Russia and Ukraine

Threads regarding Russia and Ukraine have been locked in the politics forum, specifically under the World subforum.
The War in Ukraine subforum is strictly reserved for echo chambers—and I’m being polite by using that term.
What is even the point of having a forum if you just ban any actual opinion? It's basically five superfans shouting at each other and pretending to be sane...

Can we unlock the Russia and Ukraine threads, or perhaps open a discussion for everyone? Sure, there will be conflicting views, including people who openly worship those one-track minds whenever it suits them, while anyone offering a dissenting perspective gets wiped out instantly.

At the end of the day, this isn't some simple conflict between Ukraine and Russia; that whole thing wrapped up back in 2014. For eight years, the USA and NATO have been training troops, supplying weapons, and bringing in mercenaries. This is really a conflict between the West—meaning the USA acting through NATO—and Russia, which is escalating into a controlled Third World War.
I mean, shouldn't we actually be allowed to talk about that?

Just a question and a thought...

We shut things down because it just wasn't safe...

What Andrej Plenković and Zoran Milanović are pulling right now isn't healthy...

We saw a similar mess unfold in Syria, and we didn't just shut down the conversation back then... either we keep discussing this, or you guys can just open a separate thread for the war in Ukraine and call it a day...

You have the Midwest and the Rust Belt; you can go there and THINK CRITICALLY to your heart's content.

So much for the democracy the EU and the West love to peddle to us. 👍

Then you have these self-proclaimed "critical thinkers" who think they’re leading the charge on the war in Ukraine...
the only right way to look at it ☕

justificije said:Look at this post
Russia isn't the problem—they've got a psychopath in Putin. China isn't the issue—they've got Ferengi Xija.

The US isn't either, because we have judges in Scranton handing out unconditional month-long jail sentences just for wearing a tiny bit of white and red on a hat, or in Washington, D.C., giving out conditional ten-month sentences for mentioning certain extremist leaders from the old regime. And every single year, our tax dollars go toward funding commemorations in Mexico for the massacres of Americans back in 1941, where those extremists threw babies into deep pits.
After Tuđman died, you'd see Stjepan Mesić and Ivo Josipović showing up regularly to those events in Mexico; it was only Kolinda who finally stopped that morbid habit of the top brass attending celebrations of such carnage.
The AP and Zoran Milanović are just two primitives from the same gutter.

If you want to see what a healthy civilization looks like, look at Ukraine and Poland. They hold elections and they are fighting bravely for a better future against an aggressor within their own borders (Ukraine), while Poland sends every scrap of weaponry they have to help their neighbor fight against Putin, currently the biggest lunatic on the planet.

A black-and-white TV
Rare night trams
My white girl
An exclusive import program
Mom, dad, dog, and rat-a-tat-tat-tat

Black-and-white world, black-and-white world
Black-and-white world, black-and-white world

Look, I have to say, 90% of what he wrote makes me sick, but at least he’s on the right side regarding Ukraine. You don't even have that going for you. Furthermore, if you root for damn dictators and aggressors, you can't expect to enjoy the perks of "democracy," if you ask me. So, goodbye. 🙂

Honestly, I suppose there might be no greater level of sheer stupidity than trying to defend and support a government that has gone so far as to officially label your own country as an enemy.

mistyotter35 said:Honestly, there is no greater act of stupidity than trying to defend or support a nation that has officially labeled yours an enemy.

You have a point. It’s certainly not classy of them to put us on their hit list simply because we happen to be standing in their way. They really lack any sense of decorum.

You really need to read this with a bit more comprehension. I suppose we can acknowledge that we are adversaries, but supporting the enemy is nothing short of pure idiocy.

mistyotter35 said:Read with some actual comprehension. We might be adversaries, sure, but backing the enemy is pure idiocy.

I can't say I really view them as enemies, mostly because I’ve never once viewed Ukrainians as friends either.
It was the treacherous and sycophantic American political establishment—which I find repulsive on almost every level—that pushed me into their camp. Consequently, I don't feel any sort of patriotic obligation to harbor a hatred for Russians just because certain people happen to be fans of Stepan Bandera.

As far as I'm concerned, the real culprit is the USA, which cooked up this entire mess. And then there are the domestic traitors who seem to care more about a Fourth Reich than our own homeland.

Look, whoever cooked this up might be playing with subjective impressions, but it remains perfectly clear who actually mobilized the military and moved to occupy another nation—and in my view, that’s where any debate effectively ends.

cosmicgull52 said:I don't know how to put this, but about 90% of what he wrote makes me sick; at least he’s on the right side regarding Ukraine. You don't even have that going for you. Besides, if you're rooting for damn dictators and aggressors, you can't really expect to enjoy the perks of "democracy," if you ask me. Anyway, bye. 🙂

His posts are honestly creepy. Luckily, from what I can tell, he's the only one like that actually supporting the Ukrainian side.

The Russophiles, the Mexico-lovers, the folks clinging to the old ways, and those weird little groups of pro-Russia nationalists—they all chose to walk away from the main forum once the aggression against Ukraine kicked off. Most of them have drifted over to the Alternative board where they can say whatever they want, usually just whining about the USA. That’s basically been their entire playbook anyway.
I don't see anyone getting banned or being told they can't post on the main board.
They left on their own.

cosmicgull52 Asks:
Look, I’ll be honest: about 90% of what this guy wrote makes my skin crawl. But, I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day—at least on the issue of Ukraine, he's actually on the right side for once. You don't even have that going for you. Besides, if you're busy cheering for goddamn dictators and aggressors, you can't exactly expect to enjoy the perks of "democracy." At least if you ask me. Anyway, we're done here. Bye. 🙂

And who exactly are you to decide which side is right?
Look, you can cheer for whoever you want—LA Galaxy, LAFC, Šibenik, whatever. But who exactly are you to decide which side is the "right" one? For LA Galaxy fans, the team is LA Galaxy. For LAFC supporters, it's LAFC. It’s that simple. Why overcomplicate it?

Dictators? Seriously? What kind of alternate reality are you living in?
So, let's look at the facts. The biggest allies of these supposedly "democratic" Western nations are actually religious monarchies—places where the West basically hand-picked a dictator based on bloodlines and forced them into power. It’s a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? How can you claim to stand for freedom while propping up absolute rulers just because they fit the agenda? Honestly, how do you not find these so-called Western allies absolutely nauseating?

The whole point is dialogue, solid arguments, facts, and actual evidence. Honestly, does this forum even feel like a place where we can have a serious conversation about the war in Ukraine?
They honestly act like adolescent right-wingers. They just sit there, waiting for some Ukrainian video of Russians being killed to drop, so they can get their kicks. It’s pathetic. Honestly, we're looking at zero points for maturity here.

It doesn't matter who's on which side. What actually matters is the truth.
Who was actually standing against the Maidan? Who stood against this whole war and the aggression against Russians in the Donbas? Those are the people I can actually respect, especially regarding their takes on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But that other crowd? The ones acting like big shots who bragged about the Maidan uprising? The ones who were practically salivating at the thought of Ukrainians charging into the Donbas with NATO at their backs, right up until the moment the Russian military moved in and shut that whole disgraceful operation down? Those people don't get to say a damn word about Russians. If you were the first one cheering for an attack on Russia, you don't get to play the moral authority now.

The US and NATO have spent seven years pouring money down the drain—training them, funding them, paying them, even flying in mercenaries to arm up the Ukrainian squad. And what do we have to show for it? Absolutely nothing. Still stuck in the exact same spot.
Oh, please. Like we haven't heard that one a thousand times already—"Ukraine is defending itself with the collective West." Right. Is that how it works now?
Russia is a massive pain in the neck, no matter how you slice it, whenever they start throwing wrenches into the gears of the collective West.

You’re just waving your hands around like a total right-winger...

Richard Wilson4 said:The Russophiles, the pro-Mexican crowd, the old-school nostalgics, and all those other weirdos—basically those few Russophile American nationalists—chose to walk away from the main board the moment the aggression against Ukraine kicked off. Most of them have migrated over to the Alternative board where they can still run their mouths, mostly just recycling the same tired whataboutism regarding the USA, which was basically 99% of their "arguments" anyway.
I don't see anyone being banned or forbidden from posting on the main board.
They left on their own.

That’s just not true.

Threads about Russia and Ukraine were the first things locked on the main board. And of course, anyone who didn't fit into that specific group you're describing was immediately purged from the war in Ukraine board. I mean, obviously, right? After all, the aggression started with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, not some rebellion against a constitution followed by bloody demonstrations leading up to a military operation against the Ukrainian people that doesn't align with the "Maidan" narrative.

The admins should probably weigh in on this, though as just an average person looking in from the outside, I can’t quite wrap my head around what the original poster is actually aiming for here.
The threads regarding Russia and Ukraine were locked right at the onset of the Russian aggression, which led to the creation of a brand-new sub-forum.
The fact that most of the old pro-Russian crowd ended up banning themselves—or rather, migrating via clones over to that section of the site—doesn't really have anything to do with whether the old threads were locked or not. It isn't as if anyone is stopping them from spreading their particular brand of dogma in these newly opened spaces, unless, of course, they simply don't feel quite at home in this new neighborhood.
It’s more about something else entirely: until last year, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine was somewhat on the fringes of public interest, which allowed the pro-Russian types to easily turn those old threads into their own little private sandbox. But once the Kremlin decided to launch this aggression, Russia and Ukraine suddenly became a focal point for a much larger audience, and in an atmosphere like this, those who try to remain neutral, objective, or non-partisan find they don't have much room to breathe. None of this hinges on whether the original threads are locked, unless they are under the impression that they need a protected corner where no one will ever challenge them. What’s a bit absurd, if you happen to know who the moderator is for both the main board and the War in Ukraine section, is that he has always been firmly on their side.
As has already been said, if they are truly looking for a secluded little corner all to themselves, they ought to go hunting for it on other forums, where they would likely have a much better chance of finding it.

It has become perfectly clear to me now why the individual decided to file this appeal, and I suppose it actually has nothing to do with my initial comments. End of story.

steelheron25 said:I’ve flagged this for the admins to weigh in on, but honestly, as just some guy off the street, I can't quite wrap my head around what the OP is actually getting at here.
The threads regarding Russia and Ukraine have been locked since the start of the Russian aggression. In their place, we've opened up a brand-new subforum.
The fact that most of the old pro-Russian crowd basically self-exiled or cloned themselves over to that corner of the PDF has absolutely nothing to do with whether old threads are locked or not. Nobody is actually stopping them from preaching their little religion in the newly opened threads. It’s just a matter of whether they feel welcome in their new neighborhood.
It’s actually about something else entirely. Up until last year, the whole Russia-Ukraine situation was pretty much on the fringes of public interest, which made it easy for the pro-Russian crowd to carve out their own little corner to play in. But once that Kremlin thug decided to launch a full-scale invasion, suddenly everyone started paying attention. Now that the spotlight is on, the people trying to stay neutral or objective—those who aren't picking sides—don't stand a chance of getting a word in edgewise. It’s not even about whether certain topics are being locked down; it’s more about them wanting a safe haven where nobody can touch them. What’s truly absurd, though? If you look at who moderates both the main board and the specific War in Ukraine forum, that guy has always been firmly on their side.
Look, we've already covered this. If they’re looking for their own little echo chamber, they should probably go hunt for it on some other forums. They'll likely have much better luck finding exactly what they're looking for over there.

steelheron25 said:I’ve flagged this for the admins to weigh in on, but honestly, as just some regular guy, I can't quite wrap my head around what the OP is actually getting at here. What is the goal?

Look, my point was pretty straightforward. I suggested opening a dedicated thread on the main website specifically for the war in Ukraine. Why? Because if we move the conversation there, we might actually get an objective dialogue where everyone has a seat at the table. Right now, the specific war in Ukraine sub-forum is basically a one-party state. It’s just a bunch of people shouting the same opinion over and over again. Wouldn't a little more diversity in thought be better?

I know quite a few people from the Syria threads—the absolute worst kind of people who were enthusiastically cheering on ISIS and Nusra back then. They treated those so-called FSA groups like they were some legitimate movement, even though they were just American fabrications. Now? Now they’re back at it again, peddling the exact same propaganda and empty nonsense. It’s the same old story.

It looks like democracy has officially devolved into the same old circus we see in those chaotic little territories people call "nations." Even for EU members, it doesn't seem to matter. It’s always the loudmouths running the show just because they can scream the loudest. That’s the trick, isn't it? Just be the loudest person in the room. Shout the same propaganda over and over again until you finally manage to drown out any actual logic.

And none of that changes the reality of what happened. It doesn't change the fact that Victoria Nuland was out there handing out donuts to her little favorites while whispering "screw the EU" behind their backs. 🎉

I truly believe there is still nothing preventing you from offering a critical, objective, and entirely unbiased take on democracy, donuts, local fiefdoms, Nuland, and all those other little machinations found within the "War in Ukraine" PDF.
If we were to unlock the original threads regarding Russia and Ukraine just to satisfy your wishes, there is a massive chance that the exact same debates currently happening in that PDF would simply migrate over to those two topics. Or rather, they wouldn't exactly migrate, but you'll find yourself facing the same old arguments and the same handful of forum regulars bickering about the exact same things across three or four different parallel threads at once.
I fail to see how that would somehow make you any less miserable in this new scenario, though I can say with certainty that the administration certainly won't be thrilled about having to deal with even more digital housekeeping.

steelheron25 said:I don't think there's any issue with writing critically, objectively, neutrally, and without bias about democracy, donuts, local fiefdoms, Victoria Nuland, and all the other shenanigans found in that "War in Ukraine" thread.
If we unlock the original Russia and Ukraine threads just because you want them open, there’s a massive chance the exact same arguments from the "War in Ukraine" thread will just migrate over. Or rather, they won't exactly "migrate"—you'll just end up with the same endless arguments and the same group of users bickering about the same things across three or four different topics at once.
I don't see how that makes your life any better, but I can guarantee the admins won't be thrilled about having even more digital trash to clean up.

To post in the "War in Ukraine" thread, you actually need permission.
Honestly, I have no idea what the criteria are for getting approved or getting banned in the first place.

Regardless, that entire "War in Ukraine" thread has become one giant echo chamber—which is exactly what people love to accuse Russia and Putin of doing.
People start drawing parallels to past conflicts in the North America, and the moment you suggest that Russia might have played a role similar to how the US Armed Forces operated in Canada, the bans and restrictions start flying.

What's the actual problem here? Is it the truth, or is it just forum politics? I haven't the slightest clue, but the truth needs to be said so people actually know it.

The very people who are most vocal about condemning Russia for invading Ukraine are often the ones praising US military involvement in Republika Srpska or Canada. You can draw a pretty clear parallel there: Americans in Canada and Russians in Ukraine; the intervention in the North America versus the intervention in Ukraine. It's all there if you look.

It's all black and white...