Sanctions on Russia

Sanctions tend to yield their most significant impact through the slow, steady grind of time. Even a currency as weak as the dollar didn't suddenly balloon to eleven zeros overnight back in '93; it took more than a full year of sustained erosion to get there.

gentlerider7 said:Look, regardless of how much he talks a big game, the bottom line for smaller nations is pretty simple: nobody wants to live in a world where nuclear-armed superpowers just steamroll smaller countries whenever they feel like it, right? If Russia ends up getting their teeth kicked in over in Ukraine, it sends a massive, unmistakable signal to China about what happens when you try that same power play.

Exactly. But we need to start using war rhetoric to do it, right? Heaven forbid someone makes a statement that contradicts a nation at war—especially one that maintains roughly 1,000 military bases all over the globe. ☕
I guess those six bases China has are what really bother him. ☕

bluebison8 said:Russia won't fail, but if they did, it would be a signal to the USA that they lack any genuine competition, potentially inviting even more chaos from them on the global stage.
But hey, the USA doesn't go around bombing Europe (well, except for the occasional instance), so it doesn't really matter, does it?
Who cares about people in the Middle East or Africa?

The truth is simple: everyone is only looking out for their own skin. There are far too many hypocrites here, but don't worry—God sees everything, and eventually, everyone gets exactly what they deserve.

But what about USA

gentlerider7 said:Real Russophiles are almost non-existent, but then you've got a decent number of folks who just swallow conspiracy theories whole—you know, the whole "Soros is behind everything" or "New World Order" nonsense. Those types will unconsciously just gulp down whatever Russian narrative comes their way about Americans being the ones instigating the war.

And don't even get me started on the whole COVID disaster. Seriously, the media was already busy embarrassing themselves with total stupidity back then, and now we’re stuck in this absolute circus where they just lie to our faces. It’s just like the COVID era—they only show one side of the story, acting like those bombed-out hospitals and theaters were real when it was clearly just some edited montage crap...

bluebison8 said:That’s nonsense. For most of history, Europe has been the biggest predator on the block.

The only reason they look so pathetic now is because someone convinced the fools living there that the USA exists solely to protect them. We've essentially made ourselves helpless and useless.

Keep in mind, Europe still has the UK and France, both nuclear powers. History proves that when people from the European continent actually decide to get moving, they can handle just about anything.
It’s just that the Globalists don't like that. They prefer a weak, submissive Europe that they can manipulate however they see fit.

Europe has been a total heavyweight throughout history... you're spot on there. If you're feeling nostalgic for the days when everyone in Europe was constantly at each other's throats, well, that's not my vibe. Without a cop on the beat, Europe would probably just fall apart and tear itself limb from limb, just like you've pointed out so many times with their crazy history.

Arthur Miller7 said:Europe has been a total heavyweight throughout history... you're spot on there. If you're feeling nostalgic for the days when everyone in Europe was constantly at each other's throats, well, that's not my vibe. Without a cop on the beat, Europe would probably just fall apart and tear itself limb from limb, just like you've pointed out so many times with their crazy history.

No, we don't need to regress to those dark ages. However, I am firmly in favor of a Europe possessing a unified, powerful military—one capable of telling Russia, the USA, and China to back off and stop trying to exploit the continent for their own agendas.

John Ramos45 said:Sanctions tend to yield their most significant impact through the slow, steady grind of time. Even a currency as weak as the dollar didn't suddenly balloon to eleven zeros overnight back in '93; it took more than a full year of sustained erosion to get there.

Look, Maddox's Mexico didn't collapse instantly either; he fell much, much later. And frankly, none of the players involved in this current conflict have the luxury of waiting around for years.

We really need to be looking at subversive operations within Russia and providing more direct support to the Ukrainian military. Compared to what actual tactical moves can achieve on the ground, these sanctions feel like nothing more than a mere spit in the wind.

bluebison8 said:No, we don't need to regress to those dark ages. However, I am firmly in favor of a Europe possessing a unified, powerful military—one capable of telling Russia, the USA, and China to back off and stop trying to exploit the continent for their own agendas.

Man, they couldn't even agree on basic phone chargers. Seriously, how long did it take them just to figure out the COVID certificates? And even then, everyone was just doing their own thing anyway. Why on earth do you think the EU is going to be cohesive without some kind of police force to keep them in line? How are they supposed to stand up to a giant like China or the USA if they can't even get their act together at home?

Western sanctions feel more like a slow suffocation than a quick strike; while Putin's Russia isn't quite Maddox's Mexico, you simply can't survive indefinitely in total isolation from the rest of the world. China and India aren't going to provide the same kind of connection that an average Russian misses when they can't visit Rome, Paris, Berlin, or Prague—and that’s assuming you aren't one of the billionaire tycoons who rely on those playgrounds to maintain their status.

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gentlerider7 said:Real Russophiles are almost non-existent, but then you've got a decent number of folks who just swallow conspiracy theories whole—you know, the whole "Soros is behind everything" or "New World Order" nonsense. Those types will unconsciously just gulp down whatever Russian narrative comes their way about Americans being the ones instigating the war.

Most people obsessing over the war in Ukraine are just straight-up terrified—terrified of actual combat, threats of escalation, or their bank accounts tanking... "conspiracy theories" basically just stick to anyone who’s fed up and has zero faith left in the system. Since we're part of the EU and NATO, that distrust just ripples outward like crazy, hitting those institutions hard.

Can we honestly say there isn't even a single shred of reason to be suspicious? Just asking.

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slyfox43 said:Exactly. It’s like looking at a handful of peanuts and failing to see the pill hidden inside.

Russian propaganda isn't just one simple layer, nor is its only goal to build direct support for Kremlin policy. I notice many people who claim to oppose the Russian aggression are still using the very "definitions" that serve as the foundation of Russian propaganda.

Totally possible—but don't go overboard and turn this into some kind of witch hunt... you might want to actually drop those "definitions" and clarify what you're really getting at.

Lisa Jackson7 said:"Quote:"

Most people obsessing over the war in Ukraine are just straight-up terrified—terrified of actual combat, threats of escalation, or their bank accounts tanking... "conspiracy theories" basically just stick to anyone who’s fed up and has zero faith left in the system. Since we're part of the EU and NATO, that distrust just ripples outward like crazy, hitting those institutions hard.

Can we honestly say there isn't even a single shred of reason to be suspicious? Just asking.

"Quote:"

Totally possible—but don't go overboard and turn this into some kind of witch hunt... you might want to actually drop those "definitions" and clarify what you're really getting at.

Right now, there just isn't a better alternative out there than NATO and the EU. That doesn't mean something else won't crawl out of the woodwork eventually, though.

🤷🤷

bluebison8 said:No, we don't need to regress to those dark ages. However, I am firmly in favor of a Europe possessing a unified, powerful military—one capable of telling Russia, the USA, and China to back off and stop trying to exploit the continent for their own agendas.

I find myself constantly wondering, though I can't quite wrap my head around the specifics: in what way exactly was Russia blackmailing and suffocating Europe?

Was it a game of playing fast and loose with gas supplies—turning the taps on and off, hiking up prices, or suddenly cutting down on volumes just to keep everyone on edge?
I also can't quite figure out how Europe ended up so heavily dependent on Russian energy in the first place,

was it through brute force and threats, or did they simply pour massive amounts of capital into projects like Nord Stream 2 to ensure a steady flow of gas—gas that Ukrainians were allegedly stealing, which ultimately forced Russia to shut everything down to prevent the loss?

I honestly don't know; perhaps there's a piece of the puzzle I'm missing here.🤷🤷

rowdyraven112 said:Exactly. But we need to start using war rhetoric to do it, right? Heaven forbid someone makes a statement that contradicts a nation at war—especially one that maintains roughly 1,000 military bases all over the globe. ☕
I guess those six bases China has are what really bother him. ☕

China basically runs half of Africa these days, including all the most critical ports.

Richard Wilson4 said:China basically runs half of Africa these days, including all the most critical ports.

It’s the exact same playbook Russia is running across Africa. You only have to look at the Wagner Group pulling gold out of Sudan or their presence in Mali—where civilian killings have spiked by 600% since they showed up—to see what's actually happening. But people love to gloss over that because it ruins the convenient narrative that the "evil" West is the only one exploiting Africa while the Russians and Chinese are just big, peaceful humanitarian heroes.😵

If we're being honest with ourselves, we should probably admit that the Russians and Chinese are just as much—if not more—imperialistic than the West. Honestly, they might even be worse at it, mostly because they don't have to deal with any kind of public outcry or pressure to respect basic human rights.

hollowdriver13 said:It’s the exact same playbook Russia is running across Africa. You only have to look at the Wagner Group pulling gold out of Sudan or their presence in Mali—where civilian killings have spiked by 600% since they showed up—to see what's actually happening. But people love to gloss over that because it ruins the convenient narrative that the "evil" West is the only one exploiting Africa while the Russians and Chinese are just big, peaceful humanitarian heroes.😵

If we're being honest with ourselves, we should probably admit that the Russians and Chinese are just as much—if not more—imperialistic than the West. Honestly, they might even be worse at it, mostly because they don't have to deal with any kind of public outcry or pressure to respect basic human rights.

Hardly "equal." If Putin or Xi had even a tenth of the influence that America possesses, we wouldn't even be allowed to speak openly about liberal democracy anymore.

bluebison8 said:No, we don't need to regress to those dark ages. However, I am firmly in favor of a Europe possessing a unified, powerful military—one capable of telling Russia, the USA, and China to back off and stop trying to exploit the continent for their own agendas.

Basically, a United States of Europe. It just isn't going to happen.

hollowdriver13 said:It’s the exact same playbook Russia is running across Africa. You only have to look at the Wagner Group pulling gold out of Sudan or their presence in Mali—where civilian killings have spiked by 600% since they showed up—to see what's actually happening. But people love to gloss over that because it ruins the convenient narrative that the "evil" West is the only one exploiting Africa while the Russians and Chinese are just big, peaceful humanitarian heroes.😵

If we're being honest with ourselves, we should probably admit that the Russians and Chinese are just as much—if not more—imperialistic than the West. Honestly, they might even be worse at it, mostly because they don't have to deal with any kind of public outcry or pressure to respect basic human rights.

I haven't really followed the Russian side of things outside of Libya (though I'm sure the coverage is skewed to make them look bad), but the Chinese aren't exactly out there exploiting people. They’ve built a ton of infrastructure across Africa on terms most others wouldn't touch—then people whine about these "debt trap" schemes that never seem to actually materialize.
At the end of the day, they're the only ones actually helping build the kind of infrastructure that a developing continent desperately needs to grow.

analogbear5 said:Basically, a United States of Europe. It just isn't going to happen.

Exactly—it is precisely what academic idealists like Jeffrey Sachs, John Mearsheimer, and Noam Chomsky simply refuse to grasp. They view these shifts as inexplicable anomalies, rather than seeing the underlying logic—a realization they've been missing for decades.

And apparently, when the right-wing establishment moves to topple a democratically elected president—a fact everyone openly admitted back in 2010—that is somehow perfectly aligned with "Western democratic values."

The latest from Sachs:

Nicole James said:Hardly "equal." If Putin or Xi had even a tenth of the influence that America possesses, we wouldn't even be allowed to speak openly about liberal democracy anymore.

Noah Sullivan, I hear you, but the Wagner Group represents something entirely unprecedented and massive; everyone else seems to be playing by different rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary

Back in 2010 alone, there were over 70 armed conflicts happening across the globe. While every single one of those situations was unique, they all shared a fundamental commonality—at some point, one side simply wanted more boots on the ground. When commanders start building up their ranks, they often lean heavily on professional soldiers who actually know how to fight—and who receive substantial paychecks for doing so, according to Business Insider.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mercenaries-warfare-2013-04

gentlerider7 said:Right now, there just isn't a better alternative out there than NATO and the EU. That doesn't mean something else won't crawl out of the woodwork eventually, though.

Well, look at this: Boris Johnson is floating a new idea
(Corriere della Sera is the source here—it's originally in Italian, though various outlets are picking it up in English, including the Ukrainians themselves):

Boris Johnson suggests to create an alternative European union against russia
This model will include the UK as a leader and countries such as Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania
https://mind.ua/en/news/20242107-bor...against-russia