and listens when I speak, he is being very difficult with my father and uncle, lashing out at them with harsh words. It feels to me like he’s trying to drive them away so they won't have to witness his suffering, but I can see how much it hurts my father to be treated this way. Watching the two of them struggle to find common ground is heartbreaking, and I feel helpless in trying to mediate. I wish there were something I could give him to soothe his spirit; right now, I'm just searching online for herbal teas that might offer some mental or emotional stability... but unfortunately, there isn't a pill for everything. 😢 How do you all cope with patients like this? What do you do when they completely stop cooperating? I feel stuck between being unable to provide actual help and being unable to simply stand by and watch. 😢
Richard Smith31 Richard Smith31 Member
14 messages
joined Oct 2006
#1353 ·
Grace Fowler said:Hey everyone!
My heart goes out to anyone who has lost their loved ones... honestly, sometimes I get this wave of anxiety just reading through all these posts... but I manage to push through it and keep moving forward. This coming Wednesday is my sixth-to-last in this cycle... at this stage, my only focus is making sure my WBC and platelet counts stay high enough so I can actually get the treatment... If God wills it, I’m heading to a clinic in Germany next Monday for intensive immunotherapy—I'm holding onto a lot of hope that this will finally make a difference...
Best to you all, wish me luck... Grace

If you want, send me a PM letting me know where in Germany you'll be; if you're nearby, maybe I can stop by to visit or see if there's any way I can help.🤷
I'd really appreciate that.🙂
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1354 ·
Carol Ramirez said:Hey everyone.
I’m not posting nearly as much lately because, honestly, I’ve lost hope of finding some miracle cure that would actually make Grandpa feel better. He’s still juggling a massive handful of medications; it breaks my heart every time he pulls out that plastic baggie to start sorting his doses. He’s started coughing up blood now, too. Time is just being brutal to him, and his breathing is getting so difficult... According to his doctor, we just have to let nature take its course, unfortunately.
I don't pray for his recovery as much as I pray for his peace now. He’s become incredibly aggressive, pushing everyone away. He rejects help, he rejects attention. He’s still decent with me—he listens, he rarely loses his temper—but he’s making life miserable for my dad and my uncle. He spits such venom at them. It feels like he’s trying to force them away so they don't have to witness his suffering, but I see how much it hurts my dad, watching him struggle like this, and I have no idea how to bridge that gap. I wish I could give Grandpa something to calm him down, but right now I’m just scouring the internet for herbal teas that might stabilize his mental state... But there isn't a pill for everything. 😢 How do you handle patients like this? What do you do when they just stop cooperating? I feel stuck between being unable to help and being unable to just sit there and watch. 😢

I’m so sorry, Carol Ramirez.😢 I was really starting to feel optimistic, thinking he was winning this fight.
Your dad and uncle need to realize that when Grandpa snaps, it’s the disease talking, not him. They just have to accept that and stay by his side. Even though he’s sick, he’s still mostly himself, and he needs to be given the dignity of making his own choices. Sit him down for an open, warm conversation. Ask him what he wants, and tell him that whatever he decides, you will respect his wishes. There’s nothing else you can do.
Talk to his doctor about potential sedative medications. As far as natural options go, Valerian is usually best for calming nerves, and Hawthorn tea is great for the heart.
Hang in there and keep being brave. Just remember that your grandpa is still here largely because of your incredible strength and support. You are a fighter. People with his diagnosis often only have a few months left, yet he’s still fighting, and who knows, maybe things will turn around again. There are days when you feel totally lost and like everything is spiraling, and then suddenly, things shift. Put your faith in God's providence.🙂
mistyranger4 mistyranger4 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jun 2007
#1355 ·
Hey everyone. Even though my husband isn't fighting cancer, I still find myself stumbling upon so much advice that helps navigate his illness. He’s actually battling ALS—a brutal neuromuscular disease—and unfortunately, things have been taking a turn for the worse lately. To make matters more complicated, it’s just the two of us, and since he’s become completely immobile, leaving him alone to go to work is getting harder and harder every day. So, I wanted to reach out and ask for some advice. Does anyone know how much leave you can actually take to care for a family member? I was browsing the Medicare website and found this:
The right to wage compensation during sick leave for caring for an insured person—a spouse living in the same household—lasts for a maximum of 15 working days for each established illness.
After that, I gave Medicare a call to see about extending my leave, but I didn't get a straight answer. They just wouldn't tell me if, after those initial 15 days, I'd be eligible for more leave next month or even further down the road. They just kept repeating that I could use those 15 days while the illness lasts, without ever clarifying what happens next. Has anyone here dealt with this before? I mean... I've just used those first few days for the first time, and I'm trying to figure out the timeframe for when I can use them again. I'll try to stretch things out by using some vacation time and maybe some unpaid leave... but what comes after that? Please, if anyone has been in a similar spot, help me out and let me know what my rights are!
crimsonmason44 crimsonmason44 Member
24 messages
joined Sep 2007
#1356 ·
Hey everyone, I could really use some tips on how to jumpstart an appetite after chemo...🤷 My dad’s barely touching his food, and it’s already been a week since his last session.😢 I know this topic has probably been covered a thousand times on here, but honestly, I just don't have the bandwidth to go digging through old threads right now. He’s finished two cycles and is heading in for his first round of follow-up tests since the diagnosis, so I’ll keep you all posted on how things are looking.
Thanks, guys—hang in there.🙂
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1357 ·
crimsonmason44 said:Guys, I really need some advice on how to jumpstart an appetite after chemo..🤷 My dad can barely touch his food, and it’s been a week since his last treatment.😢 I know this topic has been covered extensively on here before, but honestly, I just don't have the bandwidth to dig through old threads right now. He’s finished two cycles and is heading into his first round of diagnostic tests following the initial diagnosis. I'll keep you all posted on how things progress..
Thanks everyone, hang in there,🙂

Pikovit👍.
If he still can't manage to eat, ask the oncologist for a prescription for some Procters & Gamble or Abbott Laboratories nutritional shakes. A single carton acts as a full meal because they're packed with all the essential nutrients he needs.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#1358 ·
I have a question. My mom has been coughing non-stop for about a month now. She’s weakened significantly and has lost 15 pounds. She can’t swallow normally because she says her lungs hurt, and it feels like everything she eats or drinks just gets stuck in her throat. She’s heading to the hospital tomorrow for an exam, and I’m honestly terrified that it might be the worst-case scenario. She’s convinced they’re going to keep her admitted...

It all started a little over a month ago. First I got sick, then my dad, and then my mom. Dad and I bounced back after a few days, but she’s still struggling. She’s also incredibly anxious and irritable, so we end up bickering constantly despite everything else going on...

Is there any chance this isn't cancer? Could it be something like bronchitis or something similar? About two years ago, she went through something almost identical, though it didn't seem to last quite this long. We thought it would pass on its own, so she tried honey, herbal teas, using her inhaler, and various cough drops...

I’ve been reading some stories here, and it really hits home—you don't truly understand what it's like until you're right in the middle of it. Over the last few years, I’ve crossed paths with several people battling cancer; a friend of mine lost her dad to it last year, and my godmother’s husband passed away too. I felt for them at the time, obviously, but only now am I starting to realize how heavy it actually feels for those going through it...

That’s why I want to send so much strength to everyone out there facing whatever lies ahead. Please, keep holding onto hope. And to those who have already lost loved ones, you have my deepest, most sincere condolences.
Angela Wright Angela Wright RegularOP
731 messages
joined Feb 2007
#1359 ·
@

It doesn't necessarily have to be cancer. In my opinion, it’s much more likely that because she was already under the weather before—and it looks like she didn't quite bounce back properly—some minor inflammation or a virus spiraled into a more serious case of bronchitis or pneumonia. It could even be asthma. Lung pain is a very classic symptom of an asthma attack.
I know you're scared; seeing someone you love struggling like this is never easy, but honestly, the best thing you can do is stay calm until the tests come back and you actually know what you're dealing with. If, God forbid, it turns out to be something worse, there will be a way to face that too.
Roger Hall15 Roger Hall15 Active Member
107 messages
joined Jul 2003
#1360 ·
mistyranger4 said:Hey everyone, even though my husband isn't fighting cancer, I still find myself stumbling upon a lot of advice that actually helps navigate his illness. He’s dealing with ALS, a really brutal neuromuscular disease, and unfortunately, things have just been going downhill lately. To make matters worse, it’s just the two of us, and as much as I want to keep working, leaving him alone is becoming increasingly difficult because he’s lost so much mobility. I was hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction regarding caregiver leave. I was browsing the Medicare website earlier and found this:
When it comes to getting paid while you're out taking care of someone, like a spouse you actually live with, the rules are pretty straightforward—you can claim salary benefits for up to 15 working days for each specific illness that gets verified.
So, I gave Medicare a call to figure out how much more sick leave I can take, and honestly, I didn't get anything remotely helpful out of them. They just wouldn't give me a straight answer regarding whether I’ll be eligible for more leave to care for my husband next month or even further down the road. Instead of actually clarifying things, they just kept repeating that as long as the illness is ongoing, I can use those initial 15 days, but they refuse to explain what happens after that window closes. Has anyone else dealt with this kind of runaround? This is the first time I've ever had to use these days, and I'm trying to plan ahead. For now, I'll try to stretch things out by using some vacation time and maybe a bit of unpaid leave, but I'm worried about what comes after that. If anyone has been stuck in this exact same situation, please help me out and let me know what my actual rights are.


I honestly think you’re going to run into a massive wall trying to manage this using just vacation days, sick leave, or unpaid time off. It's just not sustainable. If I were in your shoes, I’d head straight to your primary care physician and ask them to draft a formal recommendation for home health care services. You can often get some coverage through Medicare, or you could look into private agencies—everything is negotiable depending on what kind of specific help you actually need. My mom has a sister who comes by three times a week, but for the daily assistance, we pay out of pocket on an hourly basis. We managed to coordinate things so that the caregiver's shift covers half the day, which basically means she isn't left alone for more than about three hours at a time.
It might not be a bad idea to just start here, honestly; once you get moving, the information tends to find its way to you on its own.

These kinds of problems are practically impossible to solve. You end up with absolutely nothing if you lose your job, and once those first fifteen days slip by, what are you even supposed to do then? It’s a nightmare because people dealing with serious illnesses need constant care every single day—everything from showering and washing to feeding them, changing diapers, helping with exercises, or whatever else the situation demands.
Personally, having him around during the day was an absolute lifesaver, I mean that quite literally. Whether he was tackling chores around the house or just making sure my mom had a hot lunch waiting for her—with someone actually sitting there watching over her while she ate—it made everything so much easier.😁 She doesn't usually get involved when it comes to my mother, but there have been those awkward, messy situations where she ended up stepping in just to smooth things over.🙄

Your doctor is going to be the one to tell you whether what you need is a registered nurse or just some other kind of home health assistance. I’ll be the first to admit that when I was going through this, I was pretty clueless and had my fair share of prejudices about the whole thing. There really is help available, so honestly, just go talk to your doctor first and ask around. Take whatever services they offer you initially; you can always sit down with the caregiver once they arrive and figure out a routine that actually works for you and your husband. For instance, my mom was offered help with bathing, and we just told them thanks and took it.😁 They basically swapped out her physical therapy sessions because she refuses to let anyone touch her except me, which honestly isn't surprising. When you're dealing with those review boards, you have to realize they're filled with people who—God help us—will make you brace yourself for all sorts of absolute nonsense and insulting approvals. You can't really take it personally, though; that’s just how the system is built, and there’s no way to overhaul it from the outside. It’s going to require a massive amount of patience and nerves of steel, but once you get past the bureaucracy, the support available is actually quite substantial.

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