Sanctions on Russia

bluebison8 said:I have these ideas because I've been following politics since the 2001 era of US imperialism under Bush. Since then, I've learned exactly what they've been up to. For anyone who knows how to read and comprehend, it's all quite clear.

As for your take on Russia, you clearly understand nothing about Real Politics. I assume your only source of information is Index.

Brenda Murphy3 said:Since you love acting like such a know-it-all without actually saying one single concrete thing, why don't you try again? Be a little more specific if you're even capable of it (which, at the end of the day, is just your own opinion😁)..so:
Number one—do you even know what the word "vazal" actually means? You honestly think Norway is some American "vazal"? Or Iceland? Or Spain? On what exact grounds? A vazal basically just does whatever their superior tells them to do, so please, explain to me exactly what Norway did against its own will? Can you name even one single instance where the people in Norway were totally against something, but it was pushed through anyway just because the USA said so? The same goes for Spain, for example.

bluebison8 said:Let me assist you, since you clearly lack understanding.

Every one of those nations has supported US imperialism since World War II. I could almost understand it back when the USSR existed and they were terrified of being nearby, but I haven't seen a single boycott of the USA for anything that has happened since 1990.

What the USA did in Iraq (and Afghanistan) isn't much different from what Russia is doing now in Ukraine. And yet, nobody boycotted the USA.

bluebison8 said:Let me assist you, since you clearly lack understanding.

Every one of those nations has supported US imperialism since World War II. I could almost understand it back when the USSR existed and they were terrified of being nearby, but I haven't seen a single boycott of the USA for anything that has happened since 1990.

What the USA did in Iraq (and Afghanistan) isn't much different from what Russia is doing now in Ukraine. And yet, nobody boycotted the USA.

Brenda Murphy3 said:And once again, you totally dodged the question and ignored the points you made yourself...😁 fascinating...

You’re claiming these listed countries are just vassals of the US... those are your own damn words, right? So I’m asking you: what does that even mean? Give me one single, solitary example of Norway acting as a vassal to the US. Not two, not five, not ten—just one. You’ve gone three posts without being able to answer, instead just spewing nonsense that nobody asked for and that has zero to do with your provocative claims.
So, go ahead, feel free to try again...

And we don't even need to get into deconstructing your brain-dead theory that Russia can only have a government that robs its own people, or this whole "vassal of the USA" nonsense... that is some next-level delusional stuff right there...😁

(And honestly, Iraq and Afghanistan are vastly, vastly different stories than Ukraine... but let's not go there yet... I mean, we can, but first, why don't you clarify your original claims if you're actually capable of it? Though, based on your answers so far—you probably aren't.)

swiftjackal11 said:The US doesn't attack democratic nations. It's always some dictator over there oppressing their own people. Honestly, they should have stepped in sooner.

bluebison8 said:I have said everything I need to say; you simply refuse to understand.

brightheron64 said:Poniatowski, Shah, the Pahlavi regime... who was it that installed them all... St. Peter?

I don't want to exaggerate too much here, but here are just a handful of actual democracies that were dismantled (following completely legitimate elections!) by the US side:

The 7 Governments the U.S. Has Overthrown
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20...as-overthrown/

And don't even get me started on those "preventative" interventions meant to interfere with "free and democratic elections" in various other countries...

Brenda Murphy3 said:You haven't said a damn thing... because your arguments are basically meaningless noise coming from someone who clearly hasn't done their homework.

I could rattle off at least five solid examples right now explaining why this version of Russia and its leadership is nothing more than an incompetent, corrupt, kleptocratic mob that's busy robbing its own people blind...

But you? You can't even string together one coherent sentence to back up your claims... because they're fundamentally nonsensical. Don't sweat it though, you aren't the first or the last person to spout rhetoric that sounds like some drunk guy rambling outside a local dive bar, only able to come up with "you just don't understand" when they run out of steam.😁 😒

But whatever... nothing unexpected coming from someone who writes stuff like that...🤣

brightheron64 said:Poniatowski, Shah, the Pahlavi regime... who was it that installed them all... St. Peter?

I don't want to exaggerate too much here, but here are just a handful of actual democracies that were dismantled (following completely legitimate elections!) by the US side:

The 7 Governments the U.S. Has Overthrown
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20...as-overthrown/

And don't even get me started on those "preventative" interventions meant to interfere with "free and democratic elections" in various other countries...

bluebison8 said:I agree with you that Russia isn't a perfect nation and their people certainly don't live as well as they could, but things would be significantly worse if they were merely another US vassal. They wouldn't be living like Scandinavia; they'd be living like Ukraine.
And once you stop acting as a US vassal, we see what happens—just look at Libya, Iraq, Iran, and so on.
Or take that whole cluster of South American countries where governments were toppled and lives were ruined simply because someone didn't fit the desired mold.

bluebison8 said:I agree with you that Russia isn't a perfect nation and their people certainly don't live as well as they could, but things would be significantly worse if they were merely another US vassal. They wouldn't be living like Scandinavia; they'd be living like Ukraine.
And once you stop acting as a US vassal, we see what happens—just look at Libya, Iraq, Iran, and so on.
Or take that whole cluster of South American countries where governments were toppled and lives were ruined simply because someone didn't fit the desired mold.

Brenda Murphy3 said:"After what they're calling 'completely legitimate elections'..."🤣

Look, I’m not out here trying to play defense for the USA. God knows they’ve pulled plenty of amoral stunts and gone on all sorts of messy interventions over the years. But seriously, maybe do a little homework before dropping statements like that? No, really—half the stuff you just listed doesn't even qualify as "totally legitimate elections." It’s the same deal as what we're seeing today in places like Russia or Mexico. You can't just throw those terms around without actually knowing what you're talking about.

Look, this thread is specifically about Russia and the sanctions being slapped on them. If you want to go on some long-winded rant about US hypocrisy, then by all means, be my guest... but don't drag that into this specific discussion just to try and justify what the Russians are doing. It’s a total reach. Besides, let's be real—the US position and Putin's Russia aren't even playing the same game. You can't just lump them together like they're two sides of the same coin; it's not even close.

brightheron64 said:So, did Al Gore and Donald Trump actually lose legitimate elections...? Were you ever at one of those "free rallies" back in the day in America? Out of twelve verified party comrades, go ahead and pick out twelve of them!

Now, come on, try and find me one single shred of evidence to disprove that... 🙏

So please, don't lecture me about being some holy "beacon of democracy" watching over the sanctity of democratic values...

And yeah, what on earth does my comment have to do with the Russians? 🤔

Brenda Murphy3 said:Sorry, but you're back at it again with the nonsense. First off—for a country like Russia, there aren't just two options: either you've got a corrupt, looting mob running the show, or you're a total vassal to the USA. Where are you even pulling these ideas from?
(And let’s be real, in some sci-fi scenario where you actually manage to install a US/Western government in Russia—it’s almost a given that Russians would live better than they do now, but that's just pure fantasy...)

Second point—you were the one who brought up Norway, Iceland, and a few other places as being vassals to the USA. And you still haven't explained why you think they're "vassals"... or what kind of twisted logic you're using to claim that...
Now you're pivoting to talking about completely different countries, which would require considering a million different variables before we could even start a real conversation about them... feel free to start a whole new thread if you want to go down that rabbit hole...

bluebison8 said:You are the only one persistently questioning nonsense. I have already explained the double standards at play, which exist because nobody dares to say a word against the USA.

As for the idea that Russians would live better by submitting to the West, that is your opinion. Mine is that they would end up more like Ukraine. Given that they are a proud people with nuclear weapons, expecting them to submit is a fool's errand.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself: all Western nations quietly do whatever the USA wants, while the USA regularly uses military force to bully the entire world.

My stance is that the European Union should break away from the USA, remain neutral in the Russia-China-US conflict, and prioritize its own interests above all else.

gentlerider7 said:Turns out, if you want to know why Ukraine is broke, don't look at Russia—look at the West.

brightheron64 said:Poniatowski, Shah, the Pahlavi regime... who was it that installed them all... St. Peter?

I don't want to exaggerate too much here, but here are just a handful of actual democracies that were dismantled (following completely legitimate elections!) by the US side:

The 7 Governments the U.S. Has Overthrown
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20...as-overthrown/

And don't even get me started on those "preventative" interventions meant to interfere with "free and democratic elections" in various other countries...

I think this gets right to the heart of why both sides are fighting. On one side, you've got the pro-Russia crowd who thinks Yanukovych (Allende) was actually running a real democracy—basically claiming the whole Euromaidan thing was just a CIA puppet show. Then you have the other side, where Russia sees itself as the force restoring order, aiming to finally chip away at American hegemony in Ukraine.

The whole Euromaidan thing was about what actual democracy looks like—real stuff. Meanwhile, you've got Russia over in Ukraine just trying to tear down the entire nation and wipe out their democratic foundation entirely.

One side sees the other as nothing more than puppets for the US—basically backing the move to oust Yanukovych (Allende) just to install Poroshenko/Zelenskyy (Pinochet)—which, in their eyes, makes this whole war justifiable.

The other side just sees them as cheerleaders for some fascist aggression against a democratic nation.

You can probably guess why society in a place like America is so fractured right now. If you ask me—it’s because we're stuck right in the middle of everything—caught between the East and the West, and drifting from an industrial past into this weird post-industrial present.

bluebison8 said:You are the only one persistently questioning nonsense. I have already explained the double standards at play, which exist because nobody dares to say a word against the USA.

As for the idea that Russians would live better by submitting to the West, that is your opinion. Mine is that they would end up more like Ukraine. Given that they are a proud people with nuclear weapons, expecting them to submit is a fool's errand.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself: all Western nations quietly do whatever the USA wants, while the USA regularly uses military force to bully the entire world.

My stance is that the European Union should break away from the USA, remain neutral in the Russia-China-US conflict, and prioritize its own interests above all else.

brightheron64 said:So, did Al Gore and Donald Trump actually lose legitimate elections...? Were you ever at one of those "free rallies" back in the day in America? Out of twelve verified party comrades, go ahead and pick out twelve of them!

Now, come on, try and find me one single shred of evidence to disprove that... 🙏

So please, don't lecture me about being some holy "beacon of democracy" watching over the sanctity of democratic values...

And yeah, what on earth does my comment have to do with the Russians? 🤔